All you DOOOOM sayers, listen up. (PvP Population)
By
15thBarrier,
Posted on: 2009-01-08 22:02 in Everything about PvP
Cyber- I laughed hard with (not at) your post.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Cyber- I laughed hard with (not at) your post.
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Same
I am a casual PvPer. I PvP maybe twice a week. To me, the biggest impediment to enjoying PvP is the lack of immersion that is brought about by a) No real reason to attack 'villains' other than they play red-side b) Most conversations in PvP zones c) Lack of real rewards d) Many of the recent changes have led to different powersets feeling less diverse, it makes many characters lose their unique flavor.
Of those reasons, if you're like me, you do what you can to minimalize (b) if those conversations also take away from your gaming experience. Whether you dislike trash-talking in general, whether it hurts your feelings, or maybe you just don't like 'villains' and 'heroes' conversing like friends.... you have the tools to change this.
Turn off /broadcast. Turn off enemy messages in local and /tells. Hide from all /tells and/or remove them from your chat window if it's that important to you.
Just because I don't communicate with the 'enemy' doesn't mean I'm going to take away from someone else's gaming experience to suit my selfish needs. You pay your $15, play your way, I'll play mine.
I have a dream that some day, at some point, in some post there will be a player who goes out there and says.
"Yeah I sucked at PvP... I didn't know what I was doing, I tried to impose honor, morals, rules to a system that encourages survival of the fittest. Rather than complaining about being ganked... I joined a SG with an Active PvP interest. Rather than complaining about inspiration use... I started to use them myself"
I have a dream they will say to the masses... "Rather than complaining that my Elec/Kin couldn't kill [X] and was ganked by [Y] I changed my build, play style and even rolled a few new power sets to better round out what I can accomplish in varied PvP situations."
I have a dream they will say to themselves "I recognized that there is no one build that rules them all, there are however some that function better than others in certain situations. I didn't care for trash talking, so I simply turned off broadcast/local chat. I recognize that PvE is a static difficultly ranging from heroic to invincible, where in PvP you have to compete with those who put in the time and effort and effectively raise the difficulty bar. I expect to get out of PvP what I put into it. I expect my ability and success to be reflective of the time invested into the system."
I really don't get the no rewards so it is an impediment to PvPing. If you like to PvP then the reward is PvPing. Those of us that like to PvP do it because we like to do it not because it gets us anything. The reason that there are low numbers in the zones/arenas is because a ton of people quit with the release of i13 and no matter what you do to the game, the people that don't like to PvP will not magically start liking PvP. They will always have some reason(excuse) as to why they don't/won't do it.
They complained that purpled FOTM toons ruled the roost, so I13 was made to even out the playing field... are the people who complained about it now in the zones or arena PvPing, nope.
They complained that they didnt want to "ruin" their PvE build to make a PvP build. Tada dual builds, now you can have a PVP and a PvE build but are they taking advantage and PvPing, again nope, and what some of these people are doing instead is making a PvE team build and PvE solo build......
So now the new excuse is there are no rewards for PvPing so when and if they put in some real rewards for PvPing there will be a new excuse as to why people don't PvP.
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
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Agreed. "LRN2PVP" is fun, when used against somebody who has been there for awhile, but like I said, I pretended to be a complete n00b to PvP, just to see how I was treated....and I must say, my findings were exactly as I expected them to be. If I were to be completely new, and try it out for the first time, I would not have stuck around for half as long as I did, and I would not be returning.
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In response to the bolded section...you were not pretending.
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/em walks away wistling 
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I really don't get the no rewards so it is an impediment to PvPing. If you like to PvP then the reward is PvPing.
..........
So now the new excuse is there are no rewards for PvPing so when and if they put in some real rewards for PvPing there will be a new excuse as to why people don't PvP.
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I do not think it is so strange to want there to be rewards for PvP accomplishments. And for the record, that's been one of the reasons I've not participated more in PvP, lack of definable rewards.
Let me be clear: I do not want everything handed down on a golden platter. I want challenge, I want the better rewards to not only be difficult to achieve but also to be achievable solely with more participation than 2 people. If you want an example, look at the (admittedly broken) system of Relics in DAoC. There you have lots of people working together for a specific goal, a goal that grants the winners definite bonuses. That system would not work in City of Heroes for balance purposes - I'm only using it as an example to show that teamwork on a massive scale should be rewarded as such.
I don't want the world, I just want realistic rewards through PvP, the great thing about CoH is that the rewards could be extremely varied. Temp powers, costume options, merit rewards, recipes, enhancements, so on and so forth. And by 'realistic', I mean that the best options would cost more than one could likely make in a week of PvPing, assuming those options are balanced for such.
I don't think it's unrealistic to want rewards for PvPing, not when the current and past systems were not reward enough on their own for many.
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I really don't get the no rewards so it is an impediment to PvPing. If you like to PvP then the reward is PvPing. Those of us that like to PvP do it because we like to do it not because it gets us anything. The reason that there are low numbers in the zones/arenas is because a ton of people quit with the release of i13 and no matter what you do to the game, the people that don't like to PvP will not magically start liking PvP. They will always have some reason(excuse) as to why they don't/won't do it.
They complained that purpled FOTM toons ruled the roost, so I13 was made to even out the playing field... are the people who complained about it now in the zones or arena PvPing, nope.
They complained that they didnt want to "ruin" their PvE build to make a PvP build. Tada dual builds, now you can have a PVP and a PvE build but are they taking advantage and PvPing, again nope, and what some of these people are doing instead is making a PvE team build and PvE solo build......
So now the new excuse is there are no rewards for PvPing so when and if they put in some real rewards for PvPing there will be a new excuse as to why people don't PvP.
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I used to really enjoy PvP. I have to admit, when IOs were released into the game, I was a bit distraught. I felt that IOs took your characters and their weaknesses, and built them outside of the intended mechanics. It covered holes in the builds that IMO were *supposed* to be there. But instead, it took builds that were extremely difficult to beat, and made them stronger.
Meh, ok...whatever. No big deal. At that point, I felt I had already proved myself anyway, so I decided to retire from PvP and let the new generation of PvPers enjoy the new PvP that was brought with IOs.
I would occasionally return to RV from time to time just to see how things have changed, get a few kills, make sure I have not lost my touch, then leave again for a couple more months. But I was still not a big IO fan.
Was only until recently that my blood boiled for more PvP action. I hit RV once again with my Night Widow, speced for Mêlée PvP, I did well under the circumstance, but quickly found that the new Travel Power Suppression was just plain stupid. I hated it. PvP in this game had become a complete joke. This new style of PvP forced on us by the Devs is not even close to being anything worthy of a good time. They nerfed everybody in PvP to accommodate any new players that wants to come into the zones. It makes zero sense to me. If they wanted to fix PvP, then they should have boosted the lacking power sets, and left alone the power sets doing well. But no, as always, they nerf everything and everyone. So then, even though I came here to get back into PvP, that quickly changed my mind. The new system is horrible.
Then I see this....
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Arena
Updated the Arena UI: dropped "Tactical Start" and "No Stealth" added "No Travel Suppression" and "No Diminishing Returns
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Wow.... That is a shock. So after seeing that, I decided to remake my Ice/Elec Blaster and hit Arena. To hell with Zone PvP. As long as these nerfs to zone PvP are around, I will seldom go there. So now, with the new changes coming, I plan to take an Ice/Elec Blaster to Arena and see if I can still make Ice/Elec work as I did once before. I understand that Ice has been nerfed in PvP and is not what it used to be, but as most people who knew me back in the day would tell you, I never was a big fan of FoTMs.
If it were up to me, zone PvP would go back to the Arena days, loose travel suppression altogether, period. It is plain stupid.
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Agreed. "LRN2PVP" is fun, when used against somebody who has been there for awhile, but like I said, I pretended to be a complete n00b to PvP, just to see how I was treated....and I must say, my findings were exactly as I expected them to be. If I were to be completely new, and try it out for the first time, I would not have stuck around for half as long as I did, and I would not be returning.
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In response to the bolded section...you were not pretending.
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/em walks away wistling
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Is that anything like whistling?
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
<QR>
I have to laugh at the IOs argument, some of the most ridiculously fun times I've had were in WB on mid-30s toons barely with SOs (and some empty slots) as I'm generally lazy about slotting pre-50s toons. Test ladder, sure my blaster and stormie where purpled out like everyone else, but on live, lolz.
I too was a n00b (some would say I still am, but there's probably only 10 or so left that can say in an not cause me to laugh at them). But then (slowly) I learned to play. Trash talking is still annoying and of course I mean sore loser whining. Which Brings me to my top 10 sore loser whines in zone PvP:
1. Holy crap I got killed by Slax
2. Took you long enough
3. Pop moar pillz
4. teaming up to gank me eh?
5. WE HAD A DUEL YOU INTERUPTED
6. I'm just farming pillboxes, leave me alone
7. YOu are a jerk attacking without warning
8. You INNNNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRUPPPPPPTED, you $@*^$@^&^
9. How many buffs do you need? (half the time the toon in question had none)
10. Stand still so I can hit you.
Generally I did not reply.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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Agreed. "LRN2PVP" is fun, when used against somebody who has been there for awhile, but like I said, I pretended to be a complete n00b to PvP, just to see how I was treated....and I must say, my findings were exactly as I expected them to be. If I were to be completely new, and try it out for the first time, I would not have stuck around for half as long as I did, and I would not be returning.
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In response to the bolded section...you were not pretending.
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/em walks away wistling
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Is that anything like whistling?
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I guess it is too late to go back and edit it now...you done called me out on it, heh.
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welcome to pvp.
doom.
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people hate to lose. and it will happen alot in pvp. end of story.
You know pvp is borked when you have to get all Aquaman like to kill folks.
/e Trows Sharks!
>.<
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
play a lifeguard then.
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Please post in the i13 PvP feedback section (under Developers Corner). Ranting here will change nothing. Maybe the Devs will listen to a PvP newbie like yourself (by newbie I mean someone who enters Warburg solo and expects not to get ganked...and for there to be no trash talking).
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Hey, why should I? It is not me who is crying all over the forums because PvP in this game has died. I could care less. It's your problem, not mine. I just figured I would be nice enough to show you *why* your precious PvP is dying.
But hey, by all means, keep doing what you are doing....I will just sit back and sip soda while you continue to chase off new players. /e shrugs.
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Those who want to pvp who are complaining about the pvp changes, are complaining because the changes have made pvp into some kind of lame [censored] new game where powers don't work the same, at's dont work the same, the imbalances are FAR bigger than they were before, and the sluggish new style blows. And these changes were made to cater to people like you who really don't have any interest in pvp'ing, and who don't have a thick enough skin to pvp to begin with. I'm not a trash talker, but I do like competition, and I've never taken part in any competitive situation that didn't have trash talkers. Good luck removing trash talking from any competitive situation where you have more than one or two people. And 'ganking' will always exist as well because better players will always beat the crap out of bad ones. If you want to get good, you have to be willing to take the beatings to get better, that's how it works in any competitive endeavor. Your problem with pvp isn't what the system or game mechanics are, your problem is with what competition is and what it makes you face. My problem with the new pvp is the broken game mechanics the devs have created where TANKS are running around with RANGED SHARK ATTACKS because squishes can take more of a beating than they can, lol.
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Yeah, thats pretty **'d up since tanks dont have those powers 
I think what you tested was not the best indicator of PVP in this game. IMHO zone PVP is not the best place to start learning, however the game points players to zones first. Zones are a bit more chaotic and while you perceived the players there to be picking on you it could of been that you were the only player not on their team. WB to me is a stalker haven usually set to pray on alot of the soloist and nuke seekers that go there (at least on Virtue.) There use to be alot of dynamic PVP happening there, however with RV opening players can get full benefits of their builds and WB became the ignored middle child.
The best place I can suggest for any new player to Learn2pvp is take a few friends and head to arena. Also by asking someone in your VG or coalition that has some type of experience and asking them to show you the dynamics can help.
If someone feels they should start with zones then SC or RV would be the best places to begin because you can work with your side. Trying doing a /search or /whoall and asking to join a team. Let the team know you are new and that you are still trying to get the hang of it. PVPers are a bit of a cliq due to several reasons, however it's not impossible to get involved with a good group of people--just ask what are some good PVP VGs or well known PVPers on your server.
On a side note saying that PVPers deserve the effective "nerfs" that came with i13 is very narrow minded. The players that were run off are not the ganking, bad mouthers that you are still facing. They were generally the test arena folk that contributed heavily to promoting PVP and were alienated.
The cries about DR, movement suppression, mezz changes, and heal decay are because they were forced onto players even dispite requests that they would not be implemented. They were not in the best interest of new or current players because they create a seperate game that new players have to learn how to use their powers all over again. Mezzes all last 2-4 secs, resistances don't resist (unless you were gifted with universal resistances in which case you are now nearly capped with just a patron shield), attacking/being attacked causing you to all but stand still afterward even if you are trying to escape a gank squad.
So with that said:
To the OP I feel the pain of those who have experienced what you tested and would hope that PVPers would be more open to new players.
To the new PVPer, please don't allow the bad attitude of a few have you feel that the whole community is exactly the same. Make friends, ask questions, and realize that alot of the community is bitter to the recent changes that have made the learning curve even more steep.
To The OP: Truthfully, if a kin walked anywhere within range, i WOULD chase him and kill him. Simply becuase of the fact that a kin can drastically kill certain builds with transference, esspecially end heavy builds, like i play. If you've PvPed enough, you will see people dont intentionally "Gank" there are people that say, " Oh Low HP Corruptor/Defender, kill kill kill" Its called KS, also, look at what AT's and builds were fighting out there, if im in a zone, and im fighting a tank with a brute and its been goin nowhere, imma turn around and pound something else. To Assume that they were specifically targetting you to gank you repeatedly is a little paranoid. Esspecially if you were dieing easy, you're viewed as "Easy Rep" its like trying to resist the dollar some1 dropped on the sidewalk.
And as for the typical "Zomg PvP Trash talkers are is killed mah pvp i kant solo zomg" You do realize that the pvp trash talkers very rarely post on these boards? The PvPers that post constructively on the boards are much more likely to be laughin at you in vent/TS/XF then wastin time typing.
As stated in previous posts, its a zone, zones are chaotic, zones are unpredictable, many PvE'rs are in there simply to run mishs and catch that occasional "Rush" from pvp and start fightin 1 person, 1 person does a search and omg, someone is in a zone, they come and the cycle repeats. To assume every1 in the pvp zone is a hard core pvper there to ruin your experience is almost undoubtly the most untrue statement ive ever heard said so much.
Ive PvPed with almost everyset and every AT except a WS, Theyre all viable, in their own enviroment. To walk into a zone and expect an Ele/Kin to even be able to walk out of the Blue line solo is kind of nuts in its own mind.
If your lookin to learn to pvp, start in BB, with the meteors and the relative low population, you should be able to have a taste of pvp, not high quality or quantity, but, its the first zone for a reason.
/signed both Yallander's and ElvenBlood's posts.
After i13 pvp sucks, wont play it and wont have anything to do with it. If u want to know what else i think check the sig.
This may not help much but I had to completely change my build several times when i13 came out.
I messed with powers I wouldnt have dreamed of touching prior to the release and I found a balance.
I think most toons can work well (all mine adapted).
It just takes time and practice to come around to the changes.
To be honest I have played so much under i 13 I would no longer welcome a roll back.
My pet hate is people that are killed and then complain. I dont gank players as a rule but if they bleet after a fair kill its a red flag to a bull.
And when I get killed even if its a team gank and im not happy about it, I always try and send a comment like "nice" or "good ambush" I find this goes a long way to stopping trash talk.
Most people dont trash talk some one they killed who lets them know it was a good fight and it works both ways.
A simple "good fight" or "great defence" to a defeated foe usually works wonders.
I have used this several times and most trash talkers have changed their perception on the spot.
Hope this helps
"if you ever get offered a burger from a clown and its not ronald mcdonald don�t eat it, I learnt that the hard way"
It's not about adapting, I like that more of my toons would be good now. But it's soooooooooooooooooooooooo slow and DR, mez and the resists are retarded. Same for some of the power nerfs.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
they should give us control of the weak stuff in players missions. make them earn that exp. we get satified. they get a challenge and still win most of the time.
Seems to me PvP is still pretty popular....u just have to go to Freedom. lol
I do agree with one thing here. The attitudes and crap talk by SOME pvp'ers will turn a noob's tail for the door quick! I have had nights where everyone is cool in the zones, and it can be alot of fun! You can ask ppl for 1 vs 1's to try your build out and what not and everyone is happy! Other times however, one or two or more ppl are mad cause they probably lost to a said noob, and all they do after is insult anyone who enters their target window. That will make alot of people leave the zone and never come back for sure. At first I got sucked into their talk and got myself pretty mad bantering with those fools, but I learned the best way is to simply turn off the chat of the opposing faction, and suddenly, all is well!
So my advise, turn off the opposing factions chat when you are in the zones, let them talk crap all day, and you will be none the wiser!!
Thank You, have a nice day!
P.S. It has been my experience that the majority of the trash talkers are kids, so remember that and laugh to yourself next time. You can always put them on your ignore list too, if you don't want to turn the chat right off!
"You can ask ppl for 1 vs 1's to try your build out and what not and everyone is happy! "
that's the arena
zones are for not noobs like you with ya fight club rules.
people like you got pvp slaugthered with your constant complaining about how zone pvp is tuff and collecting badges is tuff nerf them pvpers!
so anyway yeah have fun with ya cat girl cosplay in sirens call cause even that place is dead now
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Please post in the i13 PvP feedback section (under Developers Corner). Ranting here will change nothing. Maybe the Devs will listen to a PvP newbie like yourself (by newbie I mean someone who enters Warburg solo and expects not to get ganked...and for there to be no trash talking).
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Hey, why should I? It is not me who is crying all over the forums because PvP in this game has died. I could care less. It's your problem, not mine. I just figured I would be nice enough to show you *why* your precious PvP is dying.
But hey, by all means, keep doing what you are doing....I will just sit back and sip soda while you continue to chase off new players. /e shrugs.
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Those who want to pvp who are complaining about the pvp changes, are complaining because the changes have made pvp into some kind of lame [censored] new game where powers don't work the same, at's dont work the same, the imbalances are FAR bigger than they were before, and the sluggish new style blows. And these changes were made to cater to people like you who really don't have any interest in pvp'ing, and who don't have a thick enough skin to pvp to begin with. I'm not a trash talker, but I do like competition, and I've never taken part in any competitive situation that didn't have trash talkers. Good luck removing trash talking from any competitive situation where you have more than one or two people. And 'ganking' will always exist as well because better players will always beat the crap out of bad ones. If you want to get good, you have to be willing to take the beatings to get better, that's how it works in any competitive endeavor. Your problem with pvp isn't what the system or game mechanics are, your problem is with what competition is and what it makes you face. My problem with the new pvp is the broken game mechanics the devs have created where tanks are running around with ranged shark attacks because squishes can take more of a beating than they can, lol.