Discussion: Castle Talks on w00t Studios Podcast!
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2008-10-07 17:18 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Hey folks.. Silly thought.. so a Scrapper takes Weapon Mastery and uses the Targeting Drone... but they have also been around long enough to get the Combat Pet Vet rewards... and took the Shield or Power Drone powers?
Now has two disco balls dancing around!
*grin*
[ QUOTE ]
2) I misspoke re: Weapon Mastery getting Focused Accuracy. It's Targeting Drone. Functionally, it's *identical* to FA, it just has the visuals and display name of TD.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope this also means the To Hit buff on FA is being adjusted. It would be pretty silly if the To Hit buff on the Scrapper APP Targeting Drone ended up higher than the Blaster Secondary Targeting Drone. It's already pretty silly that FA provides a better buff than the comparable Secondary power. At APP levels FA's greater End cost isn't that hard to mitigate. See: toggle Instant Healing and the reason it was changed to a click power.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5. No more powers that detoggle a foe in PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
There goes my entire PvP strategy. Guess it's time to be another clone and roll a fire/energy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or...you could, you know, wait to hear the other changes. Maybe most ats will be perfectly viable in pvp after this. 
SadysCHICK ALL the Badges! (I can get. 1396)
Full image by David Nakayama
Arc ID 1435: Performing without Annette
Arc ID 7206: Sadystic Tendencies
Arc ID 3864: The Chronicles of (In)FERNIA!
Nice, I can't wait until I get into it.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) I misspoke re: Weapon Mastery getting Focused Accuracy. It's Targeting Drone. Functionally, it's *identical* to FA, it just has the visuals and display name of TD.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope this also means the To Hit buff on FA is being adjusted. It would be pretty silly if the To Hit buff on the Scrapper APP Targeting Drone ended up higher than the Blaster Secondary Targeting Drone. It's already pretty silly that FA provides a better buff than the comparable Secondary power. At APP levels FA's greater End cost isn't that hard to mitigate. See: toggle Instant Healing and the reason it was changed to a click power.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those powers use the Melee_Buff_ToHit modifier, and Scrappers have a higher modifier than Blasters (0.1 compared to 0.075), so given identical powers, the Scrapper version will give a larger buff than the Stalker version.
FA does give a stronger ToHit buff though (scale 2.0 compared to scale 1.85), but pays for this by having 3.75 times higher End Cost.
While it could be debated if that bonus (higher scale value) is appropriate, I do not think that it should be expected that Targeting Drone in a Scrapper Epic would not give a higher effective ToHit buff than Targeting Drone in a Blaster secondary.
The attribute modifiers state that Scrappers are *supposed* to be better at (self) ToHit buffs than Blasters.
This can also be seen in other situations.
Scrapper/Invulnerability/Temporary Invulnerability and Defender/Power Mastery/Temporary Invulnerability are both scale 3.0, but since these powers use the Melee_Res_Dmg modifier, for which Defenders have a value of 0.1 and Scrappers 0.075, the Defender version gives a higher effective Resistance, 30% compared to 22.5%.
It's just the way things work.
does anyone else have a link to download this NONE of the links are working for me
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm honestly surprised Exploding Shuriken didn't get dropped. 19 end, 32 second recharge and all. I wouldn't think many people would take that.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a Tier issue. FA is Tier 1, Web Grenades and Caltrops are Tier 1. Under the Dev's current plan, one of those two powers had to go. With Targetting Drone (FA) a given, which of those two powers Webnades or 'trops do you want to lose? That is the question Castle is faced with.
Of course if he were to see and read my previous post, he might decide we could have it all!
[/ QUOTE ]
I saw that, and I'm all for it. It would be the least they could do since Scrappers _still_ only have 3 APPs to choose from.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
Regarding Web Grenade going away...
[ QUOTE ]
The shruiken should go.
Unless Castle wants to tell us that more folks choose the shruiken then the web grenade.
[/ QUOTE ]
I bet this was exactly the reason that web grenade was picked to leave. I expect that a lot more people (in the game as a whole) choose a ranged damage power over a ranged immobilize/slow/-fly.
I am in no way saying that shuriken is better than web 'nade. I would pick web grenade. I just bet more people pick shuriken because it seems cooler to stab people at range rather than throwing glue at them.
Of course I also think the vast majority of people don't ever use the real numbers feature or read the forums or use build planners or PvP. So lots of people not picking a not-flashy power matches my expectations.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) I misspoke re: Weapon Mastery getting Focused Accuracy. It's Targeting Drone. Functionally, it's *identical* to FA, it just has the visuals and display name of TD.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope this also means the To Hit buff on FA is being adjusted. It would be pretty silly if the To Hit buff on the Scrapper APP Targeting Drone ended up higher than the Blaster Secondary Targeting Drone. It's already pretty silly that FA provides a better buff than the comparable Secondary power. At APP levels FA's greater End cost isn't that hard to mitigate. See: toggle Instant Healing and the reason it was changed to a click power.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those powers use the Melee_Buff_ToHit modifier, and Scrappers have a higher modifier than Blasters (0.1 compared to 0.075), so given identical powers, the Scrapper version will give a larger buff than the Stalker version.
FA does give a stronger ToHit buff though (scale 2.0 compared to scale 1.85), but pays for this by having 3.75 times higher End Cost.
While it could be debated if that bonus (higher scale value) is appropriate, I do not think that it should be expected that Targeting Drone in a Scrapper Epic would not give a higher effective ToHit buff than Targeting Drone in a Blaster secondary.
The attribute modifiers state that Scrappers are *supposed* to be better at (self) ToHit buffs than Blasters.
This can also be seen in other situations.
Scrapper/Invulnerability/Temporary Invulnerability and Defender/Power Mastery/Temporary Invulnerability are both scale 3.0, but since these powers use the Melee_Res_Dmg modifier, for which Defenders have a value of 0.1 and Scrappers 0.075, the Defender version gives a higher effective Resistance, 30% compared to 22.5%.
It's just the way things work.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm aware of why an otherwise identical power on two different ATs can perform differently. Nevertheless, the result can still be silly even if its consistent with how the game engine works. Ask a Storm/ Defender about /Storm Controllers sometime.
FA is a separate case though, since it was invented specifically for the APPs and its buff value was apparently pulled out of thin air. There was little reason to set the base value of the power as high as it was to begin with.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
No matter what they change, or even if they changed nothing, they'd still piss off a lot of people. The only difference is who would be posting the angry letters.
You're right, they shouldn't honor complaints based on popularity. They should honor complaints on their merits.
The fact in this case is that Web Grenade is probably the best power in Weapons Mastery. The only other power that could even compete is Caltrops, and of the two Web Grenade is much more useful. Those are the two powers that will let a Scrapper do something he couldn't ordinarily do. The two attacks are at best conveniences and at worst little more than toys. Scrappers already have plenty of attacks and don't really need more.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope this also means the To Hit buff on FA is being adjusted. It would be pretty silly if the To Hit buff on the Scrapper APP Targeting Drone ended up higher than the Blaster Secondary Targeting Drone. It's already pretty silly that FA provides a better buff than the comparable Secondary power. At APP levels FA's greater End cost isn't that hard to mitigate. See: toggle Instant Healing and the reason it was changed to a click power.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those powers use the Melee_Buff_ToHit modifier, and Scrappers have a higher modifier than Blasters (0.1 compared to 0.075), so given identical powers, the Scrapper version will give a larger buff than the Stalker version.
FA does give a stronger ToHit buff though (scale 2.0 compared to scale 1.85), but pays for this by having 3.75 times higher End Cost.
While it could be debated if that bonus (higher scale value) is appropriate, I do not think that it should be expected that Targeting Drone in a Scrapper Epic would not give a higher effective ToHit buff than Targeting Drone in a Blaster secondary.
The attribute modifiers state that Scrappers are *supposed* to be better at (self) ToHit buffs than Blasters.
This can also be seen in other situations.
Scrapper/Invulnerability/Temporary Invulnerability and Defender/Power Mastery/Temporary Invulnerability are both scale 3.0, but since these powers use the Melee_Res_Dmg modifier, for which Defenders have a value of 0.1 and Scrappers 0.075, the Defender version gives a higher effective Resistance, 30% compared to 22.5%.
It's just the way things work.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm aware of why an otherwise identical power on two different ATs can perform differently. Nevertheless, the result can still be silly even if its consistent with how the game engine works. Ask a Storm/ Defender about /Storm Controllers sometime.
FA is a separate case though, since it was invented specifically for the APPs and its buff value was apparently pulled out of thin air. There was little reason to set the base value of the power as high as it was to begin with.
[/ QUOTE ]
As I said, it could be debated if FA should get the higher scale value, but that's different from saying that a Scrapper Targeting Drone should not give a higher ToHit buff than a Blaster Targeting Drone.
I see no specific reason for why it shouldn't.
[ QUOTE ]
welcome to the dominator dilemma caused by the nerf of roots.
want to drop flying targets? NOPE....
I laugh at those said that it wasn't a big deal 
[/ QUOTE ]
While their defenses are suppressed, TP Foe the hovering mezzed to you.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[ QUOTE ]
No matter what they change, or even if they changed nothing, they'd still piss off a lot of people. The only difference is who would be posting the angry letters.
You're right, they shouldn't honor complaints based on popularity. They should honor complaints on their merits.
The fact in this case is that Web Grenade is probably the best power in Weapons Mastery. The only other power that could even compete is Caltrops, and of the two Web Grenade is much more useful. Those are the two powers that will let a Scrapper do something he couldn't ordinarily do. The two attacks are at best conveniences and at worst little more than toys. Scrappers already have plenty of attacks and don't really need more.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. It's hard to believe that datamining shows that Web Grenade is a little-used Scrapper epic power.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Um i thought it was said that if the mezz had -fly you would be falling to the ground. If the mezz didnt have -fly you would be up in the air.
Basically almost everyone has -fly in an immobilize mezz.
It hasn't been long since fly (of various sorts) has had some -fly protection built in. (Hover, Kheld flight, etc.)
[ QUOTE ]
It hasn't been long since fly (of various sorts) has had some -fly protection built in. (Hover, Kheld flight, etc.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I know but reading this thread everyone seemed to think flyer's would never fall to the ground if they got mezzed. Just pointed out how they could.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm certain a complete list of the changes will be up here on the forums within an hour of Beta starting (soon!(tm)) and I'm looking forward to the feedback (positive AND negative) at that time.
[/ QUOTE ]
^^ Waiting for this!!
[ QUOTE ]
Hey folks.. Silly thought.. so a Scrapper takes Weapon Mastery and uses the Targeting Drone... but they have also been around long enough to get the Combat Pet Vet rewards... and took the Shield or Power Drone powers?
Now has two disco balls dancing around!
*grin*
[/ QUOTE ]
That's nothing compared to a Grav/Elec Dom with Singy, Voltaic Sentinel and a vet wisp.
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey folks.. Silly thought.. so a Scrapper takes Weapon Mastery and uses the Targeting Drone... but they have also been around long enough to get the Combat Pet Vet rewards... and took the Shield or Power Drone powers?
Now has two disco balls dancing around!
*grin*
[/ QUOTE ]
That's nothing compared to a Grav/Elec Dom with Singy, Voltaic Sentinel and a vet wisp.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the non combat pet.. just for kicks.
[ QUOTE ]
(QR)
1) Yes, outright changing powers is bad. Unfortunately, it's the only way we *could* proceed that met with the goals we had in mind, the technical limitations presented and the timeframe allowed. I hate "building cottages" but it was the only path in this circumstance.
2) I misspoke re: Weapon Mastery getting Focused Accuracy. It's Targeting Drone. Functionally, it's *identical* to FA, it just has the visuals and display name of TD.
3) Web Grenade is the power that is being replaced in Weapon Mastery.
4) Yes, various PPP's now have access to FA.
I'm certain a complete list of the changes will be up here on the forums within an hour of Beta starting (soon!(tm)) and I'm looking forward to the feedback (positive AND negative) at that time.
[/ QUOTE ]
While it would appear I lucked out on my scrappers, this is still a really bad plan. You guys pushed architect back a couple months to work on custom boss powersets, but seemingly at the sacrifice of player epic/PPP powersets. I was really excited to see you guys caring enough about what we considered a half done feature to push something like architect back. Please consider pushing this back till it's done right too.
You guys have done a great job these past few issues, please don't spoil it here. Make these changes a 5th power, a new power pool, a unified pool that locks things out based on picks like VEATs can, or allow us to keep what we have until a respec. Anything at this point is better than logging in to find powers replaced.
Thanks for letting us know why this decision was made, but please consider this for another priority fix. Reworking epics/PPPs is something I've looked forward to for a long time, but I disagree strongly that this is the way to do it.
[ QUOTE ]
Good catch. You're correct. Also, I double checked Flight and Group Flight -- in all cases the FLY attribute does not suppress, so you stay floating in mid-air.
[/ QUOTE ]
While you are looking at Group Fly could you please do something about the person who has the power flying faster than those who are granted the flight? What's wrong with making everyone fly just a little faster than the one with Group Fly active?
[ QUOTE ]
(QR)
1) Yes, outright changing powers is bad. Unfortunately, it's the only way we *could* proceed that met with the goals we had in mind, the technical limitations presented and the timeframe allowed. I hate "building cottages" but it was the only path in this circumstance.
2) I misspoke re: Weapon Mastery getting Focused Accuracy. It's Targeting Drone. Functionally, it's *identical* to FA, it just has the visuals and display name of TD.
3) Web Grenade is the power that is being replaced in Weapon Mastery.
4) Yes, various PPP's now have access to FA.
I'm certain a complete list of the changes will be up here on the forums within an hour of Beta starting (soon!(tm)) and I'm looking forward to the feedback (positive AND negative) at that time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please don't make it exactly like FA. Please give it the t-drone lower to hit and end costs values.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
Fine!
Let's just add a fifth choice to the pools.
Done.
Can we move on?
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
[ QUOTE ]
3) Web Grenade is the power that is being replaced in Weapon Mastery.
[/ QUOTE ]
wonder how PvP Scrappers feel about this, I've run across several that have Weapons Mastery and particularly had Web Grenade and Caltrops
QR
Well im really really sad that Web Grenade would be gone. I have been waitin for a long time to finally make my shield scrapper and that was one of the most important powers along with caltrops that was goin to be the coup de gras of my attacks.
[ QUOTE ]
5. No more powers that detoggle a foe in PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
There goes my entire PvP strategy. Guess it's time to be another clone and roll a fire/energy.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.