Discussion: Castle Talks on w00t Studios Podcast!
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2008-10-07 17:18 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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What logic is going into changing Hero Epics?
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You mean how like a power like Power Boost was so overwhelmingly unbalanced that if you had to chance to take it, you would, and then no other APP was ever taken for that AT?
We knew at least this one was coming.
There's going to be changes and no amount of screaming will stop it. If you playtest it and post results with recommendations, you may have the opportunity to shape those changes. If you preemptively scream NIMBY, they'll just tune you out.
And you can bet big money they'll give at least one freespec with this. They passed out freespec for far lesser changes.
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I don't even KNOW what AT gets power boost in their epic (I think it's contollers?) - because epics were NOT the issue- the issue was that Patrons SUCK compared to the Epics. So they are going to force changes on to heroes who might not want them or just don't want the changes at all instead of just giving the god damn epics to villians??
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Dude, they'll be buffing the Patron Pools and not by simply nerfing the APPs.
However, there are some powers in the APPs which are so overpowered, that even if City of Villains never existed, they'd have to nerf anyway.
Before you have an aneurysm, why don't you wait until you see what the changes are.
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I'm not seeing nerfing anywhere- I'm seeing "you will lose power "X" to be replaced by a more popular power everyone else has".
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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What logic is going into changing Hero Epics?
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You mean how like a power like Power Boost was so overwhelmingly unbalanced that if you had to chance to take it, you would, and then no other APP was ever taken for that AT?
We knew at least this one was coming.
There's going to be changes and no amount of screaming will stop it. If you playtest it and post results with recommendations, you may have the opportunity to shape those changes. If you preemptively scream NIMBY, they'll just tune you out.
And you can bet big money they'll give at least one freespec with this. They passed out freespec for far lesser changes.
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I don't even KNOW what AT gets power boost in their epic (I think it's contollers?) - because epics were NOT the issue- the issue was that Patrons SUCK compared to the Epics. So they are going to force changes on to heroes who might not want them or just don't want the changes at all instead of just giving the god damn epics to villians??
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Don't sue "the Lord"'s name in vain. It's just tacky and bad form 
For shame on you Work_Ethic 
You just sound like a raving lunatic at this point. A crazy, raving lunatic
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What logic is going into changing Hero Epics?
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You mean how like a power like Power Boost was so overwhelmingly unbalanced that if you had to chance to take it, you would, and then no other APP was ever taken for that AT?
We knew at least this one was coming.
There's going to be changes and no amount of screaming will stop it. If you playtest it and post results with recommendations, you may have the opportunity to shape those changes. If you preemptively scream NIMBY, they'll just tune you out.
And you can bet big money they'll give at least one freespec with this. They passed out freespec for far lesser changes.
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I don't even KNOW what AT gets power boost in their epic (I think it's contollers?) - because epics were NOT the issue- the issue was that Patrons SUCK compared to the Epics. So they are going to force changes on to heroes who might not want them or just don't want the changes at all instead of just giving the god damn epics to villians??
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Don't sue "the Lord"'s name in vain. It's just tacky and bad form.
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LOL- "sue the lords name in vain" gave me a quick "What the hell are you talking about" moment.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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But I'm not having an aneurysm about this.
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Who's having an aneurysm? I'm stating it's a bad idea to put in place a mechanism that changes peoples power choices. There has to be a half dozen ways they can do this and not immediately force an unwanted change. It may take time, but it would be worth it. Based on the tanker taunt change, it appears it's already possible.
Changing numbers is one thing, logging into to find I have focused accuracy two slotted for slow and with two damage procs, *requiring* a respec to fix is just silly. I have damage procs in the other two powers as well. While the thought of FA turning into a self damage power is amusing, I'd really rather keep what I have.
Even if it was a power I took just to get another one, like boxing, wasn't slotted at all, and was replaced with focused accuracy... something many players would drool over, I'd still be against it. I'm against changing characters without the player doing it themselves.
Logging in to find your characters power lineup changed is an ugly solution. It should only be required upon the next respec. I'm not yelling, I'm not screaming. I'm pointing out a bad design decision in the hopes it can be changed before live. There must be a better way than this.
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But I'm not having an aneurysm about this.
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Who's having an aneurysm? I'm stating it's a bad idea to put in place a mechanism that changes peoples power choices. There has to be a half dozen ways they can do this and not immediately force an unwanted change. It may take time, but it would be worth it. Based on the tanker taunt change, it appears it's already possible.
Changing numbers is one thing, logging into to find I have focused accuracy two slotted for slow and with two damage procs, *requiring* a respec to fix is just silly. I have damage procs in the other two powers as well. While the thought of FA turning into a self damage power is amusing, I'd really rather keep what I have.
Even if it was a power I took just to get another one, like boxing, wasn't slotted at all, and was replaced with focused accuracy... something many players would drool over, I'd still be against it. I'm against changing characters without the player doing it themselves.
Logging in to find your characters power lineup changed is an ugly solution. It should only be required upon the next respec. I'm not yelling, I'm not screaming. I'm pointing out a bad design decision in the hopes it can be changed before live. There must be a better way than this.
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Plus on top of all this is the fact that no one wanted or asked for powers to be swapped around to begin with- Villians want Epics. It's just that freaking simple. Some heroes want Patrons (LMAO). Not this mish-mash of crap with swapping a power out that the player picked to be given a power they did not choose in the first place. If I wanted FA on my scrapper I have that option- I do not because I did not want it. Now, it looks like the devs will be makiing the decision for us. What line of thinking propeled this decision? Serioulsy.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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But I'm not having an aneurysm about this.
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Who's having an aneurysm? I'm stating it's a bad idea to put in place a mechanism that changes peoples power choices. There has to be a half dozen ways they can do this and not immediately force an unwanted change. It may take time, but it would be worth it. Based on the tanker taunt change, it appears it's already possible.
Changing numbers is one thing, logging into to find I have focused accuracy two slotted for slow and with two damage procs, *requiring* a respec to fix is just silly. I have damage procs in the other two powers as well. While the thought of FA turning into a self damage power is amusing, I'd really rather keep what I have.
Even if it was a power I took just to get another one, like boxing, wasn't slotted at all, and was replaced with focused accuracy... something many players would drool over, I'd still be against it. I'm against changing characters without the player doing it themselves.
Logging in to find your characters power lineup changed is an ugly solution. It should only be required upon the next respec. I'm not yelling, I'm not screaming. I'm pointing out a bad design decision in the hopes it can be changed before live. There must be a better way than this.
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Plus on top of all this is the fact that no one wanted or asked for powers to be swapped around to begin with- Villians want Epics. It's just that freaking simple. Some heroes want Patrons (LMAO). Not this mish-mash of crap with swapping a power out that the player picked to be given a power they did not choose in the first place. If I wanted FA on my scrapper I have that option- I do not because I did not want it. Now, it looks like the devs will be makiing the decision for us. What line of thinking propeled this decision? Serioulsy.
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Get your facts straight.
Plenty of people have asked for powers they don't have access to.
Plenty of PvPers have complained Power Boost is too powerful.
If you're going to scream NIMBY, your input will be given the regard it's due.
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The Weapons Pool is one of my favorites, I sure hope I don't lose any powers from it due to the addition of Focused Accuracy. It would kinda ruin the gadgety quality of the set. I'm not a fan of FA at all.
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We knew changes to the epic power pools on both heroes and villains we coming. As others have said, villains were too weak and heroes too powerful. I don't think these could be fixed just by changing numbers. Some of the powers are going to change and I believe it will make the game better. Stop over reacting now and lets see what the changes are. You might have to make some changes to your character, but life will go on and overall it will probably be an improvement to the game. Both PvE and PvP.
Let's fix a few things here.
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Plus on top of all this is the fact that no one wanted or asked for powers to be swapped around to begin with
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Somewhat true. The big issue here is that powers, according to castle, will be swapped when you log in, whether you'd have chosen them or not. Stalker snipe in your concept? Well, very few people use it. It's now Caltrops of Mu. Enjoy!
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SOME- Villians want patronless Epics as a choice besides patrons.
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... since not everyone's character would tie their destiny to one of the four Patrons, or Project DESTINY.
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It's just that freaking simple.
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Less so than you make out, but...
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Some heroes want Patrons (LMAO).
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"LMAO" if you want. It's an arc and a concept that fits some hero concepts JUST as much as NOT having one fits ssome villain concepts. It's a choice that's not available (respectively) either side right now. Just because YOU don't get that doesn't make it "LMAO." Having similar choices (Patron and patronless) would make everyone happy.
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Not this mish-mash of crap with swapping a power out that the player picked to be given a power they did not choose in the first place. If I wanted FA on my scrapper I have that option- I do not because I did not want it. Now, it looks like the devs will be makiing the decision for us. What line of thinking propeled this decision? Serioulsy.
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And that to me, even more than powers getting replaced to begin with, is what really bugs me. I really, REALLY expect Stalker PPPs to be changed drastically. How many take (and use) the snipe, with its eight second animation? How many take the "OK, you guys can ignore my hide now because you saw him way over there" pet? How many Brutes take (and keep) the pet?
Yet I want the people who DID choose them and want/like them, or whatever else is being changed, to have the choice to keep them.
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The Weapons Pool is one of my favorites, I sure hope I don't lose any powers from it due to the addition of Focused Accuracy.
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According to the podcast, they're looking at flat out replacing roughly 20% of the APP powers, and Castle did clarify that the powers absolutely will be replaced, not grandfathered, not added as a fifth power in the pools. Powers will be removed from the APPs, new powers put in their places, and as soon as you log in after the patch goes live, if you have a power that was replaced, that power will be gone, the replacement power will be there instead.
I'll wait to see what powers are actually going to be removed, and what their replacements will be, before raising a ruckus, but I am more than a little concerned already. I like my unpopular APP powers, I don't look forward to losing them.
Man I hope you guys are prepared for the coming storm of people complaining about the outright removal of powers.
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You missed two points, Zombie:
1) If the updated War Mace overperforms, Castle thinks it'll more likely be because of Crowd Control's max number of targets, and not because of the change to Clobber.
2) As one example of the Epic/Patron changes, Castle mentions that Weapon Mastery for Scrappers will now include Focused Accuracy. If his memory is correct.
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Oh man that sucks! Scrappers that wanted Focus Acc already could get it in another pool!
Now we will end up with epic pools having in them the same powers? Thats bs imho.
My ninja scrapper likes his caltrops and both shuriken attacks.
*pouts* 
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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But I'm not having an aneurysm about this.
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Who's having an aneurysm? I'm stating it's a bad idea to put in place a mechanism that changes peoples power choices. There has to be a half dozen ways they can do this and not immediately force an unwanted change. It may take time, but it would be worth it. Based on the tanker taunt change, it appears it's already possible.
Changing numbers is one thing, logging into to find I have focused accuracy two slotted for slow and with two damage procs, *requiring* a respec to fix is just silly. I have damage procs in the other two powers as well. While the thought of FA turning into a self damage power is amusing, I'd really rather keep what I have.
Even if it was a power I took just to get another one, like boxing, wasn't slotted at all, and was replaced with focused accuracy... something many players would drool over, I'd still be against it. I'm against changing characters without the player doing it themselves.
Logging in to find your characters power lineup changed is an ugly solution. It should only be required upon the next respec. I'm not yelling, I'm not screaming. I'm pointing out a bad design decision in the hopes it can be changed before live. There must be a better way than this.
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Plus on top of all this is the fact that no one wanted or asked for powers to be swapped around to begin with- Villians want Epics. It's just that freaking simple. Some heroes want Patrons (LMAO). Not this mish-mash of crap with swapping a power out that the player picked to be given a power they did not choose in the first place. If I wanted FA on my scrapper I have that option- I do not because I did not want it. Now, it looks like the devs will be makiing the decision for us. What line of thinking propeled this decision? Serioulsy.
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Get your facts straight.
Plenty of people have asked for powers they don't have access to.
Plenty of PvPers have complained Power Boost is too powerful.
If you're going to scream NIMBY, your input will be given the regard it's due.
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LOL- where are my facts wrong? Serioulsy- people asking for powers they don't have access too- yeah- big shocker there- I KNOW people want powers they don't have access to, mainly, PATRONS v. EPICS. I never said people didn't. Here are your facts.
A). Patrons SUCK compared to hero epics- it's FACT.
B). Villians want the hero Epics. And Vice versa- It's FACT.
C). NO ONE wants powers taken away to be given powers they did not want. Serioulsy. Hundreds of complaints about Patrons v. Epics- no one said that they wanted powers actually taken away from them after the fact they choose them- they just want to be given more to choose from. Again, It's FACT.
D). From the info posted it seems like we are going to lose un-popular powers that players choose and be given powers that they could have choosen but did not. This flies in the face of past Dev explinations of datamining and "tweaking" (NERFING) popular powers. (ET, EMel). Now, they'll give the players the popular powers (FA) even if they could have taken them in the first place but didn't. I'm hoping to be wrong on this one but I have no faith in the Dev team and their actions of the last year. This all seems like it's going to be done to the characters even if the player do not want it to be done to their characters.
E). Why the hell are they even looking at the hero epics for power-swapping or whatever the devs are gonna call this massive cluster [censored] to begin with? Why is weapon mastery getting FA? Serioulsy WHY? What is it going to lose to get it? And all this is ignoring the fact that if the scrapper wanted to get FA all they had to do is pick the body mastery pool!! Is the weapon mastery going to lose anything to get FA?
And why the do you keep bringing up Power Boost? If I don't CARE about Power Boost in PvE I'm sure as hell not going to give one [censored] about in PvP or the MINORITY opinion of the crybaby PvP'ers.
Hopefully today there will some more expalining and this will all be a mis-understanding and they are actually going to give some Epic Pools a 5th power option. Hopefully in the end the villians get Epics. I know they are not going to be given over to villains in their entirety, which alone is cause for concern.
Less options are bad, more options are good.
::Edited to add::
Yes, some heroes want the Patrons- sorry for dissing them before and above.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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The Weapons Pool is one of my favorites, I sure hope I don't lose any powers from it due to the addition of Focused Accuracy.
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According to the podcast, they're looking at flat out replacing roughly 20% of the APP powers, and Castle did clarify that the powers absolutely will be replaced, not grandfathered, not added as a fifth power in the pools. Powers will be removed from the APPs, new powers put in their places, and as soon as you log in after the patch goes live, if you have a power that was replaced, that power will be gone, the replacement power will be there instead.
I'll wait to see what powers are actually going to be removed, and what their replacements will be, before raising a ruckus, but I am more than a little concerned already. I like my unpopular APP powers, I don't look forward to losing them.
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Seriously, if removing powers just to put a copycat of another epic power is what they intend to do then thats not good. We are losing variety and choices. Whats the point?
Replacing 20% of every epic powers? Thats crazy. You can be sure that many people will be pissed off. There were as many players that liked their epic pet, throwing sharks, aoe immobs, ST holds as there were people not liking them.
So what? The wheel is just turning and the unsatisfied players now get their candy and the ones that were happy will see their powers replaced by FOTM Focus Accuracy crap and such... Great... Brilliant..
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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Man I hope you guys are prepared for the coming storm of people complaining about the outright removal of powers.
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Seconding this. Very strongly.
Everytime the game is losing a cool animation, its a big loss for the game. Removing some epic powers will probably remove forever some flashy powers players could see and enjoy during a fight.
In CoH near future : Every characters above level 41 will be seen running around with the little target reticle of Focus Accuracy power. That will be THE FX left in game. Good job!
I swear that if devs remove my Ghost Widow ST Hold where the target is turning around floating in the air, i will, i REALLY will kill a kitten!
Grrrr
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
And by the way, while at it, instead of even considering removing patron powers, why havent devs considered just fixing them and strenghtening some of them instead?
And if darn Focus Acc is soooo much popular and so much wanted by hardcore players then how the hell arent devs noticing that it is simply overpowered compared to whatever else is offered? And the first idea they come up with is to even further spread the disease to other epic pools?
You gotta be kidding me!
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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crybaby PvP'ers.
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irony 
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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crybaby PvP'ers.
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Funny.
You seem to be pretty pissed the [censored] off in your post above. I don't see the PvP forums exploding like you did.
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LOL- where are my facts wrong? Serioulsy- people asking for powers they don't have access too- yeah- big shocker there- I KNOW people want powers they don't have access to, mainly, PATRONS v. EPICS. I never said people didn't. Here are your facts.
A). Patrons SUCK compared to hero epics- it's FACT.
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You need to put qualifiers in there. My Fire/ tank, for instance, would LOVE an AOE immob like my Brute has access to. I'd have actually kept Burn.
Patron pets? Some (Aggro-generating despite hide Stalker pets) suck. Some (with heals - corruptor pets, IIRC) are somewhat useful.
In general, they do the same thing - fill holes. The problem is that Some PPPs are underpowered or have powers that really need work (8 second snipe? C'mon, really?) and Some hero Epics are overpowered. (Focused Acc, FoN - but can you really tell me my Earth controller's Earth epic, with some armor, Hurl, a HP boost and Fissure, is overpowered? How about a Blaster's /Fire APP?
Main point I'm trying to make is that just saying "Redside's PPPs suck, blueside's APPs are overpowered" is a grossly inaccurate blanket statement. True in some specific cases, not true in many - and one of the disparities (the inability to respec PPPs) is going away.
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B). Villians want the hero Epics. And Vice versa- It's FACT.
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I'd say they want the same *concept,* just to be nitpicky - since that's what I do. And yeah, some want the actual powers (usually the overpowered, expect-a-nerf ones, like FA.)
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C). NO ONE wants powers taken away to be given powers they did not want. Serioulsy. Hundreds of complaints about Patrons v. Epics- no one said that they wanted powers actually taken away from them after the fact they choose them- they just want to be given more to choose from. Again, It's FACT.
D). From the info posted it seems like we are going to lose un-popular powers that players choose and be given powers that they could have choosen but did not. This flies in the face of past Dev explinations of datamining and "tweaking" (NERFING) popular powers. (ET, EMel). Now, they'll give the players the popular powers (FA) even if they could have taken them in the first place but didn't. I'm hoping to be wrong on this one but I have no faith in the Dev team and their actions of the last year. This all seems like it's going to be done to the characters even if the player do not want it to be done to their characters.
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Kind of turned the same thing into two points... but I think the gist is *worth* the repetition. Having powers you chose taken away for a power you *didn't* choose, with no input (outside of beta, if you're in early enough) is going to have ten sorts of hell raised about it.
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E). Why the hell are they even looking at the hero epics for power-swapping or whatever the devs are gonna call this massive cluster [censored] to begin with? Why is weapon mastery getting FA? Serioulsy WHY? What is it going to lose to get it? And all this is ignoring the fact that if the scrapper wanted to get FA all they had to do is pick the body mastery pool!! Is the weapon mastery going to lose anything to get FA?
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Weapon mastery will. What it will lose, we don't know. We've been told flat out it's a replacement.
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And why the do you keep bringing up Power Boost? If I don't CARE about Power Boost in PvE I'm sure as hell not going to give one [censored] about in PvP or the MINORITY opinion of the crybaby PvP'ers.
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Whether you like it or not, PVP is part of the game. And yes, the opinions of the people who are involved are JUST as valid for the part of the game they're involved in as those who badge, or play just for the market, or run nothing but task forces.
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Hopefully today there will some more expalining and this will all be a mis-understanding and they are actually going to give some Epic Pools a 5th power option. Hopefully in the end the villians get Epics. I know they are not going to be given over to villains in their entirety, which alone is cause for concern.
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No 5th power. Replacement is how it sounds now.
Before going completely over the edge on this issue, everyone, why don't we just wait for the beta to start so we can see exactly what's being changed, determine the effects of those changes and present validated, justified concerns to Castle. I'm no more excited about losing some of my favorite APP/EPP powers than anyone else, but until I actually know which powers are being removed, and what the replacements are, there's no point getting upset over it.
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Before going completely over the edge on this issue, everyone, why don't we just wait for the beta to start so we can see exactly what's being changed, determine the effects of those changes and present validated, justified concerns to Castle. I'm no more excited about losing some of my favorite APP/EPP powers than anyone else, but until I actually know which powers are being removed, and what the replacements are, there's no point getting upset over it.
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Mmm...k... The kitten will live... For now... *shrugs*
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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I think it's funny how mad some folks get at changes that aren't all even announced yet. So what if they take a power here or there and swap it... learn to deal with it. I mean, did the concept of flexibility disappear while I wasn't looking? It's not like any character will be "perfect" anyway; there is (and always will be) room for improvement on all characters. Why do you think people argue ad infinitum about slotting and power choices on practically every power combination, hmmmm? Because everyone has a different (and in most cases), just as good and valid way of doing things.
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Brilliant. I wish I could frame this and stick it on the top of the forums.
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Before going completely over the edge on this issue, everyone, why don't we just wait for the beta to start so we can see exactly what's being changed, determine the effects of those changes and present validated, justified concerns to Castle. I'm no more excited about losing some of my favorite APP/EPP powers than anyone else, but until I actually know which powers are being removed, and what the replacements are, there's no point getting upset over it.
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I'd argue that, even though we don't know details, the very fact that powers are being replaced wholesale does, indeed, deserve the hue and cry now being raised.
No, we don't know the details on what's happening to what - but there are a lot of concerns (for instance, a Stalker may have no use for their pet... but what if they'd spent several tens of million on the Soulbound Alliegance set for the Regen, Recov, and damage bonuses? What if they LIKE the pet? What if it's tied into their concept - say, a symbol of usurping Scirocco's power or some such, and it's being replaced with, oh, an AOE sleep for example?)
The biggest "WTF" about this, though, is that players will have powers automatically replaced. They are not given a choice. And we, on the forums, are only - what, 5%? 10%? of the playerbase.
While not on the same scale (as this is 'just' some epics,) NCNC should look over at SWG's recent history after a certain change...
I will be most upset if they remove Energy Torrent from Tanker's Energy Mastery APP. That's the reason I took the pool in the first place.
On that same note, I really hope they leave that set alone altogether.
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