Discussion: Issue 13: Architect
By
9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-08-26 09:40 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
My toon that could use it is not using the flight power right now and so would have to respec just to add the flight power. With having a perm jet pack I would want to respec that toon just to be able to use it but I won't pay $4.99 a month just to keep it, Now I'm planning on buying the Cybrog package also as so as its perm and not temp also. Maybe it they were smart they would make it perm for those buying the Cybrog package also. That would add incentive for more people to buy the Cybrog package.
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Now, I have my doubt that they'll ever do it again, now that sg's can have 150 members...
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By the way, on that note, our SG is nearly full.
Again.
I can understand keeping a level cap at 50 (sorta), but it would be nice to be able to fit in the folks we'd like to welcome.
Especially now that - thanks to some jerks - those of us who DON'T loot the storage bins of our Coalition pals can't even donate to them anymore. So, once again, the honest and law-abiding are punished for the actions of the Twit Minority, may their souls rot in Hell.
Dasher (Hero of the City, Protector of the Innocent, Founding GUARDIAN and firm believer in the death penalty without appeal for felons, hackers, and cheaters of any stripe)
HELP SAVE THIS GAME!
If we can save this game, I promise I will never complain about Travel Power Suppression again! You have my word on it!
"The customer is always right."
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My toon that could use it is not using the flight power right now and so would have to respec just to add the flight power. With having a perm jet pack I would want to respec that toon just to be able to use it but I won't pay $4.99 a month just to keep it,
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I still don't understand why you'd have to respec to use the jet pack. The jet pack GIVES you the Fly power... it's not just a costume piece. In fact, you couldn't use the jet pack and the "real" Fly power together anyway.
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Now, I have my doubt that they'll ever do it again, now that sg's can have 150 members...
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By the way, on that note, our SG is nearly full.
Again.
I can understand keeping a level cap at 50 (sorta), but it would be nice to be able to fit in the folks we'd like to welcome.
Especially now that - thanks to some jerks - those of us who DON'T loot the storage bins of our Coalition pals can't even donate to them anymore. So, once again, the honest and law-abiding are punished for the actions of the Twit Minority, may their souls rot in Hell.
Dasher (Hero of the City, Protector of the Innocent, Founding GUARDIAN and firm believer in the death penalty without appeal for felons, hackers, and cheaters of any stripe)
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We feel your pain as we're had to start kicking inactives again, with slot proliferation and a few accounts each, 3 people can fill an SG. We have a few full SGs and it's a juggling act to add more members.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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My toon that could use it is not using the flight power right now and so would have to respec just to add the flight power. With having a perm jet pack I would want to respec that toon just to be able to use it but I won't pay $4.99 a month just to keep it,
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I still don't understand why you'd have to respec to use the jet pack. The jet pack GIVES you the Fly power... it's not just a costume piece. In fact, you couldn't use the jet pack and the "real" Fly power together anyway.
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A better question is "What's a Cybrog?"
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
LOL, our SG, Paragons Privateers, has a large SG base (we have been issued our own zip code per City Hall). I would like to design some missions where you have to fight the AV ,when he is raiding my base, as the finish to a story arc.
I doubt we will have that capability but it would be cool nonetheless.
Does anyone know if the Architect will be able to be used offline to create missions and then be able to upload them to the game when you connect? I hope that they do it this way, since that makes the most sense to handle the mission builder.
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
The Cape Radio
"It's good to have friends. Wish I did." - Troy Hickman
Something I think would be a welcome addition to base control for SG leadership is a little more fine tuning in the "permissions". It would be great as promotions become available to allow specific access to specific SG items, i.e; storage, inspir collectors, vault, etc.. Something to have our new recruites look forward to.
Has this been brought up already?
Just a thought
If its broke, don't fix it... I like the chaos!
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Something I think would be a welcome addition to base control for SG leadership is a little more fine tuning in the "permissions". It would be great as promotions become available to allow specific access to specific SG items, i.e; storage, inspir collectors, vault, etc.. Something to have our new recruites look forward to.
Has this been brought up already?
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Many, many times. A more robust permissions system has been asked for since bases first appeared.
... also being able to promote/demote offline Hero's would be greatly appreciated. Man, the more and more I think about it there are a lot of options I'd love to see. Guess I'm in the right place, hope it's the right time!!!
If its broke, don't fix it... I like the chaos!
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Does anyone know if the Architect will be able to be used offline to create missions and then be able to upload them to the game when you connect? I hope that they do it this way, since that makes the most sense to handle the mission builder.
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
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Possible but I doubt it - The current game client (the part that lives on your machine) isn't geared to do that in any way, plus if they make any changes ("As of today, you can no longer place the evil blue 'cake' room!") they'd have to re-check the entire level when you went to upload it.
(Although I do hope that add that feature in for the costume maker. I'd LOVE to be able to "save" costumes and upload them to multiple characters...)
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Does anyone know if the Architect will be able to be used offline to create missions and then be able to upload them to the game when you connect? I hope that they do it this way, since that makes the most sense to handle the mission builder.
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
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Possible but I doubt it - The current game client (the part that lives on your machine) isn't geared to do that in any way, plus if they make any changes ("As of today, you can no longer place the evil blue 'cake' room!") they'd have to re-check the entire level when you went to upload it.
(Although I do hope that add that feature in for the costume maker. I'd LOVE to be able to "save" costumes and upload them to multiple characters...)
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That WOULD be a timesaver for the "Supergroup Uniform" SGs...just send a file with the supergroup's approved costume, and hit a "Load Costume" button at the Tailor...voila.
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
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So the devs could spend their time creating more content for the smaller segment of the player base... or they could spend their time creating content for the larger segment of the player base... or they could spend their time creating content for both segments simultaneously... gosh... I wonder what they'll do...??
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This LOGIC PHAILS.
Here is why.. Everyone who loves villains has done the content 5 ten 20 40 times all the way through already...
So they go back to Heroes.. Because atleast with Heroes there is CHOICE in how to level up.
VILLAINS HAS NO CHOICE.
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If I type IN ALL CAPS it will make what I say TRUE AND IRREFUTABLE! Also, deliberately misspelling words will give me LEET CRED!
Seriously now, shouting at the devs, WHERE IS MY VILLAIN CONTENT? isnt going to actually get you villain content. CoV is an add-on to the CoH universe. Thats just something you need to come to terms with. New zones from this point on are going to be for both sides. Look at the RWZ and Ourobrous and Cimerora and see the future. New villain-only zones are highly unlikely in the future because villain players are a much smaller population. Shouting about it wont change that fact, nor will it change the clear business decisions that imbalance makes necessary.
(Caveat: This is a prediction that could, of course, be wrong. But given what weve seen over the last year and the hints dropped by that market survey, I feel confident about it.)
If you want more villain-only content, then youre going to be getting the bloody tools to write it yourself.
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Maybe I'm totally coming out of nowhere here, but it seems to me that the Devs are gearing up to completely eliminate the "barrier" between CoH and CoV. In other words, you could say "Hi!" to a Mastermind trotting through Atlas park on his way to the new Black Market station.....
[Don't get me wrong, this would take a lot of effort.]
I see places like Ouroboros, RWZ and Pocket D all being doorways to the other-side. Didn't the Devs just give us all access to both sides of the game? I don't see this as just being nice in order to give us all more play options.
"Maybe I'm totally coming out of nowhere here, but it seems to me that the Devs are gearing up to completely eliminate the "barrier" between CoH and CoV. In other words, you could say "Hi!" to a Mastermind trotting through Atlas park on his way to the new Black Market station.....
[Don't get me wrong, this would take a lot of effort.]"
Im not 100% certain it would, as it seems(to me), all that would be needed would be to remove the flag that makes the exits from Pocket D "Heroside" or "Villainside"(also removing the relatedguard dialog of course), since both sides already have the ability to zone into an area(unless the PC/RI areas are also flagged as heroes/villains only, meaning another flag removal). The major problem I see would be the lag created by a bunch of yahoos from both sides invading the others sides area. My guess is that Pocket D wouldn't be able to be used for this(Zero intolerance 
), but if implemented, look for a massive upswing in pvp zone population. There's also a question of whether or not to have missions in the other side's area, and with the now "non-functional during Rikti raids" NPCs "go active" when villains are present blueside, and vice versa. Personally, that's what I would've liked the pvp to be, and packaged as a completely different game(a pve and pvp version of CoX), so you'd be able to play with people of similar interests. Wouldve been more work, but it would've bee nice.
JohnX
If I wanted to PvP, I would just run outside and gank people with rocks.
GhostbustersBR
I wonder if anyone has ever been offended by my hero "Asparagus-Man" because someone they know is a vegetable...?
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"Maybe I'm totally coming out of nowhere here, but it seems to me that the Devs are gearing up to completely eliminate the "barrier" between CoH and CoV. In other words, you could say "Hi!" to a Mastermind trotting through Atlas park on his way to the new Black Market station.....
{Don't get me wrong, this would take a lot of effort.}"
[/ QUOTE ]Im not 100% certain it would, as it seems(to me), all that would be needed would be to remove the flag that makes the exits from Pocket D "Heroside" or "Villainside"(also removing the relatedguard dialog of course), since both sides already have the ability to zone into an area(unless the PC/RI areas are also flagged as heroes/villains only, meaning another flag removal). The major problem I see would be the lag created by a bunch of yahoos from both sides invading the others sides area. My guess is that Pocket D wouldn't be able to be used for this(Zero intolerance ), but if implemented, look for a massive upswing in pvp zone population. There's also a question of whether or not to have missions in the other side's area, and with the now "non-functional during Rikti raids" NPCs "go active" when villains are present blueside, and vice versa. Personally, that's what I would've liked the pvp to be, and packaged as a completely different game(a pve and pvp version of CoX), so you'd be able to play with people of similar interests. Wouldve been more work, but it would've bee nice.
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That's just the BEGINNING of the project. Some of the original "Let's make CoV" stuff probably re-used some variable from Coh they shouldn't have because they meant to set it up to cross-over. Stuff like badges, mission arcs, clues, etc. might have a "If you're a villain, show this - if you're a hero, show this" are easy things to do if you're in a rush.
Gonna need lots of checking and testing. This is a lot more complex then just adding an archetype. But it means a crapload more badges I can get. (what's the maximum number of badges I can get? Would that blow something up somewhere? Another thing to check!)
QR
It's kinda hard to read through 70 pages of responses to a thread, so I'll just throw this out there...
Task Force Recipe Merits should be in addition to the original TF rewards as opposed to instead of them, shouldn't they? I mean, they're there to allow people who get crap recipes over and over again to actually get something *good* once in a friggin while. I know from personal experience that getting an onslaught of sleep, fear, snipe and immobilize recipes made me swear off TFs for at least a month just out of frustration. This should be a system to make sure that those who take the time and make the commitment to run these TFs get something for the time they invest, just like frequent shopper reward systems.
How many times have you been to a place, bought something and they give you a punch card to fill up on your next visits to get something free? Buy 5 more sandwiches and your 6th one is on us! That's the idea, not "Come to our store, pay for a sandwich, don't actually GET a sandwich, but instead receive this token which, if you are stupid enough to visit us again and again, will give you enough tokens so that you can get a really good sandwich a few days from now." Wha? 
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Task Force Recipe Merits should be in addition to the original TF rewards as opposed to instead of them, shouldn't they?
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In my opinion? No.
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I mean, they're there to allow people who get crap recipes over and over again to actually get something *good* once in a friggin while.
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No they aren't. They're there to allow people to avoid the uncertainty of random drops by saving up credits from what they've done. The situation you describe would allow people to both save up to get something good, and randomly get good stuff once in a while. If you get the benefits of the randomness in addition to the guaranteed eventual reward, the system is skewed.
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How many times have you been to a place, bought something and they give you a punch card to fill up on your next visits to get something free?
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Plenty. In none of those cases, however, did I walk in and say, "I'd like to buy something at random. Please give me whatever random item those dice you have sitting beside the register tell you I should get."
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Buy 5 more sandwiches and your 6th one is on us! That's the idea, not "Come to our store, pay for a sandwich, don't actually GET a sandwich, but instead receive this token which, if you are stupid enough to visit us again and again, will give you enough tokens so that you can get a really good sandwich a few days from now." Wha?
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Let's try a different analogy that makes more sense. Say that you wanted to buy a house. (Picking a house because it's a big-ticket item that a lot of folks have trouble affording; feel free to substitute "yacht," "Porsche," or "Angelina Jolie" if you prefer.)
There are two ways that you see to go about getting the money to do this. One is to play the lottery repeatedly. People win, after all, and if you win, you'll have the money to buy a house. If you play the lottery, you're probably going to have to throw a lot of money at it, because it's pretty low-probability, so you won't be able to save up for the house. But that's okay, because you're pretty sure that the lottery will eventually pay out.
The second is to save your money. Go to your job, do your thing, put money in the bank. It will take a while, but you'll eventually get what you want. Guaranteed.
What you want is the equivalent of a free lottery ticket every time you deposit money in the bank. That may sound great to you, but it creates a system that's skewed in such a way that the rich (the people who can run TFs all the time) continue to get even richer, while the poor find themselves even further disadvantaged.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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What you want is the equivalent of a free lottery ticket every time you deposit money in the bank. That may sound great to you, but it creates a system that's skewed in such a way that the rich (the people who can run TFs all the time) continue to get even richer, while the poor find themselves even further disadvantaged.
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This is simply untrue. While such a system would indeed make the rich even richer, the poor would also be richer as they too would be getting more from each task force they play.
I would prefer the random drop AND credit system. Would those who farm tf's and play coh all day become ridiculously wealthy under such a system? Yes. But as of now, the io/recipe part of the game is not as accessable to the casual player as it should be imo. I play almost every day and I find it frustrating to be able to io out my characters without grinding or farming, and thats not a good thing. If I were a casual gamer, I probably wouldn't play this game at all.
Making features more easily accessable to the casual gamer will increase this games attractiveness to everyone. Making tf's more rewarding is a start. Next, I would suggest improving drops on teams and creating rewards for pvp play while reworking pvp to make it more accessable to all at's.
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What you want is the equivalent of a free lottery ticket every time you deposit money in the bank. That may sound great to you, but it creates a system that's skewed in such a way that the rich (the people who can run TFs all the time) continue to get even richer, while the poor find themselves even further disadvantaged.
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This is simply untrue. While such a system would indeed make the rich even richer, the poor would also be richer as they too would be getting more from each task force they play.
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I'm sorry, you're not allowed to pretend I said something that I didn't. I did not say the poor would not get richer. I said they would be further disadvantaged. Even if they get richer, the rich are getting richer at a faster rate, and therefore continue to have greater market leverage and easier access to goods due to their greater bankrolls.
Would your system even make a difference to someone who only TFs, say, 1 time a week? I don't think such a person would see an appreciable difference in rewards under the system you advocate from what we have now. They get their random drop that they would have gotten under the current system, and maybe get merits equal to 1/20 of a "choice" drop. So, 4.5 months later, they get to pick from the wall o' prizes.
Of course there are assumptions embedded in these numbers (probably optimistic, given what Posi said about how many merits it takes to buy a "choice" recipe, relative to how long it would take to get one by chance), but for the person who doesn't play many TFs, the change is not all that noticeable. In my mind, someone this casual shouldn't use TFs to get merits to begin with and should pick something that awards them more in concert with the individual's playing style. It's very much my hope that the merit system will allow this to happen.
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I would prefer the random drop AND credit system.
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And I think it would have the potential to be horribly abusable. It's not like we have ever been given the option of taking a random drop and a specific SO for these things, why would we expect merits to work any differently?
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Would those who farm tf's and play coh all day become ridiculously wealthy under such a system? Yes. But as of now, the io/recipe part of the game is not as accessable to the casual player as it should be imo.
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The solution is not to double-reward TFs. It's to reward lots of things other than TFs with merits, so that people who can't do TFs suddenly have access to the rewards they were previously locked out of. If you make TFs double-rewards, that only increases farming. If you want to be more casual-friendly, make sure regular missions and arcs award merits.
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I play almost every day and I find it frustrating to be able to io out my characters without grinding or farming, and thats not a good thing. If I were a casual gamer, I probably wouldn't play this game at all.
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You aren't a casual gamer, you do play the game, and lots of casual players still play the game despite the issues you have with it. I have a problem accepting your argument, as such.
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Making features more easily accessable to the casual gamer will increase this games attractiveness to everyone. Making tf's more rewarding is a start.
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Again, there are lots of ways to make loot more accessible without suddenly creating a double-reward scenario that benefits people with specific playstyles and SG memberships. Making TFs more rewarding doesn't start anything except more farming, and would be a horrifically short-sighted thing for the devs to do. There are far better ways to do what you seem to want to do.
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Next, I would suggest improving drops on teams and creating rewards for pvp play while reworking pvp to make it more accessable to all at's.
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Is it a forum requirement that I include "lolpvp" at this point?
Agreed on the drops on teams, btw. That's just silly. Rewarding people for not-teaming is a system that I've never been able to get behind, and that's what the current drop system does for ATs that deal meaningful damage.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
I dont understand why so many people are complaining, anything new for heroes or villains would be great. I cant wait to have a sheild tank of m own!
And as for the farming issue on the player created missions... people are going to farm no matter what happens, i only wish that those of us who have good ideas and creativity wouldn't have to suffer because of it...
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people are going to farm no matter what happens, i only wish that those of us who have good ideas and creativity wouldn't have to suffer because of it...
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Totally agree.
Hey Lighthouse, my buddy and me attended pax in Seattle and my buddy was having a short discussion with u about veats and heroes and u stated that there is a pleasant surprise in store for the heroes in I13, any info u can give about this?
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I dont understand why so many people are complaining, anything new for heroes or villains would be great. I cant wait to have a sheild tank of m own!
And as for the farming issue on the player created missions... people are going to farm no matter what happens, i only wish that those of us who have good ideas and creativity wouldn't have to suffer because of it...
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I tend to agree. It seems the DEVS and the players are both to blame for rampant farming. I don't think the DEVS mind too much but I could be wrong. If anyone thinks this is a problem just ask why people farm and fix the problem that way.
I have to say my main reason is because of the very repetitive content. It's dull to see the same thing over and over. When the only essential difference in a bunch of missions is the text...well...thet's a problem. I am hoping the mission creator will give us the ability to have some different looks for the mobs, bosses and any elite enemies etc. I also really hope we get some VERY different looking tilesets/maps for missions. DEVS say we have 1 000 maps to choose from in the Mish Creator...well when many tile sets are variations of each other....it is a bit misleading.
PONIES! Maybe a kheld buff? Eh? It could happen... lol
JohnX
If I wanted to PvP, I would just run outside and gank people with rocks.
GhostbustersBR
I wonder if anyone has ever been offended by my hero "Asparagus-Man" because someone they know is a vegetable...?
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I won't pay $4.99 for the temp Jet Pack that only last one month and should be permanent if I have to pay for it. Just to use it I would have to waste two respecs, one to add flight and another to remove flight a month later. This is a illogical and badly thought out idea if they expect that they will make alot of money selling it as a temp power.
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When they offered the game cards that came with the temp power for 30 days, lots of posters said they wanted it too. And would buy game cards every month to get it.
This makes it easier for those who do want to spend extra every month to have it.
I dont think its a great choice to make, but <shrugs> other people money.
Maybe if I knew I was going to be starting a whole heap of new characters and would get more worth out it (from 1st level to kings rows safeguard)
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):