Discussion: Comic Con Articles
By
Amarsir,
Posted on: 2008-07-24 18:12 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Actually, they don't say issue 13 will be the last issue. They just say it'll be the last issue THIS YEAR, which, with only 5 months left in the year, isn't all that unlikely unless things progress really, really smoothly with i13 and i14...
[/ QUOTE ]This is just an announcement to point out that we have made no official statements regarding the timeline or release of our Free Issues. And that the articles have perhaps misinterpreted what was stated.
[/ QUOTE ]Fair enough. Please be aware that many of us have expectations based on previously made actual official statements. Namely that we should expect 3 issues per year. If that is to change we would appreciate an official annoucment of such, and sooner rather than later would be admirable.
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I think when we say 3 issues per year, what we really mean is 12 months/3...as in an issue every 4 months. We're not really paying much attention to where things fall in the calender year, just how much time passes between issues. That's the goal at least.
Are we hitting that goal? At this particular moment, not really. Chalk that up to forming a new company, moving into a new studio, and hiring/training a lot of new people. When you go from being a very tight-knit team of 15 people rapidly churning out issues and snatching up all of the low hanging fruit we can get our hands on to a much larger studio working on very large systems and the type of content that takes the longest to develop...things tend to slow down a bit.
I don't think we're that far behind though. If you look at the amount of things added to the game since the beginning of the year rather than just counting the issue numbers between January 1st and today, there's actually a good chunk of content that you guys have gotten without any additional costs. Probably close to 1 1/2 to 2 issues of content already. There was the mid-issue update for 11 and Issue 12, while not a great deal of new long-term content, was in reality quite a bit of work. We kind of went into I12 thinking it was going to be a smaller issue, but when everything was said and done and we looked back on everything we'd put in there, we realized how much work had really gone into it.
Having more people on the team is kind of a double-edged sword. We've found ourselves setting out to do things that we would have never considered before because we simply didn't have the people to do it. Now that we do, we're really reaching for some pretty high hanging fruit. Player created missions is only one of the things you guys have heard about...but there are some other big things also being worked on as well. Things that haven't been announced yet.
Chew on that for a while. We've announced player created missions. What do you think we might be working on that we didn't feel comfortable announcing yet?
All in all, I feel like we're starting to hit our stride, and we're still looking to expand the team even more to further increase our capacities...bear with us. I assure you, it's just as frustrating for us to have these long spans without new shiny content to keep you guys happily playing the game, but we really are doing the best we can.
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I completely agree. Keeping us in the dark is annoying. I'm also losing interest with the game. I started played in Jan 2008 so learning the game kept my interest for a while and then i12 hit so it was ok. Now that I have a good chunk of the game down I am wanting the next issue 
I see the mish creator is a hot topic but I think they should have dealt with other areas first. Going server-less is a big one. Also give each faction the ability to venture to the other side would be more important. As it stands the game divides the players way too much - spread over its numerous servers and then split between heroes or villains. Anyway, I hope this is being looked at
Any more info available for the future of this game in that address??
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If you've really blown through every bit of content this game has to offer, on both sides, in 7 months...I think I can safely say you can forget about us ever being able to keep your appetite for new content sated.
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Actually, they don't say issue 13 will be the last issue. They just say it'll be the last issue THIS YEAR, which, with only 5 months left in the year, isn't all that unlikely unless things progress really, really smoothly with i13 and i14...
[/ QUOTE ]This is just an announcement to point out that we have made no official statements regarding the timeline or release of our Free Issues. And that the articles have perhaps misinterpreted what was stated.
[/ QUOTE ]Fair enough. Please be aware that many of us have expectations based on previously made actual official statements. Namely that we should expect 3 issues per year. If that is to change we would appreciate an official annoucment of such, and sooner rather than later would be admirable.
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I think when we say 3 issues per year, what we really mean is 12 months/3...as in an issue every 4 months. We're not really paying much attention to where things fall in the calender year, just how much time passes between issues. That's the goal at least.
Are we hitting that goal? At this particular moment, not really. Chalk that up to forming a new company, moving into a new studio, and hiring/training a lot of new people. When you go from being a very tight-knit team of 15 people rapidly churning out issues and snatching up all of the low hanging fruit we can get our hands on to a much larger studio working on very large systems and the type of content that takes the longest to develop...things tend to slow down a bit.
I don't think we're that far behind though. If you look at the amount of things added to the game since the beginning of the year rather than just counting the issue numbers between January 1st and today, there's actually a good chunk of content that you guys have gotten without any additional costs. Probably close to 1 1/2 to 2 issues of content already. There was the mid-issue update for 11 and Issue 12, while not a great deal of new long-term content, was in reality quite a bit of work. We kind of went into I12 thinking it was going to be a smaller issue, but when everything was said and done and we looked back on everything we'd put in there, we realized how much work had really gone into it.
Having more people on the team is kind of a double-edged sword. We've found ourselves setting out to do things that we would have never considered before because we simply didn't have the people to do it. Now that we do, we're really reaching for some pretty high hanging fruit. Player created missions is only one of the things you guys have heard about...but there are some other big things also being worked on as well. Things that haven't been announced yet.
Chew on that for a while. We've announced player created missions. What do you think we might be working on that we didn't feel comfortable announcing yet?
All in all, I feel like we're starting to hit our stride, and we're still looking to expand the team even more to further increase our capacities...bear with us. I assure you, it's just as frustrating for us to have these long spans without new shiny content to keep you guys happily playing the game, but we really are doing the best we can.
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I think most of us realize this will not be the norm and your transitioning (new company, new staff) slowed things down. That's fair enough. However, it doesn't make things much more fun when there is limited new content. I think we players can weather the storm for a bit
I'm new to MMOs and games. Do most of them not provide free new content like CoX does with its issues? I note that many DEVS state we're getting FREE new issues etc etc. However, without these free issues I am willing to bet big $ that this game would perish. Also, why is each issue thought of as free? Does our $15/month not help pay for this? It seems CoX has approx 180 000 subscibers and you multiply that by $15...seems like NC Soft is getting a good chunk of change from us and needs to do a bit more than they have this year. Lots of competition on the horizon. I do enjoy this game and will likely stay unless I am overwhelmed with the new games
Finally, is there any info that can be revealed for the future? Costume packs...are they happening? A pack would tide us over a bit, I'm sure
Costume packs are not new content. You contradict your own self stated needs.
Granted, I want costume packs. Just going on record there...
Nice replies BAB. Lots of Interpreation can be taken by your choice of Italics. I look forward to the official announcement, until then I won't read the speculation.
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Costume packs are not new content. You contradict your own self stated needs.
Granted, I want costume packs. Just going on record there...
Nice replies BAB. Lots of Interpreation can be taken by your choice of Italics. I look forward to the official announcement, until then I won't read the speculation.
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Not that it's a big deal but could you please point out where I do state a costume pack is new content? Could you?
Also, if a pack comes out with new costumes then I consider it new content. End of discussion. You're entitled to your wrong opinion
Jazman :
Everquest was the first MMO I had heard of.
Every so often (something like every 9 months or so, I think) they released new content in a pay-to-get expansion. This cost as much as the basic game, usually, for the first several months it was out.
While, from my understanding, World of Warcraft releases content every so often as a normal game update, their big stuff (new classes/races/skills) are in paid-box expansions. Without paying for them, you can't get into things like the new zones, etc. that WoW releases.
Other than City of Villains (the "stand-alone expansion") the City of Franchise has never had a boxed expansion.
So when they say "free updates" they mean "at no additional cost beyond the monthly fees."
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I'm new to MMOs and games. Do most of them not provide free new content like CoX does with its issues? I note that many DEVS state we're getting FREE new issues etc etc. However, without these free issues I am willing to bet big $ that this game would perish. Also, why is each issue thought of as free? Does our $15/month not help pay for this? It seems CoX has approx 180 000 subscibers and you multiply that by $15...seems like NC Soft is getting a good chunk of change from us and needs to do a bit more than they have this year. Lots of competition on the horizon. I do enjoy this game and will likely stay unless I am overwhelmed with the new games
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One, we don't have 180,000 subscribers. I don't know the exact number right now, but it's not that high.
Two, monthly subscription fees go toward many things. Running the servers. Hardware, IT support, bandwidth, etc. Technical Suport and CSR ( Hopefully you never have to deal with them, but they still account for a portion of the costs associated with running this game). Community support for the forums here. Lighthouse, Ex Libris, moderators, forum software, domain name hosting, more bandwidth for the forums, etc. All these people that don't actually create content for the game have ridiculous demands as well...such as a place to work, electricity, computers, software, insurance, etc. Guvment wants their cut of everything. There are also costs that I can't discuss and costs that I'm sure I'm not aware of right now. Bottom line is, it ain't cheap to make and run an MMO. It ain't cheap to just run one.
As for the actual developer studio side of things, I have no idea what percentage of subscription fees get funneled back into developing the 'free' issues, but I can assure you there aren't any high dollar sports cars sitting in our parking lot. Our new studio is nice, but nothing in it is gold plated. Hower, this is a business, and the point of business is to make a profit. So in all honesty, every penny of your subscription fee isn't actually going directly back into the game. That said, if you think for one second that any MMO with a subscription fee is any different, you are sadly mistaken. Sadly. Here's a sad face for you. 
To put this in a a different perspective, we have less subscribers than we did a year ago, and we have a lot more people working on 'free' content for you. I personally think that's a pretty good deal, and it should speak volumes about the commitment to this game and this franchise.
Let's be honest here...when the new games come out, you're gonna check them out. You may in fact, even like them more and stop playing our beloved game to go play that game. Threatening us with something that's most likely inevitable anyway isn't really going to accomplish anything. We're going to continue doing what we think is best for this game, to the best of our abilities, and in whatever time it takes to accomplish all of that.
Would you really want developers who get all panicky and spastic because there's impending competition? Competion is good. We look forward to having other MMOs in the same genre. It'll most likely be good for us and this game in the long run.
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I'm new to MMOs and games. Do most of them not provide free new content like CoX does with its issues? I note that many DEVS state we're getting FREE new issues etc etc. However, without these free issues I am willing to bet big $ that this game would perish. Also, why is each issue thought of as free? Does our $15/month not help pay for this? It seems CoX has approx 180 000 subscibers and you multiply that by $15...seems like NC Soft is getting a good chunk of change from us and needs to do a bit more than they have this year. Lots of competition on the horizon. I do enjoy this game and will likely stay unless I am overwhelmed with the new games
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Welcome to the world of gaming, Jaz. I really doubt that the CoX world would perish necessarily (being that it is the only Supe-based MMO... niche market FTW!). And although I only play this MMO; I do keep track of the gaming world, and this is one of the very few that doesnt charge for new content (if not the only one that does so if you consider the manner in which it is done and amount of content added). Of course NCsoft has tried a number of unique MMO styles (Guild Wars, Auto Assault, etc), and this one seems to be the winner as far as content distribution to player cash outlay.
Also remember that the $15/month goes to infrastructure as well as paying the salaries of the Devs who provide new content. All the content in the world doesnt matter a hill of beans if the electricity is shut down at the Server Farm or the Server drives arent maintained in a timely fashion. It may surprise you to know that a profit margin of 3-5% is considered good in many industries nowadays. Not everyone does the massive profiteering that the oil companies do (record profits for the past how many quarters?) and then whine that they arent making money. NCsoft NA is doing pretty well by its subscribership in my never to be humble opinion. BUT that is only this old man's opinion; YMMV.
PS - As far as the Supe-based MMO's on the horizon... they dont impress me much so far from what I have seen. Again YMMV. Cheers! 
Editted: Dagnabit! BAB stole me thunder! Guess I take too long typing. And dont you ever get any sleep BAB?
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Jazman, or whomever (not looking)
"Free" means nothing in this game is free.........
cause nothing in this game is free
except maybe the dev's love
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I'm new to MMOs and games. Do most of them not provide free new content like CoX does with its issues? I note that many DEVS state we're getting FREE new issues etc etc. However, without these free issues I am willing to bet big $ that this game would perish. Also, why is each issue thought of as free? Does our $15/month not help pay for this? It seems CoX has approx 180 000 subscibers and you multiply that by $15...seems like NC Soft is getting a good chunk of change from us and needs to do a bit more than they have this year. Lots of competition on the horizon. I do enjoy this game and will likely stay unless I am overwhelmed with the new games
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One, we don't have 180,000 subscribers. I don't know the exact number right now, but it's not that high.
Two, monthly subscription fees go toward many things. Running the servers. Hardware, IT support, bandwidth, etc. Technical Suport and CSR ( Hopefully you never have to deal with them, but they still account for a portion of the costs associated with running this game). Community support for the forums here. Lighthouse, Ex Libris, moderators, forum software, domain name hosting, more bandwidth for the forums, etc. All these people that don't actually create content for the game have ridiculous demands as well...such as a place to work, electricity, computers, software, insurance, etc. Guvment wants their cut of everything. There are also costs that I can't discuss and costs that I'm sure I'm not aware of right now. Bottom line is, it ain't cheap to make and run an MMO. It ain't cheap to just run one.
As for the actual developer studio side of things, I have no idea what percentage of subscription fees get funneled back into developing the 'free' issues, but I can assure you there aren't any high dollar sports cars sitting in our parking lot. Our new studio is nice, but nothing in it is gold plated. Hower, this is a business, and the point of business is to make a profit. So in all honesty, every penny of your subscription fee isn't actually going directly back into the game. That said, if you think for one second that any MMO with a subscription fee is any different, you are sadly mistaken. Sadly. Here's a sad face for you.
To put this in a a different perspective, we have less subscribers than we did a year ago, and we have a lot more people working on 'free' content for you. I personally think that's a pretty good deal, and it should speak volumes about the commitment to this game and this franchise.
Let's be honest here...when the new games come out, you're gonna check them out. You may in fact, even like them more and stop playing our beloved game to go play that game. Threatening us with something that's most likely inevitable anyway isn't really going to accomplish anything. We're going to continue doing what we think is best for this game, to the best of our abilities, and in whatever time it takes to accomplish all of that.
Would you really want developers who get all panicky and spastic because there's impending competition? Competion is good. We look forward to having other MMOs in the same genre. It'll most likely be good for us and this game in the long run.
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First off, I don't think I threatened to leave or anything of that nature. I believe I stated I would stay with this game unless I am overwhelmed by the new ones...I do believe I also stated I am a fan and enjoy the game. If I didn't I would be long gone. I am not planning on 'accomplishing' anything by making that statement. If I don't enjoy the game then I leave. I've been around long enough to realize the DEVS are doing a good job and our comments aren't going to hurry things up.
As far as subscribers, I go that number (180 000) from an article I read today on either massively.com or ign.com. Now, I am not taking that info as gospel so if you say there are less subscribers then so be it. Not a big deal.
I do realize our subscription fee does not go entirely to new issues. That is obvious and what is understood need not be discussed...it's a given fact. It's a business...it will not function on a charity basis. Am I mad there isn't more content this year than what we have so far? Nope. Just a little disappointed but it's not a big deal. I understand the headaches of change, transition, integrating new staff etc etc so I can empathize with the DEVS et al. This is a game. It's entertainment. If it bores me on a day I can go do other things. I'll live.
It seems my post was taken as far more negative than intended. It wasn't meant to be negative at all. It's me inquiring and learning about MMOs...something completely new to me. It's always nice when most posters comment in a non-inflammatory way. It is appreciated. In my world it is important to provide feedback..DEVS can't read our minds so it is important to voice opinions and preferences on the game's direction.
Finally, I don't know if I will check out the new games. I enjoy this one and I think with regular new content and improvements this one will be pretty solid. I am not into gaming a whole ton and will only go 1 game at a time. Who knows...maybe I will check out the new stuff but for right now I am fine with being here
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I do keep track of the gaming world, and this is one of the very few that doesnt charge for new content (if not the only one that does so if you consider the manner in which it is done and amount of content added).
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Only other one I can think of is Turbine's Dungeons and Dragons Online: Stormreach, which updates similarly to CoX - large "Modules" every few months of free content upgrades.
Ahem... while it may not "speak volumes" why are there less subscibers now than a year ago? Especially given we players are getting such a "great deal" now from the new and improved NCNC. Just asking a legit question, not seeking a flame war.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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First off, I don't think I threatened to leave or anything of that nature.
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What you said, which you yourself quoted, was this:
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...seems like NC Soft is getting a good chunk of change from us and needs to do a bit more than they have this year. Lots of competition on the horizon.
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The clear implication is that if NCSoft doesn't do more than they have thus far this year, players will be lured away by the competition. It's not out of line for BABs to assume that the comment was based on your own personal likelihood of staying, since he has no reason to think you speak for anyone else in particular.
I think that BAB's response was appropriate and informative, and appreciate his willingness to provide more perspective on the MMO business.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Ahem... while it may not "speak volumes" why are there less subscibers now than a year ago? Especially given we players are getting such a "great deal" now from the new and improved NCNC. Just asking a legit question, not seeking a flame war.
[/ QUOTE ]Because new things come along, or players get tired of playing, or many other reasons. I'm sorry if you think that a game world's community is static. It's not. It's malleable, constantly changing. Citing WoW as some sort of biblical saint or what an MMO should be like is the silliest thing ever. WoW is a fluke in this game genre. For 6 years, really more, the MMO world's biggest crowd was Everquest. At best 500,000 subscribers, or there abouts in it's heyday. Most of hte successful MMOs were between 100k and 200k subscribers. WoW is a fluke, a freak of nature, it's not the norm for this genre, and there is many reasons to actually doubt the legitimacy of those numbers, especially considering the largest subscription base comes from Asia.
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It is also important to mention that the reference on Massively.com to an idea that Issue 13 will be the last free issue for City of Heroes is completely false.
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I take it you mean the reference on IGN.com, which Massively then referred to. Massively also noted that it could be 'a communications blip', which IGN.com didn't.
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As you wish!
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And then, one day, Texas_Justice realized that when Castle was saying, "As you wish," what he really meant was, "I love you."
(Sorry, couldn't help myself. ObOP: Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that we only get two issues this year, too, but with it being late July and only starting to get teasers, I'd already figured that out.)
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As you wish!
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And then, one day, Texas_Justice realized that when Castle was saying, "As you wish," what he really meant was, "I love you."
(Sorry, couldn't help myself. ObOP: Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that we only get two issues this year, too, but with it being late July and only starting to get teasers, I'd already figured that out.)
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Koschej: I promise I will not mod you until you reach the end of the thread.
InfamousBrad: That's VERY comforting, but I'm afraid you'll just have to wait.
Koschej: I hate waiting. I could give you my word as a Moderator.
InfamousBrad: No good. I've known too many Moderators.
Koschej: Isn't there any way you trust me?
InfamousBrad: Nothing comes to mind.
Koschej: I swear on the soul of my manager, Lightingo Housetoya, you will reach the end unmodded.
InfamousBrad: Throw me the scroll bar.
Ok, back on topic now please.
Koschej
Community Moderator
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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That said, if you think for one second that any MMO with a subscription fee is any different, you are sadly mistaken. Sadly. Here's a sad face for you.
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This made me lol.
(Do mods count as rednames? His name IS red.... if so, First! teehee my first time.)
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As you wish!
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And then, one day, Texas_Justice realized that when Castle was saying, "As you wish," what he really meant was, "I love you."
(Sorry, couldn't help myself. ObOP: Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that we only get two issues this year, too, but with it being late July and only starting to get teasers, I'd already figured that out.)
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Koschej: I promise I will not mod you until you reach the end of the thread.
InfamousBrad: That's VERY comforting, but I'm afraid you'll just have to wait.
Koschej: I hate waiting. I could give you my word as a Moderator.
InfamousBrad: No good. I've known too many Moderators.
Koschej: Isn't there any way you trust me?
InfamousBrad: Nothing comes to mind.
Koschej: I swear on the soul of my manager, Lightingo Housetoya, you will reach the end unmodded.
InfamousBrad: Throw me the scroll bar.
Ok, back on topic now please.
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BAB may have won the thread, but Koschej just took home the gold in the Nerdlympics.
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Keep up the good work on the content development. The news issues are what keep me coming back and I can't believe how much the game has changed for the better in the past few years.
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We're not really paying much attention to where things fall in the calender year, just how much time passes between issues. That's the goal at least.
Are we hitting that goal? At this particular moment, not really.
...
I don't think we're that far behind though. If you look at the amount of things added to the game since the beginning of the year rather than just counting the issue numbers between January 1st and today, there's actually a good chunk of content that you guys have gotten without any additional costs. Probably close to 1 1/2 to 2 issues of content already. There was the mid-issue update for 11 and Issue 12, while not a great deal of new long-term content, was in reality quite a bit of work. We kind of went into I12 thinking it was going to be a smaller issue, but when everything was said and done and we looked back on everything we'd put in there, we realized how much work had really gone into it.
[/ QUOTE ]A perfectly valid answer. When I brought up the schedule I wasn't being pessimistic at all, just longing for a self-aware answer. Which this was, thank you.
For what it's worth, if I get bored inbetween issues I simply unsubscribe until something interesting happens. I obviously haven't seen fit to do that recently, so there you go.
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I'm new to MMOs and games. Do most of them not provide free new content like CoX does with its issues? I note that many DEVS state we're getting FREE new issues etc etc. However, without these free issues I am willing to bet big $ that this game would perish. Also, why is each issue thought of as free? Does our $15/month not help pay for this? It seems CoX has approx 180 000 subscibers and you multiply that by $15...seems like NC Soft is getting a good chunk of change from us and needs to do a bit more than they have this year. Lots of competition on the horizon. I do enjoy this game and will likely stay unless I am overwhelmed with the new games
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"Free" here means at no extra cost. Most other games have you subscribe and pay a monthly fee, in return for which you get to play a game. Whenever a new content pack comes out, they politely ask you to buy it, or not have access to the content it holds. World of Warcraft, for instance, requires you to buy the Burning Crusade if you want to play the things it contains, and it will soon require you to buy the Wrath of the Lich King if you want to play that content, as well.
By comparison, our "expansions" are free, because we don't pay anything extra for them and get them by right of subscription. A player buying the game now isn't going to have to buy I1 to I12 if they want everything in the game. At most, they'll have to buy the GvE pack and maybe the Wedding pack.
Our issues are free because we don't pay for them. We pay for "the game." Free issues are just part of the deal, but more a bonus thrown out to keep us here than a service paid for.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I suspect most Devs do a vanity search for their own name. It's only wise to see what people are saying about you if you're in a position of authority. So in this instance it is literally the case of 'speak of the Devil' (and he appears). Just don't say Castle's name three times in a row or else your fotm gets nerfed!
I also suspect our intrepid (read: compositionally challenged) reporter meant when he said "last free issue of 2008" was "latest free issue of 2008" or "this last free issue of 2008" (as in 'this last Tuesday').
Also, I have Koschej and Nivienne set up their own tabs in Firefox which 'show all posts of this user' from their user screen. So, basically, I have four digests that I follow.
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