actually /sr performs better due to reflexes, and health-based resistance bonuses.... not positional defenses.
and I am still not sure that I consider elec's 41% resistance and huge toxic hole to be superior to /ea's 25% s/l/n defense, 30% to everything else except 6% psi, and 12% resistance to s/l/n/e types. Oh, and a better tier 9. Truthfully I think it needs improvement even more than /ea does cause it's harder to 'fix' it to have reasonable defenses, but I am not going to have this huge discussion again.
The only thing I don't get is...why no taunt in energy drain? I mean...once you energy drain something it's going to aggro you, why not give it a good taunt?
Then again, maybe /EA's 'intended purpose' is to take electric melee and play melee blaster and let the mastermind tank. /ea gets pretty huge benefits from almost any type of buffs.
[ QUOTE ]
actually /sr performs better due to reflexes, and health-based resistance bonuses.... not positional defenses.
and I am still not sure that I consider elec's 41% resistance and huge toxic hole to be superior to /ea's 25% s/l/n defense, 30% to everything else except 6% psi, and 12% resistance to s/l/n/e types. Oh, and a better tier 9. Truthfully I think it needs improvement even more than /ea does cause it's harder to 'fix' it to have reasonable defenses, but I am not going to have this huge discussion again.
The only thing I don't get is...why no taunt in energy drain? I mean...once you energy drain something it's going to aggro you, why not give it a good taunt?
Then again, maybe /EA's 'intended purpose' is to take electric melee and play melee blaster and let the mastermind tank. /ea gets pretty huge benefits from almost any type of buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would love to give energy drain a taunt effect- then be able to slot taunt IO's- chance for psi damage......
Or let it cause damage as well- nothing gets aggro like causing something some pain.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
[ QUOTE ]
I would love to give energy drain a taunt effect- then be able to slot taunt IO's- chance for psi damage......
Or let it cause damage as well- nothing gets aggro like causing something some pain.
[/ QUOTE ]
The second that happens they'll take away the auto-hit portion and turn it into Consume. No thanks.
[ QUOTE ]
and I am still not sure that I consider elec's 41% resistance and huge toxic hole to be superior to /ea's 25% s/l/n defense, 30% to everything else except 6% psi, and 12% resistance to s/l/n/e types. Oh, and a better tier 9. Truthfully I think it needs improvement even more than /ea does cause it's harder to 'fix' it to have reasonable defenses, but I am not going to have this huge discussion again.
[/ QUOTE ]
I also played an electric armor brute. I agree with you that electric armor might not be better. My feeling is that the performance of electric armor is average most of the time, while energy aura has up and down. Energy aura doesn't have extra tricks when it's not working. I think it is a general feature of defense sets to have up and down, just that it is more apparent for energy aura because of the various weakness in the defense.
And btw, thanks for messaging Castle about this thread. We'll see what will happen. There are two stickies in the brute forum. Beside the brute guide and faq, this is the other sticky. If Castle doesn't know the existence of this thread, I'm wondering.... 
[ QUOTE ]
I like energy cloak & conserve Power. Merging the Passive into 1 Passive covering all resistance, thats cool, even double its effect, so its in 20s, not the 10s.
Make the missing power from the merger be another passive or Toggle to Cover Positional Defense.
JJ
[/ QUOTE ]
Ooh, let's merge energy cloak and conserve power! lol
SadysCHICK ALL the Badges! (I can get. 1396)
Full image by David Nakayama
Arc ID 1435: Performing without Annette
Arc ID 7206: Sadystic Tendencies
Arc ID 3864: The Chronicles of (In)FERNIA!
conserve power would be awesome if it was a toggle... they should dedicate a whole patch to fixing /ea, and then call it Not saving the world Energy Efficiently.
Things already done to help Energy Aura:
VEATs
Purple inspirations
Things I'd like to see changed in the set:
Same thing I want for Invulnerability - passives that are are at worth slotting. 12.5% resist would be lovely (with 15% for energy).
Conserve power or energy drain to show up earlier (i.e. - before Stamina does)
Things I'd like to see to help the set outside of directly fiddling with it:
More, decent options for typed defense bonuses in IO sets. Kinetic Combat brings great things to /EA...but I'm having a hard time coming up with anything else.
Resist the urge to nerf Aid Self.
[ QUOTE ]
Things already done to help Energy Aura:
VEATs
Purple inspirations
[/ QUOTE ]
Relying on other passives from VEATs and inspirations hardly is a "fix" for /EA.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Things already done to help Energy Aura:
VEATs
Purple inspirations
[/ QUOTE ]
Relying on other passives from VEATs and inspirations hardly is a "fix" for /EA.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Teammates are NOT EVER a fix to a substandard set. Too many of us solo and those same teammates will make the non-substandard sets even better.
If X > Y then (X + A) > (Y + A)
Be well, people of CoH.
Does adding 15% defense to, say a Fire brute, gonna do as much as adding that 15% to an /EA? I don't think so. VEATs are a great crutch for /EA and I don't see how pretending that it isn't true is required for this discussion.
You guys gotta give the devs more credit than that. You could easily say Tanks and breakfrees are just as useful to blasters as what I mentioned is to /EA...that didn't stop the blasters from getting a buff. Stop being so damned paranoid over a quip.
It is not easy to establish a firm ground that EA needs fixing. In particular, there are things outside of EA that needs to be taken into account. For example, how players slot with IO and HO. This is a cooperative game, so it is expected to leave room for buffs. It is supposed that an EA brute will desire buffs from ice shield, force field bubble and VEAT. Add on top of that, there are different playstyle for brutes.
The whole thread has been focusing on suggestions for fixing, and implicitly assumed that something needs to be fixed. And we're in fact not quite explicit about why it needs to be fixed, and whether it is really necessary. And even if we try to explain, we don't really have concrete quantitative data to back us up.
My personal opinion is that there are things that click with the theme of energy aura, which are not yet incorporated into the set. Please see Section B in the first post of this thread. Most of the suggestions in that section (except B3) are at the level of QoL improvements.
Also, if you look at the thread as a whole(and previous threads), we are basically asking for a trick or two when the mobs are attacking EA's weakness, rather than just taking the hit. I think it is not entirely unjustified.
The problem is to turn /EA into something remotely playable without massive IO investment.
I have be rolling my Night Widow of late, surrently LV42. Also a defense based armor set (which after 40 levels or /EA made me apprehesive) but does it ever blow /EA out of the water in survivability.
Positional vs Typed defense and a much easier time getting those defenses up to a meaningful level without IOs.
The scaling resists based on health mitigates the 2 shot syndrome /EA suffers from.
Elude>>>Overload.
I have been soloing relentless on my NW since I got foresight and never once felt I needed to dip into medicine for Aid Self. +2 Bosses or EB no worries at all. Hell I am actually thinking of dropping Elude as I find I just don't need and hardly ever use it.
On my /EA brute Vicious is a stretch and Relentless a pipe dream. With out the aid self crutch and using Overload for anything over a LT I don't think even Vicious would be doable.
[ QUOTE ]
Things already done to help Energy Aura:
VEATs
Purple inspirations
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither of those things were "done to help" Energy Aura. For that matter, Lucks predate energy aura.
[ QUOTE ]
Things I'd like to see changed in the set:
Same thing I want for Invulnerability - passives that are are at worth slotting. 12.5% resist would be lovely (with 15% for energy).
Conserve power or energy drain to show up earlier (i.e. - before Stamina does)
[/ QUOTE ]
The "passive power problem" is, in general, a wider scope problem than Energy Aura. The simple fact is that given the current way powers are designed, passives are going to be weaker than toggles. And numerically smaller equals lower slotting efficiency. They will always, under this scheme, be "not worth slotting" for a large number of players in the general case.
The conserve power argument might have legs, though: I used it successfully on Willpower. I think a strong case can be made for either of conserve power or energy drain to swap places with cloak (my preference would be energy drain, since it would be at least nominally replacing the damage mitigation of cloak with drain, *and* adding endurance, while conserve power would add endurance efficiency but not replace the damage mitigation of cloak with anything).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Regarding the endurance drain and recovery debuff - one application pretty much does nothing. And it takes a little time for a second application to come through. And then what happens is the mob stops attacking for a few seconds. And honestly, it's like they take a break for a swing. Instead of attacking, they act like they just did, and then attack you again. Energy Drain alone doesn't amount to much.
You can combined it with Electric Melee attacks to actually get some tangible benefit. But that's outside the realm of EA as a powerset being able to do that alone. ELA is great for that because on top of Power Sink there is Lightning Field, and those two can keep mobs floored for significantly longer. And no primary attacks are involved.
I also think that EA and ELA having two identical powers in Conserve Power and Energy Drain/Power Sink is a bit nonsensical. It's not like Fast Healing and Reconstruction, which have profound benefits for survivability over time - the endurance management powers are luxury items, and it seems a bit wasteful for both sets to have them both.
I think ELA should have Power Sink but not Conserve Power, and EA should have Conserve Power but not Energy Drain. In that case each of those two lacking powersets could then reap the benefit of some other defensive measure - instead of getting a second luxury item.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Things already done to help Energy Aura:
VEATs
Purple inspirations
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither of those things were "done to help" Energy Aura. For that matter, Lucks predate energy aura.
[ QUOTE ]
Things I'd like to see changed in the set:
Same thing I want for Invulnerability - passives that are are at worth slotting. 12.5% resist would be lovely (with 15% for energy).
Conserve power or energy drain to show up earlier (i.e. - before Stamina does)
[/ QUOTE ]
The "passive power problem" is, in general, a wider scope problem than Energy Aura. The simple fact is that given the current way powers are designed, passives are going to be weaker than toggles. And numerically smaller equals lower slotting efficiency. They will always, under this scheme, be "not worth slotting" for a large number of players in the general case.
The conserve power argument might have legs, though: I used it successfully on Willpower. I think a strong case can be made for either of conserve power or energy drain to swap places with cloak (my preference would be energy drain, since it would be at least nominally replacing the damage mitigation of cloak with drain, *and* adding endurance, while conserve power would add endurance efficiency but not replace the damage mitigation of cloak with anything).
[/ QUOTE ]
A simple 'shout-out' to the excellent help that is given by the VEATs and Luck inspirations shouldn't be an excuse for everyone to put on their condescension hats and patiently explain to me that 2+2=4. I'm honestly amazed.
On the subject of passives, I agree that they should be weaker than toggles. I don't agree by the amount of that difference. That's for the primary/secondary versions of those toggles. I have no problem whatsover with a passive providing numbers comparable to 'Tough' from the fitness pool.
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the endurance drain and recovery debuff - one application pretty much does nothing. And it takes a little time for a second application to come through. And then what happens is the mob stops attacking for a few seconds. And honestly, it's like they take a break for a swing. Instead of attacking, they act like they just did, and then attack you again. Energy Drain alone doesn't amount to much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Critters recover endurance pretty much the same as we do: 5% every 3 seconds. That's 5 points for minions, 7.5 points for LTs, and 10 points for bosses.
They also burn endurance much like we do, only more for any given attack: players burn about 5.2 endurance per DS of damage, while critters burn 7.0. As a very rough rule of thumb, critters burn about 1.5 eps per (single target) attack they have, or about 4-5 endurance per 3 second interval per attack.
Being drained to zero can significantly impair the damage output of a minion, and usually an LT, for all critters that have more than one usable attack. Critters with more than one usable attack burn more endurance than their natural recovery can power, so zeroing out endurance does in fact significantly reduce their rate of attack. In some cases, it can cut critter damage in half even with no -recovery debuffs combined. In fact, being drained without going all the way to zero can eventually impair any multi-attack critter, although whether it happens fast enough for minions (or at all for bosses) is debatable.
Critters with only one usable attack are much more difficult to impair with drains (without -recovery), however.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Tangent: I would not be surprised if the increased endurance cost for critter attacks is to somehow compensate for any latency between attacks. I can't tell for sure, but it seems like often critters will attack a little randomly, or not necessarily in any discernable order. There's often pauses between attacks - they don't seem to have fluid attack chains, though that could in part be because they don't have many attacks to cycle through, or choose not to use some attacks due to their positioning and placement with regard to their target. So we probably still burn through more endurance over time than critters do.
I have seen some people ask to replace Conserve Power and while other say they like it and dont want it removed from the set. I have an Idea that might please both sides.
1. Decrease the recharge time 600s to 320s
2. Decrease the +EndRdx from 119.2% to 60%, however make it able to slot End Mod Enhancements so we will can use set bonuses and increase the EndRdx%. This is to prevent the power becoming overpowered.
3. Make the power able to accept Defense and ToHit Enhancement and have a base of 10% defense to all. This will help to fill some of the defense holes and this will be a Mind Link/Conserve Power.
Or
3. Make the power able to accept Health Enhancement and have a base of 40% HP. This will be a Dull Pain/Conserve Power.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
[ QUOTE ]
3. Make the power able to accept Health Enhancement and have a base of 40% HP. This will be a Dull Pain/Conserve Power.
[/ QUOTE ]
the Problem with this is that we allready get that in overload.
I'm starting to think that the best way for the set to be "better" with out upsetting people that like CP or energy drain or Energy Cloak is to increase the base values of our defense toggles and resist passives. something small like by 5 to 10%. and add resistance to fire/cold/toxic and maybe even a little psi
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
I'd be very surprised if there were any meaningful increase to the toggle defences of EA.
There might potentially be some small room to move on the resists, though without making them toggles, there's a fairly serious limit to how high they could go, or at least, there is no precedent for them going higher than they are as passives.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3. Make the power able to accept Health Enhancement and have a base of 40% HP. This will be a Dull Pain/Conserve Power.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with this is that we already get that in overload.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is pretty tough to have a good solution for energy cloak and conserve power. They fit the theme of the set, sort of useful sometimes, but not that great in terms of survivability. I don't think dev care much about survivability as players do, I think they focus on concept and design variety.
A feasible way is to shuffle the abilities a little within the set. For example, take the defense out of energy cloak and put it in another toggle, then energy cloak can be truly optional(unsuppressed stealth is still superior than normal stealth). And also put the +max hp from overload to conserve power.(Personally, I don't think it's a big deal that overload already has +hp, as I doubt that you're using overload as if it is dull pain)
I think it is not a bad idea to add +hp component into conserve power, because it will still keep the original function, and simply add more flavor into it. It is better than removing a power and replace it with something else.
[ QUOTE ]
the Problem with this is that we allready get that in overload.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even such a simple thing as taking the health in overload and putting it in the passives, or splitting it three ways amongst overload (such that we don't mess up that existing slotting) and the two passives could make one heck of a difference to the set.
Not perfect, but functional, and one would think relatively easy.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
[ QUOTE ]
I have seen some people ask to replace Conserve Power and while other say they like it and dont want it removed from the set. I have an Idea that might please both sides.
1. Decrease the recharge time 600s to 320s
2. Decrease the +EndRdx from 119.2% to 60%, however make it able to slot End Mod Enhancements so we will can use set bonuses and increase the EndRdx%. This is to prevent the power becoming overpowered.
3. Make the power able to accept Defense and ToHit Enhancement and have a base of 10% defense to all. This will help to fill some of the defense holes and this will be a Mind Link/Conserve Power.
Or
3. Make the power able to accept Health Enhancement and have a base of 40% HP. This will be a Dull Pain/Conserve Power.
[/ QUOTE ]
Should be 'AND', LOL.
It would be interesting to have a power that you can use to max out some of the other /EA benenfits. +def, +hp, +end, and +res by a small amount. Just slot for whatever you want.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
This thread is going to end up being 10+ pages long like the other Fixed /EA thread; it's going to be hard to find suggestions and ideas as well.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, we're not really clear in what ways energy aura is lacking.
[/ QUOTE ]
the most immediate way to show this is to compare to /Electric. EA and Elec are very similar.
Elec gets these things, but EA doesn't
capped mitigation to Energy damage just but taking and slotting powers in the set
significant psionic mitigation
taunt in power sink/energy drain
There's no reason why EA should lack any of those things.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll also just mention if you level up a /Elec and just slot SOs into the build, it will perform quite well. If you tried the same thing in /EA....you'd see something entirely different, performing way less. Compared to even SR /EA is not even up to par with it, but that's another topic considering SR is positional and EA is typed I guess.