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For a scrapper though, wouldn't they just leave the values as is?
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They will most likely have to do something about conserve power, or at the very least, they'll need to carefully consider the set before it gets transferred. Even just that might be enough.
EDIT: who was it that suggested replacing conserve power with something that did the same thing (albeit less powerfully) as drain psyche?
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Actually, it would be interesting to have two conserve powers. /em chuckle. Afterall, it's not really a power that is directly related to survivability. And it's not uncommon to have a power in a powerset that acts like that in a power pool. Two conserve powers might lead to builds without stamina, for example. Maybe it's a bad thing. But anyway, it would be nice to have a power trimmed off during proliferation, then many suggestions in this thread and previous threads can be considered.
And I'm not sure what the community would think about a stealthy tank. One can argue that brutes are not tanks, so a stealthy brute can be a viable playstyle. But I'm not sure about energy cloak on a tank. I guess the tank might like it, but then other teammates would complain. 
Here is Snow's style "reverse quote":
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CoD on Dark tanks is likely to be a good indicator of how tanks would feel about energy cloak
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The situation is a little different though. Dark is mostly a resistance set, so cloak of darkness is optional. If a tank doesn't want to be stealthy, the power can be skipped, or temporarily switched off. But energy cloak is kinda mandatory for energy aura because the little defense would be helpful and most of us don't want to skip it.
CoD on Dark tanks is likely to be a good indicator of how tanks would feel about energy cloak
Now I'll admit, EA is not Dark, an EA tank would probably "Need" a taunt aura to function, but the cloak in and of itsself is not problematic.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
When I went through the previous thread about energy aura, discussion about energy cloak popped out occassionally. In fact, I didn't really say much about it in the summary in the first post.
I'll attempt to pull several arguments together. I find it hard to write it well.
First of all, I'll put it up front, there is nothing wrong with a brute(and also scrapper and tanker) to be stealthy. In fact, being stealthy is a playstyle, which can be very effective depending on the player. Secondly, a player can be stealthy and draw the aggro at the same time. These two things are not really mutually exclusive. It depends on what powers that a character has. (But it is true that you have to work a bit harder to draw aggro if you are stealthy.)
However, there are suggestions to replace energy cloak by something else. Usually, the suggestions were vetoed. The reason is pretty simple: don't take away an existing ability. In fact, this is the very essense of the so-called cottage rule: Even if you don't like a power, there are always somebody who has a use of it.
I think I can understand why some people don't like energy cloak on a brute. I believe we all understand. At a conceptual level, being stealthy doesn't really look like a brutal brute for some people(just some people, not all people). Although, as I said above, you can take aggro and tank even being stealthy, the dislike towards energy cloak is more related to personal preference or character concept, rather than the functionality of the character.
Therefore, I think the issue is not really about energy cloak itself, but rather the set doesn't really give one an option to be stealthy or not. Apparently, you can skip energy cloak, which is an option. On the other hand, you don't want to miss out the defense that energy cloak offers. Basically, you pick energy cloak just because of the defense, whether you want to be stealthy or not. This is quite different from a tanker, for example, who wants to be stealthy. The tanker(except dark armor) will need to take the stealth power pool, or maybe buy a stealth IO, which is really optional.
This post is not intended to make a verdict on energy cloak. Very often, the discussion about energy cloak is something like "remove energy cloak!" And then somebody else will say,"don't touch my energy cloak!" all in caps. Hopefully, people will find this post helpful, whether what I wrote click with what you think or not.
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I know we've talked about +hp on drain before... I think you were a part of the discussion??? (It would have been 4 or 5 "fix ea" threads ago... and my memory has faded somewhat) and such a buff would be scalapble, it'd be self limiting, it'd be brutish, and would genuinely help I'd say that this with +psi def on entropy shield and more energy def... well anywhere really... would be a great change.
Sure it'd be soft against AVs, but that's not the most important point.
I might quibble with the exact numbers, but that's hardly important.
Personally I'd still prefer EG's static values, but I'd be thrilled with this too.
We'll probably have to wait for EA to be ported before it gets looked at though...
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yeah, my original idea was actually for a new power that would give +regen per foe. i still maintain tha castle stole it and made RttC.
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My ideas
1. Turn Energy Drain to a Drain Psyche type power
2. Add +perception to energy cloak
3. Add Psi and Toxic defense ( it doesnt have to be a game breaking amout... Just enough to work with)
4. Increase the defense %
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
I think Conserve Power is a bad idea for Energy Aura, being redundant because of Energy Drain, as well as outclassed by ED in terms of usefulness. Reconstruction would be a much better choice, because of the self-heal, and the additional toxic resistance.
For Stalkers, they are jipped out of Dampening Field by Repulse - that's even worse for them because it's a power that interrupts their hidden status - a staple of the Stalker playstyle.
Energy Aura also does not proliferate well. When it goes to Tankers and Scrappers, they will have the ability to have two Conserve Powers. And we'll most likely see CP removed from EA when it goes hero-side, which means it'll probably be replaced with another effective damage mitigation method. Translation: EA will be better for Scrappers and Tankers than it will be for Brutes and Stalkers.
Drop conserve power.
Keep typed defense but allow positional bonuses to stack with typed.
The out-of-the-box suggestion #2, damage absorption is essentially exactly what I suggested in the stalker forums. I would love to see /EA get this. Seemingly overpowered, it would be metered by the players own defense. In other words, if you got good defense, you will not be hit and therefore not get any heals (which you wouldn't need anyway). A possible use would be to only activate once your defense was sufficiently debuffed by something, or drop all shields and click this power to take alpha or drop shields and click to refill the health tank.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
Conserve Power is the definitely at the top of my list for things to be replaced if the set were being changed. I'm still not sure they'll give EA a straight up click heal, but whatever they decide, I think losing CP is more than some of the other ideas to nix certain powers.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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Conserve Power is the definitely at the top of my list for things to be replaced if the set were being changed. I'm still not sure they'll give EA a straight up click heal, but whatever they decide, I think losing CP is more than some of the other ideas to nix certain powers.
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Boo, I like conserve power.
Keep it please 
Sorry, I like the power too. it's a great concept. but in terms of helping the set, i think it does the least right now, even less than the passives. with stamina, IOs and ed, it's not needed.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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Energy Aura also does not proliferate well. When it goes to Tankers and Scrappers, they will have the ability to have two Conserve Powers. And we'll most likely see CP removed from EA when it goes hero-side, which means it'll probably be replaced with another effective damage mitigation method. Translation: EA will be better for Scrappers and Tankers than it will be for Brutes and Stalkers.
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It'll be interesting to see how proliferation will do to energy aura. Will they remove a power(for example CP)? If they remove a power, will they really give the brute's energy aura a similar treatment? You know, they might just change the proliferated set and leave the original as it is. I can imagine a mini riot if the hero's energy aura can get a click heal, and villains continue to conserve their power.
Every time I think about conserve power in energy aura, it reminds me of force field. Force field has the same knockback implemented in 3 or 4 different ways. Energy aura has endurance management implemented in two different ways, while players are more interested in survivability.
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I think Conserve Power is a bad idea for Energy Aura, being redundant because of Energy Drain, as well as outclassed by ED in terms of usefulness. Reconstruction would be a much better choice, because of the self-heal, and the additional toxic resistance.
For Stalkers, they are jipped out of Dampening Field by Repulse - that's even worse for them because it's a power that interrupts their hidden status - a staple of the Stalker playstyle.
Energy Aura also does not proliferate well. When it goes to Tankers and Scrappers, they will have the ability to have two Conserve Powers. And we'll most likely see CP removed from EA when it goes hero-side, which means it'll probably be replaced with another effective damage mitigation method. Translation: EA will be better for Scrappers and Tankers than it will be for Brutes and Stalkers.
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I don't understand....
repulse knocks everything around a stalker away for 4-6 seconds, possibly more. Plenty of time for a hard-pressed stalker to hit aid self, run away, pop a couple of pills, or be well on their way to being re-hidden.
Are you saying you use repulse from HIDE?? what on earth for? It doesn't do any damage. It's pretty strictly an emergency measure, and really good at it.
I guess I am totally lost as to why repulse is supposed to suck on a stalker?
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Sorry, I like the power too. it's a great concept. but in terms of helping the set, i think it does the least right now, even less than the passives. with stamina, IOs and ed, it's not needed.
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I have to agree with this. Even though I like CP. It is pretty much the weakest power in the set. It offers no extra damage mitigation what so ever. the only thing I use it for now is to help keep me fighting after Overload drops. I'd say this power needs to either have more effects added to it, or the more preferable changed all together. Something that Adds more Def or Rez or even a heal of some sort, or maybe something that gives EA a taunt aura.
ofcourse this would mean I would have to completly rethink my build since I skipped CP till level 49 and took taunt at level 35
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
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Sorry, I like the power too. it's a great concept. but in terms of helping the set, i think it does the least right now, even less than the passives. with stamina, IOs and ed, it's not needed.
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I really think energy protection is a lot less useful than conserve power. At least dampening field you can stack the resistance with tough, so it's something, but 11%.......pfft.
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Sorry, I like the power too. it's a great concept. but in terms of helping the set, i think it does the least right now, even less than the passives. with stamina, IOs and ed, it's not needed.
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I really think energy protection is a lot less useful than conserve power. At least dampening field you can stack the resistance with tough, so it's something, but 11%.......pfft.
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I have to agree with this. Even though I like CP. It is pretty much the weakest power in the set.
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Really? Even weaker than energy protection? I really think that EP is completely useless. At least when Overload is about to drop you can pop CP, or if you get hit with some -recovery and you can't get near an NPC to drain some endurance, CP is very useful.
I kinda like CP, when i really want to be offensive with my stone/ea, I do not like breaking my attack chain to end drain someone/thing unless I am purposely trying to drain all their end....
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I think Conserve Power is a bad idea for Energy Aura, being redundant because of Energy Drain, as well as outclassed by ED in terms of usefulness. Reconstruction would be a much better choice, because of the self-heal, and the additional toxic resistance.
For Stalkers, they are jipped out of Dampening Field by Repulse - that's even worse for them because it's a power that interrupts their hidden status - a staple of the Stalker playstyle.
Energy Aura also does not proliferate well. When it goes to Tankers and Scrappers, they will have the ability to have two Conserve Powers. And we'll most likely see CP removed from EA when it goes hero-side, which means it'll probably be replaced with another effective damage mitigation method. Translation: EA will be better for Scrappers and Tankers than it will be for Brutes and Stalkers.
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I don't understand....
repulse knocks everything around a stalker away for 4-6 seconds, possibly more. Plenty of time for a hard-pressed stalker to hit aid self, run away, pop a couple of pills, or be well on their way to being re-hidden.
Are you saying you use repulse from HIDE?? what on earth for? It doesn't do any damage. It's pretty strictly an emergency measure, and really good at it.
I guess I am totally lost as to why repulse is supposed to suck on a stalker?
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I have repulse for my stalker, and it is great. It really depends how you use it. Yes, you don't run around with it on, just a 'click' on and off to get out of a sticky situation or setup a placate then AS.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
maybe it'd be nice if they just changed it to that then and gave it to Brutes and Stalkers? Click power that gives 1 repluse tick. recharge, 20 seconds. end cost 6 or so.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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Sorry, I like the power too. it's a great concept. but in terms of helping the set, i think it does the least right now, even less than the passives. with stamina, IOs and ed, it's not needed.
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I really think energy protection is a lot less useful than conserve power. At least dampening field you can stack the resistance with tough, so it's something, but 11%.......pfft.
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I have to agree with this. Even though I like CP. It is pretty much the weakest power in the set.
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Really? Even weaker than energy protection? I really think that EP is completely useless. At least when Overload is about to drop you can pop CP, or if you get hit with some -recovery and you can't get near an NPC to drain some endurance, CP is very useful.
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Energy Protection gives you some damage mitigation. what damage are you mitigating with conserve power? But really 11% resistance to energy damge is better than nothing
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
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I kinda like CP, when i really want to be offensive with my stone/ea, I do not like breaking my attack chain to end drain someone/thing unless I am purposely trying to drain all their end....
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not sure why anyone wouldn't want to drain the end out of everything if they can...it atleast slows the attack rates of things you are fighting...even more so if you can get Energy Drain off twice in a fight
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
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I kinda like CP, when i really want to be offensive with my stone/ea, I do not like breaking my attack chain to end drain someone/thing unless I am purposely trying to drain all their end....
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not sure why anyone wouldn't want to drain the end out of everything if they can...it atleast slows the attack rates of things you are fighting...even more so if you can get Energy Drain off twice in a fight
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We're brutes, everything should be dead before you get off a second energy drain or you are doing something wrong. The few occasions where you can get off more than one would be
1) You're pvping and you want to bring down their toggles, and unless it's another melee person, we were already screwed
2) Elite boss/AV/Hero, in which case if you don't have a -recovery, you would have to drain a lot faster and many more times than just twice
Honestly energy drain is no power sink, its not as crippling to npc's and there are few occasions where I would use it more aggressively than my primary. Stone even makes /ea awesome, If i need mitigation ill use fault, conserve power lets me smash endlessly away whenever overload isn't up and allows me to save my energy drain for more dire circumstances.
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We're brutes, everything should be dead before you get off a second energy drain or you are doing something wrong. The few occasions where you can get off more than one would be
1) You're pvping and you want to bring down their toggles, and unless it's another melee person, we were already screwed
2) Elite boss/AV/Hero, in which case if you don't have a -recovery, you would have to drain a lot faster and many more times than just twice
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When I'm solo yes. Everything is dead before Energy Drain is recharged. not allways so when your on a team. My EA is EM/EA. I only have 1 AoE from my primay. and I sure ain't 1 shoting 2 or 3 spawns with it. I'll suck their end and keep there attention thanks.
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Honestly energy drain is no power sink, its not as crippling to npc's and there are few occasions where I would use it more aggressively than my primary. Stone even makes /ea awesome, If i need mitigation ill use fault, conserve power lets me smash endlessly away whenever overload isn't up and allows me to save my energy drain for more dire circumstances.
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according to the real numbers provided by the game. Power sink and Energy drain are identical.
-40 end to target, 30% chance for -100 recovery, +25 end to self per target
did I mention that it has a Taunt component in there too?
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
Well to each their own playing style I guess, and I apologize for the misinformation. I was under the impression that power sink was so much better than energy drain by the endless amount of ela>ea arguments or the everything>ea arguments.
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according to the real numbers provided by the game. Power sink and Energy drain are identical.
-40 end to target, 30% chance for -100 recovery, +25 end to self per target
did I mention that it has a Taunt component in there too?
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I'm not sure about that. When one goes into the detailed power info, the numbers for power sink are as you report, energy drain is, however rather less potent, with the drain component some 33, rather than 40, and with the taunt component absent. Not only this, but I might note that the presence of lightning field significantly modifies the capacity of any drain power. Energy drain cannot be used to persistantly curtail incoming damage. Because of lightning field, Power Sink can.
This is VERY non-trivial. With lightning field slotted with a couple of endmods, all you need to do is sink your foes twice and they're out. If you can survive for the recharge time of power sink, you're pretty much golden.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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We'll probably have to wait for EA to be ported before it gets looked at though...
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Are you saying ported to tanks or scrappers?
I don't think EA would be as broke on tankers because I would assume they'd up the defense values since EA would be a primary for a tank.
For a scrapper though, wouldn't they just leave the values as is?