Wouldn't something simple like changing the 2 toggles from typed to positional make a HUGE difference?
http://www.repeat-offenders.net
35218 - Shocking Developments - Where's Gameamp!?
44395 - Walkin in a Winter Wonderland - Fun and Soloable Holiday Arc.
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I remember when I was young and I had a remote control car. When the batteries went low my car moved slow; however when you recharged the battery it moved faster and was stronger again. Why dont we do this to energy drain? I dont mean slow the attack chain of the enemy, but the movement only and speed up the EA's movement speed. Or turn it into a aura that sucks endurance like hotfeet does damage. Give people a reason to think twice about getting near a EA brute.
Elec - Lightning field/-End, Damage
Stone - Mud Pots/ -Speed, Damage
Invul - Invincibility/ +Acc, +Defense
Dark - Death Shroud/ Damage
Fire - Blazing Aura/ Damage
WP - RttC/ +regen, Tohit debuff
EA- None
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Very good point there Soto! I like it
I like the End aura idea... the stop--imitate Moses parting the red sea---draw endurance animation sequence is kinda blah.
Let us stifle under mud at the pond's edge
and affirm that it is fitting
and delicious to lose everything. ~ Donald Hall
I want to bring a couple things here.
The first one is the "cottage" rule as mentioned in the first post. I think that part of the suggestions in section A(merging and replacing powers) can be handled by the suggestion to enhance energy drain(labeled as B3 in the summary). I understand that the set might not be fixed without having a major surgery. However, it would be the best if we can get around the issue without breaking the cottage rule.
The second thing concerns the theme of the set. I think Daemodand has a good point which I quote here:
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....thematically Force Fields in this game (which is what EA is) use typed not positional Defense (positional means you're agile and dodge incoming attacks, typed means things hit you but just get deflected harmlessly).
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The positional defense is usually associated with super reflexes and ninjitsu. For power sets that use a barrier to deflect attacks, the defense is usually based on damage types. I understand that it is really better most of the time to have positional defense, but it might be a good idea to go with the overall design of the game, rather than going against it. (force fields have both positional and typed defense, such that the buff won't discriminate super reflex)
Another thing about the theme of EA is the weakness in negative damage, which is rarely brought up. There is an underlying theme of (positive) energy against negative energy. Both energy aura and electric armor are energy based, and they are slightly weaker against negative energy attacks. The reverse is true for dark armor, which is based on negative energy, and it is slightly weaker against energy attacks.
I have never ever seen a response on the Devs part on the short comings on EA or ELA. I even sent PMs. I would like to see a QR like were looking into it, or the data mining response, Or even a lolea 
MY gut feeling though is in the next round of Powerset proliferation, When it EA and ELA turn to move. I bet the Devs will devote time in to their issues...Or at least I hope.
NeoSaturn-L50 Kat/Regen Scrapper
Paragon Family Swift
NeoSaturn's Deviations
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I have never ever seen a response on the Devs part on the short comings on EA or ELA.
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There's short comings to Electric armor?
Electric armor has a similarly low immortality line in many cases. In fact, in some environments (High S/L/Fire/cold, low energy) it's meaningfully lower, of course:
Because it's a res set, damage spikes are less problematic, even with lower absolute mitigation, you may well have a lower probability of critical burst damage.
Because it's a res set the absurdity of some tohitbuffs/defdebuffs isn't there to haunt you.
You don't have the psi hole.
You have very effective mitigation by sapping. With properly slotted lightning field and power sink, once you fire off your second drain in a spawn, you'll pretty much have drained it dry. That means that in many cases, if they can't kill you in the cycle time of power sink, they simply cannot kill you. With Hasten, and possibly recharge IOs, you can take that time down to 20 seconds. If you get obsessed you can get it close to 15. That's power.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Thanks Ex for making the thread sticky!
I bet a lot of us are trying out new powersets and VEAT. In addition, there are power proliferation and brutes get SR. I think EA is still a fun powerset, with some nice tricks and more multi-dimensional than SR. Hopefully, a sticky will make this a central place for more focused discussion. And maybe one day, this poor powerset can get some attention!
Perhaps. and this is only a perhaps, datamining has proven that /ea is not underperforming compared to other brute sets?
This could be due to a number of reasons. People quitting when they start to feel like they are underperforming, thus skewing the numbers from 'underperforming' into 'underutilized'.
Or perhaps those who stick with /EA are those that have specifically stuck it out, and learned the tricks and strategies neccessary to make it perform equal to other sets.
It might even be a general preference of players who play /ea towards choosing a strongly mitigating primary. With the amount of endurance enhancement in /ea, no one would think twice about pairing it with SS or SM, both extremely strongly mitigating primaries.
but, for whatever reason, all of the various EA threads have been basically ignored. Not even an 'ea is performing up to expectations' or 'ea may be looked at some day'. In fact, I am shocked that this thread has been looked at with enough authority to be stickied.
When Ice was considered underperforming, a redname came and said it was being looked at.
blasters were paid attention to. and were specifically marked as underperforming.
even stalkers, who were NOT underperforming solo or PVP, were looked at... at least insofar as someone commented on it a while back. it took a long time before they started testing changes, but the complaint was definitely looked at. (if you want underperformance solo, try an earth/ta controller prior to 32)
So this says one of several things;
1) the devs don't care. This is very tinfoil-hattish, since the devs have proven time and again that they DO care.
2) Not enough poor players play /EA for it's underperformance to even be a blip on the radar. This is quite likely, especially considering the fact that 'new' players are likely to quit early or never even try /ea due to all the 'lolea' garbage out there.
3) EA is not underperforming. This is also a distinct possibility, since the number of people who play EA to it's strengths is vanishingly small. Most who try it, try to play it like a fire or willpower brute, and of course, in a role it is unsuited for, it fails and they quickly become discouraged and quit playing.
4) There are changes on the agenda, but it's still in the discussion phase, and no redname wants to touch it for fear of revealing too much or making it seem like they are making promises that they cannot keep. I personally feel this is the most likely scenario, and while it is discouraging (to say the least) to be left in the dark like this, I can totally understand the reasoning behind it. It is also possible that NONE of the suggestions yet 'fit' their ideas behind EA.
so, keep the suggestions coming, those of us that love EA like it is will keep playing, but please try to keep the ea abuse to a minimum, just in case #2 is true. I will be the first to admit that 'elite' players can enjoy even a poor sets (some people had amazing results with fire/fire blasters back during old defiance)
And stop trying to take away our stealth!
This is a great thread.. PM it to Castle. : )
I just re-rolled my /EA after she was deleted 5 issues ago for being lackluster.. and apparently, nothing has changed.
I am going to re-suggest my idea, since it was left off of the fist post.
Combine the 2 passives, and give energy an energy absorption like power that gives regen instead of recovery. It would help soft cap energy defense and increase defense a little, and helps against some of the weaknesses of energy.
I also wouldn't mind losing stealth, it is not needed if energy doesn't have as many weaknesses as it does.
For those that think the the devs don't care about a topic unless they respond, you are wrong. Out of every MMO I have played, this has been the best one for devs listening to the forums. They do read and keep up with the forums, they don't need to respond for them to know what people complain about. And having this thread stickied means, to me, the same thing as a dev saying we know the problem and are working on it.
Dirges
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And stop trying to take away our stealth!
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QFT.
Really, all I want is to combine the passives and add in a self heal. Would be delicious, although I don't know where I would fit it into my build, because building an /EA for softcapped defense leaves very little room to maneuver.
@Bengal Fist - Freedom - Authority SG
Bengal Fist (SS/EA) - Thirt3en (Time/Elec) - Aussi (Elec/Shield) - Potamoi (Water/Time) - Parkr (Staff/Ela)
When looking at the stalker changes in Arcanavilles def spread sheet, its easy to see that both /EA and /Elect are almost 1/2 as effective as all the other stalker sets. Even if /Elec and /EA got the HP bump and no other sets did they would still be very low on the charts.
But... when playing around with the numbers, adding in a self heal of 1/2 the power of Aid self pulled /EA and /Elec back up to par with all the other sets.
Now I am not saying thats what should be done, but I think its an iteresting data point that can be used to frame what sort of bump these sets need. Its not huge. Actually for brutes a Aid self heal amount on a 60 second timer would bump /Elec and /EA up to /Inv levels.
*Edit
Doing some more tweaking I found that if /EA (or /Elec) gets an integration strength regen power they come up to /Inv levels.
So for /EA my solution would be move Energy Drain to level 16 (endurance gain should be one of the prime reasons for picking this set), push energy protection to 28, and add a +regen per each target hit by energy drain. First target hit gets you 75% regen, each target after that gets you 10% regen (fully enhanceable with health enhancers). Mobs suffer -20% regen if hit (along with endurance drain).
*Edit 2 The great thing about the above suggestion... it works great for stalkers also. But I would probably change it to 120 % regen on first target and 5% for each additional target, because of how a stalker is more single target focused.
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
RO Network
The problem is that they have already made it pretty clear that lack of a self-heal or HP buff is supposed to be /ea and /ela's vulnerabilities.
Honestly? I think they should give /ELA a straight 'quick healing' buff. I mean, people heal faster when wounds are exposed to electricity, hell, frogs can regenerate in an electrical field.
/ea's only problem is that they simply didn't stick to theme. repulsion field should be identical to repulsion bomb for stalkers (PBAOE) and brutes don't have any knockdown powers in their secondary at all. energy is all ABOUT knockdown. The actual numbers are actually quite acceptable for the set, it's simply a lack of secondary mitigation save invisibility and a piddling amount of -end that gives 'average' players the fits.
honestly, /ea SHOULD have had power boost. it honestly should have to match the other sets thematically.But castle doesn't like PB.
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honestly, /ea SHOULD have had power boost. it honestly should have to match the other sets thematically.But castle doesn't like PB.
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I'd argue that castle probably dislikes PB for some good reasons, and further, that of all the things that you could do to balance /EA, adding PB would be one of the most difficult to do well.
You'd start off by considering a valid magnitude that doesn't mess up the defence/tohit equation more than it is, then consider which defence toggles will be modified by it (almost certainly not all, but some will have to be or the benefit may be minimal or none) then start thinking about overload, or pool def powers, then about it's effects on different primaries, and non-synergies between that power and either fire or SS (arguably both already counterindicated on /EA) vs. strong synergies with EM.
This is before even talking about PvP.
I am not stating that all shortcomings could not be addressed, but do we really need to take the hard road here? particularly when I haven't exactly heard an outcry demanding this specific capacity...
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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The problem is that they have already made it pretty clear that lack of a self-heal or HP buff is supposed to be /ea and /ela's vulnerabilities.
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A self heal would be GREAT in my opinion. I had to slot my /EA for +regen because when I was getting hit, I'd have to run away and regen the HP back so I could jump back into the fight. I mean honestly, the description/theme for a reconstruction type power on /EA does not have to be the same as on Regen or WP(Stalker).
They could simply come up with a new description/theme for a /EA self heal. Something along the lines of being able to manipulate energy with your auras you can focus the kinetic energy in the air around you to heal yourself. Or something like that. But I cannot stress enough how much the set needs a self heal of some sort.
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But Castle doesn't like PB
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I don't like it either, and I don't think it would help the set much to have powerboost. I think a much more useful power can be put into the set other than PB. And that would throw the set out of wack if you could PB while in overload or just your shields, you'd have a brief moment of "Untouchable"-ness. But that's also true of PFF blasters.
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When Ice was considered underperforming, a redname came and said it was being looked at.
blasters were paid attention to. and were specifically marked as under performing.
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Not trying to be whiner here, but Ice armor and blasters go some sort of attention and were fixed. Why not /EA?
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even stalkers, who were NOT underperforming solo or PVP, were looked at... at least insofar as someone commented on it a while back. it took a long time before they started testing changes, but the complaint was definitely looked at.
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I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. Stalkers definitely needed some love for PvE. Just today I was teaming with several stalkers and the brute on the team kept saying "Man that Fear and that -to hit really helps a LOT! It also stacks great with my RttC!" Stalkers needed some love and they got some, and looks like Castle has some more changes to be made which is great.
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2) Not enough poor players play /EA for it's underperformance to even be a blip on the radar. This is quite likely, especially considering the fact that 'new' players are likely to quit early or never even try /ea due to all the 'lolea' garbage out there.
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I will definitely agree with you on that one. A lot of new players or hell even veteran players don't know what /EA is. I had someone send me a tell "Is that a new powerset they added in i12?" I'm not going to jump to some crazy point and say "SEE! The set sucks so much that people don't know about it!! FIX IT!!"
That's not true. The set needs some looking at, no doubt about that. I have found that the set is not like any other set, you need to learn how to play it to make it work......kind of. Even when you try to make it work as best as you can it still lags behind other sets.
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but please try to keep the ea abuse to a minimum, just in case #2 is true. I will be the first to admit that 'elite' players can enjoy even a poor sets (some people had amazing results with fire/fire blasters back during old defiance)
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I agree with you on that one. The set may not be the greatest, but I still enjoy playing it because for me it's about being unique and I rarely see any /EA players and when I do see them, I send them a tell. I'll probably say "hey nice build, enjoying it so far?"
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There are changes on the agenda, but it's still in the discussion phase, and no redname wants to touch it for fear of revealing too much or making it seem like they are making promises that they cannot keep. I personally feel this is the most likely scenario, and while it is discouraging (to say the least) to be left in the dark like this, I can totally understand the reasoning behind it.
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I REALLY hope this is true. All I can do is hope.
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And stop trying to take away our stealth!
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Yes, keep the cloak, it's great for ghosting, concealment, and the defense helps ....a little.
Edit: I also want to add. I do NOT Agree with some of the points the OP posted. KEEP Conserve Power and KEEP ENERGY CLOAK. It'd be much better to merge Dampening Field and Energy absorption rather than to remove a unique power like energy cloak in addition to a very useful power as conserve power.
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Perhaps. and this is only a perhaps, datamining has proven that /ea is not underperforming compared to other brute sets?
This could be due to a number of reasons. People quitting when they start to feel like they are underperforming, thus skewing the numbers from 'underperforming' into 'underutilized'.
Or perhaps those who stick with /EA are those that have specifically stuck it out, and learned the tricks and strategies neccessary to make it perform equal to other sets.
It might even be a general preference of players who play /ea towards choosing a strongly mitigating primary. With the amount of endurance enhancement in /ea, no one would think twice about pairing it with SS or SM, both extremely strongly mitigating primaries.
but, for whatever reason, all of the various EA threads have been basically ignored. Not even an 'ea is performing up to expectations' or 'ea may be looked at some day'. In fact, I am shocked that this thread has been looked at with enough authority to be stickied.
When Ice was considered underperforming, a redname came and said it was being looked at.
blasters were paid attention to. and were specifically marked as underperforming.
even stalkers, who were NOT underperforming solo or PVP, were looked at... at least insofar as someone commented on it a while back. it took a long time before they started testing changes, but the complaint was definitely looked at. (if you want underperformance solo, try an earth/ta controller prior to 32)
So this says one of several things;
1) the devs don't care. This is very tinfoil-hattish, since the devs have proven time and again that they DO care.
2) Not enough poor players play /EA for it's underperformance to even be a blip on the radar. This is quite likely, especially considering the fact that 'new' players are likely to quit early or never even try /ea due to all the 'lolea' garbage out there.
3) EA is not underperforming. This is also a distinct possibility, since the number of people who play EA to it's strengths is vanishingly small. Most who try it, try to play it like a fire or willpower brute, and of course, in a role it is unsuited for, it fails and they quickly become discouraged and quit playing.
4) There are changes on the agenda, but it's still in the discussion phase, and no redname wants to touch it for fear of revealing too much or making it seem like they are making promises that they cannot keep. I personally feel this is the most likely scenario, and while it is discouraging (to say the least) to be left in the dark like this, I can totally understand the reasoning behind it. It is also possible that NONE of the suggestions yet 'fit' their ideas behind EA.
so, keep the suggestions coming, those of us that love EA like it is will keep playing, but please try to keep the ea abuse to a minimum, just in case #2 is true. I will be the first to admit that 'elite' players can enjoy even a poor sets (some people had amazing results with fire/fire blasters back during old defiance)
And stop trying to take away our stealth!
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My god. I actually ag*cough cough* - agree with Frostweaver - for the most part. I still subscribe to the notion of "lolEA". In fact, I just added lolEA to my dictionary for my reply window. Leave the stealth, thanks. Add some Regen or a Heal. Or unnerf our Smashing/Lethal defense.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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honestly, /ea SHOULD have had power boost. it honestly should have to match the other sets thematically.But castle doesn't like PB.
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I'd argue that castle probably dislikes PB for some good reasons, and further, that of all the things that you could do to balance /EA, adding PB would be one of the most difficult to do well.
You'd start off by considering a valid magnitude that doesn't mess up the defence/tohit equation more than it is, then consider which defence toggles will be modified by it (almost certainly not all, but some will have to be or the benefit may be minimal or none) then start thinking about overload, or pool def powers, then about it's effects on different primaries, and non-synergies between that power and either fire or SS (arguably both already counterindicated on /EA) vs. strong synergies with EM.
This is before even talking about PvP.
I am not stating that all shortcomings could not be addressed, but do we really need to take the hard road here? particularly when I haven't exactly heard an outcry demanding this specific capacity...
[/ QUOTE ]
to quote Jim Croce, "Don't tug on superman's cape, don't spit into the wind. don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger and you don't mess around with slim."
based upon the difficulties inherent in PB, and the unlikeliness of anything coming from even bringing it up, most people would rather just not even start trying to see if it can be added.
and of course, the most useful potential facet of powerboost for an /ea (powerboosted energy drain) is no longer applicable.
I am still in favor of slipping /ea brutes the stalker repulse, and turning it into knockdown for both AT's. I think it would make a world of difference. 2 seconds reprieve every 10 seconds (enhanced) situational might not seem like much, but it's still 20% more mitigation against a lot of opponents.
Oh...and PLEASE give energy drain a taunt effect!
anyone who's seen my history knows I stopped talking about how 'ea was fine' after WP came out. The reason is that willpower is quite capable of having higher mitigation against energy and higher defense against most damage types.
I thought /EA was fine because... before wp came along the bar was a lot lower. The primary competition came in the form of /inv and /stone out of granite, and /ea played well was just as capable as /inv or /stone out of granite as long as they chose different types of mobs.
and then wp came along, and had higher mitigation against most damage types, PLUS a huge amount of regen thrown in to boot.
Clearly, whatever I thought I understood about the way devs balanced powers was completely wrong, because wp is so far ahead of the curve that it's like throwing einstein into a special ed class.
No, I don't want wp performance. WP is so powerful it feels like using a cheat code when you play. but I want EA to come CLOSER to wp performance than it does already. And I want some goddamned answers.
All I want is for some redname to poke his nose in here and say "EA is working as intended" or "EA is being looked at." I don't care about details, I just want to know that we aren't ALL pissing into the wind.
I wouldn't mind the repulse power. Hell, add some damage and a stun component and make it into a mini-nuke on a long timer.
60s recharge
11.856 endurance
15 foot radius
10 target max
1.0 scalar smashing damage
0.64 scalar energy damage
60% chance for Mag3 stun
1 low powered repulse tick (don't want them flying across the map, just a few feet)
hehe, that would be fun.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
I'll stick with my earlier suggestion to add a small +res or +def to all but psi for every target hit with Energy drain. Make it work just like that almost identical power in Ice Armor. Hell you could even make that taunt the targets hit too.
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
don't sell yourself short. make it def to all including psy. electric has it too, why not ea.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
[ QUOTE ]
I'll stick with my earlier suggestion to add a small +res or +def to all but psi for every target hit with Energy drain. Make it work just like that almost identical power in Ice Armor. Hell you could even make that taunt the targets hit too.
[/ QUOTE ]
I use energy drain so much already though, I'm not sure I want to rely on it even more. That means that if I want the extra def/res from energy drain, that means I might need to use it when I don't neccesarily need to refill my end. This, i think, would lead to the power being down with much more frequency when I need it for it's intended purpose, recovering End.
I dunno, just seems like we should be adding/fixing a bad power rather than improving an already good one.
@Bengal Fist - Freedom - Authority SG
Bengal Fist (SS/EA) - Thirt3en (Time/Elec) - Aussi (Elec/Shield) - Potamoi (Water/Time) - Parkr (Staff/Ela)
Dont' get me wrong, I wouldn't mind +def or +res to psi as well >.>
Katan: Based on my experiance with the set, when I'm solo I don't chew through enough end fast enough to need the end drain constantly. And i've built up enough defense that I wouldn't need the sugjested extra mitigation either. currently I run into something my tier1 thru tier8 powers can't handle, i add overload to it.
when I'm on a team, I often need more damage mitigation, especially if I'm taking the primary agro roll. and even with the current recharge time, and my slotting, it's up every 30 seconds. So even with it on auto wouldn't be having and end problem.
unless ya know, your constantly fighting carnies or patrols of sappers >.>
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
My SS/EA build sucks down End like there's no tomorrow. I unfortunately need energy drain for the refill every time it's up. It's because I'm built for softcapped defense to S/L/E/F/C, and to do so I run 7 toggles constantly. Even with a decent amount of EndRedux in all of my attacks, my net end recovery is less than 1End/Sec, with a nice Rage crash thrown in.
It's bad 
My build is actually so tight I'm not sure how I'd fit in the heal I'd LOVE /EA to get, I literally have NO powers I can remove... (Why does weave have to come after tough?)
@Bengal Fist - Freedom - Authority SG
Bengal Fist (SS/EA) - Thirt3en (Time/Elec) - Aussi (Elec/Shield) - Potamoi (Water/Time) - Parkr (Staff/Ela)
I like energy cloak & conserve Power. Merging the Passive into 1 Passive covering all resistance, thats cool, even double its effect, so its in 20s, not the 10s.
Make the missing power from the merger be another passive or Toggle to Cover Positional Defense.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon