[ QUOTE ]
I really think energy protection is a lot less useful than conserve power. At least dampening field you can stack the resistance with tough, so it's something, but 11%.......pfft.
Even weaker than energy protection? I really think that EP is completely useless. At least when Overload is about to drop you can pop CP, or if you get hit with some -recovery and you can't get near an NPC to drain some endurance, CP is very useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
EP is great because it adds an extra layer of damage mitigation, on top of the defense you get. Dampening Field does the same thing, and can be stacked with Tough.
The problem with Conserve Power is that it's completely outclassed by Energy Drain. Not only do you fill up your endurance bar with 2 mobs, you can use it once every fight, and you can also dramatically drain endurance of all enemies effected by it. Conserve Power just effects you, and it's not available every fight like Energy Drain is.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
according to the real numbers provided by the game. Power sink and Energy drain are identical.
-40 end to target, 30% chance for -100 recovery, +25 end to self per target
did I mention that it has a Taunt component in there too?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about that. When one goes into the detailed power info, the numbers for power sink are as you report, energy drain is, however rather less potent, with the drain component some 33, rather than 40, and with the taunt component absent. Not only this, but I might note that the presence of lightning field significantly modifies the capacity of any drain power. Energy drain cannot be used to persistantly curtail incoming damage. Because of lightning field, Power Sink can.
This is VERY non-trivial. With lightning field slotted with a couple of endmods, all you need to do is sink your foes twice and they're out. If you can survive for the recharge time of power sink, you're pretty much golden.
[/ QUOTE ]
so then the ingame numbers that appear on my screen are wrong then?
ofcourse lightning field helps with keeping foes from recovering end. so does ball lightning...but really it's not the point
*Edit*
I checked again and the info displayed for Energy Drain does say -40 end the same as power sink. It doesn't have the taunt component though. However when I mouse over the power in the manage screen so it shows me what the enhanced value is. the base there is reporting 33. I exited the game back to my desktop 2 times switching from opening energy drain first then power sink. even had one open on one computer and the other opened on another. didn't matter which power info in game says it should be -40 end to target.
the only time it said anything differend was when i checked energy drain on my 50 EA brute. it reported ~66 which is expected since he has all but the endmod/acc of efficiancy adapter sloted in it.
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
[ QUOTE ]
the base there is reporting 33. I exited the game back to my desktop 2 times switching from opening energy drain first then power sink. even had one open on one computer and the other opened on another. didn't matter which power info in game says it should be -40 end to target.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds odd...
Every time when I go to the in game enhancement/powers detailed info page and inspect power sink, I see 40, every time I look at energy drain I get 33.
Given that it seems possible for the game to give you two different values... yes I guess by definition SOMETHING that you're seeing on your screen is wrong... though I conceed that nothing is established as to which is wrong just by seeing the difference.
Accordingly: Find a level 46 or 47 minion (others will probably work, these are just the two I tested) and power sink and end drain them with fully slotted level 50 powers. I went to the RWZ to find rikti and nemesis test subjects which I tried each brute on.
The reason I choose these levels is because at this level, power sink will fully drain the foe, while energy drain does not.
That way one doesn't have to try and decide just how much end is left on a foe's bar. Gone is gone, not gone is... well, they still try and hit you.
Accordingly I submit that:
<ul type="square"> [*] The general player impression is accurate
[*] The data on the power/enhancement screen, either accessed by mouse over or by "view details" is the correct data.
[*] Energy Drain is the inferior power, although that may not be intentional.
[*] You have found some innacurate in game data.
[/list]
EDIT: Just thinking about it: It's very very unlikely, but just possible that each foe tested decided to attack right at the moment I drained/etc. Were this the case the attack used might have varied, and power consumed could have been a factor. I've been unable to produce different results, but Ideally I'd do this on a foe that could consume no endurance.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really think energy protection is a lot less useful than conserve power. At least dampening field you can stack the resistance with tough, so it's something, but 11%.......pfft.
Even weaker than energy protection? I really think that EP is completely useless. At least when Overload is about to drop you can pop CP, or if you get hit with some -recovery and you can't get near an NPC to drain some endurance, CP is very useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with Conserve Power is that it's completely outclassed by Energy Drain. Not only do you fill up your endurance bar with 2 mobs, you can use it once every fight, and you can also dramatically drain endurance of all enemies effected by it. Conserve Power just effects you, and it's not available every fight like Energy Drain is.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see no "problem" with conserve power VS energy drain. With energy drain I've gotta break my attack chain to drain endurance. The 11% from EP is not "great" by any stretch imo. You can't stack it with anything. Like I said, the only upside with DF is that you can stack it with tough so it's at least somewhat decent mitigation. With EP, 11% is just 11%. Not much at all.
[ QUOTE ]
<ul type="square"> [*] You have found some innacurate in game data.[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]
What I think I found is a Bug. Either in what the in game numbers report in the power info window or what the power is actually doing.
Ofcourse I would prefer that it's the latter.
I've decided I should get some screen shots and send them over to Castle. If the Info should say 33 then the text should be fix and if the power should be doing 40 then that should be fixed don't you think?
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
Yup, I certainly agree that you've found something that needs fixed.
Unfortunately I think it's a little unrealistic to hope that the power might be re-examined due to the consideration of one bug... but you never know.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
I took some time to do a little diging and grabed some screen shots for this energy drain numbers descrepency.
what I found is, the numbers shown for the details in the manage screen and character creation show that it has -33 end drain to target. and the Number shown in the Info Window are -40 end drain to target.
anyway here are the screens I got.
Manage Screen Detail
Manage Screen Popup tip
Character Creation Screen
Info Window
Info Window - With Enhancements
and for reference
Power Sinks Info Window
If you look at the numbers from the manage screen details and the tool tip pop up they are the same as what is shown in the info window when the power is enhanced.
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand....
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt that.
[ QUOTE ]
repulse knocks everything around a stalker away for 4-6 seconds, possibly more. Plenty of time for a hard-pressed stalker to hit aid self, run away, pop a couple of pills, or be well on their way to being re-hidden.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the problem, it forces all the mobs away from you, so only has use when things have gone bad. Melee sets don't need powers which force all mobs away from them.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying you use repulse from HIDE?? what on earth for? It doesn't do any damage. It's pretty strictly an emergency measure, and really good at it.
[/ QUOTE ]
You hit the nail on the head. You really aren't confused. Which is the reason I am not sure about the feigned ignorance above. It's not a power you can make use of, except as an emergency measure. That's it's problem.
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am totally lost as to why repulse is supposed to suck on a stalker?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I don't believe you really are lost on the matter, you just hold a different opinion than I do. I think it sucks because it only has value as a last ditch effort power - I would prefer a power that's good all the time. You prefer it because it has value as an emergency measure.
[/ QUOTE ]
But, as has been noted numerous times in the past, lots of sets have last-ditch emergency powers.
I like playing my claws/ea stalker right at the edge of survivability. That means that last-ditch effort comes up a LOT for me, and at the very least, my last-ditch power (usually repulse+aid self) does not require I gain debt to use it, unlike some other set's last-ditch power.
Admittedly it's not as team-friendly as some other emergency powers, and I will avoid using it on teams. But it sure beats the hell out of revive.
I'd take Revive over Repulse, though admittedly I'd prefer Reconstruction over either - by miles. 
[ QUOTE ]
I took some time to do a little diging and grabed some screen shots for this energy drain numbers descrepency.
what I found is, the numbers shown for the details in the manage screen and character creation show that it has -33 end drain to target. and the Number shown in the Info Window are -40 end drain to target.
anyway here are the screens I got.
Manage Screen Detail
Manage Screen Popup tip
Character Creation Screen
Info Window
Info Window - With Enhancements
and for reference
Power Sinks Info Window
If you look at the numbers from the manage screen details and the tool tip pop up they are the same as what is shown in the info window when the power is enhanced.
[/ QUOTE ]
Energy drain is supposed to do -recovery to foes? What the hell?
Yes, there is a 30% chance of -recovery for 4 sec.
It looks like the info in the power management screen is ok. For the info window, the window with the enh is also right. The info window without the enh is not right. But I wonder why the info window without enh(the 4th hyper link) is blue in color, which looks like a hero window to me.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, there is a 30% chance of -recovery for 4 sec.
It looks like the info in the power management screen is ok. For the info window, the window with the enh is also right. The info window without the enh is not right. But I wonder why the info window without enh(the 4th hyper link) is blue in color, which looks like a hero window to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
4 seconds of -recovery seems kind of "meh", in my opinion. I haven't even noticed the -recovery "icon"/little dark blue circles on an enemy.
You know when overload crashes, you have those same dark blue circles spiraling around your character, I haven't seen those on any NPCs or players in PvP. And like I said 4 seconds is kind of "meh". As far as I'm concerned the -recovery doesn't exist.
yeah it's pretty much non existant...iirc power sinc has the same 30% chance for it. just that lightning field adds to it.
if also notice alpha, you don't allways see the yellow target reticle for tohit debuffs, or the red dimonds for damage debuffs on NPCs either...but that doesn't mean the effect didn't hit
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
The thread starts off with various ways to fix energy aura. However, we're not really clear in what ways energy aura is lacking. I don't really mean specifics like no psionic defense, as there are sets that have similar weakness but they are fine. I'm thinking about some general feelings about the set.
You're welcome to write your own. If you like, I do have some specific questions that you can follow:
1. Do you think that energy aura is gimped or broken? Or is it simply under-performing when compared to other secondaries? Or do you think that it is terrible just because it is defense-based?
2. What do you think about energy aura regarding:
a) overall powerset design(do you like the theme of the powerset? Any bad design in the set?)
b) survivability in real in-game experience(any problems with AV, large teams, or specific mob groups that nail energy aura too easily? Feel free to express your own experience)
c) IO slotting(how easy it is to softcap defense, or to patch up the defense holes? Is energy aura ok out of the box with simple slotting or do you need to dedicate more resources in slotting energy aura than other powersets?)
Actually, most of these questions are implicitly answered or being mentioned in the thread. Just that the information is usually embedded with some other things, it would be nice to have a list of issues, and then a list of suggestions.
The biggest things that energy aura is lacking, from MY understanding (I do not agree, but That's just me)
No reliable way to softcap defenses
It is possible to softcap a couple of defenses, s/l specifically, but it is VERY expensive in terms of IO sets, and 'survivability' can be problematic in large teams.
No secondary mitigation
7.5% resistance to 4 damage types in 2 passives is hardly effective secondary mitigation. several missions that have enemies with high ACC are literally unplayable even on lowest difficulty settings.
No aggro control
while it is totally possible to keep from gaining too much aggro, it is NOT similarly possible to grab aggro when you have too LITTLE. That means that the fury mechanic is almost worthless on an /ea brute unless you get certain, very specific powerset, and by doing so you decrease your survivability below a certain threshold.
a possible solution that could potentially address all of these problems-
replace energy drain with 'energy leech'. something more akin to drain psyche. With an aggro component that can be enhanced. Electric aura already has the whole 'draining opponents dry' thing sewed up, let's give /ea brutes something uniquely their own that will allow them to do well in comparison.
I don't have any idea why we are still discussing this. No dev has even the slightest interest in improving or even looking at EA. To them it's working as intended.
I think instead we should be looking at getting the most mileage we can out of the set until broadsword for brutes comes out and makes it one of the best combos in the game for fighting cimerorans.
Why, so we can have two non-stacking defenses?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have any idea why we are still discussing this. No dev has even the slightest interest in improving or even looking at EA. To them it's working as intended.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I know, Frostweaver.
I bet energy aura is more or less working as intended from the dev's point of view. There is a lot of difference between powerset designing and players' expectation, as players spend hours on their toons and develop a passion on them, while the dev can be pretty cold on the issues we suggested. I'm not really surprised if energy aura is not being looked at. But who knows, we never know dev's plan. 
I'm just giving the thread a kick, and keeping the thread alive. I know that we're just repeating the same thing over and over again, maybe a little different perspective every time. I still think that this is a great resource when energy aura will be proliferated in the future.
[ QUOTE ]
However, we're not really clear in what ways energy aura is lacking.
[/ QUOTE ]
the most immediate way to show this is to compare to /Electric. EA and Elec are very similar.
Elec gets these things, but EA doesn't
capped mitigation to Energy damage just but taking and slotting powers in the set
significant psionic mitigation
taunt in power sink/energy drain
There's no reason why EA should lack any of those things.
EA also lags behind Elec because it doesn't have lightning field to make the end drains more effective (as Arcana showed), so it should have other mitigation to bring it up to par.
So you have to do 2 sets of buffs.
1. to bring regular numbers up to Electric's level (minus end drains)
2. some other (preferably non-DEF oriented) mitigation to bring it up to where Elec and all the other secondaries actually are.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
<QR>
My suggestions:
1) Keep the two resistance passives, but give them scaling defense - an exact copy of the SR passives, but with the defence and resistance swapped over. That would allow for continued slotting of resistance sets, it would give the continual benefit of some resistance, and it would also help the set as a whole.
OR
2) Give the mez protection shield a Fast Healing level of regeneration.
AND
3) As well as doing one of the above, on the exotic damage protection toggle, give +Res(Toxic), on the S/L protection toggle give +Def(Psi)
[ QUOTE ]
I bet energy aura is more or less working as intended from the dev's point of view.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not so certain that /EA is working as intended... It might be more accurate to say something more along the lines of:
All brutes are so fundimentally strong when measured against (some metric or other) that even the weakest amongst them is still high up on the curve.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
yeah, Spiritchaser. But I don't really want to say it out.
Ok, I'll try and keep my semantics to myself
for at least a day...
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Well, Castle said he'd take a look at the thread, but he said he couldn't really comment at this time :/
maybe I should have PM'ed Posi instead. Although I do really appreciate Castle's being willing to look at it.
I gotta say, how many other MMO's do you know of where the guy that is in charge of one of the core mechanics of the game will actually take the time out to PM a personal reply to a question like this?
And this is the reason that even if/when champions mmo comes out, even if I decide to go play it, I will still keep my subscription to this one
level 38 DM/EA here...
Main problem I have with /EA is that it's working in a very different way than other brutes:
- Stealthy
- No aura and thus difficulties to keep aggro
- Not really suited for playing semi-tank
- No secondary effect (just pure defense)
The only benefit I see is that it's damage-based defense can be enhanced by IO sets at a relatively cheap cost (unlike /SR).
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand....
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt that.
[ QUOTE ]
repulse knocks everything around a stalker away for 4-6 seconds, possibly more. Plenty of time for a hard-pressed stalker to hit aid self, run away, pop a couple of pills, or be well on their way to being re-hidden.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's the problem, it forces all the mobs away from you, so only has use when things have gone bad. Melee sets don't need powers which force all mobs away from them.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying you use repulse from HIDE?? what on earth for? It doesn't do any damage. It's pretty strictly an emergency measure, and really good at it.
[/ QUOTE ]
You hit the nail on the head. You really aren't confused. Which is the reason I am not sure about the feigned ignorance above. It's not a power you can make use of, except as an emergency measure. That's it's problem.
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am totally lost as to why repulse is supposed to suck on a stalker?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I don't believe you really are lost on the matter, you just hold a different opinion than I do. I think it sucks because it only has value as a last ditch effort power - I would prefer a power that's good all the time. You prefer it because it has value as an emergency measure.