Discussion: NCsoft and Vivox Voice Chat
By
Anarchist_Kitten,
Posted on: 2008-05-13 15:13 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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For most users, we know that when we Alt-Tab (or minimize one program and then maximize another) there's always a chance for a fatal crash in the CoH client.
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Most?
Not my experience at all. Out of the group of people I regularly play with, and the various other friends and PUGs I've run with, the only ones crashing due to alt-tabbing are a) Mac users running CoH and Vent on their XP partition and b) Vista users. Those 2 groups don't seem to qualify as most.
That's not to say the game itself doesn't lock up/crash on occasion (more frequently recently it seems), but that seems to happen regardless of alt-tabbing or not.
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For most users, we know that when we Alt-Tab (or minimize one program and then maximize another) there's always a chance for a fatal crash in the CoH client.
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Most?
Not my experience at all. Out of the group of people I regularly play with, and the various other friends and PUGs I've run with, the only ones crashing due to alt-tabbing are a) Mac users running CoH and Vent on their XP partition and b) Vista users. Those 2 groups don't seem to qualify as most.
That's not to say the game itself doesn't lock up/crash on occasion (more frequently recently it seems), but that seems to happen regardless of alt-tabbing or not.
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ATI users too.
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thats going to be the rub...unless there is a master recording of all channels....how do you prove the 12 year old with the microphone is dropping every F-bomb word combo he can think of over voice chat?
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Why would someone want to "police" voice chat? Treat it the same way you do text - if you don't like what someone's saying, slap them on Ignore.
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Concurred. This will be a great tool for my SG and coalition/ friends/ allies... but on PUGs, I'll be a bit more reluctant to use it, for the sake of sanity and/ or matureness.
But granted, if I'm the team leader of a PUG and someone starts thinking that "spamming the chat with f-bombs" is cute, I'll give him a boot to the head.
I also think this is a bad idea. Since voice chat was added to WoW, I've found various occasions where I've been KICKED from a team because I do not have a microphone and even if I did, I would not wish to do voice chat.
There are many third party voice chat programs, when a company makes it "official" even if it's via just the "NCSoft Launcher" that still makes it "mandatory" to some players.
While I don't particularly care for voice chat. I have used it with friends and am not *against* it per se.
What I am against is if it becomes something that must be running (even if not used) in the background or eats up bandwidth (even if not used) causing it to impact game performance.
Case in point: Wentworths/Black Market - I love IO's and I mostly like the WW's idea. However, once it was implemented, it pretty much destroyed the performance of my old machine anytime I got with 500 yards of the building.
Yes, I know that's a symptom of the massive numbers of players all sitting in one spot and not WW's itself, but you get the idea.
WW's was a nice idea, but implemented badly (make the store itself a seperate zoned instance and not a general map area to get rid of the huge bandwidth requirements for player position/info updates as I go by), and I'm just worried about integrated voice chat (in the launcher or not, the data's got to be transmitted) causing similar performance problems.
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
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Considering that we've had the Alt-Tab crash since for ever... I doubt it will ever get fixed, which means no PlayNC launcher or voice clients for us.... ever.
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Well, since Windows XP. I Alt-Tab all the time in Win2k, and never have it crash. Unfortunately, Win2k has performance issues when dealing with fire or dark effects.
You can get around the Alt-Tab issue by running Co* Windowed (Menu > Options > Graphics and Audio > Screen Resolution, set to Windowed at the bottom of the list). Although, you will lose some screen space to the borders.
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thats going to be the rub...unless there is a master recording of all channels....how do you prove the 12 year old with the microphone is dropping every F-bomb word combo he can think of over voice chat?
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Why would someone want to "police" voice chat? Treat it the same way you do text - if you don't like what someone's saying, slap them on Ignore.
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Because at some point one of the game companies will get sued over not policing the voice chat channels. You can bet on that law suite happening and when it does it will likely kill supported voice.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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thats going to be the rub...unless there is a master recording of all channels....how do you prove the 12 year old with the microphone is dropping every F-bomb word combo he can think of over voice chat?
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Why would someone want to "police" voice chat? Treat it the same way you do text - if you don't like what someone's saying, slap them on Ignore.
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Because at some point one of the game companies will get sued over not policing the voice chat channels. You can bet on that law suite happening and when it does it will likely kill supported voice.
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Because it happens on Xbox Live every day? Because the same thing happens to telcos all the time?
So if I get a bomb threat call, I can sue the telco for allowing it to happen?
Really, if I get an unwarranted call, or something lewd, I'll disconnect. If it keeps happening, then I'll get the law involved.
Likewise, if a player were to continually harass me on a voice chat, I would get an admin involved or send a petition to a GM.
It's being reactive instead of proactive. I'm sure there will be a reactive Reporting mechanism. As for a proactive solution, no one wants Big Brother "wiretapping" every conversation they're having.
Plus, it all depends highly on the writing of the EULA. "You consent that this service is as-is", "You may report violations of the EULA using this feature", "You consent that your conversations can be monitored at any time", etc. EULAs help protect a company from frivolous lawsuits.
But really, all of this is just speculation based off of a fuzzy press announcement. No one will know for sure until we can see the system.
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I also think this is a bad idea. Since voice chat was added to WoW, I've found various occasions where I've been KICKED from a team because I do not have a microphone and even if I did, I would not wish to do voice chat.
There are many third party voice chat programs, when a company makes it "official" even if it's via just the "NCSoft Launcher" that still makes it "mandatory" to some players.
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This is pretty much how i feel about it. I have mental images of the days when my friends use to play CS (some still do) or what ever game on their Xboxes, and you get every idiot in the game ranging from 12 year olds who think they are awesome to 40+ year old guys who just act like [censored].
3 of the SGs i belong to us TS VERY often, and we love it but only because were a close nit group and have been playing together for almost 4 years.
There are enough 3rd party voice options out there (TS, Vent, Skype ect..) that are free and easy to use.
Iv seen this happen before, they integrate voice chat and some people feel that means you HAVE to us it, personally i don't want to voice chat with the millions of n00bs i run across in Atlas every day, that would just ruin the game for me.
With the groups i play with, we never exclude someone who doesn't want to use TS with us, and we never force them to. But over time, 99% of them choose to use it with us - because its fun, not because were forcing them to but because they know us, and it just adds another element to the game. But i have a feeling that with this being part of the NC Launcher, it will become "mandatory" from the majority of the player base.
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Always Allow/Disallow Mystic Fortune Prompt!
PCSAR
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(seriously, who isn't on vent, TS, skype, etc. by now?)
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Me. If I wanted to hear people's voices, I'd call them.
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Amen. I've only used voice chat once or twice in other games, and found it to be a highly unpleasant experience. I have absolutely no interest in voice chat, and won't be using it. Ever.
First, as someone has said, any kind of roleplaying is immediately out the window. Second, the big argument is "These people can't type very well". In my experience, they can't speak any better. Third, one of the first things I do when I create a character is shut off the broadcast chat channel because I hate reading the inane zone-wide nonsense; why would I ever want to listen to it? In fact, in the past, when I've joined groups that are all on voice chat, I have quit the team.
So, for those wondering who wouldn't want this, you can add my name to the list. Completely and utterly uninterested.
I guess I'll throw my .02 inf in on this..
Sounds like something i might like to use with my friends in the SG. pug's not so much. no doubt there will be elitist teams out there saying you must have voice to team with them, but heck, I wouldn't have teamed with those people anyway..
the playNC launcher, have it still, since Tabula Rasa beta.. it hasn't been a problem for me. plenty of options for downloading or running it.
I think it is a good decision to offer this.
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I guess I'll throw my .02 inf in on this..
Sounds like something i might like to use with my friends in the SG. pug's not so much. no doubt there will be elitist teams out there saying you must have voice to team with them, but heck, I wouldn't have teamed with those people anyway..
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Perfectly put. If they won't team with you because you choose not to use the voice chat, you didn't want to play with them anyway. Reminds me of the first FF defender I played who got kicked for being a defender that couldn't heal, or playing a Kin who got kicked for not being able to rez. I'd just rather not play with dunderheads like that in the first place.
Lvl 50 fire/rad troller Wantonya - Infinity
Too many other alts and servers to bother counting
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Plus, it all depends highly on the writing of the EULA. "You consent that this service is as-is", "You may report violations of the EULA using this feature", "You consent that your conversations can be monitored at any time", etc. EULAs help protect a company from frivolous lawsuits.
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Well ... I doubt that EULA's actually protect much against companies being faced with frivolous lawsuits. That's why they are referred to as frivolous. All you need is a complainant, a lawyer greedy enough to give it a try and a judge with nothing better to do than to hear it - and it's on. Companies may not LOSE frivolous lawsuits with strongly worded EULA's, but they do still face them regularly - and lose financially in defending against them. Just look at some of the stuff that makes the news, and remember that there are probably plenty more that never do.
On-topic: There is one thing you can do easily in text chat that cannot be done in voice chat: filter language. You can't just turn off the bad words in voice chat like you can in text chat.
I use Skype with friends, so I already have an avenue for voice chat. I don't want voice chat channels, nor do I want to chat with complete strangers. When I play with a non-voice enabled teammate, I try to ensure that I include them in as much conversation as I can. Generally when I do it, so do my teammates who are on voice chat with me. Sometimes, even when we are on voice chat, we make silly jokes in team chat, or we use the text emotes.
Even without integrated in-game voice chat, there were already plenty of WoW guild recruitment messages "requiring" Ventrilo for membership. And they continue, even with the integrated game chat (which was just awful for me, incidentally - underwater sounding garble). I don't know if adding voice chat to the game will cause that same thing to happen in CoH if it isn't already happening everywhere now (I do understand there are exceptions to the rule, but it doesn't happen frequently to most of us). I would like to say I don't think it will, but I'm quite often totally incorrect 
I probably won't use it. I already have a mechanism for voice chat which I use when I want it.
Storm
Serenity is not freedom from the storm, but peace amid the storm ...
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Because it happens on Xbox Live every day? Because the same thing happens to telcos all the time?
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Not the same as a telco, the thing that puts an MMOG at risk is that they police the text chat channels and take harrasement complaints etc. So they will either need to police it all or police none of it. And because they have opened themselves up by policing the text channels it is only waiting to happen.
So long as the game or the game company doesn't provide the voice channel they are fine. Ie, team speak, skype itc.... there can be no expectation that the game company can police that. But if it is provided as a resource by the game then watch out.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Seems like a waste of time, resources, and bandwidth to me. I imagine most of the chatterbox types that go for this sort of thing are already using programs so they can do it, so I don't see the need for adding this.
I don't use voice chat currently. More options always sounds good. I just wonder what effect this might have on game performance/lag.
I don't even know what this is going to do, if anything, or how it would impact game-play for those who use it. I know a lot of people are reading this and hoping they'll get some very good in-game tools, and I hope they're right.
Unfortunately folks, we're living in an age where convenience and the 'now' factor is more prevalent than ever before. Any modern game you'd care to look at even casually is promoting simpler crafting, faster advancement and voice chat over typing, all for the sake of convenience.
This has largely come out of the influence of console games being such a massive market, and it's hard for MMO's to ignore this if they want to compete or grab their share of the market.
Do I agree with it? yes and no. Yes if the people you talk to are people you're friendly with and you can have a reasonable conversation with them.
No because it's distracting and a lot of chat goes on that's really unnecessary or even boring. I'm not a loot or gear person, and I often have to slip the headphones off while such chat goes on, playing as I do in LotRo as well as here.
But, as internet-based telephony becomes the norm and the average user gets access to broadband connection, games will be under pressure to use this technology for again, nothing other than convenience's sake.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
I think this is sn awsome idea for this game and cant wait to try it out. I used to play Blackhawk Down with friends at work and we used this service, it made the game alot more interesting, and alot less confusing because you dont have to try to guess what they are going to do next. But yes i would like to know the cost and if you will be talking to the whole team or just one player at a time. I hope it will be on command so you have to hit a button to speak, because i dont want to hear everyones anger when they die or something bad happens. It is going to be a great addition to CoH & CoV.
Lighthouse said :
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As a point of clarification not included in the press release specific for City of Heroes and City of Villains, this new voice chat technology will be used through the PlayNC Launcher and not directly through City of Heroes.
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This means (As I read it), you can chat at the part where you login to your account. Once you select your toon, chat is ended.
I'm ok with that. I would never have a need for it, but I won't cry DOOM at that point.
(This is the DOOM part)
If they DID change their mind, and added it in-game, that would be my clue to cancel the family's accounts. I've played way too many games that have VOIP, and listening to some little 13-yr old belt out a tirade of racial-epithets when they get killed does not appeal to me, unless I can ban their account right there. By the way, in the games I [u]USED[u] to play with VOIP, we ran our OWN servers, and turned it off. Here, NCsoft runs the servers, so they would have to monitor/record every conversation, and ban accordingly. This would drop their user base significantly, just based on some of the crap I've seen typed. I can only imagine what they said out loud, and would rather not hear it.
Lighthouse, I'm gonna hold you to your word here.
I used to list my 50's here, but now there are too many, and I don't think anyone cared in the first place :P
it goes through the launcher and then its in the game....... the whole time your in the game til you turn it off....................................
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Lighthouse said :
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As a point of clarification not included in the press release specific for City of Heroes and City of Villains, this new voice chat technology will be used through the PlayNC Launcher and not directly through City of Heroes.
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This means (As I read it), you can chat at the part where you login to your account. Once you select your toon, chat is ended.
I'm ok with that. I would never have a need for it, but I won't cry DOOM at that point.
(This is the DOOM part)
If they DID change their mind, and added it in-game, that would be my clue to cancel the family's accounts. I've played way too many games that have VOIP, and listening to some little 13-yr old belt out a tirade of racial-epithets when they get killed does not appeal to me, unless I can ban their account right there. By the way, in the games I [u]USED[u] to play with VOIP, we ran our OWN servers, and turned it off. Here, NCsoft runs the servers, so they would have to monitor/record every conversation, and ban accordingly. This would drop their user base significantly, just based on some of the crap I've seen typed. I can only imagine what they said out loud, and would rather not hear it.
Lighthouse, I'm gonna hold you to your word here.
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Before you hold him at his word, make sure you've got his word right. I take his comments about the NC Launcher/CoH client to simply mean that the chat runs in the background while you play via NC Launcher, not that starting a game kills voice chat. It could be you're right and I'm wrong, but you should definately clarify what's promised before deciding whether or not people keep their word.
"Trust me, it worked in the Simpsons." - Calash
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Ah, how fickle is fandom.
For years we have taken comments like, "Gosh, you know what would make this game better? Voice! Just like that Other Game has." Now that it's coming, we get complaints of doom and assertions that voice is unnecessary and threats to quit.
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Actually there is a solid group that every time this comes up steps up to say it isn't a good idea. Many of those same people are here posting in this thread. Basically I have never had a positive experience in an MMOG using voice with random strangers. My experiences have varied from Meh to downright fleeing and not looking back at the group.
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Yep, everytime I've seen threads in the past brought up about voice there was a good portion that were against the idea. Not sure what you were reading that makes you think the word "fickle" applies.
Now that it has been announced as a reality, even more will come out against it, but that's to be expected. Some people don't get upset about something until it becomes real.
Once again they've announced something with sketchy details. Right now I'm very much against it, but more info would be nice. I've always thought voice might be good some day, but the tech to do it really well wasn't quite here yet and I'd rather not see it in-game until it can be done well. As in lots of control, different voice modulators, text to voice and vs. versa (although the voice to text would be extra hard I'd say so I wouldn't hold them to that). Will take a lot to get me on board, but maybe they'll surprise me.
I think there's some serious over-reaction going on here. I've played WoW and DDO, both of which have integrated voice chat. No one used the integrated voice chat in WoW, as the people who liked the idea of voicechat were already using TeamSpeak or Ventrillo.
More people didn't use the voicechat, in my experience, in DDO, than did. I also didn't have a microphone for the longest time so I couldn't talk when my guild used voice chat. No one cared. But 90% of the pick-up groups I joined didn't use the voice chat function. At all. They all typed.
I seriously doubt that there will be rapant kicking from teams for refusal to use voice chat. I seriously doubt that voice chat will be "forced" upon anyone; closing the NCSoft launcher, or muting the voice chat, will put an end to the voice chat.
You won't be hearing everyone in the zone. Since they're integrating it into the launcher, I'm assuming there will be chatrooms, or something like that, and you won't have to go into them.
Basically, I think most people are over reacting, and there will be no expectation or requirement to use the voice chat. Turning it off won't instantly ostracize you from every group, or even most groups, or even a significant number of groups.
Chill, people.
Of course, there is the chance that it will be implemented horrendously and we'll hear all 20,000+ concurrent CoX subscribers, along with all the multiple dozens or hundreds of thousands of other people playing NCSoft games creating a cacophonous sea of unintelligible, roaring voices until we all go mad as if we had gazed upon the face of Great C'Thulu himself.
But I really doubt that.
Virtue 50s:
Ice/Ice Blaster, Fire/Fire Dominator, Mind/Emp Controller, Shield/Axe Tanker, Spines/Regen Scrapper, Rad/Pain Corruptor, Petless Thugs/Traps MM(WHY!?), Widow
A zillion alts on Virtue and elsewhere.
I dont like hearing people talk online Its not athrill and I dont want to be bothered either. Typing is just fine else talking to teen agers or <shiver>younger does not thrill me either