Discussion: PAX- Seattle Aug 29-31st

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Just would like to point out that many of the people that don't have a problem with the in-game freebie that NC is giving away to people that attend PAX are also people that are going or think they may go to PAX.

I just wanted to point that out.

Edited to say many instead of most.

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I don't care about this item and I am not attending PAX. Happy?

Maybe the DEVS can make the many unhappy people happy by offering a new costume pack which would include the PPD Hard Armour suit and some Freaks gear. Throw in some new armours and items and you have enough for a new pack. Just make sure these are actual costume sets and not toggle costumes

There. Problem solved. That is all.

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I was planning on being there - until I realized just how little the Dev's care about the Meet and Greet. Last year Posi blew it off to speak on a panel. This year, they can't even make the effort to find a venue.

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Shut yer hole. Ex Libris has been busting her butt working with the community, those of us who live in Seattle, to find a suitable venue. Try reading the Community tracker to see all the posts about it. Not to mention the plenty of PM's that you're not privvy to.

Ignorant posting for the lose.

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While it does seem that the person you replied to was uninformed, being rude wouldn't really help the situation. There are much more tactful ways to handle these kinds of situations, which are usually more likely to elicit the desired response. As opposed to just starting a name-calling flamewar, or something.

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Posi's situation was that Jack was supposed to be there, but couldn't make it because his wife was having a baby, and Posi had to go do the panel instead.

Understandable circumstances methinks.

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Yeah, I think so. O_o

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I was planning on being there - until I realized just how little the Dev's care about the Meet and Greet. Last year Posi blew it off to speak on a panel. This year, they can't even make the effort to find a venue.

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Shut yer hole. Ex Libris has been busting her butt working with the community, those of us who live in Seattle, to find a suitable venue. Try reading the Community tracker to see all the posts about it. Not to mention the plenty of PM's that you're not privvy to.

Ignorant posting for the lose.

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Quoted for truth. I'm sorry but if you think that BECAUSE one person had to do something outside of the meet n greet, they're "ignoring" us? Hello - they HAVE meet n greets.

The only other company I know that is this warm to customers is Valve, recently they had a class of deaf kids come through their studios to tour and then invited them back for a Left 4 Dead lan party.

The people working at NC NC are *awesome* folks - they work HARD for us. We are their bread and butter, they're not dissing us. They're doing their jobs. I felt so priveleged to be talking to Brian Clayton for I dunno how long at the comic con party, it was *magic*.

So, how little they care? How about how little you know.

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Redbone,

I'm sorry you're so displeased with the decision NCSoft has made in offering an in-game power as a promotional item at PAX that makes the recipients characters look like a PPD Hardsuit.

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Actually, I take neither pleasure or displeasure at the giveaway. I am a mostly neutral party, simple because I don't allow my personal feelings either way interfer with a rational reason to take either stance. NC will do as they will do and nothing I or you or anyone says will change that. As individuals we cannot encourage or discourage any action from NC, only in large numbers (thousands) will that take any notice, and even then it's not a guarantee.

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The fact of the matter is, this is the second such item offered at a similar event and apparently, as there was no actual fallout from the initial offering, they have deemed it a useful and worthwhile thing. Personally, I happen to agree, and not just because I work next door to the Convention Center in Downtown Seattle.

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We don't know if there was any direct or indirect fallout (or benefit) from the giveaways. We do know what is said here on the boards, and thus far, it's been negative for parts of the community. However, we have no idea if anyone quit or joined or decided to stay longer because of one of these giveaways. The numbers simply don't exist for anyone to make a claim either way. We're also incapable of saying what the cumulative effect of the giveaways will be, positive or negative. It's distinctly possible that once enough of the items are given out a largish number of peope will give up and quit the game since they don't have an even chance at all the content or even use it as part of their decision making to leave for other reasons ("this was a great game until 'laundry list of things' and the con giveaways...."). It's just as likely that the few who did get one will decide to stay on longer because of it. Again, the numbers do not exist for us to assess.

What we do know is, NC will do as NC will do.

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I'd like to think that if the company continues to hold these sorts of gatherings in various parts of the country, that more people would have access to a similar, yet different in-game item. As this is the second of such offerings, perhaps a patient, wait-and-see attitude would serve some folks better. Or as we have seen in the past, perhaps there will be a universal offering of these sorts of things at a later date. Assuredly, I would love to have an actual costume set of the PPD Hardsuit that could be mixed and matched with other costume items. I'm guessing you would too.

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As a Point of Information: Earlier, it was stated by a redname that they wouldn't be going far past the West Coast of the US because "we're located on the West Coast." That position may have changed, but until it actually shows that change, there is a question of equal access.

More content (assuming it's good content from a quality standpoint) is always a good thing, but it is not up to you or I to tell someone thair feelings on the matter are wrong. We can attack their reasoning, we can attack their stance, we can critique the way they go about it, but we cannot tell them their feeling on the matter is wrong, no more than someone can tell you it's wrong to play because you like badges or PvP or soloing rather than teaming. People play and enjoy the game for different reasons. Anything that detracts from that can be called negative.

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It is a shame that some people have valued this giveaway so highly that it fetches more than a year's subscription to the game on a well known auction site. In my estimation, this is a gross over-estimation of the value of these sorts of things. And yet, I am unsurprised by this, as we live in an instant gratification society whose members, in general, have a major sense of entitlement.

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I predicted the auctions the moment I heard about the SDCC giveaway, and even got fairly close on the price. Yes, that's a foolish amount for the average person to pay, but then again, it's their money, and if they can afford it, more power to them. I would prefer to know that NC intends to eventually release a "powers pack" with all the temp costumes in it for a lower price (20 or 30 bucks for the whole set or some such) but without that, the marketers are going to have a field day making money off NC's players without NC acting to protect their customers (and with no real legal obligation to do so even if one believes they have a moral obligation to do so).

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To close, while I can empathize with your desire to have this in-game item, at the end of the day, it is NCSoft's game and decision. You and I only pay to play their game.

My advice to you : If you feel this strongly about it, vote with your wallet and unsub.

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Again, I personally don't care. If they offered them on the store at a reasonable price, I may well buy them, but beyond that, it's just one more thing I won't have in the game and I'm fine with that. I will however, defend either side against unfair and irrational attacks and call both sides on the problems with their arguments. It just so happens that the "pro" side is using such tactics the most.

I have also suggested that if anyone doesn't like the decision so much, that voting with the wallet is the best option, if enough do so, NC will listen simply because companies want to know why 1 or 2% of their cash flow suddenly vanished all at once.

So, in short, your entire post directed at me, is way off the mark as a reply to me. It's not a reply to me, but a reply to what you hope I was thinking. It may well be a reply to some of the "no" side, and as such has value, but I respectfully suggest you read over my posts in thie thread before replying directly to me trying to ascribe a stance I do not have to me. To do otherwise makes a good post less inpactful since some can read it and dismiss it as being completely uninformed simply because it was uninformed about the stance of the person it's a reply to.

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I was planning on being there - until I realized just how little the Dev's care about the Meet and Greet. Last year Posi blew it off to speak on a panel. This year, they can't even make the effort to find a venue.

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Shut yer hole. Ex Libris has been busting her butt working with the community, those of us who live in Seattle, to find a suitable venue. Try reading the Community tracker to see all the posts about it. Not to mention the plenty of PM's that you're not privvy to.

Ignorant posting for the lose.

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While it does seem that the person you replied to was uninformed, being rude wouldn't really help the situation. There are much more tactful ways to handle these kinds of situations, which are usually more likely to elicit the desired response. As opposed to just starting a name-calling flamewar, or something.

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Chalk it up to my intolerance rising due to the sheer inanity of this thread. Uniformed isn't an excuse when there are more than a handful of her posts available to read in the Community Digest. And, in case you hadn't noticed, there is a flame war already in progress. You're soaking in it.

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So, in short, your entire post directed at me, is way off the mark as a reply to me. It's not a reply to me, but a reply to what you hope I was thinking. It may well be a reply to some of the "no" side, and as such has value, but I respectfully suggest you read over my posts in thie thread before replying directly to me trying to ascribe a stance I do not have to me. To do otherwise makes a good post less inpactful since some can read it and dismiss it as being completely uninformed simply because it was uninformed about the stance of the person it's a reply to.

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As the advocate for what appears to be the negative side, this may not have been appropriately directed at you but, as their surrogate, I felt that addressing you was appropriate. I meant no inference as to your personal stance or feelings on the topic.

In fact, it is completely and totally on the mark in my view for the negative crowd which you are so diligently defending.

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Just would like to point out that most if not all of the people that don't have a problem with the in-game freebie that NC is giving away to people that attend PAX are also people that are going or think they may go to PAX.

I just wanted to point that out.

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The promise of an exclusive has no bearing on my enjoyment of PAX. I paid for my three day pass for PAX months ago, completely unaware that there would be any such CoH goodies involved. What I'm really looking forward to is getting together and socializing with other CoX players. The reason we're being positive in this thread isn't because we're looking forward to lording shiny exclusives over the rest of the players who couldn't make it. Far from it. We're really just interested in enjoying our event.

Also for the record, I'm sure there will be exclusives at the October Bay Area event too. I'm not going to that one, will not get the exclusives, and I'm 100% ok with that too. I wish the people who are going a good time, and am not going to get petty or complain about little stuff.

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So to summarize, you are attending PAX, and you have no problem with the in-game item giveaway.

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Nope, it isn't. In fact, it's has a major, glaring flaw. Limiting Double XP Weekends to just three states would be too many people for the comparison to be correct. For it to be correct, the devs would have to select fewer than 1,000 people IN those three states. Otherwise, it's spot on.

It merely shows the absurdity of the argument it was a reply to. That you can spot that the argument is nonsensical is excellent, it shows you recognize that the argument it’s derived from is also nonsensical unless one has some emotional attachment to the argument it's derived from and is ignoring that fact.

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Nice try, but your example is nonsensical because you're sandbagging. You've selected an example in which there is no credible marketting purpose either stated or implied, and therefore obscuring the issue by changing the perspective of the problem to one of suggesting the PAX giveaways have no purpose.

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Actually, the example was YOURS, I merely extended it to the point in contention to show the absurdity of your argument. And it worked, even you see it a foolish argument to use. but you can't apply that to your own argument because of an emotional attachment to it.

I have also never said the giveaways were without purpose. That is your strawman to beat up on. I have said their purpose is an unnecessary one that the powers that be knew would cause some anger.

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A better example in the same vein would be to redraft your doubleXP example in a way that at least grants a legitimate marketting purpose to a restricted doubleXP period. Suppose NCsoft decides to open a new set of servers in India, because market research suggests that there are lots of Indian players that would want to play on regional servers. To promote the launch of the India servers, they offer any players that want to transfer to them a one-time free transfer of their characters, and for one week after launch, all players on the Indian servers will have doubleXP rewards in effect.

Here, there is a specific marketting purpose to a restricted doubleXP period, and its targetted at a relatively small subset of the player population. But I don't think its some unfair exclusionary reward that unjustly benefits Indians at my expense: in my opinion, that's an impractically narrow perspective.

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Except there IS a marketing purpose for my draft of the arguent, to assist the local economy of the NCNC HQ and to bump up property values. Therefore, my example stands. It's just as good of a marketign reason as the con giveaways have (and in fact is a better once since it has a direct benefit to NCNC).

[qupte]This version of your otherwise broken analogy now correctly proposes the same (or at least as similar as the analogy allows) question: is it automatically bad for NCsoft to grant an exclusive reward to a subset of the player population, even if there is a legitimate marketting purpose to that reward.

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My original version servered it's purpose. you have admitted it is a bad argument. Since it was YOUR argument with a bit of alteration from "Con giveaway" to "doube XP weekend" it shows you can assess your own argument was poorly done. That was it's entire purpose, and you have accepted that your argument was wrong, just not admitted it thanks to that emotional attachment.

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The replies here speak for themselves.

It's great that there are a few generous souls who wish well on those who are lucky/wealthy/have-enough-vacation-time to pick up this gift. I don't begrudge those people, either. If I was at PAX, I'd pick up one, too.

However, yes, every time I see one of those costumes in-game, I will think ill of the company who gave it to some paying customers and kept it from this paying customer -- me. That's just the truth. CoH does a lot of things right, but this is not one of them.

You could make a bigger marketing blunder, I guess, but I sincerely hope you never do. The good news is that it's not to late to fix this one. Offer it for sale for those who can't get it for free. Make money AND good will.

And fire your Marketing department -- immediately.

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Except they are not keeping them from paying customers. Everyone is being given the exact same opportunity here: Go to PAX, get the chance to get the costume. The fact that, for whatever reason people like me and you cannot go does not mean that we are being screwed. It means that we simply cannot fullfill the conditions to get it, which is not the same thing as NCSoft screwing us out of it.

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Question #1: how much would it cost a resident of California to attend PAX on short notice?

Question #2: how much would it cost a resident of Philadelphia to attend PAX on short notice?

Question #3: how much would it cost a resident of Sydney, Australia to attend PAX on short notice?

...

I'm willing to bet that #2 is significantly more than #1, and that #3 in turn is significantly more than #2. Thus, the opportunity is not exactly the same.

PS: Niviene made a new thread to discuss the issue.

Hey Gang,

Just going to pop in here and re-direct, add some insight, and assure you that all this feedback is being recorded and delivered to the proper departments.

First, lets keep this current topic about PAX, we are trying to organize some efforts to get together with members of our Community in the greater Seattle area as well as accommodate people who will be attending PAX with information about our booth, amenities in the area, and who from the team will be attending.

If you wish to discuss the topic of the in game item please join this thread!

To be clear, we have discussed other options or giveaways to the Community, and at this point we have chosen to place our financial resources towards in game development not out of game tangible goods. The cost of goods, production, shipping, etc. gets extremely high for any show we do. Keeping this cost down is the first way we can grow and expand our reach to new shows.

Many people have given good constructive feedback that we can utilize to show what your needs and wants are as a Community, discussions like this can lead to positive changes, so please keep that in mind as you deliver your commentary.

Now we return you to your regularly scheduled discussion about PAX, where there will be at least one car bomb challenge against the king, RoboBug who is our '07 champion.

Regards,

Ex Libris

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PS: Niviene made a new thread to discuss the issue.

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Thank goodness! Now take all this flamebait there so we can get back to talking about where we're gonna drink with the Devs in a couple weeks!

Thank you Ex! I'm looking forward to meeting up with you and other folks at PAX.

Did things work out with Rock Bottom? Or are we looking at a different location at this point?

Thanks Ex. Perhaps Kossy or Niv could take some time to trim the [Concentrated Forumite Bile] off of this thread. Maybe you can use it to spice up some Mexican food.

I would love to be able to go to this but it seems like all the good meet ups are on the west coast. There go my hopes for a Blue Steel Sig

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I would love to be able to go to this but it seems like all the good meet ups are on the west coast. There go my hopes for a Blue Steel Sig

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You can write him fan mail:

NC Interactive
c/o (insert name)
PO Box 390534
Mountain View, CA 94039-0534


Regards,

Ex

Some community members have contacted me about places that may be willing to work with us on the Friday party. This event will be open to anyone that plays COH in the greater Seattle area.

Right now we are still looking at Rock Bottom Brewery and next in the running is Red Robin.

I'll keep you posted as we know more.

Ex

Very cool.

Red Robin could probably work too, as long as they have a bunch of tables and they don't mind us moving them around, so people can chat easily, etc..

Rock Bottom has the microbrews though, and if there's one thing you should do while you're visiting the Northwest it's sample the local beer.

Let me know if Londer and I can do anything to help.

It's been a while since I went back "home" to Seattle, but I seem to recall that Pyramid Brewery also has a "meeting area".

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MURH?!?

Are you talking to me?

Are you talkin' to me?!?

Don't make me stop this car!!!

All your thread... are belong to us!





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Not at all! It was more directed at where the thread had gone, than any individual. You seem to be among the more reasonable and you have a sense of humor so, no. Not directed at you personally.

Plus it looks like Ex cleaned up the mess so it's all moot point anyway.

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Let me know if Londer and I can do anything to help.

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I lift big stuff sometimes. I'm gud at lifting big stuff. Sometimes.

Guys... there's no need to be rude to each other, or the Devs. We wouldn't want to see them so much if they were that bad at community relations. Honestly I want to see them, and honestly that's one of the reasons I was upset.

You never see any of them on the east coast, but I would let them stay at my freakin house if they needed to (Not much room, but I have a couch they can pile on...) to get them into Connecticut.

But onto the first reason I was upset. I'm NOT upset that it's the Hardshell suit, or that it's a halloween-ish thing. That's of no concern to me. I was upset that an In-Game item was being given out at one venue that there is NO way I could ever afford to get to.

It's more of a principal thing for me. There really isn't anything else I can say on this, just because I think it's kind of turned into a flamewar, and I don't want to be part of that.

I'm glad for the people that will get the ingame exclusive, but It would be really nice if somewhere down the line it was made available to everyone. /em shrug

Do we have an approximate number of people that would be attending this M&G? that would have a huge bearing on where we could meet.

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MURH?!?

Are you talking to me?

Are you talkin' to me?!?

Don't make me stop this car!!!

All your thread... are belong to us!





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Not at all! It was more directed at where the thread had gone, than any individual. You seem to be among the more reasonable and you have a sense of humor so, no. Not directed at you personally.

Plus it looks like Ex cleaned up the mess so it's all moot point anyway.

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Figured, but was on an off-kilter mood.
Sad that others missed out on my sense of humor.
Now to go tell the wifey that I'm "reasonable"...

Expecting a bout of laughter in response.

I will now bow out of this thread, since I can't attend PAX and so t really doesn't concern me.

Carry on!

Uh, where is there a Red Robin in the downtown area? South Lake Union?