Issue 12 Discussion: Hollows Zone Makeover
By
Aakan,
Posted on: 2008-03-12 09:27 in Developers' Corner
Their adherence to their arbitrary, lack-luster theme is a constant thorn. Their refusal to work on customer requested zones, is another. Their arrogant dismissal (or at least apathetic dismissal) of constantly requested features, is another.
And, their blatant sophistry. Recently, I was told by a Developer: anyone who could've forseen the need or desire for power customization when this game was made must've had access to a crystal ball, blah, blah. Now, this insults my intelligence in many ways. I'm supposed to believe that, despite the fact that the proto-type of this game included full power choice with no ATs AND the original head-honcho was a Champions fan----that at no time during the 3 years of development was there a point when PC was ever raised? Uhuh, yeah.
My memory stretches back to the time when this game was nothing more than a discussion on a forum. Everything was put out publically and ignored.
We have one person to blame for all of this---and he's not the current head of Cryptic.
All of this aside: what we are continuing to be fed is a series of un-imaginative, stale, 'same as everthing else with new skins' content---AND more of the same Arachons crap we've had to deal with since CoV launched. It's frankly astonishing to me that they think any of us would care.
It's absolutely boring and pathetically designed, IMO.
And, as for 'doing something right'. In the beginning, maybe. No longer.
Cal2
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I play it because
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But we're not talking about why *you're* still playing it, we're talking about why people who have a largely negative outlook on the game are still playing it, aren't we?
@Calibre2:
I can relate, being one of the people in that thread who that particular comment was directed at.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Their adherence to their arbitrary, lack-luster theme is a constant thorn. Their refusal to work on customer requested zones, is another. Their arrogant dismissal (or at least apathetic dismissal) of constantly requested features, is another.
And, their blatant sophistry. Recently, I was told by a Developer: anyone who could've forseen the need or desire for power customization when this game was made must've had access to a crystal ball, blah, blah. Now, this insults my intelligence in many ways. I'm supposed to believe that, despite the fact that the proto-type of this game included full power choice with no ATs AND the original head-honcho was a Champions fan----that at no time during the 3 years of development was there a point when PC was ever raised? Uhuh, yeah.
My memory stretches back to the time when this game was nothing more than a discussion on a forum. Everything was put out publically and ignored.
We have one person to blame for all of this---and he's not the current head of Cryptic.
All of this aside: what we are continuing to be fed is a series of un-imaginative, stale, 'same as everthing else with new skins' content---AND more of the same Arachons crap we've had to deal with since CoV launched. It's frankly astonishing to me that they think any of us would care.
It's absolutely boring and pathetically designed, IMO.
And, as for 'doing something right'. In the beginning, maybe. No longer.
Cal2
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I don't agree with this due to a mountain of contradictory evidence, but you know what, fine, whatever, all I have left to say is que sera, sera.
Cal, makes some points that you are ignoring. Wasting time on redoing the hallows is a waste. Considering there are not enough Strike Forces red side. There is a huge imbalance. You can not argue that. So redoing a hero only zone, is a waste. CoV has been out over 2 years, and only has several zones. So, to me, and apparently others, ANY TIME, they spend on a hero only zone, is a slap to the face, of villians clamoring for more content.
Spin it anyway you want. It won't change those facts. Villians are suppose to be happy they finally get VEATs, I was never worried or cared about them, they came out only a year and half to late. But how hard would it be to add a contact to several zones and add missions to them in the form of a Strike force? I mean what maybe 4-6 new maps. A few lines of text and where on our way. Instead we get a zone, redone, that quite frankly didn't really need it.
Soph
So you'd rather have a generic zone thrown together to up the tally then any quality work?
Have you seen the zone, to talk of quality? I'm asking for new contacts that have Strike Forces. They are in more need red side than a minor zone revamp, in my opinion.
Soph
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So you'd rather have a generic zone thrown together to up the tally then any quality work?
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TFs wouldn't require a new zone, generic or otherwise.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Way back in mid-2006 I made my first Hero and levelled up to 5. I walked into the Hollows and was given a mission in about the centre of the map.
I took a long hard look at six mobs of 10 +3 Trolls gathered around the mission entrance, before I told that old cop guy to find a different idiot to send to their doom. 
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
I just took hover, the first time, and floated over there. Then, on my way, I got up, made a sandwich, folded my laundry, came back to the computer, and guided my way to the door for the second half of my sluggish flight.
Honestly, anyone who says navigating the Hollows is too hard for low lvl heroes is simply doing it wrong. I'm not sure they should get rewarded for doing so.
As for fixing Boomtown within the next three issues, that'd give them... 15 issues to ignore something that sucked and was ignored by players and devs since it started? I'm sure it will get fixed by I15, but my question is, why did it take that long?
Victory
Schattenbolt - Blaster Elec/Elec/Elec
Pierce Steele - Blaster Arch/MM/Munitions
Paragons of Victory
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I just took hover, the first time, and floated over there. Then, on my way, I got up, made a sandwich, folded my laundry, came back to the computer, and guided my way to the door for the second half of my sluggish flight.
Honestly, anyone who says navigating the Hollows is too hard for low lvl heroes is simply doing it wrong. I'm not sure they should get rewarded for doing so.
As for fixing Boomtown within the next three issues, that'd give them... 15 issues to ignore something that sucked and was ignored by players and devs since it started? I'm sure it will get fixed by I15, but my question is, why did it take that long?
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QFT.
Also, more strike forces? What to compliment the ones we don't do already? The only strike forces I've been able to get anyone to do is the respec ones, villain SFs are pointless, we need new zones and good content in them.
And you are still stuck in the mind set of "I WANT WHAT I WANT AND I WANT IT RIGHT NOW!!!" You are going to have to wait till issue 13 or 14, like the rest of us. What villains needs isn't something you can pull out of a magic hat, it's going to take work, and a good deal of it.
(blatantly ignoring the "complaining about the complainers")
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I find it intriguing that people are talking about how much it sucks to have to walk across The Hollows to get to mission doors, and how bad it is to not have a travel power.
BEHOLD!!!
RADIO MISSIONS!!!
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Yes, you are correct. Safeguards and the temp-travel-packs are important.
The sad part is that contacts point new players to the Hollows before they get to meet the detectives in King's Row. It's rather different in CoV -- the moment you leave mercy, the only way you'll gain a contact is to do Newspaper missions and rob the bank.
I'm still hoping that they change the way the contacts work. Introduce us to the King's Row detectives *first* ... then point us to the Hollows.
Yeah, hell playing villains just flat-out depresses me. I don't have one above lvl 8. The people I get missions from make me feel like crap, and don't do much for the self-esteem at all. I got enough of that from High-School. It's also a little weird for me being shot at by people "on the same side", i.e. other Arachnos. I know about the whole rival factions, thing, but they don't even ask me. They're just like, "Hey, you arachnos too? B-ZZOTTT!!!"
Doesn't inspire confidence in the organization at all.
Victory
Schattenbolt - Blaster Elec/Elec/Elec
Pierce Steele - Blaster Arch/MM/Munitions
Paragons of Victory
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Yes, you are correct. Safeguards and the temp-travel-packs are important.
The sad part is that contacts point new players to the Hollows before they get to meet the detectives in King's Row. It's rather different in CoV -- the moment you leave mercy, the only way you'll gain a contact is to do Newspaper missions and rob the bank.
I'm still hoping that they change the way the contacts work. Introduce us to the King's Row detectives *first* ... then point us to the Hollows.
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Yeah, you're right about that. Usually, when I build a sewers team, I make it clear that we stick to the sewers until everyone's at least lvl 6, then we hit KR for the bank mish, THEN we can do Hollows. Most people follow that order of events, and those who don't, we run into later trying to PUG, only now we're two lvls higher and have travel powers. But, they wanted to hit the hollows faster.
I will say that there were times where I did have to stop doing the Frostfire story arc simply because the baddies jump up in lvl dramatically, and I have to street-hunt to compete, and it does irk me a bit when I out-level the missions, but usually, after Frostfire, I leave the zone, never to return. I've never done Julius the Troll past the first mish because I've always been too high to get any decent xp, and it becomes time for me to go to Steel Canyon.
I can't imagine it'd be very hard, though, to re-work the Atlas Park contacts to send you to Detective Frietag or Detective Smiley-guy, and have Wincott as one of the contacts that they give you after the first bank. That right there would go a long way to improving the hollows, and the work doesn't even happen IN the hollows. Just my thoughts, though.
Victory
Schattenbolt - Blaster Elec/Elec/Elec
Pierce Steele - Blaster Arch/MM/Munitions
Paragons of Victory
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I hope they make FF a woman....it's a very feminine name.
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Says you! It's not girly.
It's been stated, relayed by a red name from War Witch, that the Hollows isn't getting the full Faultline treatment. An added vehicle with rez tubes. A detective contact with Safeguard entry point. More variety of enemy groups. Looks as if you still need to zone to sell and level. After all, it's still a hazard zone.
Don't forget that the Hollows was meant to be an alternate and harder path to take instead of Kings Row and first half of Steel and Skyway. The problem now is that if you ignore Kings Row, you most likely not be getting the Raptor or Zero-Gee Packs which would be so handy for the Hollows. These changes fix those problems.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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It's been stated, relayed by a red name from War Witch, that the Hollows isn't getting the full Faultline treatment. An added vehicle with rez tubes. A detective contact with Safeguard entry point. More variety of enemy groups. Looks as if you still need to zone to sell and level. After all, it's still a hazard zone.
Don't forget that the Hollows was meant to be an alternate and harder path to take instead of Kings Row and first half of Steel and Skyway. The problem now is that if you ignore Kings Row, you most likely not be getting the Raptor or Zero-Gee Packs which would be so handy for the Hollows. These changes fix those problems.
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Wait ... are you saying that the new Hollows Detective will lead to Safeguards that award the Raptor and Zero-G?
*runs to find Dev Digest*
edit: only one I found is Lighthouse's post about Meg Mason.
edit2: Oh ... I misread your post. You were suggesting changes that would put the Raptor and Zero-G safeguards into Hollows as a fix.
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Welcome change but I'll be one of the few that will miss Old Hollows. It's one of the only zones left that really provides much challenge and is one way to teach plaers how to navigate safely around spawns w/o grabbing agro. Personally, I think people are getting spoiled rotten with the ease of travel/difficulty and general access to things. I remember when there were no temp travel powers or paper missions..back in my day, we had to Sprint through Grendell's Gulch fifteen miles..both ways uphill..in 4 feet of snow! Surrounded by lava people.
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Hovering!
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Now if there'll only be stores and a Donut shop in the Hollows (hey it worked in Faultline 
)
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...or at least a Donut Tent w/deliveries. 
Those cops have been understaffed and under-appricated for years with no love to show for it. I mean, PPD has been outfitted with Hardsuits now, while Sam Wilcot's Task Force is still using their old riot gear 
.
I'll be interested to see the Hollows now- I know that prior to the safeguard travel powers, I avoided the place like the plague. Now I'm fine with running missions there, once I have the temp power.
But these changes sound like things that really needed to happen to make the Hollows less of a turn-off. It's a pain to have to go all the way back to Atlas to train or make the hospital run. Overall, these changes sound like a good thing.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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i12= best issue ever! I thought it was i11 but that was quickly proven wrong.....
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agreed
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It's been stated, relayed by a red name from War Witch, that the Hollows isn't getting the full Faultline treatment. An added vehicle with rez tubes. A detective contact with Safeguard entry point.
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I must say the detective is a dammfool idea - giving out repeatable missions in the Hollows range in The Hollows will turn it into just another zone where people do radio missions because it's easier than traveling back-and-forth to the contact.
No Bloody Thanks.
Clean up the spawns so it's a hybrid hazard zone. Fix the mission door locations so lowbies aren't sent across half of Christendom. Cut-n'-paste a Safeguard style hospital. (Maybe even add a trainer and/or a store.)
But for the love of all that is holy don't change it into radio PUG hell like every other zone in Paragon.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
Except that's the whole purpose of zone detectives and the concept behind zones like the Hollows, contacts with missions in the same zone.
The addition of a detective and swat truck for transport to the safeguard will allow those players going to the hollows who don't know better a way to at least know about the safeguard rewards and a way to get them. So we have
Hollows 5-15
Faultline 15-25
Croatoa 25-35
RWZ 35-50
Four zones, each with four story arcs, three with detectives, all (soon) with hospitals. A nice streamline path from 5 to 50.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Hollows 5-15
Faultline 15-25
Croatoa 25-35
RWZ 35-50
Four zones, each with four story arcs, three with detectives, all (soon) with hospitals. A nice streamline path from 5 to 50.
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This. Toss in Midnight Squad content at 10 and 35 to supplement, and Tuncer's a happy, happy boy.
Yeah, by all means, lets have a hospital in the Hollows so the poor wittle lowbies don't get sore footsies from having to walk back from Atlas cause this is the City of wittle babies, isn't it? They's so cutesy and cuddlly wuddly! Nothing bad should ever happen to the poor wittle darlings! In fact, the Hollows is far too scary a name for such a happy place!! Let's call it Marshmallow Sunshine land!!!
Pfft!
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...You're still playing the game so obviously they are doing something right.
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What they're "doing right" is having a monopoly on superhero MMORPGs. When CO comes along that will change.
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I play it because there are no Anime themed ones, all the Sci Fi ones suck and as far as customization goes CoH still takes the cake. I don't even read "comic books," the only superhero shows I ever watched were Spiderman, Batman Beyond, Static Shock and X-Men due to the Sci-Fi content.
As far as City of Heroes goes when compared to other MMOs in a pure game vs game sense, it's just a damn good game, lets face it, most other MMOs don't even compare in terms of ease of play and replay value. I don't even know why World of Walkcraft even sells, I guess it's all their damn advertising.