Discussion: Valentine's Day
By
1_800_Spines,
Posted on: 2008-02-12 15:33 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Not enough stuff, but the stuff that's there is very good. Good work, but needs a lower price. That is all.
=^..^=. o O (Nothing to see. Just a cat.)
(_ _)~
*Recipient of a Sentai Sage thumbs up of approval.
..v
(==)b
I am disappointed they are trying to make me pay so much for so little extra content.
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so we have to pay extra for costume/emotes now?
.......
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There is still a full complement of free Issues and content scheduled for this year and beyond for City of Heroes and City of Villains.
This pack is something that we were able to make available outside of our regular release schedule. So, no, you won't have to pay for other new costumes and emotes. We realize that the Wedding Pack won't be for everyone, but hopefully those who are interested in it will find that they like having the option to obtain it.
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Ok that sounds cool I mean I have to admit it did have me and some others wondering. I mean if the pack is "overtime" work then a small fee is cool.
Interesting idea selling an expansion pack.
$10 is way too expensive for a few costume pieces and emotes.
If it was $2 I'd consider it. or even $1.
Why didn't you just put the Event access in with the pack? If you're limiting it to so few people, why not just sell tickets?
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No badge with it? 
-NotPutzing
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There's already one can of worms being opened with charging for costumes and emotes. If they threw in a badge with it, it would open up a whole new can of worms with accusations of trying to extort money from badge hunters.
IMHO, given that they're going to charge for something, this is exactly the right way to have done it. Maybe throw in some kind of prestige power, but certainly not a badge. I didn't like the RMT for the VIP badges, and I wouldn't like it if they did it again.
-TonyV
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This is exactly why I didn't put a badge in this pack.
-Positron
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Actually, there should be a badge. Or does TonyV, Positron, and no one else remember the pocket D vip pack we could purchase which contained a badge? $9.99 for a few costume pieces to niche event or few concept characters, and like wise for 4 emotes? Thats way steep. Sorry but those items don't constitute 10 buck payout in my book unless it includes a special power and/or badge inclusion. Sorry Posi, i love just about every thing you've done for this game, but the badger in me "isn't buying" your logic here. (pun intended)
And IMHO, this costume/emote purchase idea IS opening a whole new can of worms, TonyV. I think they ARE going about it the wrong way. (if the 'right way' is to make money for there hard effort of inventing these items). Including a badge or power would sell more units. It was bad enuff we where starting to pay seperately for unique badges (VIP/Pocket D VIP), now we are paying for costumes too. period.
I dont care how you justify it ....
Thats exactly what this is.
I was reasonably unhappy about this new "Wedding Pack" yesterday. I'm still not thrilled with it. It took me a while to identify why, exactly, I was unhappy though, but I think I have it now.
It is not THAT they are charging for it. They deserve extra cash for working hard and adding "extra" content. I mean, I've never had to pay for one of those big content patches. Many companies would save up a few content patches, call it an "expansion", then make you pay $30-$50 for it.
I bought the VIP pack for $10, and I consider it a worthwhile investment. I get two new armor options, plus I get a power to give my Superspeeders vertical movement and a teleport to Pocket D. This is quite generous. I am all for it.
What I'm unhappy about is WHAT they are charging $10 for. They're gating arguably important roleplay items by cash, and even that, I'm okay with to some degree. But they're offering me a handful of situation-specific emotes and a few costume options.
For the same price, I got a couple useful powers and some snappy costumes. I don't see this "Wedding Pack" as a good value. I hold NCSoft in high regard, and I suppose I "expect better" than this. I'd pay $5 for this, as offered, and even then I might wince a bit. But $10 for a wedding dress, a tux, and a few emotes? Good grief. That's pricey, especially compared with past offerings.
Not to mention that I still have flashbacks to a certain MUD company that decided to charge $100 for GM assisted weddings and spouse-specific emotes. I get nightmares about that, after all this time.
I encourage NCSoft to develop "packs" and charge extra money for them. I like giving them my money. They give me a great game, and a host of wonderful free content with my monthly subscription. But to pay 2/3 of a month's subscription for a couple costumes (with so many available) and a handful of emotes that I might use twice is a bit unreasonable. Give me some meat for that money, and I'll throw it at you in wads.
I'm just unhappy that this seems "unworthy" of them. Not that they want me to pay.
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The wedding pack is fluff, which is why it isn't worth money.
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... except to those who like fluff and are willing to pay for it.
Great post TwistedPixie, I fully support your post. 
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
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well to risk being a Troll, does not matter how much we complain about this, they are going to do it ,and most likely not change the price,the only real way to have ANY impact is NOT to buy it, as in the real world, if consumers stop buying a certain product ,and sales goes down,then and only then will the manufacturer start to listen
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
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This may have been mentioned already (I didn't read through every page) but the price would seem more reasonable if it also included a month of game time like the GvE package did. Charging for "extra" content is a bad idea, IMO.
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The $10 GvE code did not include a month of game-time. Think about it for a moment: one month of play-time commands a standard price of $15, by itself. Why on Earth would they sell you costume parts, emotes, AND that same month of play-time for less than $15? Usually, when you add things to an existing sales option, the price goes up, not down!
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Actually the box GvE does come with a month free, though the online purchase of GvE does not. Just my 2 cents
No DOOM today, DOOM tomorrow. There's always a DOOM tomorrow.
Global: @Kiriko-chan Test: Myskatz Kittens Beta Test: @Plantrezz
Arcs: 5318 ROUS (just a little beat 'em up)
8500 One more time down the Yellow Brick Road.
244321 One more time down the Yellow Brick Road v2
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Looking at the opaque Bridal Veil on the Live Servers, I think it would be cool to be able to have the option to have either opaque or transluscent veils.
It makes for a great funeral/mourning or Goth wedding acessory.
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QFT. It's gorgeous that way, I can imagine the lace but I would love it if it could be both options.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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$9.99 for some stupid wedding clothes and throwing rice emotes....LOLZ!
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Most of those costume pieces are going to be customized into costumes for me after Valentines Day, oh how I see the possibilities.
Hubby didn't know what to get me for Valentines Day.
Now he will. Flowers die. I'll enjoy this for a LONG time.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
On the money issue:
They probably NEED the money. Think about it. They just bought out the game and brought talent back into the fold. I had wondered how they could afford to do that and keep the game afloat on simply continuing sale of GvE and our $13-15/mo fees. I was actually waiting for the next expansion pack. I just didn't expect it to be this (it does seem sparse) or to be this soon.
Bottomline: I think they need an influx of cash to keep the game afloat. I don't see this as a continuing trend.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
I like fluff. And i like expansions like this. $10 is really nothing when you think about it. The money we pay for disposable things these days. Its soda for a week. coffee for maybe 2 days. Lunch out one day. We pay none of the expansions. WOW get $45 for them We pay $10 for to change servers. WOW you pay $20. No one is forcing you to get this. If you don't want or can't afford it. Don't spend the money. Its that simple.
Think of the other possibilities for packs like this.
Wedding Night Pack
Pregnancy Pack
Baby Pack
2.4 Children & Mortgage Pack
Affair Pack
Bobbit Pack
... and of course..
The Divorce Pack (halves your influence/infamy,lose half your enhancements)
@Skolia
So many toons, so little time.
http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/17258
Okay, I bought this for both accounts. Grumbled about the price and complained about it, but bought it. Why? Because I'm a costume addict, because I have a toon about to get married (who has an incarnation on both accounts >.<
, and because I want to support the company.
But, even though I *did* shell out the $20 for this, I want to go on record saying it was overpriced. Next one offered (and I bet there will be more), could you cut it a bit? $5.99 seems more appropriate for what was included.
When I loaded up the costume pieces, though... -beautiful- work. More please! More stuff like this, but for free? Though a tip on where to *find* these pieces would be nice.
(Hey, and where's our Roman armor? PLEASE don't make that a vet reward... >.> Sorry, had to slide that one in. ^.^)
Rather than retype what others have already said, I'll just copy and paste the points I was going to say:
*The separate-color lace pattern on the skirts is beautiful. It is a crying shame there is no top that can be matched with them. I understand that there's a UI limitation on tops w/skin and a 2nd color. But if we can't get around that, can we at least beg a regular top with the same lace pattern, one that is two-colorable, for making that as a dress? It'd make a great steampunk look.
((In my case, it's that I have a catgirl with a specific patterning that doesn't work with any "with skin" costumes. Pleaseplease make the pattern available without the "with top"?))
* Both male and female, the Bow Tie is available with Jackets, but not with Sleeveless Jackets. Is this a bug?
* My gut instinct is that not even the most garish prom tux would have the lapel color match the waistcoat color. What I wish Jay had done instead is use a texture to darken the lapels, but otherwise leave them the color of the jacket. The pocket square should match the waistcoat color, but not the lapels. (Although speaking of the lapels, nice geometry on these!)
* There are issues with recoloring the inside tail of the Tuxedo as in it's not possible to do unless you force the color to copy across the whole toon.
* Looking at the opaque Bridal Veil on the Live Servers, I think it would be cool to be able to have the option to have either opaque or transluscent veils.
--Virtue--
My 50s:
Tigra Swipe (BS/SR/Dark Scrapper)
Galena Storm (Emp/Ele/Ele Defender)
Master Tolarin (Psi/Fire/Force Blaster)
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All new content is going to use similar gameplay to what's come before;
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Honestly, that would be fine with me if we had anything more than "run missions."
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I'm really curious to hear what, exactly, you would consider "new."
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This is a dangerous question, but I'll answer with the following condition: don't jump on specific items and start a whole tanget about how that specific idea is bad, impossible, etc. The larger point is that there should be SOMETHING new for us to do that is not just the same "run missions" content. If not ideas like these, then SOMETHING.
<ul type="square">[*] Completely new tilesets that are not just a reskinned warehouse. The famous "moon base" idea, possibly with different gravity (you jump higher and farther, and fall slower) would be awesome. You could make moon environments actually feel and play different.
[*] Factions. Implement faction tracking so you can improve your faction rating with groups like the Crey, Malta, Freedom Phalanx, etc. You can raise your faction with a group by 1) running missions for them, 2) "defeating" foes of their most hated faction(s), 3) Street sweeping in a zone that is important to them, 4) Other. The benefits of faction would be access to additional costume options, a faction shop with weapon customization options and temp powers, FUCTIONAL items for your base, etc (buyable with influence, not Yet Another Currency Type like merits, salvage, prestige, etc.).
[*] Open up the base system to more people by converting the current smallest plot to a "lair" that everyone can have, and a permissions list where they can "share" it with other characters if they wish. This would let people have a shared lair without having to form a SG for it. The base system is actually pretty good, but not enough people have access to it.
[*] After the above is done, invest a lot of time and effort into improving and enhancing the base/lair system. The core of an awesome feature is here. People love "player housing", and since WoW has dragged their feet on this issue, creating good player housing makes good business sense.
[*] Give people a way to affect the game world. Possibilities:
1) If you street sweep enough in a given zone, make one of the statues change to a stone image of YOUR character. The tech exists for this, as they claimed they wanted to do it long ago. Every zone has a number of statues. The could dynamically change to whoever "arrested" the most mobs in that zone in the last say, 4 hour period. Every hour, the data from 4 hours ago would drop off, making it possible for someone new to come along and change a statue to one of their character.
2) If you defeat enough of a certain mob type in a zone, it would trigger some kind of interesting event. Perhaps an "army" of that mob type appears with a number of EBs and or AVs leading it. Defeating this "army" and its leader would result in any mob of that type that spawns in the zone for the next X hours to stand in the "afraid" position until attacked. Also, the EBs and AVs would have (at least) double the normal inf/xp for their type, and contributing to the defeat of the AVs would have a high chance of a random rare recipe from ANY pool (including tf/trial), or even a higher than normal chance for a purple recipe.
3) I could list more, but the general idea is let people feel like they are making a mark. Even if it is temporary and only lasts a few hours or days.
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Again, I am not saying those specific things "have to" happen. Those are just some possible things. They would be new ways to actually play the game other than just "run some missions."
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On the money issue:
They probably NEED the money. Think about it. They just bought out the game and brought talent back into the fold. I had wondered how they could afford to do that and keep the game afloat on simply continuing sale of GvE and our $13-15/mo fees. I was actually waiting for the next expansion pack. I just didn't expect it to be this (it does seem sparse) or to be this soon.
Bottomline: I think they need an influx of cash to keep the game afloat. I don't see this as a continuing trend.
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Given NCSoft's latest financial numbers, (coincidentally, just released today...) I don't think that's the case; for the 4th quarter of '07, their net profits were up 18% over the previous year. They're not exactly floundering.
But if they can find new revenue streams for the game, and that encourages them to put more money into the game, then I'm all for that.
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Think of the other possibilities for packs like this.
Wedding Night Pack
Pregnancy Pack
Baby Pack
2.4 Children & Mortgage Pack
Affair Pack
Bobbit Pack
... and of course..
The Divorce Pack (halves your influence/infamy,lose half your enhancements)
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The Divorce Pack, however, does have a perm-temp power, a pet that spawns the moment you log in and cannot be dismissed called "Your Lawyer." He has several postures "gettign paid", "on retainer" and "actively pursuing the case"). These postures don't actually change anythign but how he stands around behind you and his NPC chatter. He follows you around and subtracts 30% of all your influence and prestige earnings, takes every third drop and says things like 'wow, that guy assaulted you, we should sue" but otherwise doesn't really do anything. Once every 3 months, he does "sue" some baddies and that opens up the "go to trial" missions, where you sit in a courtroom for 3 or 4 hours for weeks at a time. These are timed missions, and if you leave or decide not to run them or cannot get to the mission before the special "time to mission start" timer runs out, you fail and are held in contempt, costing you some influence and XP. You have to do these missions for about a month. Two years later, the case does get settled and the appeal missions are done and you get a massive influence award, which the lawyer pet divies up to legal fees and his charges, leaving you with about 10 influence.
Now that's a value pack for 10 bucks, costumes ("Good Suit/Dress" options, wooden barrel costume), temp power, emotes ("Anger while on the phone," "looking over legal briefs," "testify," and "write large check to lawyer") and special missions with two or more arcs (trial, and several appeal processes).
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Think of the other possibilities for packs like this.
Wedding Night Pack
Pregnancy Pack
Baby Pack
2.4 Children & Mortgage Pack
Affair Pack
Bobbit Pack
... and of course..
The Divorce Pack (halves your influence/infamy,lose half your enhancements)
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The Divorce Pack, however, does have a perm-temp power, a pet that spawns the moment you log in and cannot be dismissed called "Your Lawyer." He has several postures "gettign paid", "on retainer" and "actively pursuing the case"). These postures don't actually change anythign but how he stands around behind you and his NPC chatter. He follows you around and subtracts 30% of all your influence and prestige earnings, takes every third drop and says things like 'wow, that guy assaulted you, we should sue" but otherwise doesn't really do anything. Once every 3 months, he does "sue" some baddies and that opens up the "go to trial" missions, where you sit in a courtroom for 3 or 4 hours for weeks at a time. These are timed missions, and if you leave or decide not to run them or cannot get to the mission before the special "time to mission start" timer runs out, you fail and are held in contempt, costing you some influence and XP. You have to do these missions for about a month. Two years later, the case does get settled and the appeal missions are done and you get a massive influence award, which the lawyer pet divies up to legal fees and his charges, leaving you with about 10 influence.
Now that's a value pack for 10 bucks, costumes ("Good Suit/Dress" options, wooden barrel costume), temp power, emotes ("Anger while on the phone," "looking over legal briefs," "testify," and "write large check to lawyer") and special missions with two or more arcs (trial, and several appeal processes).
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OMG lmao
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I find their to be a difference between paying for new content, and paying a
subscription fee. Take your own advice.
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So if you subscribed to Newsweek, you'd be fine with them also charging you cover price for the magazine, right?
Seriously. I am begging you. Think before you post.
The subscription fee is what you are paying to get new content.
P.S. Love the avatar.
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This is a dangerous question, but I'll answer with the following condition: don't jump on specific items and start a whole tanget about how that specific idea is bad, impossible, etc. The larger point is that there should be SOMETHING new for us to do that is not just the same "run missions" content. If not ideas like these, then SOMETHING.
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Oddly enough, quite a few of the things you mentioned were, to a greater or lesser extent, in the last few issues.
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Completely new tilesets that are not just a reskinned warehouse.
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What about the rikti base tile set in I10? Admittedly, it's the only new one we've seen in a while, but it is a new tileset.
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Factions. Implement faction tracking so you can improve your faction rating with groups like the Crey, Malta, Freedom Phalanx, etc. You can raise your faction with a group by 1) running missions for them, 2) "defeating" foes of their most hated faction(s), 3) Street sweeping in a zone that is important to them, 4) Other. The benefits of faction would be access to additional costume options, a faction shop with weapon customization options and temp powers, FUCTIONAL items for your base, etc (buyable with influence, not Yet Another Currency Type like merits, salvage, prestige, etc.).
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That pretty much describes the Vanguard merit system in I10; you do their missions, you street sweep against their most hated faction, and you earn "points" with them that can get you costume items and temp powers. It's true, they're re-using the salvage system to track your "standing" with the faction, but conceptually, the idea is the same. As to using inf, well that's more arguing with the implementation of the idea. (To a lesser extent, I11 could also arguably be said to include "factional" content, with working for the Menders. It's not as extensive, but the story seems to indicate that there's more to that to come.)
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Give people a way to affect the game world.
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Again, this has been done. When you finish the LGTF, a full zone invasion gets triggered somewhere. Before that, you have RV, where the landscape changes as you secure control points.
These are minor things, and certainly not as extensive as you seem to want, but they do give the lie to the idea that these things are completely ignored by devs. The devs are working to give us great new stuff, and accomplished a lot in 2007, especially in the form of systems that can be built on in the future. Saying that IO's are the only new content to come in the last 3 issues is just irresponsible flaming.
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So if you subscribed to Newsweek, you'd be fine with them also charging you cover price for the magazine, right?
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Would you say that's what WoW does by charging for expansions and charging a subscription fee?
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I only made it about 8 pages into this absurd thread.
It seems a lot of people are up in arms about the payment portion of this new Wedding Pack.
You don't want to pay ten bucks for some very highly detailed and obviously laboriously crafted costume pieces?
Don't.
I've already bought mine, because they are very nice looking. People will always be willing to pay for things that are well made and aesthetically pleasing. Sexy Jay scored big on this one, the veil issues notwithstanding. The emotes are gravy.
Lighthouse has already said that this is not a precedent for all future costume pieces and emotes, but I'll go even further back than that. This has already been set as a precedent. The GvE pack was the same way. I got a whole mess of HeroClix in my DVD copy of CoV. People will always pay more for cool stuff. People that want every single shred of the cool stuff handed to them, free of charge, are dreaming.
This game has given me so much cool play time, ten bucks is a pittance to give for some more of their hard work.
Thanks NC^2. Keep the cool stuff rolling.
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You know, it just hit me, this is the second (and seemingly lesser of the two) Valentines faux pas the devs have made.
Remember the "get a friend to buy CoH/CoV get costume items" firestorm from two years ago? Admitted, on scale, this is a less intense fire, but it does feel mildly familiar. What is it about Valentines Day and costume items together along with the Devs doing something new that does this?