Gotterdamurung

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I think this "hammer space" is the biggest cop-out ever... not showing ur weopon is retarded lol.

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So... I just want to be clear here:

You're complaining that if a flying hot pink giant minature cat girl with goat legs and dragon wings wants to beat up a huge, mutated, ambulatory sentient mushroom with an enormous flaming sword twice her size, having her pull the sword out of nowhere is totally unrealistic?

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If I were Recluse I'd wonder how I ended up in the only dimension with a "good" Statesman

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But it's to LR's benefit to be here. At least with a good Statesman who upholds the law and has to follow "the rules" LR has already carved out a reasonable powerbase and can continue working on plans.
When you have to spend all of your time fighting off opponents who are just as powerful and ruthless (if not more so) as yourself, you don't really have time for empire building.
Cooperation is rare in that kind of environment.

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A very good point. Tyrant and Reichsman not being constrained by morality, I'd bet that the Recluses of those worlds were beaten to death with their own detached limbs fairly early in their super-villain careers.

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I thought he said "Type-R", as in a racing reference?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type-R


This interpretation wins for me.

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So, race cars?

Does that mean Posi was talking about programmers who are good at overhauling engines?

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This expansion is heresy, and this forum shall be cleansed by the righteous firepower of the Imperial Guard.

Expect Exterminatus in the next ten minutes.

For the emperor!

(P.S.: Doom~!)

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You see, you add a shield defense set, allow it to be paired up with broadsword, and this is what you get.

That's why I'm so worried about dual pistols. You let people start making large breasted female toons with dual pistols, and I guarantee you, the next thing you know, all the forum's ancient temples will be ransacked, and all our priceless relics will be looted.

It'll all end in tears, I tell you.

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From looking at the first GR video (and thanks for the second one, btw) I think Tyrant broke Perez Park!

Burned down the maze and put the capitol of the world in it's place

The FIEND

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Huh.

Well, then, maybe he's not so bad...

If we find out he installed cheap and effective mass transit for the Praetorian Shadow Shard, I might just have to join up after all.

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And hey, where the hell is my [color=orange]moon zone[/color}???

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The moon zone is not what you think it is. Very appropriately, it butts up right against King's Row. They decided to utilize that blocked off entrance on the back end of the zone. I just hate to think of what problems will rear their head with it.

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Really, I think it's about time th--huh... wha?! Eww, you got orange all over me!!

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I lol'd.


Oh, god! It's spreading!!!

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Going Rogue will be the end of CoX

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You mean Jack is coming back?


DOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM indeed

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Am I the only one who thinks it's no coincidence that the main villain (as far as we see right now) of the expansion designed to combat CO just happens to be the evil version of Jack's in-game persona?

Good idea!

In fact, to take it one step further, I'll go ahead and post a form complaint, so people can just fill in the blank:

This is the worst thing the devs have done since _________.
A.) the PvP revamp
B.) ED
C.) kicking my puppy

Instead of wasting their time on this, the devs should get off their lazy butts and finally fix ________.
A.) PvP
B.) Costume parts clipping
C.) Various spelling errors

And hey, where the hell is my __________?!?
A.) (insert power set) for (insert AT)
B.) (moon/space/gothic/rural/underwater/urban/underpants) zone
C.) pony

This game is so phail; they should make it more like _________.
A.) World of Warcraft
B.) Freedom Force vs. the 3rd Reich
C.) Hello Kitty Island Adventure

This game is SOOO going down; everyone I know is leaving for __________.
A.) CO
B.) DCU
C.) Hello Kitty Island Adventure

I'm so fed up with the game, I just _________.
A.) Cancelled my 9 accounts
B.) Put another pin in my (Positron/Castle/BaBs/Dude from marketing) voodoo doll
C.) Set Paragon studios on fire

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I have a question about the reviews, from Venture, or other... this may be answered somewhere in the thread, that I missed, but, how does one avoid the sin of "just a bunch of stuff that happened?" Does that basically mean that the events don't seem connected to each other? Does that mean what initiated them was uninteresting? I'd like to avoid this because it SEEMS bad but I don't know how it's defined.


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As so often happens on these boards, Arcanaville had a great answer a few pages back in this post.

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Just wanted to note that one of the reasons why so many missions (Architect and canon) have no "moral or theme" and are "just a bunch of stuff that happened" is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to write such a story for literally thousands of characters. Done poorly, it can run into power-posing and/or snap a player right out of the story, even make them quit rather than continue.

Consider a familiar question for heroic types: "What would make you break your code vs. killing?" The problems are obvious right off: some heroes don't have such a thing in the first place, and those who do have different thresholds, different answers to that question. If you present me with an arc where one of my more Silver-Agey heroes snaps and wastes a Smug Snake in front of TV cameras, because the clue or mission debriefing says so, that's it - I'm done. I probably won't rate it down because I'm not vindictive that way, but I will not be finishing or recommending that arc.

So, how do you make a story that isn't JABOSTH without taking away a player's control of their character or making assumptions that will probably be wrong at least half of the time?

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You make a good point about forcing your character to behave in a certain way, and that seems to be something that Venture dislikes as well; in many reviews, he's criticized the writer for making assumptions about a player characters motives/morals/background etc.

However, that doesn't preclude having a theme. To go back to your example, if an arc gave you the option to defeat a boss (implicitly killing him) or to let him run away and fail the mission, that could allow the arc to explore a theme without necessarily assuming anything about the player. So, as you say, trying to use the theme "what would make your character break their code vs. killing" would be very difficult (though perhaps not impossible) to do in the confines of the Architect. On the other hand, it wouldn't be very hard at all to write an arc that explored a similar theme, like "is it ever justified to kill a villain" by, say, using an NPC as the character having the moral crisis.

You're right in saying that avoiding JABOSTH is a very tricky thing to do, especially in a system where no assumptions can be made about the protagonist. However, I think Venture's right in placing such a big emphasis on this, because I believe it's critical to writing a good arc. The easiest way to do this is to look at your story and ask youself: "what question is this story asking?" If you're asking a question, you've got yourself a theme. If you answer the question, you've got yourself a moral. If you're really not asking anything, then you've got JABOSTH.

None of which is to say that you always have to have a theme or moral. A comedic arc or an "action movie" arc can usually get by without them. However, you can't write something like that and then expect it to be taken seriously. On the other hand, if you're really trying for drama, then a theme is an integral part of that.

Ultimately, it all comes down to maintaining a realistic and focused grasp on what exactly you're trying to accomplish with your arc. Honestly, if everyone just did that, there are a lot of arcs that would be vastly improved. If an arc feels loosely connected, disjointed, or chaotic, a lot of times it's because the writer didn't have any goal beyond "I want to write a good arc." When you click that New Arc button, you should imagine someone asking you: "What is this arc's reason for being, and what makes it so special?" If you don't have an answer for that, then you need to think about it some more.

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Is it really so far out there to think a major expansion is in the offing?

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Thinking about it is fine. Circulating it as fact is another matter entirely.

Remember the sturm and drang over bases last issue? Most of it was because people took a few comments about big changes to bases blown wildly out of proportion.

After the fact it turns out they were planning to revamp base raiding. That is indeed a big change. However the community meme grabbed ahold of one or two comments and came to expect a full on revamp of how things work for bases, and was very disappointed when it didn't happen.

This is what I'm talking about. People need to hold their horses and wait until something more substantive is released, or they're going to be disappointed.

Because if you recall, that survey you mentioned specifically stated that nothing listed as a possible option should be considered confirmed or even likely. Does anyone remember that (very important) bit? no, they just aggregate it with a bunch of other isolated comments and try to call it evidence, and people who don't spend time looking at this stuff think it's confirmed and get pissed.

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Which is why I was careful to label my post as just what it was: wild speculation.

You're absolutely right about the way these things can take on a life of their own; in fact, that's kind of what I was hoping for: a firestorm of rumor and speculation that would eventually elicit some form of response from a red name.

You say it's been tried before? You say they just don't respond to speculation? You say that wild rumormongering will never produce a good end? Maybe the past speculation just hasn't been wild enough; maybe we've just never come up with a theory insane enough to be refuted; maybe what's really needed here is more wild speculation. So here it is:

Within weeks, NCSoft will announce a paid expansion revolving around a war between an underwater kingdom of Incarnate Avilans with customizable powers and an invading fleet of moon-based Blood of the Black Stream shapeshifters on jetpack ponies.

In fact, all I'm doing is answering the challenge Positron presented in another post:

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Here’s a bit of a teaser: We have big plans for these (and other) badges, and we really want them to mean something to your character. If you are in a dialog tree that involves creating something, we have the ability to look at your badges and see if you have taken the effort to prove yourself as a crafter. This effort would be rewarded with special options in the dialog tree that earn you better results, enable you to skip steps, etc. For this system to work, we’ll need them to be a reasonable indicator of the amount of work a crafter has put into crafting. And it’s not just dialog trees that are going to look at badges, and it’s not just crafting badges that will be looked at, so you guys can speculate away!

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Besides; if people want responsible reporting, reliable information, and useful tidbits, they can read the fine work you guys do on the City Scoop. But for the Yin of that, the forums also need the Yang of people like me: loud-mouthed lunatics spouting whatever drivel crosses our fevered, twisted, little minds.

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Just so it's clear, he said it was their intent several years ago in discussions when it was still a Cryptic title. That doesn't mean things haven't changed and it's still going to happen.

Please don't turn this into a meme folks. If it happens it happens. But if it doesn't people are gonna rant and rave and moan and cry because forumgoers are putting the broadest possible spin on a comment that is ambiguous at best.

Like Posi said it was their plan "back then" The rest of the post makes it pretty clear that things have changed since then. Please don't hold him to something without looking at the big picture.

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Ah, but what exactly is the big picture right now? When you combine what Posi said with survey that was circulating last fall (Massively had the story here) AND the fact that the CEO of NCSoft Europe said:

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“We have some major plans for City of Heroes for the future. Again, for this year we’re going to be doing regular updates, but there’s a lot of exciting stuff going on around City of Heroes, not for this year in terms of new releases, but certainly in the next couple of years.”

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after NCSoft bought out Cryptic, AND the fact that NCSoft is well aware that they've got 2 direct competitors coming out this year, and is certain to do something to divert attention from them, AND the fact that NCNC has made major investments in new staff...

When you consider all those things...

Is it really so far out there to think a major expansion is in the offing?

Posi's post certainly doesn't confirm (or perhaps even reinforce) the speculation; but it certainly does seem to be another step in the long progression of clues that have been trickling out over the last year...

That's it!

I am SOOOO sick of the devs ruining this game!!!1!

First of all, this absolutely destroys my roleplaying of my characters. I like to pretend that all of my characters have completely silent attacks; that's why I built my new computer with no speakers or headphones, geniuses!

Secondly, this is terrible for all non-english speaking players! It's bad enough trying to translate the regular stuff, but what are the chances that my English to Latvian dictionary is actually going to have "Freem" and "Biff."

Why do the devs hate us?!?!

This kind of careless corporate attitude is exactly the reason that I'm signing up to be a Virgle Pioneer. To heck with quitting and going to CO; I'm leaving all you bastids behind and starting fresh. We're going to have our own Superhero MMO! With blackjack! And hookers!

In fact, forget about the blackjack and the MMO.

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This is the first thread I've EVER read from page 1-20. Holy moly I don't know how you forumites do it AND keep a sense of humour.

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We're psychotic.

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Speak for yourself, Lady. Some of us are only sociopathic.

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Not to mention the schizophrenic among us. Not that I am, or anything.

Yes he is.

Shut up, what do you know?

Both of you be quiet, you're attracting attention.

I like applesauce.

Can't we all just get along?

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Yeah i was really disappointed about that. I won't be doing it on any of my other toons. No reason too really.


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See, here's my theory:

The "wedding" is not going to be what it seems; something big is going to happen.

Maybe after that, those missions will change to something more interesting...

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And the hammidon and lusca should be able to marry.

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My god, man! Think of the offspring! A giant, jello-tentacled monster with irresitable damage, that no one wants to fight, that's nearly impossible to beat, and that spawns every five minutes?

I'm cringing just imagining it.

And what of the wedding night? Oh god, I just pictured that. I think I have to go lie down now.

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Pos, are there plans to allow for players to get the toga/greek tunics and accessories from past valentine's events this year, perhaps through missions? I have some Greek God themed heroes I'd love to create, but without the proper costume, the ideas just languish

I've been reading, but nothing has been posted, or I just missed it somewhere if it has.

Thanks!

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Actually, I believe that's covered in the flyer. It mentions that DJ Zero and Ganymede will once more be asking for co-op teams to help them; the greek stuff was rewarded for those arcs last year.

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And we've got no reason to think NCSoft isn't going to do the same.

Yeah, we do: NCsoft likes micropayments. There's a new sheriff in town, remember?


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But they also like retaining customers. Charging for every little bauble would tend to get in the way of that. (As the venom in parts of this thread would indicate.)

I'm just not ready to say that it's the end of free content, or even the start of a serious decrease. I'm going to wait and see what happens.

I'm not saying that this not something that needs to be watched closely. I'm just saying that NCSoft has, up to this point, made me a satisfied customer, and the mere rumor of the possibility of change in their business practices doesn't worry me.

Now, all that being said, if you're right, and the "free" content suffers because of offerings like this, then I'll grab my torch and pitchfork and join you in the angry mob. But to me, that's still an if.

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Game breaking updates: how many options for EQ / EQ2 exist that if you don't have it, you can't play wherever? Hell, even here - COV is NOT playable by COH only accounts! If you really needed to play on the redside here, you must get a cov account and upgrade it.

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And they pretty much eliminated even that barrier when they gave CoV (or H) to players that only had the one side after the NCSoft aquisition.

Which, amazingly enough, people also complained about. I believe the argument there was something along the lines of "Hey, it's not fair, I had to pay for that, so everyone else should to." Of course, that just shows that no matter what, the devs can't win: they give us stuff free, and people complain. They charge for add-ons, and people complain. There's just no way to please everyone.

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Would you say that's what WoW does by charging for expansions and charging a subscription fee?

Blizzard pushes out at least as much free content for WoW as we get here in CoX. Over and above the paid expansions.

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And we've got no reason to think NCSoft isn't going to do the same.

After all, they sold us the GvE pack as an add on, but that hasn't stopped them from also giving us more costume options and temporary powers as part of the standard service since.

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The volume of free content over the past year has been staggering

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Stop drinking the kool aid.

There has NEVER been free content added to CoX. We are paying $15 a month for constantly updated content.

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That's a matter of debate. The User Agreement doesn't say anywhere in there that NCSoft is required to give us any additional content; it states that our $15 is for access to the game as is. Therefore, anything they do give us is above and beyond their contractual obligation; they don't have to do it. Which means that, in a sense, it's free.

Now, as a practical matter, no company that stuck to that kind of philosophy would stay in business for long. People expect more value for their money. Therefore, as a practical matter, the updates are something that NCSoft has to provide.

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I find their to be a difference between paying for new content, and paying a
subscription fee. Take your own advice.

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So if you subscribed to Newsweek, you'd be fine with them also charging you cover price for the magazine, right?

Seriously. I am begging you. Think before you post.

The subscription fee is what you are paying to get new content.

P.S. Love the avatar.

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No, but if they started printing books, I wouldn't think my subscription entitled me to get those free. I'd fully expect to pay extra for whichever books I wanted.

Of course, if the quality of the magazine suffered as a result, I'd be upset. However, that's something that's yet to be seen with the game.

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This is a dangerous question, but I'll answer with the following condition: don't jump on specific items and start a whole tanget about how that specific idea is bad, impossible, etc. The larger point is that there should be SOMETHING new for us to do that is not just the same "run missions" content. If not ideas like these, then SOMETHING.

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Oddly enough, quite a few of the things you mentioned were, to a greater or lesser extent, in the last few issues.

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Completely new tilesets that are not just a reskinned warehouse.

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What about the rikti base tile set in I10? Admittedly, it's the only new one we've seen in a while, but it is a new tileset.

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Factions. Implement faction tracking so you can improve your faction rating with groups like the Crey, Malta, Freedom Phalanx, etc. You can raise your faction with a group by 1) running missions for them, 2) "defeating" foes of their most hated faction(s), 3) Street sweeping in a zone that is important to them, 4) Other. The benefits of faction would be access to additional costume options, a faction shop with weapon customization options and temp powers, FUCTIONAL items for your base, etc (buyable with influence, not Yet Another Currency Type like merits, salvage, prestige, etc.).

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That pretty much describes the Vanguard merit system in I10; you do their missions, you street sweep against their most hated faction, and you earn "points" with them that can get you costume items and temp powers. It's true, they're re-using the salvage system to track your "standing" with the faction, but conceptually, the idea is the same. As to using inf, well that's more arguing with the implementation of the idea. (To a lesser extent, I11 could also arguably be said to include "factional" content, with working for the Menders. It's not as extensive, but the story seems to indicate that there's more to that to come.)

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Give people a way to affect the game world.

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Again, this has been done. When you finish the LGTF, a full zone invasion gets triggered somewhere. Before that, you have RV, where the landscape changes as you secure control points.

These are minor things, and certainly not as extensive as you seem to want, but they do give the lie to the idea that these things are completely ignored by devs. The devs are working to give us great new stuff, and accomplished a lot in 2007, especially in the form of systems that can be built on in the future. Saying that IO's are the only new content to come in the last 3 issues is just irresponsible flaming.