Discussion: Positron Q&A on the XP Smoothing
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2008-02-07 10:53 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in.
[/ QUOTE ]Wow, I wish you'd release that info! I'd love it more if the average was shown for each archetype, but failing that I'd love to see how long, on average, it takes players for each level and therefore from 1 to 50. Average for all players, not just us forum users.
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In Issue 12 (no release date yet, sorry), we are going to have you never dropping below 50% Inf. earn rate when in Supergroup mode. We will look at the impact of that change and base future alterations on that.
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That's good news. Hopefully you'll get rid of the influence penalty completely in the future. Players should get 100% influence and SGs should get 100% prestige all the time. Toggling between the two just adds an unnecessary level of complication to the game.
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Barry White was asked about the XP curve in CoX. His response? "Smooth it baby, oh yeah!" 
He plays an Ice Tanker. What else? 
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Very regrettably Barry White died on July 4, 2003, before CoH went into closed beta.
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Hi kids. Debbie Downer here.
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My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
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In Issue 12 (no release date yet, sorry), we are going to have you never dropping below 50% Inf. earn rate when in Supergroup mode. We will look at the impact of that change and base future alterations on that.
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That's nice and all, but I know many of my friends will continue to run out of sgmode simply because they are losing 50% of their cash. Why is there a cash penalty for being in sgmode at all? It leads to badgers and people who want to buy from the black market never being in sgmode. Please, either give us a really good excuse for the penalty or remove it...
SG Mode should not be a total 'no brainer'. There should be some advantage to NOT being in SG mode, otherwise you are penalizing toons who don't have an SG membership above and beyond all the SG goodies they are missing out on.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Given that there are mobs above 50, and invention recipes up to 53 in the database that aren't actually awarded, why not have some way to rise above 50?
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The recipe thing is an anomaly, due to the fact that the top of the enhancement table is 53.
No matter what the maximum level of players ends up being, there will always exist enhancements up to Player+3, and Critters up to Player+5, to allow for the existence of +3 enhancements, and +5 critters to fight. So the existence of things higher than 50 isn't really a good reason to increase the player level cap, since that would force those things to go up higher as well.
They'll always be higher than we are, because there always must exist things higher than our security level, both in terms of things for us to use, and in terms of things for us to fight.
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SG Mode should not be a total 'no brainer'. There should be some advantage to NOT being in SG mode, otherwise you are penalizing toons who don't have an SG membership above and beyond all the SG goodies they are missing out on.
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I'm not certain I agree. What concerns me is the opposite situation, which is this: should there exist a penalty for being in SG mode for people in an SG?
Anyone above level ten can make an SG, and although you can't go berserk, anyone can make a personal base with at least limited functionality. Therefore, the only people who aren't a member of an SG, even an SG of one, are the people explicitly choosing not to be in one, or can't level beyond level 10.
My problem with the original system was that it wasn't designed to be some grand balance between the SG-haves and havenots. It was designed to be an influence sink, period. And the problem was that it squeezed an inappropriate segment of the player population, in my opinion. Large SGs that could pretty much tolerate any cost, were fine. Solo players that didn't bother with SGs at all were fine. It was the players who were, in effect, "starting up" SGs that were hit the hardest. And those players seemed to be the *most* inappropriate players to penalize: the ones actually *trying* to start something.
I'm not sure what to think about the 50% limit. My guess is that its better, and my guess is that CH selling has weakened the influence limits anyway. But it still concerns me a little.
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(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in. While not a perfect indicator of levelling speed, it's an excellent starting point.
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Now I'm really curious what this stat looks like for level 50.
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You mean how long it took you to level to 50? When you level to fifty, go find a NPC whose name begins with the letter "M". They give you the total logged in time for that character since creation.
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My problem with the original system was that it wasn't designed to be some grand balance between the SG-haves and havenots. It was designed to be an influence sink, period.
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Exactly. And that was when influence had very little value; before the invention system and auction houses.
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And the problem was that it squeezed an inappropriate segment of the player population, in my opinion. Large SGs that could pretty much tolerate any cost, were fine. Solo players that didn't bother with SGs at all were fine. It was the players who were, in effect, "starting up" SGs that were hit the hardest. And those players seemed to be the *most* inappropriate players to penalize: the ones actually *trying* to start something.
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Yep. That's a very good reason why the penalty should go away. Let the SGs have prestige and let the players have influence. No one is restricted from joining an SG or starting a private SG of their own and creating a personal base.
The influence/prestige penalty is part of an outdated system and needs to be removed.
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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in. While not a perfect indicator of levelling speed, it's an excellent starting point.
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Now I'm really curious what this stat looks like for level 50.
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You mean how long it took you to level to 50? When you level to fifty, go find a NPC whose name begins with the letter "M". They give you the total logged in time for that character since creation.
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I mean how many hours my character (and all characters on average) have been logged in since hitting 50. I can figure it out for my own characters if I remember how many hours they had upon hitting 50, but the global average would be interesting.
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The one thing I question tho, he said they datamined how long characters were at certain levels. Could this info have been skewed by alt-itis? I know when I hit 22-27 range, I usually start another alt and run them for a while. Or even partake in a FOTM build.
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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in. While not a perfect indicator of levelling speed, it's an excellent starting point.
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It would also be nice to know that you have a statistic showing character creation date, when the character last logged in, and average login time for the past 3, 6, and 12 months. I think it would be helpful in showing more data regarding those "brick wall" levels the new XP curve is designed to fix.
In my case at least, "alt-itis" is how I tend to deal with a character's progress stalling. Most seem to stall around 14 or 16 (There's a pretty solid drive to get Flight/SS/SJ, but once achieving that, the next goal is usually Stamina or another lev 20, and those 4-6 levels seem to grind by so slowly on most characters).
Once I push through to 22 or so, things speed up, and in fact tend to go a bit too fast. That's where I find myself having to get creative or die alot in order to not outlevel content. Knowing that Orouboros is there is nice, because it lets me skipp a few things for later, like some badge missions, but it doesn't help me fill up contact bars. One of the things I like to do is get as many contacts maxxed out so that I have more places where it's convenient to shop for inspirations later in the game. (I would probably not feel as strongly about this if we could buy insp by "phone", then contact location wouldn't be so important). I also think that there's just too many contacts available, at least on Blueside. Redside works pretty good (though I wouldn't mind seeing another starting contact or two), but my Heroes find it far too easy to get a contact list that is cluttered with "Acquaintances". Something else I wouldn't mind seeing is that if you outlevel a contact, you would still be able to take missions from them, but you would be auto exemplared to the mission's range. Either that, or just a setting somewhere that would allow us to self-exemplar to our level-1. It would let us go around and get missions done without fear of outleveling certain contacts.
I can't comment much on the 30+ range. Even though I've been playing for about 40 months, I only have a few characters that have hit 30+, only 2 that have hit 40 (soon to be 3), and nothing over 41.
Anyway, I'm glad you're trying to address these issues. Thanks for your time and efforts in this regard, and all other aspects of the game. Even when it's not perfect, it's still pretty dang great
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The one thing I question tho, he said they datamined how long characters were at certain levels. Could this info have been skewed by alt-itis? I know when I hit 22-27 range, I usually start another alt and run them for a while. Or even partake in a FOTM build.
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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in. While not a perfect indicator of levelling speed, it's an excellent starting point.
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do you have an average session length? I'm curious if you can track what might be frustration, or zeal, for that matter over the level curve?
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The one thing I question tho, he said they datamined how long characters were at certain levels. Could this info have been skewed by alt-itis? I know when I hit 22-27 range, I usually start another alt and run them for a while. Or even partake in a FOTM build.
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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in. While not a perfect indicator of levelling speed, it's an excellent starting point.
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I have to say, with the utmost seriousness, that you guys have really gotten better at dealing with root problems over the last four years. It's been really amazing watching you guys (and this game!) go from a kinda home-grown feel to downright professional.
I doff my cap to thee, Pos!
~Gabriel
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I wish he'd answered the concern some of us have about the impact on prestige earning, with people reaching the influence penalty earlier.
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In Issue 12 (no release date yet, sorry), we are going to have you never dropping below 50% Inf. earn rate when in Supergroup mode. We will look at the impact of that change and base future alterations on that.
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Huzzah! If it weren't for the recent SG roster expansion, I'd declare this "Best. SG. Change. Evar." ...!!
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Would it be possible to tweak the original COH Contacts so they'll open their full Inspirations store quicker? I'd rather not have half the zone's Contacts not sell me what I need because I outleveled them.
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Actually. I'd just like it contacts charged LESS for enhancements than the regular stores do, not MORE.
It's sort of pointless for them to HAVE stores if they're charging so much more than, say, ghost falcon or whoever.
Although you are likely correct that the system is an artifact as it stands, I beleive in the principle.
Having being in an SG be all upside with no downside actually limits player choice (effectively). There should be some upside to not being in SG mode at a given moment, even if that upside is the flipside of a downside.
I don't see any real impact either way, game-balance-wise; you get plenty of money to fund enhancements either way and creating an SG is simple and easy. It's just that my personal aesthetic prefers that there be some reason, however small, for every choice.
Otherwise, you might as well have each player automatically form an SG at level 10, and never even have the option of SG Mode: just give them a costume slot instead. There is no 'quit SG' button, just an 'accept current SG invite' button.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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What worries me with this change is now I'm going to bascially have to play with debt 100% of the time just to avoid outleveling contacts. What that means is it might actually take me LONGER to level than before, because I'm forced to earn XP at half speed.
It might be nice to actually do all the TFs on one of my characters someday, too.
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It really is a good thing to have more content available than you can actually do on a single character.
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By the way, extra top-end content doesn't necessarily make things more interesting.
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Sure it does. If you don't have a lot of level cap content, then the whole process of levelling up starts to feel very, very pointless. You also lose tons of long term players that way. That's a bad thing.
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I'd love to see a new system of advancement above 50 that doesn't use XP, but rather tracks advancement based on completion of certain tasks. As rewards, give out some special non-slot powers, costumes, badges, invention rewards, SG rewards, etc.
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Anything to make lvl 50 more fun and interesting would be good.
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For instance, to get L51, you'd have to complete all of the storylines from all prior contacts, excluding TFs. For 52, you must complete all normal zone TFs. For 53, complete all the oddball TFs like Hollows, Croatoa, Strigga, RWZ, etc. CoV would need more content for this to work for them, as well, but then CoV needs more content compared to CoH anyway.
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Um...... puke?
This sounds like Trials of Atlantis in DAoC, where there is only one way to level up, and that one way is extremely painful, tedious, and not fun.
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Arcanaville wrote:
My problem with the original system was that it wasn't designed to be some grand balance between the SG-haves and havenots. It was designed to be an influence sink, period. And the problem was that it squeezed an inappropriate segment of the player population, in my opinion. Large SGs that could pretty much tolerate any cost, were fine. Solo players that didn't bother with SGs at all were fine. It was the players who were, in effect, "starting up" SGs that were hit the hardest. And those players seemed to be the *most* inappropriate players to penalize: the ones actually *trying* to start something.
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Well said. The bigger problem is the borked nature of bases, the fact that they are limited to SGs, and the general worthlessness of SGs.
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The one thing I question tho, he said they datamined how long characters were at certain levels. Could this info have been skewed by alt-itis? I know when I hit 22-27 range, I usually start another alt and run them for a while. Or even partake in a FOTM build.
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We have a "life at level" stat in seconds. This is how long a character spent at a particular level, logged in. While not a perfect indicator of levelling speed, it's an excellent starting point.
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Posi, I hope you took account of people deliberately hanging around level 30, 40 and 41 when you did your calculations.
Level 30 and 40 are stopping points for people trying to collect the Miracle unique IO and other mid-level IOs (piling on debt deliberately to slow futher xp).
41 is the bridge level for extreme PLs.
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Tee Hee!
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I'd love to see a new system of advancement above 50 that doesn't use XP, but rather tracks advancement based on completion of certain tasks. As rewards, give out some special non-slot powers, costumes, badges, invention rewards, SG rewards, etc.
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For instance, to get L51, you'd have to complete all of the storylines from all prior contacts, excluding TFs. For 52, you must complete all normal zone TFs. For 53, complete all the oddball TFs like Hollows, Croatoa, Strigga, RWZ, etc. CoV would need more content for this to work for them, as well, but then CoV needs more content compared to CoH anyway.
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No.
I don't care about any of that. I just want to grind mishes and level. Don't force me to play your way just to level up.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
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I wish he'd answered the concern some of us have about the impact on prestige earning, with people reaching the influence penalty earlier.
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In Issue 12 (no release date yet, sorry), we are going to have you never dropping below 50% Inf. earn rate when in Supergroup mode. We will look at the impact of that change and base future alterations on that.
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Positron > Statesman
Very good news.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
I am one of those people that don't care about xp but do care about content.
Do we have any idea when/if missions that aren't story arcs will make it to flashback? A lots of the cool and unusual missions are offered to you after you complete a story arc.
I am glad about the xp smoothing, not glad about the xp boost.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
I like content, but I am really REALLY happy about the xp curve smoothing and boost. I have at times just shelved a character in the slow sections, it gets a bit grindy to go through a whole play session and feel like you have made no progress.
I think this is a positive trend, and have all faith in the Dev team's ability to work it all out. Which is something I would NOT have said a year ago.
*goes back to trimming the wicks in her Positron shrine*
(QR)
There's a growing problem, which will be made worse by the (very cool, don't get me wrong) XP award increases.
There are a number of people, around since very early, who are literally running out of room for toons. But not because of alts, or at least, not because of lowbie alts.
But literally because of maxing out of 50s on a given server. One good friend is hoping to ding his 11th 50 on Freedom during the 2xXP weekend.
This is a monotonically increasing problem; it never gets better.
Or it doesn't if left unattended.
I propose that instead of being limited to 12 toons on a server, it become 12 non-50 toons on a server.
You have your regular list on the left, but in the upper-right, a (physically smaller list, names-only perhaps) of your 50s on that server. When you ding a toon to 50, the entry moves from the left-hand list to the right-hand list, opening up a new slot for fun with friends.