Why do the devs hate COV?
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2008-01-06 17:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Preach on, brutha!
I think being vocal about what players want for CoV is a very important thing. It lets the Devs know where they ought to be focusing their efforts. For example, read this post from Ex Libris regarding the wishes of the PVP community. People who are vocal about CoV should be taking notes there about how to communicate with the Devs. Be persistent, be realistic, avoid bias or malice, etc.
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The way I see it is the troll who started the thread is no longer responding in it. We all agree that the devs do not hate CoV, and we ALL agree that CoV needs a little extra love each issue. I think this point it would be best to start (or have a mod start) a consolidated thread in the suggestions form, to outline some things that will make CoV better.
Right now this thread is going back to reasonable people arguing over small things.
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The problem is... it's been needing it a while, a freaking GOOD while, and has never gotten it. Why would they bother with it now? I don't even see any improvements happening at least until I13, and that's a long way to go. Other than the different ATs, I don't see why anyone would bother with CoV as it stands now provided they have access to both games and aren't morally opposed to playing a Hero.
Hence why a ton of people are [censored]. They're trying to get attention, and while it hasn't worked before, staying silent won't, either. And, y'know what, I'll [censored] until we get confirmation that Villains will get issues (such as Grandville. Yes, the whole zone.) fixed and a heap of extra content that should have been in from the start seeing as they sold it as a supposedly complete game.
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Go for it, maybe you will get luck and the squeeky wheel will get the grease. I can tell you one thing, good arguments and clear suggestions are recived better by the community, but it is your choice. I can promise you one more thing, bitting my head off when I try to make a reasonable suggestiong acomplishes nothing.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
he is my sagestion for something new for cov an underwater zone a domed city. we have plenty of water and well if we wanted something that is harder to watch by stalite why not
and there could even be a gight sea monster in there
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Go for it, maybe you will get luck and the squeeky wheel will get the grease. I can tell you one thing, good arguments and clear suggestions are recived better by the community, but it is your choice. I can promise you one more thing, bitting my head off when I try to make a reasonable suggestiong acomplishes nothing.
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*sigh of annoyance*
Oh Zyphoid, you try this schtick every time this subject comes up and it always, always fails.
I am sorry that you covertly feel that people redside should all shut up and sit down until you decide otherwise. Sadly it does not work quite that way.
"Good arguments and clear suggestions" have been made by the ton, sadly they are usually ignored. Hell, we've been trying to get that ***-damn bugged technician in the LRSF fixed for what, almost two years now? He has not been fixed and I doubt he will ever be fixed. Why not? Because villain stuff is low priority.
I am sorry you dislike this REALITY, but it changes nothing. Have a nice day.
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I think being vocal about what players want for CoV is a very important thing. It lets the Devs know where they ought to be focusing their efforts. For example, read this post from Ex Libris regarding the wishes of the PVP community. People who are vocal about CoV should be taking notes there about how to communicate with the Devs. Be persistent, be realistic, avoid bias or malice, etc.
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Yep. Any sub-community be it base designers, hardcore PvPers or exclusive villanside players can learn a fair bit by reading that.
Be realistic, be positive, be organised and make clear what the priorities should be in any longer list.
So those who only play redside, whats 1 2 and 3 on your personal lists ?
For me (non-exlusive)
1) reduce graphics lag in grandville (re do the zone to eliminate a lot of the double texturing)
2) Merged markets
3) level 40-45 Strike force
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Maybe the devs can tell us why they hate COV?
or..
Maybe they don't hate it, but are incompetent nincompoops?
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Yeah, better quit now while you have a chance.
Masterminds annoy everybody, sooner or later. Heck, Masterminds annoy themselves.
-ShadowsBetween
I think my 3 big requests for CoV would be:
1. More lower level zones (below 30), ideally coming with new content in them
2. New content gives more opportunities to feel more like a classic super villain and less like a mercenary or lackey for Arachnos
3. Do something about the patron power pools... buff them up and/or give villains access to non-patron ancillary power pools
There's a bit of a difference there though. Ex Libris is at least somewhat active in the PvP forums. Even that topic was started by Ex Libris.
When was the last time you saw a red name comment, at all, on the issues CoV players have about feeling neglected? Heck, where's our forum from it? The City of Villains forum disappeared, it got rolled into "general discussions", under the category "for fun". We don't even have a real place TO voice our concerns.
We can worry about making the case presentable to the devs after the devs show us that they care, even the slightest. Right now, we don't have their attention at all, they refuse to acknowladge that there even IS a problem.
Well, when the topic starts off by accusing them of hating their own game right in the title of the thread, yeah, I'd think that would put them off replying...
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The City of Villains forum disappeared, it got rolled into "general discussions", under the category "for fun". We don't even have a real place TO voice our concerns.
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This forum is supposed to be for both CoH and CoV. If that doesn't feel right, then "Suggestions and Ideas" would also be a good place to put it.
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Go for it, maybe you will get luck and the squeeky wheel will get the grease. I can tell you one thing, good arguments and clear suggestions are recived better by the community, but it is your choice. I can promise you one more thing, bitting my head off when I try to make a reasonable suggestiong acomplishes nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
*sigh of annoyance*
Oh Zyphoid, you try this schtick every time this subject comes up and it always, always fails.
I am sorry that you covertly feel that people redside should all shut up and sit down until you decide otherwise. Sadly it does not work quite that way.
"Good arguments and clear suggestions" have been made by the ton, sadly they are usually ignored. Hell, we've been trying to get that ***-damn bugged technician in the LRSF fixed for what, almost two years now? He has not been fixed and I doubt he will ever be fixed. Why not? Because villain stuff is low priority.
I am sorry you dislike this REALITY, but it changes nothing. Have a nice day.
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And 10 other people can say the exact thing as me and every time it is me you respond to. Keep it up Bad and people will start to think you have a thing for me 
Really I have only ever gotten into two threads about this. The first time I was having a bad week and made an [censored] of myself. This time I haven't.
No amount of [censored] is going to fix it till the devs are damn good and ready. Shoot I want the red issues fixed if for no other reason than so people will shut the [censored] up about it. Look at what I have said, I AGREE that [censored] needs to be worked on red side. I AGREE with you, I just think suggestions needs to be done in a more constructive manner. I am not a mod though, so who gives a [censored] what I think?
I know what it is like to crusade for something you want to change in the game. I fought during the costume recipe implementation, and I am still fighting for power customization. The manner in which I chose to do it is respectful to others, and I attempt to discuss and not argue. Or maybe as you like to say I am being condescending, I promise it is not intentional. But [censored] what do I know, [censored] all you want.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Death Mage:
The Dev team is expanding and there will be more time and effort available.
The majority of this will go to their own vision. Ontop of that the sub-communities which are active, growing and present their requests carefully will get more time.
You can complain and moan if you like, but realise that will not achieve anything.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
1) Market Merge
2) Reduce the lag of all villain zones as much as possible (I was stunned that Lighthouse labeled it a "too much work for too little return" issue, being that it affects everyone that plays City of Villains.)
3) Mercy Island Sewers
Yeah, well, it's quite clear how the devs feel about CoV and the players that are concerned about it and want to see it made better.
They have time to post about movies they've seen, or other games they've played. But they don't have 5 minutes to address people that have real concern and are getting angry.
And don't tell me about not calling out to devs, because that b.s. only seems to apply to questions about CoV which are addressed to them. If you don't believe me, go back through dev posts and see how many times they were called out and did respond.
If they have plans for CoV they could at least reassure the CoV community. If they have no plans for CoV they should let us know so we know where we stand. Personally, they've ignored us too long. I'm fed up and I'm out of here as soon as I find another game.
Clearly, you're right - they've designed, coded, implemented, patched, expanded and continually maintained a game that they hate for the sole purpose of ignoring the complaints of anyone idiotic enough to be duped into playing it.
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
They designed, coded, implemented... and then ignored a game that they claim doesn't even really exist.
The patches and expansions have been for City of Heroes since I7. CoV just got caught up in 'em by circumstance.
If you hurry, you and NancY can share a cab.
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
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CoV just got caught up in 'em by circumstance.
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The Black Market, Monster Island, the Abyss, a Castaway reference, and the Tesseract Strike Force were all "circumstance"?
Yup. Chaos theory coding.
Never mind that there have been numerous instances of bugs with CoV being fixed and other tweaks being made. Patron arcs first had to be fixed because badges weren't awarding. Then they had to be fixed because their respecs weren't awarding. Dominators got tweaked around I8 to make them even better than they had ever been.
And then there was the Arachnos Flier. Broken for the longest time, despite attempts to fix it, until it got fixed for good sometime between I9 and I10. Villain players used to hold it up as an example of how the Devs were neglecting CoV, that hero players could easily get Heat Seeker in the STF but villains couldn't get it. So then they finally figured out how to fix it... and everyone got the badge and promptly forgot all about the whole thing. Now it's the LRSF technician that people are holding up as the new example of the bug that should've gotten fixed... and when that one gets fixed, I'm sure everyone will quickly forget too, then move on to complaining about some other bug to come along.
They designed, coded, and implemented a game that they hoped would bring new money to the game but wasn't a great success. The only major addition CoV got was Issue 7, and that was back in June of 2006.
So by "expanded" you mean the level 40-50 content? It sure would suck if that game ended at 40 but blue side ended at 50. Aside from the shared zones, how has CoV been "expanded"?
Maybe you mean Hamidon? Which few servers do because there aren't enough villains interested enough to do it? That Should have been a shared zone.
Let's recap, and I'm not looking at every hair in the soup, only the big ones:
Issue 7 - Villains content for levels 40-50. Grandville, and RV: a PvP zone so if you don't PvP, too bad. LRSF, mayhems, patron pools, new powersets. Nice.
Issue 8 - Vet rewards for everyone. Doesn't "expand" CoV. Redesigned Faultline, police band missions, and safeguards...for heroes.
Issue 9 - Hamidon for villains. They might as well not even have bothered. Talk about too much work for too little return, I never hear about villains raiding Hami on my server. Inventions and auctions for all, really just a timesink more than an expansion to CoV. Statesman's TF for heroes.
Issue 10 - Invasion for both sides. Though I'm not sure how easy or hard it was for villains to find teams and get badges because I didn't even bother. Co-op RWZ for levels what...35-50? Not exactly written for villains, but it's content, amirite?
Issue 11 - Ouroboros for all, good if you want badges or care enough to go back and do what you missed, not really "new" content. New powersets for all, that's ok. New hair...does hair fall under "expanded"? I'm thinking....no.
So, as I've said in an earlier post, all they seem to do these days is maintain CoV, not update it, or "expand" it. And I never said they hated it, I do however believe they ignore it in the hopes that it goes away. And yes, they dupe people but only into paying for it in the first place. I'd like a refund please.
edited *changed patch to addition
So, you provide a laundry list of expansions to CoV, then dismiss them each in turn because they're things you don't care about, amirite?
"Not expanded" != "Not expanded the way NancY wanted"
You actually proved my point very effectively.
Arc 55669 - Tales of the PPD: One Hell of a Deal (video trailer)
Arc 64511 - The Wrecking Ball
Arc 1745 - The Trouble With Trimbles
Arc 302901 - HappyCorpse
Ok, so if for issues 13-17, if they were dedicated to adding Villain content, which heroes got the occasional use of and benefit from, here the contacts treat them as bloodthirsty murders, criminals, etc., and only on issue 16 do you get missions actually geared for heroes, you'd be just fine with that Xyzyx?
It's easy for him to make his comments because where he's standing the water is fine.
However, if CoH had gotten those puny "expansions" in 20 months he'd be screaming like an inmate that dropped a bar of soap in the prison shower.
Gods forbid the villain players complain though, we're idiots for thinking we've gotten [censored] since issue 7.
The only idiot here has a smiley face for an avatar.
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The way I see it is the troll who started the thread is no longer responding in it. We all agree that the devs do not hate CoV, and we ALL agree that CoV needs a little extra love each issue. I think this point it would be best to start (or have a mod start) a consolidated thread in the suggestions form, to outline some things that will make CoV better.
Right now this thread is going back to reasonable people arguing over small things.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is... it's been needing it a while, a freaking GOOD while, and has never gotten it. Why would they bother with it now? I don't even see any improvements happening at least until I13, and that's a long way to go. Other than the different ATs, I don't see why anyone would bother with CoV as it stands now provided they have access to both games and aren't morally opposed to playing a Hero.
Hence why a ton of people are [censored]. They're trying to get attention, and while it hasn't worked before, staying silent won't, either. And, y'know what, I'll [censored] until we get confirmation that Villains will get issues (such as Grandville. Yes, the whole zone.) fixed and a heap of extra content that should have been in from the start seeing as they sold it as a supposedly complete game.