Why do the devs hate COV?
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2008-01-06 17:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I can tell you that the rate of costume recipe drops went on for months before a red name chimed in.
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What? I just looked back at AmazingMOO's thread about that. He posted on 5/07/07. His title was clearly calling out to the devs, "Continued Dev Silence on Costume Drops?" He stated it had been a week since the inventions came in, Issue 9 released May 1, 07. And Positron posted the next day. The next day!
What months? You mean hours.
Oh, and the devs were called out to more than once in that thread, and they answered. Go figure.
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Yea, look back at the month + that the same threads ran in Closed beta, and got in to the hundreds of pages. May want to go look back bit further.
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Closed beta forums are... well, closed. We can't exactly look there.
Even then, costume drops are a both issue. They did reply, but only when they had a proper solution in the works. Does this mean they don't have one for CoV and they intend to let that side of the game linger?
EDIT: I also find it quite funny that insulting posts are applauded and non-insulting ones are generally ignored.
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I don't think I can see threads from closed beta, and I wasn't in that one. Besides, I wasn't talking about beta and you didn't reply to a post about beta, so I don't think your comment of months applies.
Plus, hundreds of pages isn't the same as months. I don't care if a thread is hundreds of pages if a dev replies the next day. O.o
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Like it or not, that is still time that players were complaining about something they did not like, I can't remember how long i9 was in closed, or open, but it really has no bearing on this thread.
The point is they will not say anything till they aer good and ready. And after what the community did to geko when he would reply I don't blame them for not responding in threads like this. Some of the people here can't be reasoned with, some can, that was a great post Hatman, and I don't disagree with anything you said. Best to avoid argueing when no matter what you say it is wrong.
Edit: Didn't mean to ignore your post hatman, I am posting between loads while playing, and we were posting at the same time. Also as I recall some of the big ones from closed were moved, but may have been purged by now.
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Didn't mean to ignore your post hatman, I am posting between loads while playing, and we were posting at the same time. Also as I recall some of the big ones from closed were moved, but may have been purged by now.
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Not you, specifically, but more the post like "/em claps" at the all villain players complaining are hypocrites.
I don't think any one here is a hypocrite, just some are more inflamed than others over the issue. I ahve a question, ow many of you have PMed a dev or a community rep about your feelings on CoV? I know I sent a ton during the costume issues, and on Power Cust and Weapon Cust.
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If I was convinced it would help, I probably would have. Except to whom do I address this? Posi? He's far too busy with other stuff to properly take the time and answer what could be a very insignificant question. Castle? Not his department. Same with BAB. Ultimately, I could bring this up to Lighthouse or Ex, but with the amounts of such threads they see, they probably don't know anything more than we do at this point.
Kinda like voteing. I sent most of mine to LH, and he always gave me the same answer "They are aware of your concerns."
Never hurts to try. 
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Conversely, what I find sad is that some people can't wrap their minds around the fact that CoV is a standalone game, because it's thinking that's outside their box.
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Where is the evidence for it being a stand alone game?
Even if you only ever bought COV you can still interact with players from COH in the 4 PVP zones, Pocket D and the Arena. That right there shoots any claim that the game is stand alone in the foot.
I'll grant you that it was a marketing goof to give any impression that the game was purely stand alone. It should always have been made clear that it was an expansion for COH that could be played with out buying COH.
But your are deluding yourself by clinging to the claim that COV is or ever has been a stand alone game.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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If I was convinced it would help, I probably would have. Except to whom do I address this? Posi? He's far too busy with other stuff to properly take the time and answer what could be a very insignificant question. Castle? Not his department. Same with BAB. Ultimately, I could bring this up to Lighthouse or Ex, but with the amounts of such threads they see, they probably don't know anything more than we do at this point.
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Maybe try Hero 1? He is the lead writter, so should have something to say about content at least.
And try Posi too, it can't hurt.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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I can tell you that the rate of costume recipe drops went on for months before a red name chimed in.
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Err when did months equal 2 weeks? Positron posted within 2 weeks of the I9's release that their was a problem with the rate of costume drops being to rare.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Hmm, I'll simply state that the devs likely waited for I9 to be live and the mass of data from 150K+ players before deciding if the drop rate really was to low. It looked ok to them in the beta and they made a change to the costume drop rates only a couple weeks before I9 went live.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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I can tell you that the rate of costume recipe drops went on for months before a red name chimed in.
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Err when did months equal 2 weeks? Positron posted within 2 weeks of the I9's release that their was a problem with the rate of costume drops being to rare.
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I could be wrong, but how long was it before they went into their own pool? It may of been only a few weeks, sure seemed like longer, but it has been a while. I have no problems admiting when I am wrong
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They changed to Pool E (minions only) in I10
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
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I can tell you that the rate of costume recipe drops went on for months before a red name chimed in.
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Err when did months equal 2 weeks? Positron posted within 2 weeks of the I9's release that their was a problem with the rate of costume drops being to rare.
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I could be wrong, but how long was it before they went into their own pool? It may of been only a few weeks, sure seemed like longer, but it has been a while. I have no problems admiting when I am wrong
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Putting in the fix for the problem took months, but the devs acknowledge there was a problem right off the bat. This is fairly typical for fixes. A problem may be identified but take time to be fixed in a way that the devs like. Thus while the drop rate of costumes in I9 was broken the fix for it didn't go in until I10.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Conversely, what I find sad is that some people can't wrap their minds around the fact that CoV is a standalone game, because it's thinking that's outside their box.
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Where is the evidence for it being a stand alone game?
Even if you only ever bought COV you can still interact with players from COH in the 4 PVP zones, Pocket D and the Arena. That right there shoots any claim that the game is stand alone in the foot.
I'll grant you that it was a marketing goof to give any impression that the game was purely stand alone. It should always have been made clear that it was an expansion for COH that could be played with out buying COH.
But your are deluding yourself by clinging to the claim that COV is or ever has been a stand alone game.
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Wow, do you have that [censored]-backwards. Where's your proof that it's nothing more than an expansion? The fact that a person can buy City of Villains and go home and install it, without ever installing CoH, and then can play it, without ever playing CoH, proves it's a stand alone game.
Said player would never have to see a hero player if they avoided shared zones, and the shared zones are nothing more than fluff, they aren't necessary to reach level 50.
Said player could go all the way from the tutorial to level 50 without ever having to know the CoH story line -or- see a hero. Or play a hero.
Said player would pay $15 a month to play CoV and never have to be concerned with the CoH story line -or- see a hero. Or play a hero.
Still deluding yourself that it's not a stand alone game? Maybe you need to check a dictionary then.
Oh, and there was never a marketing goof. Because they never gave the impression it was purely a stand alone game. They advertised it as an expanshalone...an expansion for CoH owners, yet a stand alone game if that's what you wanted. Selective memory doesn't make your belief a fact.
Now prove your claim, with actual facts, not made up ones.
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The fact that a person can buy City of Villains and go home and install it, without ever installing CoH.
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Just a technical point, but its impossible to iinstall CoV without installing CoH, and its impossible to install CoH without installing CoV. They are the same executable.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
No, they aren't, Darkspeed. When CoV was released, you installed CoV. You got the City of Villains executable, you got the City of Villains data, and you got access to City of Villains. You had 8 character slots per server, you had your choice of 5 ATs to try, and you had no ability whatsoever to play a Hero.
Until you bought City of Heroes as well, which upped your character slots to 12 per server, let you install (or download) the City of Heroes data (maps etc.), and let you try 5 and eventually 7 more ATs.
They were sold as two separate, complete games. Many people don't seem to remember that thanks to GvE, or because they already had CoH and thus didn't notice that CoV really WAS a seperate game.
So you're telling me that if I went upstairs and installed my CoV disk onto my kids computer she'd have access to CoH?
Not GvE, just plain old CoV. She could play CoH with that disk? Or would she have to install a separate disk for CoH, or at the least add CoH to her account management screen?
Oh heh, look at the NCSoft store. Notice the words Stand-alone title: Does not require owning City of Heroes. Hope that's proof enough. I was going to add that as of last night Amazon was still selling CoV as a stand alone, when I decided to check an "official" site instead. Wow, I'm sooo deluded. 
But the executable is the same, right? its just a question of which flags are set and which data you downloaded.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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So you're telling me that if I went upstairs and installed my CoV disk onto my kids computer she'd have access to CoH?
Not GvE, just plain old CoV. She could play CoH with that disk? Or would she have to install a separate disk for CoH, or at the least add CoH to her account management screen?
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Anymore? Yes. She can access CoH. They combined the accounts, gave everyone with only one side access the other side.
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But the executable is the same, right? its just a question of which flags are set and which data you downloaded.
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Ok, so by that definition, all games using the same engine are the same game. Using one .exe I can run Doom, Doom 2, Heretic, Hexen, Hexen's expansion pack, and Strife.
They're all the same game!
I know they did that for a limited time, I don't think it holds true for forever.
Because my kid did have CoH, and she left for WoW. When I told her they gave her CoV for free she came back for a short time. A very short time. She's back in WoW, says CoX is boring and it takes too long to level. Maybe she's deluded too, who knows. Might be something in the water.
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Now prove your claim, with actual facts, not made up ones.
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Sorry the moment you install COV you have also installed COH they are both the same exact client.
Yes you can deliberately avoid any interaction with heroes but you have to make an active effort to do so. As a matter of fact the global channels are cross faction so you can be playing a villain and talk to heroes or be playing a hero and talk to villains in the global channels. Again the mechanics of the game defeat your attempt to marginalize yourself.
COH and COV run on the same set of servers, there is not a separate COV server from the COH player nor is there a separate COH server from the COV players. The very fact that you can buy COV and with no further addition than simply upgrading your account or having the devs do it for you have access to both with no additional install negates this argument.
For COV to be truly a separate game like you claim it would need to do the following.
1. The COV and COH install would need to be completely separate requiring special downloads to merge the content. The simple fact that the account key can change what content in your game you access is a strike against this.
2. COV and COH would need to be running on completely separate servers ie there should be no cross communication between the separate games. This means no global communication channels between game. This would also mean that you can not PVP with COH players because they are fully separate games.
3. The would be no communication between the sides because of the separate code base and servers. As mentioned this would block any and all cross faction communication and interaction.
The very fact that all of these are false and instead it is 1 download and install for both is indicative of them being not two but one game. Additionally the fact that the two factions can communicate and interact in multiple ways is yet another strike to the two game fantasy. Last the fact that occasionally glitch will appear where a character of one faction starts on the other factions side is a true indicator that they are one game.
As I have mentioned before it was a bad marketing decision to ever market it as more than an expansion that you could play without the main game. Selling it as a separate game is what leads to the self marginalization of individuals clinging desperately to the illusion that this is two games not one.
The have tacitly admitted this with the release of the Good versus Evil edition and no longer selling the separate boxes.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
I think CoV is about as stand alone as Factions, or nightfall are to guild wars. Yes they can be played alone, but you will still see NPCs from the orginal game, and even parts of the first story.
Also you CAN play CoV w/o ever touching hero content, but then there would be even less to do, as in you would have to avoid the LRSF for one.
I think they need to find a way to merge them, via cross over, or at shaing, or one of the other thousands of other suggestions and put this issue to bed. Then we can go to need more of X type of content and not X game needs more.
Also I know on my PC CoH, and CoV share the same folder.
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The only way you can even have a solo COH or COV game any more is if you manage to track down one of the old boxes and create a new account since November 8th 2007. Any active account prior to 11/8/07 was given full access to both sides. As the only official boxes being sold now are GvE all new accounts should have both.
Mind you there appear to still be old boxes available of only COH and COV so occasionally people manage to install a stand alone game but those are now the exceptions not the rule.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
I happen to have a copy of the old box, unopened. Does that mean if I install it now it's NOT going to have both?
I don't think I can see threads from closed beta, and I wasn't in that one. Besides, I wasn't talking about beta and you didn't reply to a post about beta, so I don't think your comment of months applies.
Plus, hundreds of pages isn't the same as months. I don't care if a thread is hundreds of pages if a dev replies the next day. O.o