Discussion: NCsoft Acquires City of Heroes!
By
AaronH,
Posted on: 2007-11-06 13:55 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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And that's the sort of marketing genius that brought the world "New Coke".
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That's not quite true. The problem with "New Coke" was not that Coca Cola attempted to overleverage their brand, the problem was that they almost destroyed their brand by altering the foundation upon which it was built: Coke.
Brands are *not* self-standing entities, no matter how much some marketing dweeb in a suit thinks it so with Powerpoint charts to match. Brands are *extensions* of actual *things*. Coke, the brand, can be used to sell two cents of bottled water for three bucks, if you leverage it right. But only if Coke, the brand, is supported by Coke, the product that people identify with Coke.
"New Coke" was a ridiculous twin-mistake. First, some idiot thought that since Coke was so well established brand-wise, people were drinking whatever came in the red can, no matter what it tasted like, so they could fiddle with it without risk.
Second, some even bigger idiot thought that the results of the Pepsi Challenge were authoritative. The problem with the Pepsi Challenge was this: people are not stupid. Pepsi Challenge booths were giving away free cans of Pepsi to anyone who picked the Pepsi; they were not giving away free cans of Coke to people who picked the Coke. I got a lot of free soda from the Pepsi Challege. When Coke itself attempted to reproduce the results of the Pepsi Challenge in their own labs, they made a second error: they attempted to judge people's reactions to drinking an entire can of soda based on one sip. As anyone who actually drinks soda will tell you, when you're thirsty, the first sip of Pepsi, which is sweeter, tastes better than the first sip of Coke, which tastes less sweet. After the first sip, however, Pepsi starts to taste sweeter and sweeter, while Coke tends not to. For some people, that's good, and for others, not so good.
The people for whom that was not so good tended to be - surprise - Coke drinkers. The recipe change was not going to make them happy, and Coke was supposed to know that there were, oh, quite a few of those people, seeing as they were their customers.
Basically, NCsoft can attempt to leverage the license of CoH to sell all sorts of other crap. Some will try it and buy it just because its City of Heroes crap. The ones who don't care will continue to play the game itself with hardly a hiccough.
But actually mess with the *game* in an attempt to create cross-sell opportunities too much, and you'll lose customers of the base game. And without CoH the game, there is no CoH the brand. That's what New Coke is supposed to teach marketing people.
Many, I find, tend not to learn that particular lesson from that particular fiasco.
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I agree with you Arcanaville, though maybe some of my previous posts don't make it sound like it (some days multi-tasking between here and my actual work may not be the best idea).
Another example of the New Coke fiasco could be pointed at SOE's attempts with SWG in late 2005 and what that did to their business on that game.
I don't foresee changes to the "game" of CoX at all. I'm confident NCSoft is not so stupid to have not learned those lessons from SWG.
What I foresee, is a change to the business model. I.e. the content of future free expansions versus content in possible pay-to-add expansions or adventure packs as a means to sell an increase in marketing, staff, development, et cetera to the shareholders and investors. Remember one important facet here: NCSoft is publicly traded and has many others to answer to in regards to acquiring an I.P. outright, expanding operations, et cetera.
Now, the typical business model for MMOs is set-up for pay-to-play expansions, et cetera, CoX was unique in its approach, but it also hasn't maintained numbers or allowed for resources to do a lot (as by Cryptic's often cited: "lack of resources for X, Y, or Z" responses to certain things).
I foresee CoX going that route, and the free issues becoming less "all emcompasing" for updates with the next year.
A discontinuing of the Free Issues? No.
A change to the type of content they will deliver so they can put things like power-sets, zones, epic ATs, (or whatever) and such into some sort of "buy to experience" model? I think so.
As for a CoX 2 . . . I have no opinion on it, or whether even such a thing will ever happen. I can see pros and cons to it, but am not privy to NCSoft's meetings and overall models.
Now that I have pondered this for the afternoon, I'm really happy and couldn't be more pleased for NCSoft --- having played or currently playing... Lineage II, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, City of Villains (and its beta), Dungeon Runners (and its beta), Tabula Rasa (and its beta)... I offer my full support (as I pay a year at a time, they know I'm locked in <ha>
.
I know they will not let my beloved Co* die, and regardless, I'll play till they pull the plug... (years from now).
No doom, just win.
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* Active accounts who don't have CoH or CoV should be hooked up within 24 hours.
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And I just purchased GvE for my brother .... Oh well ... Good times !!
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Read what I wrote, I said you had no legitimate expectation of this based on law or general business custom.
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I did. I suggest you now read what I wrote instead of seeing my name and pontificating. I have at no time indicated that I have a legal right to anything. I know that.
However, I have stated that it is good customer service. Customer service is often what goes above and beyond what is legally required of a business. Furthermore you claim it is against "general business custom" and yet I have pointed out that there are several examples, some of which I was personally involved in, where I feel it is a business custom and that neither of our opinions is the general case.
So we have no issue about the legal ramifications and we're having a matter of difference on the opinion portion. That somehow makes me unreasonable and you reasonable? Not likely.
A couple notes:
Those getting 'hooked up' with the other side don't get anything else that came with the purchase of hte other sid via retail (GvE goodies, free month play, access prior to today, etc.) It might be a nice gesture by NCSoft to credit in free game time another month or so for those who had one side for a while and just recently (past month at most) added the other side, but its only a nice gesture not a requirement. The EULA and such even states such things about service availability, price changes, content changes, etc. Also fee lucky you're not just getting into EQ2 without checking up on things, the new expansion is going to includeall the prior expansions and adventure packs for one 'low' price. Someone who wanted to play and decided to buy them all seperately before knowing about something coming out in under a month (suppsedly) would be out even more than the 20-30$ paid by someone here (after all EQ2 has 3 previous expansions nad 3 adventure packs, the lowest cost of one of those being 10$).
As for the handover, its not so much a 'buyout' as it is a change in management. CoX already went through this once when States stepped back from active involvement and in the opinions of some the game improved after that. As others have pointed out this isn't a new company taking over the franchise, its one partner buying out the other's interest in the franchise. We've kept the dev team almost 100% intact too which is something that RARELY happens with buyouts, and with mergers usually is just a holdover until the 'old guard' can be phased out. In this case the former-Cryptic were offered jobs with NCSoft and they accepted, something that bodes well for us and them.
As for content, CoX has provided more free content additions than any other MMO I've played which generally relegate free 'content' updates to handfuls of quests, some art, power/combat balances, and teasers for content that you have to pay to fully access. While I11 does borrowon existing content it also adds new content/features: 2 powersets, weapon customization (and if it works may lead to more powersets being customizable), Oroborous TFs/missions (not just flashback of old stuff but some new arcs as well),and purple IO sets. At the basest level none of this is 'new' content as it all builds on exising engines, systems, and content but its more than a pure rehashing of content as it builds upon and expands the existing content and engine.
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I think that I speak for a lot of folks out there when I say that I have little real understanding of the larger implications of this change, but I intend to jump to immediate conclusions about the effects it will have on the game.
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LOL!
May I use this as a signature?
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Now that I have pondered this for the afternoon, I'm really happy and couldn't be more pleased for NCSoft --- having played or currently playing... Lineage II, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, City of Villains (and its beta), Dungeon Runners (and its beta), Tabula Rasa (and its beta)... I offer my full support (as I pay a year at a time, they know I'm locked in <ha>.
I know they will not let my beloved Co* die, and regardless, I'll play till they pull the plug... (years from now).
No doom, just win.
[/ QUOTE ]Auto Assault.
Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
My dream is that this takeover means that NCSoft are now free to talk to DC Comics and release a new paid expansion that joins the Paragon universe to the DC Comic's universe through Portal Corp.
Imagine if the choice at character creation was to start in Metropolis or Gotham City.... drool....
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What would a CoH 2 bring that couldn't be done with expanding the original?
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With at least three years of hindsight regarding things that they just can't realistically change now because of the massive potential destabilization to the game engine? Quite a lot, I'd imagine. Power customization was called out as one excellent example. Castle once mentioned that if the engine were designed for diminishing returns on stacked effects (ie., tanker shields + multiple buffs, multiple rad debuffs, etc), things would be very different and a lot of the big nerfs that happened along the way might not have been necessary. For example, Weave and Maneuvers might still have a decent base Defense, if it worked that way ... but they have to plan for the case when those powers are added to other things.
During the Issue 9 beta, Posi explained how rewards are generated essentially by concatenating a string from the name of the recipe and a corresponding level, then that key is looked up in a table. That's why we had so many no-reward bugs; the game might try to drop you a level 40 Kismet, but no such recipe was defined, so you got nothing. That's why Pool A ended up being pinned to mob level. There are probably innumerable things they'd do differently, now.
Honestly, I'd be a little disappointed to discover that at no time had there been at least a person or two creating the specs for City 2.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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Now that I have pondered this for the afternoon, I'm really happy and couldn't be more pleased for NCSoft --- having played or currently playing... Lineage II, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, City of Villains (and its beta), Dungeon Runners (and its beta), Tabula Rasa (and its beta)... I offer my full support (as I pay a year at a time, they know I'm locked in <ha>.
I know they will not let my beloved Co* die, and regardless, I'll play till they pull the plug... (years from now).
No doom, just win.
[/ QUOTE ]Auto Assault.
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While NCSoft was indeed a player in the failure of AA, IMO ... the developer, NetDevil, was the majority player in that fiasco. They bit off more than they could chew, and weren't able to deliver on their promises. All NCSoft did was say "enough is enough - no more money, release SOMEthing so we can recoup SOME of our expenses!!"
You know what NetDevil should have done, IMNSHO?
[*] Pre-mission-design, come up with a set of rules for "X mission, with Y challenge, is worth Z experience points". Apply that to all factions equally;[*] Also, make sure that each level has at least 120% as many missions as would be needed to advance to the next level, due to XP awards;[*] Release with only TWO factions: Biomek, and Mutant;[*] Release with only levels 1-60, and no Ground Zero;[*] Make levels 61-80 a post-release TOP PRIORITY, including Ground Zero. Make sure it works RIGHT, the first bloody time.[*] Release the human faction, after 6 months or so, as a paid expansion.
The "two factions, not three" change makes the game smaller at Launch, and probably a bit less work would be needed as a result; this lets you focus more on what is still being released now.
Chopping out the top 20 levels, and the "massive PvP zone in the middle", does similar, IMO. Between the two, I think the workload (in man-hours) would go down by as much as 25%.
...
None of that matters here, mind you. NCSoft's only part in the AA debacle, IMO, was losing their patience. I see that now, having had the time to step back and look at the situation rationally.
CoX? They can't rush this game - it's already out, a fait accompli ...!
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What would a CoH 2 bring that couldn't be done with expanding the original?
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Here's two things:
[*] A newer, more up to date graphics engine.[*] Built-in handles to take care of Power Customisation, and I mean full power customisation, not just Weapons.
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I've seen this movie. The ending sucks.
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With something like 60 pages of posts, I'm sure you have been answered already, but just in case you haven't.
PFFFTTT! 
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Now that I have pondered this for the afternoon, I'm really happy and couldn't be more pleased for NCSoft --- having played or currently playing... Lineage II, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, City of Villains (and its beta), Dungeon Runners (and its beta), Tabula Rasa (and its beta)... I offer my full support (as I pay a year at a time, they know I'm locked in <ha>.
I know they will not let my beloved Co* die, and regardless, I'll play till they pull the plug... (years from now).
No doom, just win.
[/ QUOTE ]Auto Assault.
[/ QUOTE ]
While NCSoft was indeed a player in the failure of AA, IMO ... the developer, NetDevil, was the majority player in that fiasco. They bit off more than they could chew, and weren't able to deliver on their promises. All NCSoft did was say "enough is enough - no more money, release SOMEthing so we can recoup SOME of our expenses!!"
You know what NetDevil should have done, IMNSHO?
[*] Pre-mission-design, come up with a set of rules for "X mission, with Y challenge, is worth Z experience points". Apply that to all factions equally;[*] Also, make sure that each level has at least 120% as many missions as would be needed to advance to the next level, due to XP awards;[*] Release with only TWO factions: Biomek, and Mutant;[*] Release with only levels 1-60, and no Ground Zero;[*] Make levels 61-80 a post-release TOP PRIORITY, including Ground Zero. Make sure it works RIGHT, the first bloody time.[*] Release the human faction, after 6 months or so, as a paid expansion.
The "two factions, not three" change makes the game smaller at Launch, and probably a bit less work would be needed as a result; this lets you focus more on what is still being released now.
Chopping out the top 20 levels, and the "massive PvP zone in the middle", does similar, IMO. Between the two, I think the workload (in man-hours) would go down by as much as 25%.
...
None of that matters here, mind you. NCSoft's only part in the AA debacle, IMO, was losing their patience. I see that now, having had the time to step back and look at the situation rationally.
CoX? They can't rush this game - it's already out, a fait accompli ...!
[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, it seemed like AA was rushed in the 1-40 game, slowed down at 41-60, and not sure of anything was fast beyond that point (Golthan excluded).
Still, when compared to Tabulas Rasa, Auto Assault really was like no other MMO before. It was so unique that it just didn't appeal to many (I always needed more speed boost Mark IVs however, made running right over Biomutie vehicles so much more fun in my Billings).
Global - @Proton Sentinel
Jack Devon Crab Spider VEAT; Virtue
Mordigen Earth/Storm on Liberty and Virtue
Technological Terror Bots/FF; Liberty.
50s: Zul Vakirol Thugs/Poison; Virtue. Kiyujin Katana/SR
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What would a CoH 2 bring that couldn't be done with expanding the original?
[/ QUOTE ]
With at least three years of hindsight regarding things that they just can't realistically change now because of the massive potential destabilization to the game engine? Quite a lot, I'd imagine. Power customization was called out as one excellent example. Castle once mentioned that if the engine were designed for diminishing returns on stacked effects (ie., tanker shields + multiple buffs, multiple rad debuffs, etc), things would be very different and a lot of the big nerfs that happened along the way might not have been necessary. For example, Weave and Maneuvers might still have a decent base Defense, if it worked that way ... but they have to plan for the case when those powers are added to other things.
During the Issue 9 beta, Posi explained how rewards are generated essentially by concatenating a string from the name of the recipe and a corresponding level, then that key is looked up in a table. That's why we had so many no-reward bugs; the game might try to drop you a level 40 Kismet, but no such recipe was defined, so you got nothing. That's why Pool A ended up being pinned to mob level. There are probably innumerable things they'd do differently, now.
Honestly, I'd be a little disappointed to discover that at no time had there been at least a person or two creating the specs for City 2.
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If they did do a CoH 2, I would want all the work I put into this game in that one. Meaning, I would want my toons put in it the way they are. Meaning, the levels they are...I would not want to have to have 2 CoH/CoV games that I would have to split my time up to play, or find new/old friends in game. They "could" make CoH/CoV the Co* 2, but I really do not see a need for it. They are improving on this existing one and will continue to as I see. To make another of the same with tweeks that they do in every "Free" issue, I feel myself that a "2" is not needed.
Plus, hehe There would be bugs in that one too lol. " I " Just think one is enough. There are always ways to improve anything, and they could do it to this engine. Just my 2 influ for what its worth.
If it boild right down to it...I would just stay here.
BTW HI FMC 
Wow. Just saw all this and been reading through some of the posts. I think this is a good thing cosindering all but States is staying with the game. Now maybe we can get some EATs on Villain side.
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Now that I have pondered this for the afternoon, I'm really happy and couldn't be more pleased for NCSoft --- having played or currently playing... Lineage II, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, City of Villains (and its beta), Dungeon Runners (and its beta), Tabula Rasa (and its beta)... I offer my full support (as I pay a year at a time, they know I'm locked in <ha>.
I know they will not let my beloved Co* die, and regardless, I'll play till they pull the plug... (years from now).
No doom, just win.
[/ QUOTE ]Auto Assault.
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lol, well, what was bad from the start from what I kept hearing..I wasn't intrested.. I like to 'be a person'... (example.. I played EVE for a bit, but I wanted to get out of the ship (onto planets) and fight on land as well... so that didn't last long...)
but AA isn't the same.. that was new, Co* is already here and stable.. a little different. ^_^
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My dream is that this takeover means that NCSoft are now free to talk to DC Comics and release a new paid expansion that joins the Paragon universe to the DC Comic's universe through Portal Corp.
Imagine if the choice at character creation was to start in Metropolis or Gotham City.... drool....
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You might want to go tell SOE about that wish. After all, they have the rights to DC Online.
Imagine it now . . . grind your toon through random, useless quests and unlock Kryptonian. So, 2 years later it can be a starting "class" in the "revamped DC Online Experience".
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Uh-oh, do I sense a Digipen student?
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After some research, calling some contacts in the industry, and careful consideration, I chose Strategy over Digipen. They have a superior reputation among local software companies for placing qualified candidates. I'm currently enrolled in their Game Developer program.
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You know its funny I keep finding out about other CoX players around me but have yet to actually meet any of them lol. Heck one even works in the building acros the street from where I live.
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I wish. WoW and UO players are dime a freakin' dozen in my current RL social circles, but I get the blank look of the year whenever I mention CoH. At least my Saturday night Champions game is well-infected with CoH addiction.
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I'm gonna be different here, and post my opinions on the, "Thank You changes"...
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Full Access to City of Heroes and City of Villains®
All players with City of Heroes retail* accounts will now have access to City of Villains, and all City of Villains retail* accounts will now have access to City of Heroes. Players that didn't previously have access to "the other side" will find that they do now. Just log in to check it out!
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While this doesn't affect me, personally, due to already having access to both sides, I see this as a good thing. We lost quite a few members of our SG because they didn't have CoV, and couldn't access the base...
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Debt Wipe
After the launch of Issue 11: A Stitch in Time this Fall, we are removing Debt from all characters and giving you a fresh start. Actual date will be announced shortly. Have fun in the mean time.
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Umm... why bother? Anyone under 10 has no debt. Anyone over 10 probably doesn't pay much attention to the debt they do have. My main character is known as being, "Powered By Debt!", and I rather like that. A Free Global Rename token would be better, IMO.
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20,000 Prestige
Also after the launch of Issue 11, all Supergroups will receive an additional 20,000 Prestige per Supergroup member, meaning SGs could acquire up to 3 million Prestige based upon their Supergroup membership roster! Actual date will be announced shortly.
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This will be nice, but it doesn't amount to too much. Those groups that, "could acquire up to 3 million Prestige" probably don't have much trouble earning 3 mil Pres anyway, and smaller SGs will only get a handful of Pres. I know, they don't want to go overboard, which is why the amount is only 20k, but... well, I can't really put into words how meh this makes me feel.
Other than the Access To Both Sides thing, I really feel they could have come up with something better for the other two. As a matter of fact, I think the best thing they could have done would have been to say, "Hey, we're gonna give EVERYONE access to both games, but we also want to give 2 other small Thank You gifts. Here are the guidelines. What do YOU, the PLAYERS, think will make good Thank You gifts?", and then let us give ideas. City Of... already has a pretty good fan base, and a pretty good interaction with them. This would have just strengthend that.
Still, in the end, at least they're trying. You have to make mistakes before you can learn from them.
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Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:
Ya know what a really good thank you gift would be?
A couple more character slots per server. Say two or three. Nothing outrageous.
Hey NCsoft! The next time you do something as major and exciting and feel like doing something good for those who helped, just throw yourselves a major office party or take your employees somewhere special. Save yourselves from the whining and moaning of all these players who feel they are priviledged or deserving, for they will moan about anything you should be generous enough to give.
My Arc - #51736 Here Wolf... There Wolf... Werewolf!!!
Don't worry about the mule going blind, just load the wagon.
>")))>< ~~~~
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Hey NCsoft! The next time you do something as major and exciting and feel like doing something good for those who helped, just throw yourselves a major office party or take your employees somewhere special. Save yourselves from the whining and moaning of all these players who feel they are priviledged or deserving, for they will moan about anything you should be generous enough to give.
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Note well: if you don't also invite the players to the "somewhere special", we'll complain about that too.
Hey, I wasn't saying anything bad about what they are giving. 
Just that they said there's more coming and the slots would be a socks-knockeroffer.
I've got two accounts and bought both CoH/CoV (and no, I don't feel gypped and yes, these were individual CoH/CoV boxes not the GvE edition). The debt thing, is nice in the sense they don't have to do it, but it isn't really overwhelming. The Prestige thing is very good. I've got a solo SG and VG and that 180k+ Prestige on each side is going to be wonderful for me.
Well, for one thing, one of the huge hurdles we've been told by the developers to things like Power Customization is the way the game was built from the ground up. As well, the graphics engine, despite updates, is essentially what, four years old now?
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