Discussion: NCsoft Acquires City of Heroes!
By
AaronH,
Posted on: 2007-11-06 13:55 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
After talking with my friend today, I have a question regarding the SG bonus prestige. Is the 20K per SG member for all members or just the first 15 - like when you start up a SG in the first place?
Global: @All-American Teen
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It occurs to me that the same people that are upset about this free giveaway are likely the kind of people that get upset when a "3 day open weekend" happens and all old accounts are activated.
They probably think they should get a discount for that month.
/e threadjack
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I need to get my forum title changed (-_^)b
Edit: Hot Damn, I can't believe they gave me that title!
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What would your siggy character be even? I mean, Pohsyb backwards would get you hunted down by the Marvel Banstick....
GenericDev23426
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After talking with my friend today, I have a question regarding the SG bonus prestige. Is the 20K per SG member for all members or just the first 15 - like when you start up a SG in the first place?
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From the Announcement:
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Also after the launch of Issue 11, all Supergroups will receive an additional 20,000 Prestige per Supergroup member, meaning SGs could acquire up to 3 million Prestige based upon their Supergroup membership roster!
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It's for every member in your group at the moment that they grant it.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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Only the publisher? In the games industry, the publisher wields complete power over the developer. You need to understand how intellectual property and publishing works.
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Your comments aren't entirely true about the relationship between publishers and developers. The relationship can vary greatly, with some publishers doing pretty much everything for their developer to simply distributing the game and putting it on the shelf. It depends on how much control either party has / wants in the relationship, or alternatively how much risk either party is willing to shoulder on their own.
Cryptic appears to be moving from just developing games to also wanting to provide a lot of back-end support for them, which is certainly a step into some of the roles NCsoft was performing for them.
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Which again, begs the question, if NCSoft was 100% behind Cryptic after the acquisition of the MUO development, why wasn't this funding and resources given?
It's because NCSoft didn't want to fund a developer that is also developing for a rival publisher. Since Cryptic was developing for both NCSoft and Microsoft, some funds would definitely go generally Cryptic in general and you couldn't account for some dollars. Also there would still be staff that would share technology, resources and expertise between the two development teams. It's not like there was a chinese wall between the two teams. NCSoft, in the end, was hesitant to provide lots of money to a developer where that money might end up helping to develop a rival game. There was a serious conflict of interest and it's clear this buyout shows it.
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Believe it or not, the sale of CoH/V to NCsoft isn't ultimately a money issue. It's a project management issue. But I'll get to that.
First off, of course there are chinese walls in place. According to Jack, CoH/V was developed on one floor at Cryptic and MUO was developed on another. The two teams were kept separate. Don't forget that the other 'side' here is Marvel / Microsoft, who wouldn't want to see their money going into developing CoH/V either. Contractually there would have been clauses in place to ensure that development money went directly to the project it was earmarked for, not thrown into a slush fund that Cryptic could use for any of their projects.
Secondly MUO is being developed on a highly modified version of the Cryptic engine (according to Sporkfire who will be the MUO lead CM) so it's doubtful that a lot of technical expertise could be shared between the teams, even if they wanted to. The engines for the two games are going to be very different creatures and, apart from core optimisations, it wouldn't be possible to do day-to-day collaborations even if Cryptic were allowed to.
Finally, if there was so obviously a conflict of interest, why did Marvel / Microsoft choose Cryptic to develop MUO? Why, on hearing the news, didn't NCsoft slap Cryptic around vigorously for doing the deal? The answer is that their wasn't a conflict of interest between CoH/V and MUO coming out of Cryptic if properly managed. MUO is a Vista-only and Xbox 360 product, CoH/V is a Windows PC product. At this point in time these markets barely overlap and, even assuming that MUO launches in 2008, they aren't competing in the same space.
NCsoft kept supporting CoH/V since the MUO announcement - Lighthouse and Ex Libris have joined us since then. I have no information about who pulled the plug on the paid expansion, but find it hard to believe that NCsoft would pull funding if all that would achieve would be helping to retard CoH/V's growth (which, if MUO is a competitor as you say, would be a stupid move to make).
But going back - NCsoft buying Cryptic wasn't a money issue. It was a project management issue. Cryptic has at least two MMOs in development and has done a lot of expanding recently. During this expansion, the CoH/V team doesn't appear to have grown much (although some new people would have come in to replace those who had left). This isn't saying that CoH/V was abandoned, just that the attention of management was in setting up new projects, not tinkering with those that were established and working well. Cryptic was hiring to expand their new projects. Now, NCsoft could have come in and asked Cryptic to double the CoH/V team, but that's probably not part of their contract as a publisher. Also, doubling team sizes is a human resources, logistics and office management issue - the new Cryptic building may not have the necessary room to allow such expansion, while management may not wish to look after another recruiting drive when their focus has shifted to actually getting their games developed.
The best way for NCsoft to see the CoH/V project managed as they wanted it to be managed was to take it over. In a very friendly acquisition, Cryptic gets a money to develop their other projects (and I'm guessing not much of that money will flow into the Microsoft / Marvel-funded MUO) while NCsoft gets a new-yet-established studio that they can manage as they wish.
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That's not what I'm saying. I was just criticizing the marketing b.s. that's was drolled out to calm the masses when the MUO announcement was made. There was a clear conflict of interest and contrary to what everyone was saying that one developer could develop for two competing rival publishers in the same genre that clearly is not the case. I just think that the people who raised concerns about the funding and development of CoH by Cryptic after the MUO announcement were proven right. I'm not criticizing the change, I'm just criticizing the propaganda that was played and how some players who brought up this issue were hung out to dry that our concerns were baseless.
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Again, if properly managed there is no conflict of interest with Cryptic having MUO and CoH/V or else Microsoft / Marvel wouldn't have given Cryptic the project. NCsoft has decided they want to take the 'City of...' franchise further than Cryptic, an independent developer working on several projects, was able to. This way NCsoft gets 100% of the profits and can directly tell NCsoft NorCal which direction to go in, rather than splitting profits and having to negotiate with Cryptic about the path that CoH/V should take going forward.
Also, without commenting on individual cases, the hysterical "CoH/V is DOOOOOMed in the face of MUO!" argument is still to be proven, while CoH/V has seen some excellent features released since MUO was announced. I really haven't seen a lot of evidence that CoH/V has dramatically suffered / been put out to pasture because Cryptic took on MUO.
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The developer is essentially a work for hire which contracts out to the publisher to develope "X" work.
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If that were true, there would be no intellectual property for NCSoft to buy, because they would already own it all.
Every developer/publisher contract is different, and there are different terms for every project. MMOs are probably significantly different from most games, because of the implied ongoing development intrinsic in the project: in effect the developer is never "done."
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It's because NCSoft didn't want to fund a developer that is also developing for a rival publisher. Since Cryptic was developing for both NCSoft and Microsoft, some funds would definitely go generally Cryptic in general and you couldn't account for some dollars. Also there would still be staff that would share technology, resources and expertise between the two development teams. It's not like there was a chinese wall between the two teams. NCSoft, in the end, was hesitant to provide lots of money to a developer where that money might end up helping to develop a rival game. There was a serious conflict of interest and it's clear this buyout shows it.
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While it does happen that a developer will take publisher money and work on another project, this is called "theft" and doesn't happen for long if the publisher becomes aware of it.
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That's not what I'm saying. I was just criticizing the marketing b.s. that's was drolled out to calm the masses when the MUO announcement was made. There was a clear conflict of interest and contrary to what everyone was saying that one developer could develop for two competing rival publishers in the same genre that clearly is not the case. I just think that the people who raised concerns about the funding and development of CoH by Cryptic after the MUO announcement were proven right.
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The fact that there was an actual CoH team that could be lifted straight out of Cryptic and handed to NCSoft suggests you were wrong: there was an actual clear demarc between the CoH team and the MUO (and everyone else) team. In any case, this proves nothing because I'm certain that if NCSoft didn't buy the CoH team, Cryptic would have eventually spun them off into a separate entity, or otherwise separated them from the core company when it got close to the point where Cryptic was supporting more than one active MMO. Just for the administrative issues that would resolve if nothing else.
It *is* possible that Cryptic/Jack might have been resistant to developing things in CoH that would have competed directly with things being developed in MUO: I don't deny that. But I think the main benefits that are going to come from the spin off have less to do with MUO, and more to do with the fact that CoH will now be ruled less by Jack's "vision" of what the game should be (which had good points and bad points in my opinion), and more by what Matt and Brian's view of what the game should evolve into (which is uncharted territory, but might have more unrestricted possibilities). There are a couple of things that I know were "old school" barriers to certain things that players wanted to have, and I have it on good authority that some of those appear to be gone.
In other words, I think CoH under Statesman was more inclined to avoid doing things they thought might not work, and I think CoH under Positron/NCNorCal might be more inclined to do things even if they think there's a chance they might not work, and I think the playerbase overall will perceive that as a net benefit, because it will be a more dynamic evolution to the game (more Issues per year is probably only the tip of the iceberg, *what* they do in those issues I suspect will surprise many).
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Nothing personal, but I'm very happy that Geko is no longer related to the project. 
I don't think he was a bad designer, but he was a bit stubborn in some balance issues. Lets see what a year under the eye of the now all powerful Castle, who is only hindered by the super cool Positron, will bring 
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1. Why would Cryptic let go of possibly dozens of talented developers? Were they not so talented? Not so wanted? Was Cryptic that bad a place to work? Seems odd.
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It makes perfect business sense to both companies. The engineers "transferring" were paid from the income that Cryptic received from NCSoft as part of the CoX deal - they are the CoX team. Since Cryptic will no longer be getting that money, they'd have no way to pay those engineers, meaning layoffs or some brutally hard belt-tightening somewhere.
Meanwhile NCSoft has just taken over the development of CoX, so they have a massive demand for engineers. Who better to fill that role than the potential layoff victims at Cryptic, who just happen to have the most experience with the codebase in question anywhere.
Talk about a win-win situation.
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2. There is talk of a transition period. If just about every single person has jumped ship to NCSoft, what is there to transition? NCSoft was already part of every decision, so what is transitioning? I get the feeling that the real transition is yet to come. Where lots of new hires come in, get trained and up to speed, then one by one the old cryptic crowd stealths their way back to their old jobs/company.
I just don't get the whole EVERYBODY jumped ship. Maybe Cryptic would no longer have work for them? Get laid off or take the new job?
I find it hard to believe that Cryptic was so bad a place to work or that these employees were of so little consequence that they could jump ship or be let go en masse.
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Everyone on the CoX team transitioned. However the MUO team at Cryptic is alive and well, still in Los Gatos, and still being paid out of Microsoft's pocketbook.
It's not that Cryptic is (or ever was) a bad place to work. It's simply that it makes the most sense for everyone: Cryptic, NCSoft and the programmers themselves, for them to transfer to NCSoft's new office.
Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane.
@Alissara - an Angry Angel
The Angry Angels. When it absolutely positively has to be spanked today.
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What would a CoH 2 bring that couldn't be done with expanding the original?
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Here's two things:
[*] A newer, more up to date graphics engine.[*] Built-in handles to take care of Power Customisation, and I mean full power customisation, not just Weapons.
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While you're at it, for the love of all that is good and true in Paragon City, make the game's resource loader asynchronous. Or find some other way to stop the main thread from blocking while loading is going on.
Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane.
@Alissara - an Angry Angel
The Angry Angels. When it absolutely positively has to be spanked today.
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We'll be happy to prove you wrong. I'd like to reiterate the statement, found in a couple places in the announcements: "We are now in a position to make a major reinvestment in the City of Heroes product line.
We're aren't staffing up to sit around and do nothing
Everyone here is very excited with the prospects and plans for the future!
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Which raises an interesting question, Lighthouse. What sort of timeframe is NCSoft looking at for this ramp up and transition? If there wasn't too much hiring going on, you'd have the luxury of taking your time, since the CoX team could continue to work at Cryptic's offices in Los Gatos. For a month or two perhaps.
However the fact that you're hiring in order to expand the team implies that the hiring can't happen until the Mountain View office is operational. Is there a known ETA for when that happens, and if so are you allowed to tell us?
Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane.
@Alissara - an Angry Angel
The Angry Angels. When it absolutely positively has to be spanked today.
It won't be I13, but probably I14 is when some of the bigger changes might first be available. This gives Cryptic^H^H^H^H^H NC^2 at least six months to start pulling things together.
This sounds cool to me. An entire team devoted to CoH/V, everything under the same (new) roof. This will greatly improve many game qualities (not that they're bad now) 
.
Has there been any more word about the perquisite being given to those of us that bought -both- games seperately before NCSoft's generous gift to accounts that only bought one of the games?
Am I looking in the right place?
I've not heard anything about that, and not sure there will be. Of course I'm of the opinion that it's not needed anymore since it would take a lot of datamining and more whining for them to do something since everyone right now has both sides and they'd have to figure out just what each account purchased (some of us have multiple copies of each side plus gve). Please also keep in mind that there were a fair number of people who played CoH since beta who never picked up CoV, they are 'loyal' customers just like those of us who bought all sides. Also someone could have bought GvE a day before the unlock, does that constitute a 'loyal customer' by your reasoning? I'm not trying to degrade anyone's right to the game, just trying to point out the headaches and types of decisions to make about how to determine a reward and who's 'more deserving'. I feel they took the best, simplest, and most effective method of helping the community as a whole by just unlocking both sides for everyone. It had nothing to do with rewarding one group over another, it was meant to help every player, just like the new feature to get some bonus free time if you can get an inactive (more than 90 days) player to reactivate.
My mistake.
I wish that NCSoft would do more than Mpogs with the licence. Really CoX is amazing, but I play it like a third person adventure, and without the online portion ou could make an awesome third person action game that would be as customizable as CoX and if done under the same flagship could bring in more players.
Just curious: Did the Tabula Rasa "financial disaster" (the writer's words, not mine) precipitate this at all? The timing makes me wonder.
Korea Times link
Lighthouse has posted a couple of responses to this article. In one of them was a link to a Massively.com article that pretty much refutes the whole "financial disaster" claim that the writer of that article makes in the Korea Times article. It says, "According to what we were able to uncover this very same Korea Times staff writer has earned a reputation for writing sensationalized articles about NCsoft. In the last year he apparently has 'reported' particulars from conferences that he never actually attended."
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
We are keeping Castle, then Im happy. Honestly, He's been most helping & intent on jabbering at us about the game mechanics & what we could do to fix em & listen to folks.
Honestly, He probably one bigger reasons I still enjoy hanging out in CoX, cuz I know quality folks like himself are in there trying make stuff happen for the best.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon