Discussion: NCsoft Acquires City of Heroes!
By
AaronH,
Posted on: 2007-11-06 13:55 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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I hope... for the sake of the development team, that most of them stuck with Cryptic - In 3 years CoH will be almost seven, which is a long time for any MMO, and while Cryptic would probably just move the people to a new project, I have a feeling NCSoft would just give them the axe.
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Well, since (according to Ex) only one stayed with Cryptic, I'm guessing they don't share your pessimism.
And for the record, Lineage will be 10 years old next year, and NCSoft certainly hasn't given up on that.
Think about it like this: as others have pointed out, CoX was Cryptic's only money maker. That means NCSoft must have made them quite a pretty offer for them to give it up. In addition to that, NCSoft is creating a new studio for them, and expanding their team. Businesses don't put that kind of investment into things they don't think will be around for much longer.
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All of the CoX development team left Cryptic to stay with NCSoft, save Statesman. Take that as you will.
I don't see NCSoft's acquisition of risk in taking over CoX to be indicative that they are 'apathetic' toward the game, quite the opposite.
They are indicating an intent to 'double or triple' the staff, which we as players have been calling for since before the light went green on the servers.
In any case, a move was inevitable. We should all have forseen that there was no way Microsoft would allow Cryptic to develop both MUO and the only direct competition and trust them not to share resouces or knowledge IN THE SAME BUILDING!
So a move being inevitable, I'm glad NCSoft bought CoX.
Imagine what would have happened if Marvel or Micro$oft had gotten it.
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Or say, EA, who seem to the Galactus of the video game world.
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Or say SOE, who many in this community equate to the Dr. Doom of the video game world.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I hope... for the sake of the development team, that most of them stuck with Cryptic - In 3 years CoH will be almost seven, which is a long time for any MMO, and while Cryptic would probably just move the people to a new project, I have a feeling NCSoft would just give them the axe.
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Well, since (according to Ex) only one stayed with Cryptic, I'm guessing they don't share your pessimism.
And for the record, Lineage will be 10 years old next year, and NCSoft certainly hasn't given up on that.
Think about it like this: as others have pointed out, CoX was Cryptic's only money maker. That means NCSoft must have made them quite a pretty offer for them to give it up. In addition to that, NCSoft is creating a new studio for them, and expanding their team. Businesses don't put that kind of investment into things they don't think will be around for much longer.
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Futhermore, they've already mentioned the possibility of sequels to CoH, something that just wasn't likely to happen at Cryptic with MUO on their plate.
CoH is NCSoft's North American monthly subscription money maker. They're going to want to keep it going and grow it if at all possible.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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If not, and we all just bend to your irrational demands, then you get 1 week free, and I get the next 2 years free.
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We would need our minds erased, too. Can't have the memories without paying for them.
A "plus side" would be that the Doom-Doom-Doom-Dee-Doom McDooms would be proven correct; the loss of revenue would probably shut-down the servers. 
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I'm aware of how much it is. If you had read my posts I even gave material to it, 5-pieces off the Arby's 5-for-5 menu.
The point is that, yes, I am out $5. It doesn't matter if it is $5 or $5,000,000, the issue is that it is money that I am out.
Now, did you read what I was asking for? Did you read my suggestion?
7-10 days tacked on to my subscription.
I'm not asking for the moon and stars. I am simply asking for the $5 that even you admit I am "out" to be converted to an equal amount of time as if I had paid for it... because I did pay for it!
I'm not asking for a refund. I'm not asking for another whole month for that $5. I'm asking an amount of time that the $5 would have gotten me if I had been able to make such minimal payments. At $15/month, that's 1/3rd a month or... 7-10 days depending on which month you choose to pick (Feb 7, most others 10). I'm not even demanding that they pro-rate it at any of the more economical rates one gets for prepaying for months/a year in advance.
I fail to see how that is in any way unreasonable or unjustified given the specific circumstances. So far I have been given unreasonable responses.
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Yes, I know, I am weak... I am feeding a troll...
BUT
Let's say for [censored] and giggles you knew in advance the freebie expansion was coming. Since no date has been announced, you really don't know when it's coming. It could be next week, next month, who knows.
Is the $5 you paid (and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt in that you bought an online code, not a boxed retail version, cause if you did the latter then you really are pathetic in your mock-indignity) worth the extra enjoyment you've gotten from playing the game now, instead of waiting weeks?
I mean, how many hours of CoV have you logged since you bought it? 10? 20? More?
$5 won't get you into a 2 hour movie or buy 70 mins of music. For many people $5 is about 2-3 days of cable TV (for most that's maybe 4-6 hours worth during the week). Might get you a beer in a pub, or be enough for the cover charge.
So has the enjoyment you've gotten from playing CoV since you bought it worth $5?
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All of the CoX development team left Cryptic to stay with NCSoft, save Statesman. Take that as you will.
I don't see NCSoft's acquisition of risk in taking over CoX to be indicative that they are 'apathetic' toward the game, quite the opposite.
They are indicating an intent to 'double or triple' the staff, which we as players have been calling for since before the light went green on the servers.
In any case, a move was inevitable. We should all have forseen that there was no way Microsoft would allow Cryptic to develop both MUO and the only direct competition and trust them not to share resouces or knowledge IN THE SAME BUILDING!
So a move being inevitable, I'm glad NCSoft bought CoX.
Imagine what would have happened if Marvel or Micro$oft had gotten it.
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Or say, EA, who seem to the Galactus of the video game world.
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Or say SOE, who many in this community equate to the Dr. Doom of the video game world.
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Iron Man is a bigger villain than Dr. Doom these days. 
I like the Galactus analogy since he's a giant entity with an unending hunger for consuming things. Which seems to be how EA is treating other studios.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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I think it's great news personally.
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I would like to hear your opinion on it in 6-12 months, to be honest.
NCSoft reports show that CoX isn't drawing in many new, sustained subscribers. Let alone maintaining a steady draw to current ones. It isn't a "DOOOOOM" issue, mind you, but the numbers are not holding or growing.
Now, NCSoft is hiring enough programmers and developers, as they say, to in essence double or triple the current CoH team. They've even moved it to a brand new studio location.
They want to expand and better market the I.P. and Franchise.
All of that costs money. And since that extra overhead is not being paid for by a steady influx of new subscribers, that means a necessary overhaul to the Business Model for CoX. I'm telling you this from the point of view of a CEO, myself.
So, now I wonder . . .
After I11 and I12, one about to release and the other more than likely already in the works, how many FREE Issues after that will be the "wow and cool" factors that people here have come to expect?
How many will be made to be less for free, so money can be made off of new stand-alone/expansions (ala CoV) that will be tacked on for an extra $5, $10 or so a month to the sub-fees?
How many features that we've come to expect from the Free Issues (mainly new powers, possible epic ATs, and zones) will, instead become pay-for-expansions. And will they run the normal $30? The $10 model of the old EQ2 Adventure Packs? or a combination thereof?
Because the business model as it is now, with the non-growing subscriber base, cannot support the overhead expansions they are now enacting.
And should any new business model not pan out for NCSoft, how long until Dev teams are transfered to the "next big project" and the aging CoX is just left on skeleton, development life-support? Because, you don't actually believe this new office/studio will ONLY be a CoX facility, do you? Not over the long-term, I'll bet you.
Those are hard factors in any business model, especially when a company promises larger teams, dedicated offices, expansion to the franchise, et cetera for a product that is not consistently drawing in new customers. They have to make the money back some how, as well as gain the revenue to invest in such endeavors over the long-haul.
So, is this a good or bad change (NCSoft owning it all and promising such nice plans)? Time will tell. But I'll bet my annual salary there will be some serious business model changes for CoX in the coming 6-12 months.
Then, you decide how you feel.
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I hope... for the sake of the development team, that most of them stuck with Cryptic - In 3 years CoH will be almost seven, which is a long time for any MMO, and while Cryptic would probably just move the people to a new project, I have a feeling NCSoft would just give them the axe.
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Well, since (according to Ex) only one stayed with Cryptic, I'm guessing they don't share your pessimism.
And for the record, Lineage will be 10 years old next year, and NCSoft certainly hasn't given up on that.
Think about it like this: as others have pointed out, CoX was Cryptic's only money maker. That means NCSoft must have made them quite a pretty offer for them to give it up. In addition to that, NCSoft is creating a new studio for them, and expanding their team. Businesses don't put that kind of investment into things they don't think will be around for much longer.
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Oh, I'm not implying that NCSoft will give up on COH any faster than Cryptic would have. But the fact is that once a game gets old, it gets less popular, and it needs less people to tend it. By the time an MMO is 7 or 8, well, that's ancient. It's still going to have it's fans, but not as many, and it isn't as feasable to keep as many people on staff for it.
No matter who owns it.
I think the cries that NCSoft will shut down CoH faster than Cryptic are largely false. That's not to say that the game is going to last forever. And this indeed COULD be read as a sign that the servers will be shut down soon (although I personally wouldn't read it that way). But if that's the case, they'd have been shut down no matter who was owning it. When a game's time is done, pretty much anyone running it could see the writing on the wall.
My point was only that NCSoft and Cryptic have two vastly different styles of dealing with problems and dealing with customers. I happen to prefer Cryptic's methods over NCSoft's - at least what I've seen in this game. Other people obviously prefer NCSoft... that's their perogative. That's why I said.. it all depends on what you dig.
Zeus - god of reiteration
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Businesses don't put that kind of investment into things they don't think will be around for much longer.
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That depends on the company. I've worked for some real stinkers that thought throwing money and people at a poorly conceived project was the cure for all ills. Not that I think that's the case here. Just doing my part in the fight against sweeping generalizations.
This post brought to you by the Thunderfire Campaign to Out-Weird the Internet.
Score so far: Thunderfire-0, Internet-157893678
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Or say SOE, who many in this community equate to the Dr. Doom of the video game world.
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Don't be dissin' the Doomster. He's far and away smarter than SOE. 
This post brought to you by the Thunderfire Campaign to Out-Weird the Internet.
Score so far: Thunderfire-0, Internet-157893678
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I think it's great news personally.
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I would like to hear your opinion on it in 6-12 months, to be honest.
NCSoft reports show that CoX isn't drawing in many new, sustained subscribers. Let alone maintaining a steady draw to current ones. It isn't a "DOOOOOM" issue, mind you, but the numbers are not holding or growing.
Now, NCSoft is hiring enough programmers and developers, as they say, to in essence double or triple the current CoH team. They've even moved it to a brand new studio location.
They want to expand and better market the I.P. and Franchise.
All of that costs money. And since that extra overhead is not being paid for by a steady influx of new subscribers, that means a necessary overhaul to the Business Model for CoX. I'm telling you this from the point of view of a CEO, myself.
So, now I wonder . . .
After I11 and I12, one about to release and the other more than likely already in the works, how many FREE Issues after that will be the "wow and cool" factors that people here have come to expect?
How many will be made to be less for free, so money can be made off of new stand-alone/expansions (ala CoV) that will be tacked on for an extra $5, $10 or so a month to the sub-fees?
How many features that we've come to expect from the Free Issues (mainly new powers, possible epic ATs, and zones) will, instead become pay-for-expansions. And will they run the normal $30? The $10 model of the old EQ2 Adventure Packs? or a combination thereof?
Because the business model as it is now, with the non-growing subscriber base, cannot support the overhead expansions they are now enacting.
And should any new business model not pan out for NCSoft, how long until Dev teams are transfered to the "next big project" and the aging CoX is just left on skeleton, development life-support? Because, you don't actually believe this new office/studio will ONLY be a CoX facility, do you? Not over the long-term, I'll bet you.
Those are hard factors in any business model, especially when a company promises larger teams, dedicated offices, expansion to the franchise, et cetera for a product that is not consistently drawing in new customers. They have to make the money back some how, as well as gain the revenue to invest in such endeavors over the long-haul.
So, is this a good or bad change (NCSoft owning it all and promising such nice plans)? Time will tell. But I'll bet my annual salary there will be some serious business model changes for CoX in the coming 6-12 months.
Then, you decide how you feel.
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Well one thing you've forgotten. Now that Cryptic is out of the picture most of the money they earned for CoX is now in the hands of NCSoft (save whatever they are paying Cryptic to license the game engine and tools).
I would have to think Cryptic was getting the lion's share of profits from the CoX franchise, which now all goes back to NCSoft. With more money they can hire more people to work on creating more content, fixing more bugs, etc. etc. etc.
Now this is not to say that some of that extra cash isn't going to be diverted to propping up other *cough tabula rasa cough* titles, but more money all around is usually a good thing.
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The issue is solely the 72-96 hours from my purchase of CoV to it being given out for free. That's a pretty expensive 72-96 hours compared to the rest of the time. I do not think it is beyond the pale for NCSoft to look at that small segment (say within 30-60 days of the activation) and addressing those users accordingly. That is just good solid customer service.
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No, it's somebody trying to scam something for free that they don't deserve.
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Say what? How do you figure?
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You bought the game - you got what you paid for. (And what you paid for is far more than what they are giving away for free. Consider the free month of play and the extra character slots for example.)
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How is that a scam? I'm a returning customer who decided to purchase the game right before an unknown event that would have saved me money.
I am a returning customer who was 3-4 days on the wrong side of a major announcement. Like I said, I don't think that it is beyond the pale that NCSoft address that admittedly small segment. That's not a scam, that's an honest, tempered concern.
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So what? I buy stuff all the time that goes on sale or clearance the next week. I don't run down the store complaining I was badly treated - I bought what I wanted, when I wanted, and paid the going rate.
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What's beyond the pale and certainly not tempered is the responses from people such as yourself.
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Don't want a response - don't post. It's been like that since the dawn of the BBS era.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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After I11 and I12, one about to release and the other more than likely already in the works, how many FREE Issues after that will be the "wow and cool" factors that people here have come to expect?
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You realize, of course, that Issues 9-11 exhausted the EvilGeko's wishlist except for fixing MoG? And that change would take fifteen minutes of Castle's time if I can only talk Positron into it.
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How many features that we've come to expect from the Free Issues (mainly new powers, possible epic ATs, and zones) will, instead become pay-for-expansions. And will they run the normal $30? The $10 model of the old EQ2 Adventure Packs? or a combination thereof?
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Considering that I have EQ2's Rise of Kunark expansion reserved for next week, I might be the wrong person to be looking for solidarity for on this point.
I have no problems with paid expansions. EQ2's aforementioned expansion basically creates another 25% more playspace and adds an estimated 1000 quests. It adds a new player race, more powers, two gigantic zones (think four times the size of Independence Port), a number of smaller zones and instances, 8 new raids, a buttload of loot, and new crafting options.
I would be estatic if CoX came out with a similar expansion and gladly pay the $40 I'll be paying for RoK next week.
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So, is this a good or bad change (NCSoft owning it all and promising such nice plans)? Time will tell. But I'll bet my annual salary there will be some serious business model changes for CoX in the coming 6-12 months.
Then, you decide how you feel.
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I can only hope some of the things you hinted at come to pass, I might feel even better about this decision than I do now!
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I would be estatic if CoX came out with a similar expansion and gladly pay the $40 I'll be paying for RoK next week.
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QFT
Classic Dungeon Crawl Arc ID: 2232-"A satirical look at your average dungeon"
Down the Rabbit Hole Arc IDs: 24346 24397-"Rescue a little girl from an insidious dream invader."
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I hope... for the sake of the development team, that most of them stuck with Cryptic - In 3 years CoH will be almost seven, which is a long time for any MMO, and while Cryptic would probably just move the people to a new project, I have a feeling NCSoft would just give them the axe.
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Well, since (according to Ex) only one stayed with Cryptic, I'm guessing they don't share your pessimism.
And for the record, Lineage will be 10 years old next year, and NCSoft certainly hasn't given up on that.
Think about it like this: as others have pointed out, CoX was Cryptic's only money maker. That means NCSoft must have made them quite a pretty offer for them to give it up. In addition to that, NCSoft is creating a new studio for them, and expanding their team. Businesses don't put that kind of investment into things they don't think will be around for much longer.
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Oh, I'm not implying that NCSoft will give up on COH any faster than Cryptic would have. But the fact is that once a game gets old, it gets less popular, and it needs less people to tend it. By the time an MMO is 7 or 8, well, that's ancient. It's still going to have it's fans, but not as many, and it isn't as feasable to keep as many people on staff for it.
No matter who owns it.
I think the cries that NCSoft will shut down CoH faster than Cryptic are largely false. That's not to say that the game is going to last forever. And this indeed COULD be read as a sign that the servers will be shut down soon (although I personally wouldn't read it that way). But if that's the case, they'd have been shut down no matter who was owning it. When a game's time is done, pretty much anyone running it could see the writing on the wall.
My point was only that NCSoft and Cryptic have two vastly different styles of dealing with problems and dealing with customers. I happen to prefer Cryptic's methods over NCSoft's - at least what I've seen in this game. Other people obviously prefer NCSoft... that's their perogative. That's why I said.. it all depends on what you dig.
Zeus - god of reiteration
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Well I think the fact that CoX is no longer in Cryptic's hands means there's a good chance NCSoft is going to attempt to revitalize it as a direct competitor to MUO.
It always seemed a little sketchy that Cryptic had two similar-themed games for two different publishers. And I'm sure this was something that greatly concerned NCSoft -- the likelyhood is very high that Cryptic would have diverted more and more resources from CoX for MUO as needed -- great for Cryptic, lousy for NCSoft. Let's face it, compromise is NOT one of Jack's strong suits.
And why on earth would NCSoft go thru all the trouble of buying CoX if they just planned on burying it? They wouldn't, it doesn't make any kind of sense. Logically you would buy it so you could pump it up as a direct competitor to any other superhero themed games coming down the pike.
Seems pretty clear and simple to me. With Cryptic owning both games there is a distinct conflict of interest issue. if CoX continues to go strong and MUO tanks, what would stop MS from suing Cryptic for just such a reason? Or vice-versa with NCSoft if CoX tanks.
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All of that costs money. And since that extra overhead is not being paid for by a steady influx of new subscribers, that means a necessary overhaul to the Business Model for CoX. I'm telling you this from the point of view of a CEO, myself.
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Absolutely true. But we don't know what % of the profits were going directly to Cryptic, do we? We have to balance that into the equation. How much MORE of our subscription fees are now staying with NCSoft rather than being funneled to Cryptic?
How % of the buyout cost will be paid for by that sudden influx of income?
What % of the ex-Cryptic developers' salaries will be covered by that extra income?
EDIT: Arrrrr, Mystic beat me.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Businesses don't put that kind of investment into things they don't think will be around for much longer.
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That depends on the company. I've worked for some real stinkers that thought throwing money and people at a poorly conceived project was the cure for all ills. Not that I think that's the case here. Just doing my part in the fight against sweeping generalizations.
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True enough; I should have said that good businesses don't do that. And I think NCsoft has proved themselves in that regard; with Auto Assault, they've shown they won't keep funding things they don't think can succeed, and with Lineage, they've shown willingness to stick with a workhorse of a product for as long as people are still enthusiastic about it.
I honestly don't think CoX could be in better hands; they've been more successful in the MMO market than any other company in history, with the exception of Blizzard. However, Blizzard's a one-trick pony, in the MMO world. (A 90 ft tall, fire-breathing, world devouring, pony, but still...) NCSoft, on the other hand, has had multiple successes, and the fact that they look at CoX and think that it has a future worth investing in, to me, is nothing but good news for us.
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All of that costs money. And since that extra overhead is not being paid for by a steady influx of new subscribers, that means a necessary overhaul to the Business Model for CoX.
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Of course the option that the overheard might be covered by the current subscriber base is one that seems to have occurred to you. Maybe their new business model is a more slender profit margin - but guaranteeing it by maintaining the existing usebase.
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I'm telling you this from the point of view of a CEO, myself.
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Your point of view is one who wants to cry dooooom!, but lacks enough confidence in his convictions to be willing to stand behind them. A CEO should review all the options - not just the ones that support his preordained conclusion.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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Well one thing you've forgotten. Now that Cryptic is out of the picture most of the money they earned for CoX is now in the hands of NCSoft (save whatever they are paying Cryptic to license the game engine and tools).
I would have to think Cryptic was getting the lion's share of profits from the CoX franchise, which now all goes back to NCSoft. With more money they can hire more people to work on creating more content, fixing more bugs, etc. etc. etc.
Now this is not to say that some of that extra cash isn't going to be diverted to propping up other *cough tabula rasa cough* titles, but more money all around is usually a good thing.
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I haven't forgotten anything.
This past summer my company approached Cryptic with an offer to continue the CoH Novel line as a licensee. Cryptic, in turn, informed us we would have to talk to NCSoft (in the end we decided not to pursue it as an endeavor, and just focus on our own I.P., but that has nothing to do with anything with NCSoft; but rather our own shareholders).
Which started to make us hypothesize as to the ownership relationship between Cryptic and NCSoft in regards to CoH/V.
Now, I have no inside knowledge to that relationship, of course, but can only hazzard a guess if NCSoft was the one that handled all CoH Franchise/I.P. licensing.
How much of the fiscial pie was Cryptic getting? How much development was already paid for by NCSoft? How did the cut of revenue and profits go?
No idea. But it seemed to us that NCSoft seemed to control more of it, anyway.
Again, can't say for certain . . . don't have people on the inside. But it appeared to be a far, far different relationship than with Davis-Panzer Productions and MGM (the repersentative) over licensing for Highlander (before anyone asks, no . . . not happening . . . we walked away from the deal).
And, again, let's remember back to the launch of CoV and the fact that Statesman even stated at the boards that whether or not it would be included in te $15/mo was NCSoft's decision, but that Cryptic was fighting for it to go that way.
So, again, I'm in a hovering position and waiting-to-see the next year's worth of announcements and press releases. But my business sense says that portions of this model are going to have to change if they are investing this kind of overhead into CoX. Cryptic seemed to really not want to change the model (as shown with CoV's launch as I stated above) . . . but they also seemed to suffer from a resource anemia as well.
Lineage does well for them, it appears. Auto-Assault did not. I somehow I doubt Dungeon Runners is a major revenue bringer.
Meanwhile, they are very interested in Console Platform Development, and In-Game ads for some of their titles (stated, thus far, not to include CoX).
They also just launched T.R., which, I am sure, has a while to go before they even hit the break-even point (as most MMOs do).
Which also shows me, the money isn't exactly ever-flowing, either. They already have a lot invested elsewhere, and I just don't see the free-for-all CoX business model continuing beyond the 12 months or so it takes to truly facilitate the transition and the hiring/training of extra development staff.
That's what my experience tells me. I could be wrong.
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Your point of view is one who wants to cry dooooom!, but lacks enough confidence in his convictions to be willing to stand behind them. A CEO should review all the options - not just the ones that support his preordained conclusion.
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Actually I don't feel a need to cry DOOM at all. However, I do see the business model needing to change. My point is, at this stage I can't see the move as a good or bad thing. It is, indeed, too early to tell because we are not privy to all the details.
I can neither cry DOOM nor share in the optimism at this stage for just that reason.
QR
My self I see cryptic/MS suing NCSoft/CoX if a CoX2 is going to be worked on
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We'll be happy to prove you wrong. I'd like to reiterate the statement, found in a couple places in the announcements: "We are now in a position to make a major reinvestment in the City of Heroes product line.
We're aren't staffing up to sit around and do nothing 
Everyone here is very excited with the prospects and plans for the future!
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I was excited to read this, because frankly, I like CoH and I was worried that Cryptic was going to have a conflict of interest because of MUO, and it might become a casualty. Now, it has a team behind it that is dedicated to it. Since I think in any superhero shakeout, CoH has a big edge with me, I'd be sad if it was treated as second best.
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QR
My self I see cryptic/MS suing NCSoft/CoX if a CoX2 is going to be worked on
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On what basis? This deal allows precisely that outcome.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I don't agree you're out anything. You bought something. Somebody else got that same something for free. Oh well. That happens occassionally.
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The person I was replying to did. I used their terms that I was "out 5 bucks."
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No what you're asking for is for them to make a change in their payment system for you. That's unreasonable. It seems reasonable to you because you're only thinking of yourself. You aren't thinking of how difficult this might be to accomplish or how it sets a bad precedent.
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Quite the contrary they are perfectly capable of issuing subscription credit. It has happened in the past in day increments. Furthermore I am not only thinking of myself. I have clearly indicated that anyone within a reasonable time frame should also be accorded the same credit. I cited 30-60 days as a possible range. So no, I'm not asking for anything that hasn't already been done and I'm not only thinking of my specific case. My specific case just happens to be the example I am most familiar with.
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Your request is unreasonable and unjustified, because you have no legitimate expectation of a refund based on the law or even general business custom.
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Again you're wrong. As other people have cited here Apple did much the same thing when they lowered the price on the iPhone by $100. Furthermore there are many other examples companies offering some sort of compensation where a fundamental change in the price structure of a product could be taken by customers as shafting them out of something.
Does it happen 100% of the time? No.
Does it not happen 100% of the time? No.
It is up to the individual businesses. However if you think it never happens you're flat out wrong. I've worked for several companies who did just that because they were doing right by the small segment of customers during that transition who could feel slighted. That is good customer relations. It is by no means mandatory but in spite of what you and your mean-spirited compatriots think it is not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination.
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You opinion about what is a reasonable response doesn't seem to based in reason, only in your emotional attachment to $5.
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Nope, it is based on past experiences with other companies, other cites in this very topic and my own personal experiences being on the business end of the transitional process. Every single one of those is based on reason surrounding the principle of the transaction and not the attachment to the money. If it were about the attachment to the money I would've threatened to or have already quit. I have not. I have offered a reasonable set of parameters, a simple way to redress the issue and have done so in a reasonable, logical manner. If you want to see emotion look at the replies to my messages.
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I would guess that each of us, without exception*, has a favorite axe to grind and hopes it gets more attention with a larger dev team.
*OK, maybe not EvilGeko.
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There's always MoG.
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You make EG sad...
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He can respec out of it an unlimited number of times: he'll be fine.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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The point is that, yes, I am out $5. It doesn't matter if it is $5 or $5,000,000, the issue is that it is money that I am out.
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You aren't out jack. You paid for a product that you apparently wanted at the time. You have the product you paid for and you paid a price that you thought was fair at the time. So you are out nothing.
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Now, did you read what I was asking for? Did you read my suggestion?
7-10 days tacked on to my subscription.
I'm not asking for the moon and stars. I am simply asking for the $5 that even you admit I am "out" to be converted to an equal amount of time as if I had paid for it... because I did pay for it!
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I don't agree you're out anything. You bought something. Somebody else got that same something for free. Oh well. That happens occassionally.
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I'm not asking for a refund. I'm not asking for another whole month for that $5. I'm asking an amount of time that the $5 would have gotten me if I had been able to make such minimal payments. At $15/month, that's 1/3rd a month or... 7-10 days depending on which month you choose to pick (Feb 7, most others 10). I'm not even demanding that they pro-rate it at any of the more economical rates one gets for prepaying for months/a year in advance.
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No what you're asking for is for them to make a change in their payment system for you. That's unreasonable. It seems reasonable to you because you're only thinking of yourself. You aren't thinking of how difficult this might be to accomplish or how it sets a bad precedent.
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I fail to see how that is in any way unreasonable or unjustified given the specific circumstances. So far I have been given unreasonable responses.
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Your request is unreasonable and unjustified, because you have no legitimate expectation of a refund based on the law or even general business custom.
You opinion about what is a reasonable response doesn't seem to based in reason, only in your emotional attachment to $5.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.