Discussion: NCsoft Acquires City of Heroes!
By
AaronH,
Posted on: 2007-11-06 13:55 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
FlyingMonkeyCode always seems to make sence. Listen to flying monkeycode!
Plus I can say the same as he just said. Another thing if ya wait for the free, there might not ever be a free 
Think about it.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but how about a badge for the people who bought (or buy!) both CoH and CoV? I don't really mind giving away free access to both versions, but it would be great to get a badge showing off the fact that I bought both. And nearly free for the devs, except for paychecks for the code and art teams. :P
i was thinking the same thing earlier tonight. it'd be an easy way to give people a little something special, maybe even quell a little bit of the sore feelings some other people have been having.
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Did you read THIS?
I'd imagine that's how they all feel. I'm sure I would...
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I missed that. And it's pretty much the kind of response I expected from the majority of the staff leaving Cryptic to remain with the game.
War Witch, glad you're sticking around. Same goes for the rest of the team.
Now get I-11 out the door! I needs me some dualblade action and Bill Z needs his new claws.
Be well, people of CoH.
I'm a little gutted though >.> A few months ago I bought CoV XD If I'd waited a few months I'd have the freebee 
Ah well 
Whats this about a "Special gift" for those who already have CoH and CoV? :3 Huzzah! I get the special gift!
The way I see it is this:
If they're being honest we're gonna see an increase in Customer Service (hopefully) aka shorter outstanding ticket times.
x2 or x3 the staff means more bug fixes and more issues with a lil more quality, perhaps even getting rid of some delays we normally see with issues.
More people to work on Power Customization... 
I very happy about this whole deal. Congrats to the old and new NC crew.
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Edited to rub it in: Neologisms FTW!
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I love you. Are you married?
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I am, sorry. I believe in polyamory, but my relationship is currently explicitly monogamous. I'll send you a PM if this changes.*
* KIDDING! Please, no flowers, valentines, or chocolates. OK, maybe chocolates*.
* Kidding again. I'm diabetic*.
* Wish I was kidding this time.
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Don't worry, I won't tell if you won't
And I'm talking abou the chocolate not the other things.... honestly!
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First of all (and any forum being what it is, I know this will miss some of us) try to read my entire post before assuming I am crying DOOOOOOOM or speaking negatively about this management change.
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Likewise:
1. Why would Cryptic let go of possibly dozens of talented developers? Were they not so talented? Not so wanted? Was Cryptic that bad a place to work? Seems odd.
2. There is talk of a transition period. If just about every single person has jumped ship to NCSoft, what is there to transition? NCSoft was already part of every decision, so what is transitioning? I get the feeling that the real transition is yet to come. Where lots of new hires come in, get trained and up to speed, then one by one the old cryptic crowd stealths their way back to their old jobs/company.
I just don't get the whole EVERYBODY jumped ship. Maybe Cryptic would no longer have work for them? Get layed off or take the new job?
I find it hard to believe that Cryptic was so bad a place to work or that these employees were of so little consequence that they could jump ship or be let go en masse.
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Did you read THIS?
I'd imagine that's how they all feel. I'm sure I would...
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That is enlightening....
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No, what Im saying is I dont want someone getting the EXACT thing I paid for free.
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The people who bought either just CoH or just CoV most likely paid more than GvE costs now. So if you don't like the fact that people can now get something that used to cost more, you should be defending NCSoft's decision to open up both sides for everyone. The people buying GvE today get not just the same thing, but more for cheaper than CoH and CoV each cost when they went live. By your logic, this isn't fair, and NCSoft is just addressing that inequity.
What people(the doomsayers) seem to forget is...The ones like myself that paid for both seperately and then so forth and so forth, there wouldnt be a (Free). People like myself and others are the ones that help fund the ability for them to give (Free). Uggg! People stop already. Its done, you cant change it. They did it. Its done I say, Done! Im not upset about it. I paid for what people are getting free now...so what..was my choice, doesnt upset me none, and im poor 
Live be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Its a good thing, you'll see. Now have a cookie.
I've purchased every edition there is (other than CoV Standard because I got the Collector's Edition; I'm not THAT crazy! ), and I'm happy that both sides are being opened up for everyone. Kudos to the City Of team for the big move, and thanks for the thank you's, even the ones that don't benefit me personally, because I know they benefit the overall community. This year has been the best year so far for City Of, and I see greater things to come.
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I dont want CoX to be on the way out. I dont want NCSoft to TREAT it like its on the way out. Id have been just fine with this announcement if it HADNT included gifts to valued customers.
But it did include gifts, and those gifts are aimed at just about everyone else who plays CoX. And then I go back and look at my Auto Assault gifts, and my Tabula Rasa gifts, and I shudder.
In the end, I really dont want gifts from NCSoft on a game I love. It just doesnt bode well.
Im happy to be proven wrong.
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We'll be happy to prove you wrong. I'd like to reiterate the statement, found in a couple places in the announcements: "We are now in a position to make a major reinvestment in the City of Heroes product line.
We're aren't staffing up to sit around and do nothing
Everyone here is very excited with the prospects and plans for the future!
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Ok, then it begs the question: Then why wasn't this re-investment done earlier??
When Cryptic announced the MUO I seem to remember a very positive State of Game Address by the head designer which made some very extreme promises to add huge features to the game only for such to be retracted and given the usual "not enough resources" reasoning. In addition, all the marketing copy was stating that NCSoft was still 100% behind Cryptic despite landing the MUO assignment and will greatly support expansion of the CoH.
Now we're told this acquisition had to be done for the real re-investment. Why weren't those resources given then, when presumably Cryptic was at its strongest, with the all the legacy developers and the new hires. When there would be a sharing of expertise and skills. Now half of Cryptic has left to form a new studio under NCSoft. It just doesn't add up, sorry.
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Don't worry, I won't tell if you won't
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I appreciate the sentiment, but the A1C test never lies.
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And I'm talking about the chocolate not the other things.... honestly!
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I believe you... honestly!
This post brought to you by the Thunderfire Campaign to Out-Weird the Internet.
Score so far: Thunderfire-0, Internet-157893678
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Ok, then it begs the question: Then why wasn't this re-investment done earlier??
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Because at the time NCSoft was only the publisher, and Cryptic was the developer. Had NCSoft devoted more resources to the game, they would have wanted an increased share of the profits. And that's essentially what they did. They negotiated for complete rights to the game, and now can devote more resources to the game, while reaping all the rewards of their investment.
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When Cryptic announced the MUO I seem to remember a very positive State of Game Address by the head designer which made some very extreme promises to add huge features to the game only for such to be retracted and given the usual "not enough resources" reasoning. In addition, all the marketing copy was stating that NCSoft was still 100% behind Cryptic despite landing the MUO assignment and will greatly support expansion of the CoH.
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I think I9, I10, and the soon-to-be-released I11 did add "huge features" to the game. The fact that they can now do even more just makes things that much better, but that doesn't take away from what they have already done.
NCSoft was 100% behind Cryptic, and I'm sure would have continued to support Cryptic had the decision not been made to acquire the City Of rights from them. It's not like they stabbed Cryptic in the back and stole the rights from under them. It was a mutual agreement that both companies felt would best benefit each of them in the long run. And NCSoft is starting a whole new office and hiring more people to work on City Of. If that's not greatly supporting the expansion of City Of, I'm not sure what is.
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Now we're told this acquisition had to be done for the real re-investment. Why weren't those resources given then, when presumably Cryptic was at its strongest, with the all the legacy developers and the new hires. When there would be a sharing of expertise and skills. Now half of Cryptic has left to form a new studio under NCSoft. It just doesn't add up, sorry.
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Cryptic isn't dying. The "half of Cryptic" that left were all the City Of people (except for 1 or 2 people that stayed behind), so the rest of the people at Cryptic are going to continue what they were always doing. And not much is going to change for those who left either; they are just going to be paid by somebody else and work in a different building.
You're making is sound as if Cryptic was barely keeping City Of alive, and NCSoft swooped in, buying out Cryptic's share of City Of on the cheap, breaking apart the development team in the process, and leaving us with a skeleton crew of developers serving only to prolong the inevitable demise of the franchise. I guess I'm just not seeing it that way. All indications seem, to me at least, to show that NCSoft saw something that was good, but could be made even better.
doronknob, you name makes me want ot fart an drun to a door so i don't get punched a lot
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Because at the time NCSoft was only the publisher, and Cryptic was the developer. Had NCSoft devoted more resources to the game, they would have wanted an increased share of the profits. And that's essentially what they did. They negotiated for complete rights to the game, and now can devote more resources to the game, while reaping all the rewards of their investment.
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Only the publisher? In the games industry, the publisher wields complete power over the developer. You need to understand how intellectual property and publishing works. The developer is essentially a work for hire which contracts out to the publisher to develope "X" work. The publisher in turn provides funding to the developer and dictates marketing and support, oversees development decisions and when to publish. The publisher in turn gets to reap the profits of selling the units published, the profits from the subscription fees and almost all ancillary licenses. The developer in turn sometimes gets a percentage royalty after profitability is established at a certain level. And this royalty is certainly not at the level of which the publisher gets his slice of the revenue generated from unit sales and subscriptions.
The publisher typically wields all the cards. Look at EA, Activision and Take Two. The publisher is the one who is the most powerful. Do you think Irrational tells Take Two what to do or what their profit percentage is? That's why so many games are released buggy or early, it's because the publisher demanded it.
Again, it doesn't add up. NCSoft would be the immediate beneficiary of the increased funding for City of Heroes. Why wasn't this increased funding done before?
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I think I9, I10, and the soon-to-be-released I11 did add "huge features" to the game. The fact that they can now do even more just makes things that much better, but that doesn't take away from what they have already done.
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Not to the level that was promised with the planned paid expansion set that was announced, then withdrew. Our free Issues, while great, was not in the same scope as those plans that were announced. I seem to remember that CoH was going to be updated with all new powersets across ALL archetypes, not including additions through the standards issues. But...it wasn't done, due to the same excuse that is always given (which I'm sure is very true) of not enough resources. Heck, the Cathedral of Pain/Items of Power/Supergroup base raids feature is still not fixed. One of the single most hyped and marketed features for City of Villains.
Which again, begs the question, if NCSoft was 100% behind Cryptic after the acquisition of the MUO development, why wasn't this funding and resources given?
It's because NCSoft didn't want to fund a developer that is also developing for a rival publisher. Since Cryptic was developing for both NCSoft and Microsoft, some funds would definitely go generally Cryptic in general and you couldn't account for some dollars. Also there would still be staff that would share technology, resources and expertise between the two development teams. It's not like there was a chinese wall between the two teams. NCSoft, in the end, was hesitant to provide lots of money to a developer where that money might end up helping to develop a rival game. There was a serious conflict of interest and it's clear this buyout shows it.
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You're making is sound as if Cryptic was barely keeping City Of alive, and NCSoft swooped in, buying out Cryptic's share of City Of on the cheap, breaking apart the development team in the process, and leaving us with a skeleton crew of developers serving only to prolong the inevitable demise of the franchise. I guess I'm just not seeing it that way. All indications seem, to me at least, to show that NCSoft saw something that was good, but could be made even better.
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That's not what I'm saying. I was just criticizing the marketing b.s. that's was drolled out to calm the masses when the MUO announcement was made. There was a clear conflict of interest and contrary to what everyone was saying that one developer could develop for two competing rival publishers in the same genre that clearly is not the case. I just think that the people who raised concerns about the funding and development of CoH by Cryptic after the MUO announcement were proven right. I'm not criticizing the change, I'm just criticizing the propaganda that was played and how some players who brought up this issue were hung out to dry that our concerns were baseless.
I have high hopes for the new NCSoft branch and I think its a decent move. I believe in this iteration of the team better than the one run by Statesman.
Well, I have mixed feelings about this. On one paw I miss the early days when you stepped into a mission wondering IF you could complete it or not. Where you had to keep your tank constantly supplied with fresh Inspirations. When team wipes were not that uncommon, it just made it more challenging. When you had a victory it felt like a victory. All introduced by Cryptic. While on the other paw this change could instill a new challenge to the game, not just to the difficulty of mission but the variety of taking us to new dimensions and new worlds (still waiting to be able to go underwater). So I'm taking a wait and see attitude on this for now.
Catreena
"Why can't the villains ever hide out in the old abandon catnip factory?"
Catreena, you know you'd auto-complete every underwater mission, cats don't like water!!!!
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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Which again, begs the question, if NCSoft was 100% behind Cryptic after the acquisition of the MUO development, why wasn't this funding and resources given?
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At a guess it is because they couldn't specify where the money went other than not to MUO. Remember Cryptic has at least 1 maybe 2 other projects under development. And I'm sure they would like to 'find' money for those as they unfunded except by venture capital and the owners and the revenue stream from COX.
It is very likely that NCSoft has been talking to cryptic on and off about it but after the Microsoft deal backed off a bit. And then watched, finally deciding that wanted to own the whole game.
The deal is good for cryptic because it is money without strings. I'll bet it goes to support the non MUO projects because I doubt Microsoft wants to fund those, just MUO.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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That's not what I'm saying. I was just criticizing the marketing b.s. that's was drolled out to calm the masses when the MUO announcement was made. There was a clear conflict of interest and contrary to what everyone was saying that one developer could develop for two competing rival publishers in the same genre that clearly is not the case. I just think that the people who raised concerns about the funding and development of CoH by Cryptic after the MUO announcement were proven right. I'm not criticizing the change, I'm just criticizing the propaganda that was played and how some players who brought up this issue were hung out to dry that our concerns were baseless.
I have high hopes for the new NCSoft branch and I think its a decent move. I believe in this iteration of the team better than the one run by Statesman.
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Oh, okay. I see what you were saying. Given what Lighthouse was responding to, I was reading it as if you were saying that this re-investment was a last ditch effort by NCSoft to save a dying game. I agree with you that there was a conflict of interest, although I do think Cryptic could have made it work. But, as evidenced by the recent decision, clearly both companies believe that they can work much better without that conflict hanging over their shoulders.
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It's because NCSoft didn't want to fund a developer that is also developing for a rival publisher. Since Cryptic was developing for both NCSoft and Microsoft, some funds would definitely go generally Cryptic in general and you couldn't account for some dollars. Also there would still be staff that would share technology, resources and expertise between the two development teams. It's not like there was a chinese wall between the two teams. NCSoft, in the end, was hesitant to provide lots of money to a developer where that money might end up helping to develop a rival game. There was a serious conflict of interest and it's clear this buyout shows it.
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This is basically what I was saying, although perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "profits". When I said "only the publisher", I didn't mean to imply that Cryptic was some gigantic corporation that hired mom & pop NCSoft to churn out copies of the game for them. I meant "only" in the sense that NCSoft used to be only the publisher, and now they are both publisher and developer. And since they are now both, they know that any investment they put into the game will go directly to the rewards they reap from the game. And the rewards aren't just monetary, but as you said, technology, resources, and expertise.
Well it is good to be back..at least for a temporary moment.. have very real life important issues going on (my dad's in the hospital and will be remaining there for 2-4months).. and most know me that I only post when I really feel an urge to add to the conversation.. but this news I feel is a good move in the sense that a lot more funding and attention will be put to our great game.. I am anticipating all the things that NCSoft looks to be wanting to add or enhance in the game.
For now, lets use the strategy I am using staying here with my dad 24/7: Wait and see. Take everything day to day until such a time comes that changes need to be considered; then, we raise our voices in concert and lobby the devs until those changes become reality... just my 2 influence....
well quit now or have you forgotten about base raids
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No, what Im saying is I dont want someone getting the EXACT thing I paid for free.
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I can't believe how petty some of these players are, getting all upset about something involving an online computer game. Some folks are upset that their family members won't be coming home alive from Iraq. Some people need to put their issues in priority and realize some things just aren't so important....like if a game company offers a simple freebie to new players, at least it won't kill you.
My Arc - #51736 Here Wolf... There Wolf... Werewolf!!!
Don't worry about the mule going blind, just load the wagon.
>")))>< ~~~~
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Its true, $40 dollars so much even if you did it for several accounts. Its not about the money. Its more about if they want to give back and thank the customers, thank me in a way that does something for me. Give back to the customer base that gave most. This thank you does absolutely nothing for me. So be it though, I will accept it and move on. I would have left it at what i said awhile ago, I just got upset of the constant insults of me being cheap or whining is all.
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The thing is though that in a way you have already gotten much more out of this deal than any one else did. By buying both sets you got an extra free month, and a longer time to play and be established in that game that the others wont get. The people who are getting access to the other side for free are just getting that, no extra costume pieces, no free month, no special dvd edition only badges, just access. In the last year the main edition of the game that has sold has been the GvE pack which is significantly cheaper than either COH or COV at launch and it includes a free month and extra goodies. This move just standardizes that practice so that they have more of an even playing field when determining what to work on and how to allocate resources.
They already reward customer loyalty with vet awards and they give people incentives to buy box sets by including free month passes and extra bits. In many ways you have already been compensated for buying early and contributing to their success. They are giving a customer appreciation gift to everyone as thanks for making the game what it is today. Those that have signed on early and bought the boxed sets have already been given many appreciation gifts for that purchase and those gifts are not being given away, all thats being given is access to the other side.