NCSoft acquires "City of" Franchise!
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2007-11-06 13:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm not keen on NCSoft having total control, as I think in general their priorities don't match with the priorities we've seen in the game in the past.
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I'm curious. Where have you seen a conflict between NC Soft and Cryptic in the past?
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They don't have their discussions in public, so naturally I haven't. However, I have noticed how much the community reps have pushed PvP, and I think NCSoft generally - due to its experience mostly being in East Asian grindfests - favours PvP, grind and phat lewt.
I'm not saying that I think we'll soon be City of Lineage but I do worry about there being a paradigm shift in where development is centered. I'm reserving judgement really though. 
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A) you're confusing NCSoft North America with the South Korean parent again, don't. They have very little to do with operational tendencies in the NA company, and nothing at all to do with design decisions on American products.
B) the community reps are showing they like PvP, because hey they're people with opinions! Importantly though, they're people with a solid track record of listening to our opinions too, and not trying to beat the drum more than is appropriate.
Basically you have to ask yourself, do you like the direction the game has moved in the last year? That's the way its going to continue to go for pretty much another year. There will be some additions and changes I'm certain, but the core people we know and love will be there doing the same jobs they've had. New people onboard will be just that, new. They won't be team leads making huge decisions anytime soon.
As for the company, they wouldn't be making such a big change and investment if they didn't believe in the people and tactics that have made the game successful to date.
NCSoft has shown it's not afraid to shut down a game it thinks isn't going to thrive. And yesterday they showed they have the smarts to promote and invest in a game that could thrive a lot more with some added TLC.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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So, let me get this straight from a badge earners standpoint.. does this debt wipe apply to the debt recovery badges?
So say, I have none of the debt badges on a toon. I rack up debt to the 550k cap, then when this wipe is put in place, I login and get the Unwavering (100k recovered) and Unyeilding (400k recovered) badges right away?
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The debt wipe will not count toward debt badges. Why would it?
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... because those who're working on said badges might be a bit upset about having half their effort undone?
In no way does a debt wipe imply that there'd be any affect on the counter for debt already payed off. You'd just lose any current debt. If you actually want the debt back (so, for example, you can get back to burning it off for a badge), maxing your debt bar again is pretty trivial.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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So, let me get this straight from a badge earners standpoint.. does this debt wipe apply to the debt recovery badges?
So say, I have none of the debt badges on a toon. I rack up debt to the 550k cap, then when this wipe is put in place, I login and get the Unwavering (100k recovered) and Unyeilding (400k recovered) badges right away?
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The debt wipe will not count toward debt badges. Why would it?
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... because those who're working on said badges might be a bit upset about having half their effort undone?
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To be fair, it doesn't take very long at all to re-cap your debt if that is what you set out to do 
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This pretty much seems to clear the way for CoH on XBox 360.
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Fixed that for you. The Live Marketplace on the 360 offers the opportunity for people to (in theory) pay for their MMO subscriptions with Microsoft Points ... which means, they could buy prepaid cards at any video game or computer outlet ... no credit card required. Make it a 1200-point fee, that's $16 - enough that even after MicroSoft's inevitable cut, there's still probably a nearly-full, standard MMO fee left for NCSoft.
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If they play with a 360, how could they go to PI and type "PL MEH"? 
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... with this ...
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So, let me get this straight from a badge earners standpoint.. does this debt wipe apply to the debt recovery badges?
So say, I have none of the debt badges on a toon. I rack up debt to the 550k cap, then when this wipe is put in place, I login and get the Unwavering (100k recovered) and Unyeilding (400k recovered) badges right away?
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The debt wipe will not count toward debt badges. Why would it?
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... because those who're working on said badges might be a bit upset about having half their effort undone?
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Getting killed ten times in a row is not even comparable to the effort required to burn the debt off.
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Furthermore, I did note in the piece you quoted that this move is most likely GOOD for the game. Cryptic obviously (an' it shows) didn't put all their effort towards CoH. Things like "it would take too long" and "we'd need to cut other things, then" tell me exactly that. Expanding the development team is what usually solves these problems, so that's good as well.
No, what I said is that I'm surprised that Cryptic in general and Jack in particular would be willing to let go their baby, the game that "made" them, to focus on Lord knows what else. It feels like a mistake and a cop-out on THEIR end, even if it's BETTER for the game.
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That's also the way I feel.
I think that this is good for CoH. NCSoft is (presumably) paying Cryptic a bunch of money for the IP rights. NCSoft is setting up a development house in NorCal. NCSoft is making monetary commitments to CoH and has a vested interest (recover the investment, maintain monthly subscription revenue, etc) in seeing CoH continue to be a success. The last year has been (imho) a good year wrt expansions and that would seem to be continuing trend with the CoH devs moving enmass to NCSoft. Yay for that.
The Cryptic side is more of a puzzler. Give up the hit that put you on the map. Give up the 1st major IP you developed (your baby). Give up monthly income (a cash cow). Get (somewhat) lower monthly operating expenses. Get more time to focus on new development. Bet that those new projects will be hits. But from their perspective, it must have made sense.
Another thing strange about Cryptic - last summer they had a job posting on their web site for a CFO position were the job description had a blurb about taking them public and leading them though an IPO. I looked at their web site recently and their executive team does not include a CFO, nor was there an announcement about a CFO being hired. But the CFO job posting was canceled - it's no longer up. And they sold their current income generator. So did they cancel their plans to go public? A year or so ago I also remember remember Cryptic talked about running their own MMO, getting into publishing, having their own Cryptic servers, etc. Maybe they've decided on a different future for their company; seems like they are moving the opposite way now.
I can see the win for CoH and for NCSoft, but it's harder for me to understand the win for Cryptic. Of course, I have not seen what NCSoft paid for CoH either. Maybe it was a deal that Cryptic just could not refuse. Dunno.... from the outside you don't see nearly all of the things that factor into a company's decision process. It does seem, though, like there's a change of corporate direction at Cryptic.
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I'm not saying CoV did less than other MMOs have with their expansions and obvious I felt it was good enough to buy it. But it was billed as a standalone game which shipped with not a third of the content the original CoH had at Launch...
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ARE YOU HIGH?!?!
CoH at launch had street sweeping and fighting guys in warehouses, and that was IT.
Ok that's a slight exaggeration...but VERY slight.
the Rogue Isles may have had a smaller physical footprint than Paragon City at launch, but as far as content goes Mayhem Missions alone provided more original, interactive gamplay than the entirety of CoH did at launch.
Sam, I love ya, but you need to stop making sweeping statements about stuff you have zero understanding of.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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And yes, MUO is competition.
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Not for me it isn't. I'm happily going to say right now: no interest in it (especially if it's developed for Vista lol). If DC produced something at the same quality and type as CO* I might try it out, because I'm more fond of that universe. However, I know perfectly well that if I'm going to be spending 45$ a month (with 3 accounts active) anywhere on the internet, it's going to be RIGHT HERE.
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/signed
Now I'm gonna go polish my Green Lantern ring.
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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the Rogue Isles may have had a smaller physical footprint than Paragon City at launch, but as far as content goes Mayhem Missions alone provided more original, interactive gamplay than the entirety of CoH did at launch.
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Nitpick - Mayhem missions were not in at launch.
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the Rogue Isles may have had a smaller physical footprint than Paragon City at launch, but as far as content goes Mayhem Missions alone provided more original, interactive gamplay than the entirety of CoH did at launch.
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Nitpick - Mayhem missions were not in at launch.
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Good point, I'd forgotten that. =D
But CoV benefited greatly from the devs experience with CoH and had a bunch of great stuff at launch, stuff it took them a looooong time to get in CoH.
In CoH there were entire level ranges where you COULD NOT GET A MISSION. Not even 'kill XXXX', nothing! You either had to street sweep or team with people who still had working contacts.
Claiming CoH at launch was some cornucopia of content is profoundly uninformed.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I also totally don't see it as having had design shortcuts. Instead I see it as learning from CoH's mistakes. All that "content" that CoH shipped with? Lost on most players and typically void of characters in-zone. CoV shipped with more story arcs than CoH did, it made you travel less to get to them, and it cut out a ton of fluff.
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"Bad design shortcuts" was creating a grand total of 6 zones (Mercy, Oaks, Cap, Sharkhead, Nerva, St. Martial, +1 if you count I7) and cramming those full of important stuff, making the gameworld as a whole feel incredibly small. Why make two zones 2/3s of the size when you could cram everything into one? Except then players always see the same places. How many people actually LIKE spending time in Sharkhead Island?
"Bad design shortcuts" was keeping everyone contained within the same zone for 10 levels a stretch where City of Heroes mixes things up a bit.
"Bad design shortcuts" was adding in twice the story arcs but each a third of the length and each throwing out interesting information only as an afterthought (Oh, before I forget, the Rikti are humans. You learn something new every day!). Good storytelling and good stories replaced by short arcs just so there are more of them, no single one-off missions in addition to that, no hunt missions for those who like them...
CoV may or may not have had things actually designed better, but it shipped with a lot less actual done on it than the original CoH, and a whole bunch else just copied whole-sale from CoH. As an expansion, it was very rich and rewarding. As a standalone game, it's very, very lacking. Let's hope that if we DO get a paid expansion, it's a real expansion that knows what it's trying to achieve.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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perhaps Cryptic knows their MUO game is so killer, they knew CoX would not be able to compete and figured it may be a better idea to sell the healthy cow than have it die in their hands.
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Bingo!!
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"Bad design shortcuts" was creating a grand total of 6 zones (Mercy, Oaks, Cap, Sharkhead, Nerva, St. Martial, +1 if you count I7) and cramming those full of important stuff, making the gameworld as a whole feel incredibly small. Why make two zones 2/3s of the size when you could cram everything into one? Except then players always see the same places. How many people actually LIKE spending time in Sharkhead Island?
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How many people enjoy running through six different zones to drop off a package, come back to the first contact then be told to go through another five zones to clear out a warehouse before, finally, heading back again to maybe get the contact's congratulations. Possibly.
Variety is nice, but variety that has you taking thirty bloody minutes for a twelve second task is just irritating.
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"Bad design shortcuts" was keeping everyone contained within the same zone for 10 levels a stretch where City of Heroes mixes things up a bit.
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See above.
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"Bad design shortcuts" was adding in twice the story arcs but each a third of the length and each throwing out interesting information only as an afterthought (Oh, before I forget, the Rikti are humans. You learn something new every day!). Good storytelling and good stories replaced by short arcs just so there are more of them, no single one-off missions in addition to that, no hunt missions for those who like them...
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Matter of taste. I, personally, prefer the likes of Oh Wretched Man, Clockwork Villainy, etc, rather than being told to go defeat some Council for...um...some reason! Again. After I deliver this seven packages, obv.
Why Did Cryptic Give Up It's Child?
Probably the main reason is that it's receiving money from Microsoft to develop what could potentially be a "City" killer. Microsoft probably doesn't want to see any staff or resources that are supposed to be working on MUO to help out City. And, understandably, NCSoft was probably pressuring Cryptic to keep up it's resources on developing City so that it could compete when MUO came out. Though I don't know for sure, I'm betting that the "3 issues a year" promise was pushed by NCSoft.
Secondarily, City is using a legacy game engine. Everything else Cryptic is working on is using the new animation rig. So, Cryptic had to keep a separate team for City and probably didn't have the luxury of moving developer resources around freely. So, Cryptic had to keep City as it's own separate world within its building for the game engine and for accounting reasons (M$ and NCSoft looking over their shoulders).
And let me play armchair psychologist: While City was Jack's baby; MUO is Jack's new baby... Baby 2.0. Under the old regime there would never be a CoH 2.0, because MUO would be their CoH 2.0. That leaves NCSoft out with a baby that's not going to age well. If NCSoft wants City to grow well or for there to be a CoH 2.0, they'd have to take complete control. If Cryptic was reluctant to let go of City, then the pressure from NCSoft to care for it properly would be incentive to give it up for adoption to a better home that would take care of it.
Besides MUO, Cryptic has three or four other MMORPG unannounced projects in the works. With M$ money and the sale of City and the revenue from leasing the City engine, they may be able to self-publish like they want to with their other games in development.
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I'm pleased that the doom and gloom has been (relatively) minimal after this announcement.
I think of myself as an old hand at the MMO genre. I've seen it all over the last ten years and I wanted to address the people who are fearfult of NCSoft turning into SOE.
It's true that in the past things generally took a turn for the worst if a publisher bought out a studio and took over. It's usually a case of efficiency. The publisher is interested in cutting costs and streamlining operations. This is part of what happened when SOE bought Verant and "streamlined" EQ. It's part of what's happened at SOE for every game they buy. That is, the dev team is either absorbed or fired outright and the SOE dev team takes over. There's a whole new command structure running the game with different goals, a different vision, and usually a greater interest on simplifying and economizing than on developing and expanding.
SOE isn't alone in this regard. You only have to look at EA and just about every MMO they've tried to publish to see how it works at other publishers. I still remember how EA bought out Westwood (Earth and Beyond) and within a couple of months Westwood had effectively ceased to exist and E&B was gone within the year. EA had no idea at all about how to run an MMO. I fear for WAR (but that's another topic).
The point being, that this situation is nothing like what's gone on before. The reason is two-fold.
Firstly, NCSoft has worked closely with Cryptic from the very beginning. They were truly partners in the development of the CoX franchise, to the point were we, the players, sometimes needed a scorecard to tell who was working for what company.
Secondly, NCSoft has retained the entire development team and set them up as a studio of their own. This isn't the typical buy them out and assimilate them deal. This is more like NCSoft spun the CoX team off from Cryptic as a wholly owned subsidiary. The people who provided the talent and the vision for CoX are providing the vision and talent under NCSoft. For all intents and purposes, the only thing that's changed is that there's a NCSoft suit sitting in the captain's chair instead of a Cryptic suit sitting in it. The people running the ship are all still at their stations.
Someone at NCSoft had the smarts to say "Why fix it if it ain't broke?" I'm sure that there were bean counters at NCSoft who were rubbing their hands with glee, saying "Wow! Look at all of the money we'll save now by merging the "City of" staff with our staff! We can lay half of them off and replace them with our people and really make the stockholders happy!" Whether it was Geko or someone else, I'd really like to shake the hand of whoever stood up and said "I think our current relationship and processes are working just fine and we should just keep things working like they do now." That person deserves a cookie.
Of course, this also suggests that NCSoft thinks the "City of" team has the potential to become a development house in their own right. I shouldn't be awfully surprised to find out that NCNorCal has a new game or two on the schedule next year.
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perhaps Cryptic knows their MUO game is so killer, they knew CoX would not be able to compete and figured it may be a better idea to sell the healthy cow than have it die in their hands.
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Bingo!!
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I know you've really latched onto the "MUO is DoooOooOooOOOoom" standpoint, but I suspect it is a bit too early to make that call
I wouldn't be at all surprised if that is Jack's take, but at this time it is in no way a sure bet. Cryptic is definitely taking a much larger risk on this deal than NCSoft is.
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"Bad design shortcuts" was creating a grand total of 6 zones (Mercy, Oaks, Cap, Sharkhead, Nerva, St. Martial, +1 if you count I7) and cramming those full of important stuff, making the gameworld as a whole feel incredibly small. Why make two zones 2/3s of the size when you could cram everything into one? Except then players always see the same places. How many people actually LIKE spending time in Sharkhead Island?
"Bad design shortcuts" was keeping everyone contained within the same zone for 10 levels a stretch where City of Heroes mixes things up a bit.
"Bad design shortcuts" was adding in twice the story arcs but each a third of the length and each throwing out interesting information only as an afterthought (Oh, before I forget, the Rikti are humans. You learn something new every day!). Good storytelling and good stories replaced by short arcs just so there are more of them, no single one-off missions in addition to that, no hunt missions for those who like them...
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Sam, your 'bad design shortcut' is my 'huge gameplay improvement'.
All the stuff you complain about there was developed in response to vocal and ongoing input from the playerbase.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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perhaps Cryptic knows their MUO game is so killer, they knew CoX would not be able to compete and figured it may be a better idea to sell the healthy cow than have it die in their hands.
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Bingo!!
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Well, sit back and get ready to rumble. Because NCSoft is saying, "We will not go down without a fight."
With one or two more years to add content to City while MUO is under development, if MUO doesn't come out with 200 hours of game play, it's going to look pretty anemic compared to City, even if it looks prettier and you can hang with Wolverine.
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I'm cautiously-optimistic about this.
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*gasp*
Samuel being cautiously optimistic... isn't that one of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse?
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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I hope this doesn't sound pessimistic (I have no reason to think this will negatively impact the game), but what do the following parties have to gain from this deal?
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I hazard:
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NC Soft:
[/ QUOTE ] Control of and future profits from a niche market MMO that MIGHT now have more monetary support behind it's development. From the sound of it, it seems they plan on taking "City of" beyond its comic confines, which the pessimistic side of me sees as yet more watering down of what was, at one point, a "genre". But NC knows that MUO is going to take a huge slice out of the nich market pie, and they're probably banking on a the appeal of the Co* gaming system to bring in more customers IF the game(s) is made more broad in its targeting: fantasy, future tech, etc.
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Cryptic:
[/ QUOTE ] Free up resources to work on the next, bigger title, which will impact the comic market harder because of the massive letters MARVEL behind it. Cryptic also knows that MUO is going to take a big slice out of the niche market pie, and I can only imagine it's a great weight off of them to know that they won't have to support and keep afloat the "last generation" of comic MMOs while developing the next given their limited resources.
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The Players
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Meh... I dunno, man, on the one hand I'll say "Maybe more content and some of the changes that've yet to come because of 'limited time and resources'".... but honestly what I think they'll get is whatever NC decides needs to be done to keep this game competitive.
I'll tell you this, though, it does seem pretty amazing, on the surface of it, that Cryptic sold its IP, good IP, to another company so early in its life.
Until one considers the things that those at Cryptic might know about MUO and it's market impact: it's quite possible they're looking at the upcoming competition and thinking, "OK, this is a sinking ship, let's foist it off while we can and concentrate on a product with more growth potential."
No offense to any of our fine CoX team. This is a great game. But a business decision like this in any other venue says "this product is no longer high growth", and it likely applies here as well.
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I feel like my parents just got divorced and daddy remarried, and I can't figure out if I like my new mommy yet.
My best friend says my new step-mom is hot, though, and I can kind of see where he's coming from.
This is gonna be sweet.
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ROFLMAO! That is a great analogy.
Oh and I think your step-mom's hot too.
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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I've got a good question I think. Who retains ownership of the "Statesman" character? NCSoft or Jack Emmert? This sort of thing could have an effect on future canon and also any "live events" that may or may not be possible in the future.
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Statesman is part of the Intellectual Property that NCsoft just purchased.
Jack Emmert played that role while he was working on the project, Jack has since moved on to work on MUO and posts from a different name on the MUO forums.
Ex
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That's totally to be expected, of course, but completely freaky. You acquired his alter ego. IT'S PEOPLE! IT'S PEEEEEEOPLE!!!!
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Statesman is part of the Intellectual Property that NCsoft just purchased.
Jack Emmert played that role while he was working on the project, Jack has since moved on to work on MUO and posts from a different name on the MUO forums.
Ex
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That's totally to be expected, of course, but completely freaky. You acquired his alter ego. IT'S PEOPLE! IT'S PEEEEEEOPLE!!!!
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When we've acquired companies or sold off parts of our business, the memos have always said "bought/sold xxx company/division and its employees" Have always hated that phrasing. You can't buy or sell employees. 
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And if the expansion adds as much as CoV did, then that, my friends, is a bum deal.
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Speak for yourself, man. I've gotten so much out of CoV being added that I couldn't even begin to quantifiy it.
I also totally don't see it as having had design shortcuts. Instead I see it as learning from CoH's mistakes. All that "content" that CoH shipped with? Lost on most players and typically void of characters in-zone. CoV shipped with more story arcs than CoH did, it made you travel less to get to them, and it cut out a ton of fluff.
IMO, CoV is the better game. It has its warts for sure, but I think it was a tremendous value.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA