NCSoft acquires "City of" Franchise!

The "new dudes" are in actuality the same "old dudes"

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Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2

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You mean four new slots, right, Ghost? 'cause I still have only the same 12 slots I've had since COV launched ...

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Yeah, the server I saw it on had one slot left(before the awesome COV-ness).

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No quotes. Look up the post I'm responding to for context.

I think both sides here are arguing semantics and talking about different things. There is no denying that a number of have expressed a feeling of entitlement to compensation for having bought that which is now being given for free. I believe we can safely agree that the compensation for having paid for something before is having been able to use it first and before it was being given out for free. Of course, for people who have bought either game very recently, that will not amount to much. Compensating them would sound justifiable, but would open a can of worms, so unfortunately they will become the sorta-victims of this promotional give-away.

I don't have numbers to support this, but a rather larger number of people have expressed an opinion that, while not a necessity, some sort of a bonus for people who HAVE bought both games would be a smart economic and promotional move. There is no disagreeing with that, and whether such a thing is at all implemented would, I assume, fall somewhere in the sphere of nice bonuses when there's extra time and manpower lying around the office. Given that the development team is moving house at the moment, I do not expect to see such at all, or at best to see it some time after the fact.

The conclusion one has to draw is that both points are simultaneously true, because they do not contradict each other. It is quite easy, based on the evidence in this thread alone, to accuse a number of non-specified people of indignant self-entitlement. It also follows, however, that it is impossible to accuse pretty much anyone else of the above, as most people have stated an opinion of what would be a smart move as opposed to a declaration of entitlement. It is possible to decry one group while simultaneously not criticising the other, and the address of each and every post on the matter needs to be examined carefully, lest people find accusations where such were meant for others.

In layman's terms: if it doesn't apply to you, it probably wasn't meant for you.

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The problem is this, Sam: in English ... if you make a broad, sweeping generalisation, but do not provide any sort of provision to the effect of "I don't mean EVERYone" ... then, by default, the presumption is that you do mean everyone.

In this particular case, such a clause might look something like this: "I don't mean anyone who wants a shiny at all, just the people whining about it."

Yes, something that simple changes a statement about "senses of entitlement", and similar, from a broad-based all-inclusive attack ... into a comment that some of those who want "a shiny" are taking their want too far, and should grow a clue.

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When one sticks to the "attack everyone indiscriminately" approach, then one can only blame one's self for the entirely-justified return-fire of those who were caught in the AoE ... but didn't deserve the attack in the first place.

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You mean four new slots, right, Ghost? 'cause I still have only the same 12 slots I've had since COV launched ...

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Yeah, the server I saw it on had one slot left(before the awesome COV-ness).

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^_^ Side note: I am glad that the server slots are included; otherwise, the opened content might be less than useful, for those who'd already filled up their Home Servers with one side or the other.

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Agreed and understood. I feel a basic misunderstanding has been happening here, is all, and I hope to offer some assistance to rectifying it. Yes, things have been said that shouldn't have been said. From both sides, in my opinion. But the thing is, if my assessment is correct, then it should be fairly straightforward to get things straight even after the fact and just generally come to terms.

I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a loudmouth who's had his share of both offending people and being offended, but I've been taking the approach that I'd rather look at things logically and address them with facts even if they seem like little more than basic insults or gross exaggerations. Surprisingly, it's made for both a more pleasant experience around these here parts AND for a more convincing, if easier to overlook position.

None of that matters, though. All I'm saying is that I think the best solution at this point is to just try and work this out without entering into too much emotion, as I feel this is more of a misunderstanding than it is a confrontation.

As far as sweeping generalisations being interpreted as such unless stated otherwise, I agree with you. It is generally bad practice to to make absolute statements about large groups of people and assume full certainty. But on the other hand, I find it a good approach to such to simply look at them and state their limitations. "People suck!" "Yeah, sure, some people do. You didn't mean everyone, right?" OK, so the answer to that may well be "Yeah everyone!" but the point remains

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Now people are arguing over the way in which other people are arguing.

This thread is brilliant.

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I would just like to point out yet again, that Ex and LH have both already stated that the old-timers *will be also getting a perk*.

It's never been worth arguing over in the first place.

Their legal and creative teams aren't THAT stupid, people. They've already accounted for the numerous possibilities here.

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Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed

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Except that this isn't a case at all of another strange company coming in and purchasing something they didn't already own. This was NC's project *from the start* from before beta. They have always been involved. Please read the thread, mmkay? Particularly, go play spot the redname, because the 3 that we've had that I can recall off the top of my head (babs, war witch and ghost widow) more than made my mind up.

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Except that I know that, and I said that. Knowing your agoraphobia is irrational doesn't make you any less agoraphobic.

Please read the posts you're responding to before getting smarmy, mmkay?

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As for players getting access to both games, I love it. Love it, love it, love it. And this is coming from someone who bought the deluxe pre-sale pack from COMP USA, the retail version of COH, the DVD collectors version of COH, the pre-sale of COV, the collectors edition of COV, and the GVE pack.

I DO think it's important that there be some kind of nod for us old timers, which apparently will happen, but even if there wasn't, it all comes downt o one thing for me: bases. One of the most frustrating things in the game has all been creating a base with an awesome meeting chamber, and then having a couple people in the SG who did not have access to it because they did not have COV. So what do you do? Kick them out? Hold the meetings without them? Let the meeting room go to waste? Requiring tha everyone have both games? There really wasn't a great answer.

Now, there is. Now, if you're in a SG, you can enter a base. Period. And I think that's just awesome.

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[...] it all comes downt o one thing for me: bases. One of the most frustrating things in the game has all been creating a base with an awesome meeting chamber, and then having a couple people in the SG who did not have access to it because they did not have COV. So what do you do? Kick them out? Hold the meetings without them? Let the meeting room go to waste? Requiring tha everyone have both games? There really wasn't a great answer.

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Yes; I've got a couple alts in an SG that has twice-weekly meetings (covering two major timezone clusters). For the longest time (pre-I9), we met on the University Campus in Steel Canyon. Post-I9, we moved to Pocket D.

Now, we can move the meet-up part of each day's activities to our own, already-well-furnished base.

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Now, there is. Now, if you're in a SG, you can enter a base. Period. And I think that's just awesome.

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And some non-SG-members can enter too - depending on Team status, and the owning Group's relevant Permissions settings. ^_^

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An interesting spinning target you offer there - first you claim there haven't been any. And now you essentially state "well yeah, there have seen some, I just didn't like them".

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That's facile: Yes, there have been temper tantrums. No, there have not been addressals of buyer incentive as an invalid marketting tool.
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The belief that your are entitled to such incentives does however tie into a worldview.

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Assignation: I hold no such belief. Smart marketing practise != entitlement. Entitlement is your story, not mine. Trying to assign posting motivations for a stranger many miles distant is a futile and revealing gesture; really only good for convincing yourself and illustrating for others the wild presumptions you're willing to throw out in order to score a non-existent point.

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Nice spin and dodge. Does Parry follow or proceed?

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"Maybe if I link something pithy here he won't notice I skirted any rebuttal."

Point remains, as before, unaddressed.

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Now, there is. Now, if you're in a SG, you can enter a base. Period. And I think that's just awesome.

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It's so double-dip awesome that it justifies the whole manuever by itself for me.

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awwww *hugz the Queen of the World*

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Now people are arguing over the way in which other people are arguing.

This thread is brilliant.

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lol

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An interesting spinning target you offer there - first you claim there haven't been any. And now you essentially state "well yeah, there have seen some, I just didn't like them".

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That's facile: Yes, there have been temper tantrums. No, there have not been addressals of buyer incentive as an invalid marketting tool.
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The belief that your are entitled to such incentives does however tie into a worldview.

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Assignation: I hold no such belief. Smart marketing practise != entitlement. Entitlement is your story, not mine. Trying to assign posting motivations for a stranger many miles distant is a futile and revealing gesture; really only good for convincing yourself and illustrating for others the wild presumptions you're willing to throw out in order to score a non-existent point.

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Nice spin and dodge. Does Parry follow or proceed?

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"Maybe if I link something pithy here he won't notice I skirted any rebuttal."

Point remains, as before, unaddressed.

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I don't think that anyone here has said that buyer incentives are an invalid marketing tool. What people have been saying is that there have already been buyer incentives in this game and there continue to be buyer incentives in this game and with their marketing. There is always a early adopter incentive in MMO's so that you can get the leg up on the other guy. Vet awards are incentives to stay, little gifts like free month of play, extra costume pieces, 4 more character slots, etc. are all buyer incentives to keep purchasing different versions of the game. What people here seem to be questioning is the validity of the argument that just because someone else gets something for free that they are entitled to something extra because they already paid for it. They ignore that they already got something extra by buying it and feel entitled to get more out of the deal simply because someone is getting something less for free.

Buyer incentives are a key way to get people to not just buy but to keep buying and CO* has always included these incentives. Now they are shifting tactics to basically do away with considering them two seperate games and calling it just one big one, and its a move that they have been making for a year now with the GVE packs. This move to give someone access to the other side is just to even things up and make adressing the game as a whole much easier.

The thing that people are taking offense to is the attitude that they are owed something because of this marketing change. There is a big difference between wanting something when you buy and demanding something extra after you bought the game that came with the free gift now that they changed the packaging. The thing that is really telling to me is that there has not been this kind of resentment when the GvE edition came out where you could buy both games for far less than you could buy one.

You haven't been throwing the tantrums emnity, nor has Pax, a personal insult here and there but no tantrums. The point I am trying to get across is that no one is saying buyer incentives are bad, what people are saying is the buyers sense of entitlement when they have already been given a bonus for buying the games and have an advantage for having bought both earlier. If NCsoft decides to give a little trinket, and it looks like they will thats one thing and it very well may be a smart move, but the players are in no way owed any little trinket beyond what they got when they first bought the game.

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So he was the gynecologist at the birth of CoH. Great stuff. But the game's grown and moved on. Time for a pediatrician, don't need a gynecologist any more.

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Thanks LightSide, now i have a mental image of a GvE box with legs spread out on an exam table and Statesman's helmet tinkering under the hospital gown.

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Ok, I think I may have pulled something laughing so hard at that image...

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So he was the gynecologist at the birth of CoH. Great stuff. But the game's grown and moved on. Time for a pediatrician, don't need a gynecologist any more.

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Thanks LightSide, now i have a mental image of a GvE box with legs spread out on an exam table and Statesman's helmet tinkering under the hospital gown.

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Ok, I think I may have pulled something laughing so hard at that image...

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Best laugh I've had all day! Still...can't..stop.





Ok, better now.
Statesman=Johnny Bench?

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Excellent news.

Still must be weird for Emmert for someone else to own his personal RP character.

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