Discussion: Issue 11 Closed Beta
By
Angry_Citizen,
Posted on: 2007-10-09 10:27 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Yet I know of at least one account that has been to every closed beta since the Issue 6 that:
a) Hardly ever posts to these forums.
b) His kid goofs around on test while the closed beta is running.
The problem is that the sample group can get stale, even if they are good testers.
There is a reason that marketing groups do not repeatly test the same group.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
...how about those of us who received a 'Welcome to the Beta' email, but the test server won't let log on? =(
Let's all [censored] how we aren't in the closed beta some more, that will help something I'm sure. Like it did the last 3 times.
Any guess for when it will be open testing.
Only beta i did was CoV and I posted bugs as often as possible. But, i guess it was because i haven't logged into the test server for almost 6 months :P meh oh well
[ QUOTE ]
Selection to be included in the closed beta test of Issue 11 is pretty straightforward. We have selected testers who were helpful with previous closed betas and also included accounts who had recently logged into the Training Room.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not a super fan of this for a few reasons: Previous testers who were just fortunate enough to not encounter bugs (or at least bugs they hadn't already found to be known issues) might seem like they're there just to play and not make it again.
Anyone waiting to be a first time tester would have to waste their game time logging into the test server just to be registered as logging in so they can be added to that list...
It just seems that, considering how many people have beta'd CoH and CoV and so many other MMOs and are very much wanting to beta things like these issues, it seems they're missing out on some of the best people.
Why not get people who log in a lot period...not just PvPers and test server natives...since that's pretty much the only people that are on test with any regularity.
Kinda like punishing skilled people because they don't wanna waste HDD space and time on a server that can (and should) be wiped anytime.
When I was in the Character Costume section and using the Random Costume Generator and tried to use the "Last" button, I got a hard crash and dumped out of the game.
Rich the Dumped Guy
Da Falcon Scrapper lvl 50
Shadow Hunter Q Blaster lvl 50
http://psfcoh.com/
Step Up or Step Aside
I say just let the closed thing continue - have the closed testers find as many horrid bugs as possible; thus, when it opens up, people can focus on what they want to test rather than what the dev's need testing. It isn't like the issue will go from Closed Testing straight to Live. If the selection of people is repeated, maybe it is because the last few issues have been relatively smooth for release; I am sure they are adding 'new blood' to the mix as well rather than just the same people. I have read some people who were in previous closed issues who haven't gotten into this one.
One issue not raised, the new IO sets.
Being in closed beta allows people the chnace to speculate by buying some rare underused salvage right now on live, assuming it wil spike in price as a lot of defenders try for buff or debuff sets.
There is a tangiable in-game advantage to being in beta.
For no other reason bar this, the Dev team should be very open about the selection process, to avoid allegations of favoritism.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
One issue not raised, the new IO sets.
Being in closed beta allows people the chnace to speculate by buying some rare underused salvage right now on live, assuming it wil spike in price as a lot of defenders try for buff or debuff sets.
There is a tangiable in-game advantage to being in beta.
For no other reason bar this, the Dev team should be very open about the selection process, to avoid allegations of favoritism.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this crossed my mind too.
Two possible solutions for this:
1) Publish the recipes to the masses ASAP
2) Have the recipes in closed beta be completely different from what they will be in release (or at least open beta)
I don't expect either will happen.
"Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes." - Sweet_Sarah
that's another good point, cw.
Back Alley Jaws That was a fun happening last night 
That's what makes beta fun after a cupple hours of testing stuff out. It's nice to see the devs can take time out to do a little PR or at least kick back with us players from time to time. Always nice to see ya BaB 
[ QUOTE ]
If the selection of people is repeated, maybe it is because the last few issues have been relatively smooth for release; I am sure they are adding 'new blood' to the mix as well rather than just the same people. I have read some people who were in previous closed issues who haven't gotten into this one.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with this is, there is no proof that it is the people selected, and not the process itself that is causing the smoother releases.
The only way to be sure is a complete swappage of testers. No single tester should ever be picked for two events in a row, much less three.
And a very excellent point was brought up about the recipes and the market.
[ QUOTE ]
Selection to be included in the closed beta test of Issue 11 is pretty straightforward. We have selected testers who were helpful with previous closed betas and also included accounts who had recently logged into the Training Room.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know of at least one person that had to Install the test server because they'd never been there until this invite.
/shrugs
I've got other NCS testing to do anyway so it's all good. And this way I won't be burned out on Oroborous when it goes live.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No player should be in two closed betas in a row.
[/ QUOTE ]cant get behind this, if a bug tester is good, they should get in every closed beta, because they get the job done. they do these closed betas to get bugs fixed, not to give people a chance to play with new toys, [...]
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.
The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.
Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.
[ QUOTE ]
Any guess for when it will be open testing.
[/ QUOTE ]
November 1st or 2nd. The Issue has to go live before the Winter Event, and that means, by the last day of November at the latest.
I am excited that Closed Beta has started because the results we have seen over the last two issues (less bugs, big oopses caught, general good reception) were excellent and I hope that whoever got into beta keeps that same focus in mind.
Now where is my beta invite !
High Beam - 50 Blaster Energy/Ice - 1228 Badges
Munitions Mistress - 50 Mercs/Traps
Many Other 50's, Too Many Alts, All On Freedom
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!
[ QUOTE ]
One issue not raised, the new IO sets.
Being in closed beta allows people the chnace to speculate by buying some rare underused salvage right now on live, assuming it wil spike in price as a lot of defenders try for buff or debuff sets.
There is a tangiable in-game advantage to being in beta.
For no other reason bar this, the Dev team should be very open about the selection process, to avoid allegations of favoritism.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's a fix for that: Be absolutely clear that the salvage listed for the Beta .... is NOT NECESSARILY the salvage that will be needed on Live!
So, there's nothing to speculate about, because noone really KNOWS what salvage will be needed.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this is, there is no proof that it is the people selected, and not the process itself that is causing the smoother releases.
The only way to be sure is a complete swappage of testers. No single tester should ever be picked for two events in a row, much less three. - Dark_One
[/ QUOTE ]
So instead of having people who actually know how to Beta test, just grab a bunch of people who have no clue? Just go in an start playing hoping to figure out they will figure out how to bug hunt on their own??
Personally I think they should invite people who make real bug reports in live, and then a smattering of others who have never been in a beta test. Have a mix of people who actually provide feed back and not just "Ha ha I got Beta and you didn't", and people who should be given a chance to beta who've never been before.
Again, just grabbing random people to Beta doesn't even guarantee they will actually participate in it. Lets say 50 people get choosen, there might be only 10 that might actually play at any length and test, other then make a toon, level it twise and go back to live.
It's not really about who get's in and the "stagnant" state of it all, but about the people who abuse the privilege of beta. These abusers should be excluded from future beta tests, not the people who are actually testing and providing feed back.
Take it as you will, the Devs know what they are doing, but when they need our ideas/help they have a beta test
Strength of Will in Willpower sounds alot like Unstoppable...no wait, it is Unstoppable! (read the power description text) 
[ QUOTE ]
Check out PlayNC's site, and the websites of upcoming games. They often give you opportunities to sign up for their betas through those two places.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the info, signed into my account @ PlayNC and guess what . . . .
There was a Beta Test Sign up waiting for me there for Exteel. I guess I shouldn't look a gift-horse in the mouth but . . . . .
I need to ask this, Does doing a beta test for one of PlayNC's games count towards getting thought of for any of their other games?
P.S. Exteel looks cool and from what I gather its only a PvP game
I don't know, but I suspect it does indeed contribute towards being considered for other Beta Tests. No clue if that counts after-release betas like for i11, though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this is, there is no proof that it is the people selected, and not the process itself that is causing the smoother releases.
The only way to be sure is a complete swappage of testers. No single tester should ever be picked for two events in a row, much less three. - Dark_One
[/ QUOTE ]
So instead of having people who actually know how to Beta test, just grab a bunch of people who have no clue? Just go in an start playing hoping to figure out they will figure out how to bug hunt on their own??
Personally I think they should invite people who make real bug reports in live, and then a smattering of others who have never been in a beta test. Have a mix of people who actually provide feed back and not just "Ha ha I got Beta and you didn't", and people who should be given a chance to beta who've never been before.
Again, just grabbing random people to Beta doesn't even guarantee they will actually participate in it. Lets say 50 people get choosen, there might be only 10 that might actually play at any length and test, other then make a toon, level it twise and go back to live.
It's not really about who get's in and the "stagnant" state of it all, but about the people who abuse the privilege of beta. These abusers should be excluded from future beta tests, not the people who are actually testing and providing feed back.
Take it as you will, the Devs know what they are doing, but when they need our ideas/help they have a beta test
[/ QUOTE ]
You have no proof whatsoever that it is, in fact, the result of the people and not the process itself.
It is about who gets in. If the same group of people get in each and every time, then it's obvious favoritism. Not to mention there may be others out there who are just as good, if not better, testers than the current crop, but will never get picked because to do so would upset the status quo. Sure, they can throw a bone to a random peep, but the core group remains pretty much the same.
Not a single person in the Closed Betas should ever expect that they will get an invite to the next one, but here we are. They can take it for granted that they'll get in. And that taking it for granted can lead to them believing they are better than us schmos who never get in.
Now, take me for instance. I've beta'd E&B, AA (and had several of my ideas put into the game), Eve Online, CoV, LotRO, TR, and Dungeon Runners. I know I'm not even in consideration for any spot in a closed beta, and I'm fine with it. I've bugged tons of text errors, found a personal client crash, and a salvage storage exploit in CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.
The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.
Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except those same people who keep getting in, have a better than average chance at directing which direction the game goes as compared to the plebian crowds outside. Once it gets to Open Beta, the chances of any significant changes based on player feedback (not to mention the needle getting lost in a haystack) happening is slim to nil.
And I'm not talking about a 'sneak preview'. I don't want to spoil the surprise on Live.
One thing that would be VASTLY helpful, is for the Closed Beta forums, once it is over, to be opened up to the public so we can see what's going on. Lock the threads, but keep them open for viewing. This secretive manner about everything is NOT helpful, especially with the same group going in ad nauseum.
[ QUOTE ]
Pick me 
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow. That only took 4 minutes.
Much longer than last time. 
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
I find it to be a gross oversimplification of a closed beta environment to say they are only for bug hunting.
Closed beta environments allow for bug hunting, content revision, quality assurance, and reception testing. All of these things take place during a closed beta no matter what the game -- bugs, quality, and enjoyability are all gaged by a small focus group to refine the product.
As such, I really believe there needs to be a focus on representative samples in these testing environments. You need people to catch bugs as well as assure the product is reaching the intended target in retaining subscribers. This sample used to beta test is, sadly, far from representative.
There are countless variables which could attribute to smoother releases including the very perception that it is smoother. The simple matter of giving a small group could cause smoother releases, the people may simply be participants. The conclusion that a specific pool results in this smoother release is both rushed and problematic. We have only tested one alternative -- everyone.
As this is the case, a representative random selection of players would be much more helpful alongside the beta testers who have been "proven" to assist with bug reports. Instead of relying just on those who frequent Testing Room, a very unrepresentative sample, we should rely on people from all servers for quality assurance.
TL;DR: Stop relying on a fixed group of people. Give all players on all servers an equal chance. Allow people you haven't selected before to join. A new sample just may surprise you.
[ QUOTE ]
Selection to be included in the closed beta test of Issue 11 is pretty straightforward. We have selected testers who were helpful with previous closed betas and also included accounts who had recently logged into the Training Room.
[/ QUOTE ]
what i don't like about the selection process is how the only two factors we know about are experience in prior betas and recently logging into test. about prior betas: it seemed like a mix of randomness and conjecture about who got selected for the first closed betas to begin with. and out of those first selections you get a certain percentage of people that truly are helpful. you continue on in the next beta with them, but the number probably diminishes as people have life situations that intervene. so you choose to replenish the group with people that recently logged into the test server. only problem there is that a lot of people that log on to the test server don't log on to it to test what's there. there are plenty of other reasons to log on to test.
i've never said anything about this selection process before because no other closed beta included new melee powersets for archetypes that have been begging for them for up to 3 years. there are a lot of us that have been playing those archetypes almost exclusively for that entire time and want to help give feedback on the new sets before they get cemented in stone. and out of that group of us, i would bet that the majority of us /bug problems on live not only when we see them but when we suspect a game mechanic might have a problem and we investigate and find one and then /bug it. these new powersets are just a recent example too--there will probably be new sets hitting test in the future belonging to archetypes that some of the rest of us have been playing for years and would like to contribute their experience to the fine-tuning of.
but it doesn't sound like criteria like those are included in the selection process. i don't think that's right.