Discussion: Issue 11 Closed Beta
By
Angry_Citizen,
Posted on: 2007-10-09 10:27 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
If the same group of people get in each and every time, then it's obvious favoritism. Not to mention there may be others out there who are just as good, if not better, testers than the current crop, but will never get picked because to do so would upset the status quo. Sure, they can throw a bone to a random peep, but the core group remains pretty much the same.
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You are getting the question of "who matters" backwards. It's not us that matter for this process, it's Cryptic and PlayNC who matter. They will pick the group they KNOW to be effective testers. If you want to call that "favoritism", go right ahead ... but you're mischaracterising the situation, and if you have an ounce of sense in you ... you know it.
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What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.
The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.
Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.
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Except those same people who keep getting in, have a better than average chance at directing which direction the game goes as compared to the plebian crowds outside. Once it gets to Open Beta, the chances of any significant changes based on player feedback (not to mention the needle getting lost in a haystack) happening is slim to nil.
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Still.
Does.
Not.
Matter.
The benefit is not "for players", it is "for Cryptic". Lose out the things that benefit the testers from your consideration ... the fact that you WANT to have X or Y that comes from testing, enough to protest not being in the group doing the testing (which is what yourposts amount to) ... is proof enough to me, that you are indeed complaining about not being in the test group yourself.
It should never be about you, it should always be about the game. Otherwise, you're not a good candidate for the test.
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If the same group of people get in each and every time, then it's obvious favoritism. Not to mention there may be others out there who are just as good, if not better, testers than the current crop, but will never get picked because to do so would upset the status quo. Sure, they can throw a bone to a random peep, but the core group remains pretty much the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are getting the question of "who matters" backwards. It's not us that matter for this process, it's Cryptic and PlayNC who matter. They will pick the group they KNOW to be effective testers. If you want to call that "favoritism", go right ahead ... but you're mischaracterising the situation, and if you have an ounce of sense in you ... you know it.
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There is favoritism on these boards, and you'd have to be blind to not see it. You have people who have been picked for multiple NCSoft betas, and yet, they don't get in. However, other players here do. You still haven't addressed the fact that there may be better testers out there, but since they see that only the same people continue to go in, they have no incentive whatsoever to help.
If it's not us that matter, then it doesn't matter if they change out the people in it, now does it? If they have a specific process that they go through, i.e. Test this today, then anyone with a heartbeat can do it. It's not reliant on the same people being 'necessary' every time.
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What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.
The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.
Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except those same people who keep getting in, have a better than average chance at directing which direction the game goes as compared to the plebian crowds outside. Once it gets to Open Beta, the chances of any significant changes based on player feedback (not to mention the needle getting lost in a haystack) happening is slim to nil.
[/ QUOTE ]
Still.
Does.
Not.
Matter.
The benefit is not "for players", it is "for Cryptic". Lose out the things that benefit the testers from your consideration ... the fact that you WANT to have X or Y that comes from testing, enough to protest not being in the group doing the testing (which is what yourposts amount to) ... is proof enough to me, that you are indeed complaining about not being in the test group yourself.
It should never be about you, it should always be about the game. Otherwise, you're not a good candidate for the test.
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You are really reading this wrong Pax. As well as putting words into my mouth. I know I'm not getting in, nor do I have any desire to. I do however, have a desire in seeing that the selection process is above-board and non-biased.
If group A have a personal direction they want the game to go, that may not match up with what the general public wants for the game's future, then by continuing to select only group A for these sessions, they have the vastly larger opportunity to affect their desires on the game. If this same group continues to have the devs' ears, then the rest of us might as well not even offer any suggestions, some of which could be extremely benefical to the game.
Well Said Pax 
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If the same group of people get in each and every time, then it's obvious favoritism. Not to mention there may be others out there who are just as good, if not better, testers than the current crop, but will never get picked because to do so would upset the status quo. Sure, they can throw a bone to a random peep, but the core group remains pretty much the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are getting the question of "who matters" backwards. It's not us that matter for this process, it's Cryptic and PlayNC who matter. They will pick the group they KNOW to be effective testers. If you want to call that "favoritism", go right ahead ... but you're mischaracterising the situation, and if you have an ounce of sense in you ... you know it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.
The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.
Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except those same people who keep getting in, have a better than average chance at directing which direction the game goes as compared to the plebian crowds outside. Once it gets to Open Beta, the chances of any significant changes based on player feedback (not to mention the needle getting lost in a haystack) happening is slim to nil.
[/ QUOTE ]
Still.
Does.
Not.
Matter.
The benefit is not "for players", it is "for Cryptic". Lose out the things that benefit the testers from your consideration ... the fact that you WANT to have X or Y that comes from testing, enough to protest not being in the group doing the testing (which is what yourposts amount to) ... is proof enough to me, that you are indeed complaining about not being in the test group yourself.
It should never be about you, it should always be about the game. Otherwise, you're not a good candidate for the test.
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Regardless of our previous diatribes, Pax is the only person here who gets it.
Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.
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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.
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Wow, another ad hominem attack.
Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?
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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, another ad hominem attack.
Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?
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Because he's a beta tester. And I'm a beta tester.
No, actually, I just realize that [censored] about it not only will not change anything except making people think less of you and being bad for your health, but also make you a worse candidate for the process.
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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, another ad hominem attack.
Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because he's a beta tester. And I'm a beta tester.
No, actually, I just realize that [censored] about it not only will not change anything except making people think less of you and being bad for your health, but also make you a worse candidate for the process.
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If you actually think I care what people on a message board think of me...well, you'd be wrong.
I didn't say you did. I was saying that for the benefit of people who do, which undoubtedly are among us.
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TL;DR: Stop relying on a fixed group of people. Give all players on all servers an equal chance. Allow people you haven't selected before to join. A new sample just may surprise you.
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Log onto Test every once in a while. Seriously. You want to know how a good chunk of these people are being picked? It's because they actually log on to the Test Server. If I were picking people for a closed beta, I would pick people that have shown that they can actually A: Log onto Test, and B: Copy over a character.
It's honestly that simple. The people who don't log onto Test and are picked for the Beta seem to be just random people picked out of a hat.
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[ QUOTE ]
If the same group of people get in each and every time, then it's obvious favoritism. Not to mention there may be others out there who are just as good, if not better, testers than the current crop, but will never get picked because to do so would upset the status quo. Sure, they can throw a bone to a random peep, but the core group remains pretty much the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are getting the question of "who matters" backwards. It's not us that matter for this process, it's Cryptic and PlayNC who matter. They will pick the group they KNOW to be effective testers. If you want to call that "favoritism", go right ahead ... but you're mischaracterising the situation, and if you have an ounce of sense in you ... you know it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What people have to remember is: the Closed Beta is not for the players' benefit, it is for the benefit of Cryptic and PlayNC. Period.
The "player benefit, too" stage is called Open Beta. Those of us, yours truly included, who didn't make the cut this time around ... will just have to wait our turn, to get a peek at the contents of i11.
Remember, everyone: this is a testing process, not a sneak peek preview.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except those same people who keep getting in, have a better than average chance at directing which direction the game goes as compared to the plebian crowds outside. Once it gets to Open Beta, the chances of any significant changes based on player feedback (not to mention the needle getting lost in a haystack) happening is slim to nil.
[/ QUOTE ]
Still.
Does.
Not.
Matter.
The benefit is not "for players", it is "for Cryptic". Lose out the things that benefit the testers from your consideration ... the fact that you WANT to have X or Y that comes from testing, enough to protest not being in the group doing the testing (which is what yourposts amount to) ... is proof enough to me, that you are indeed complaining about not being in the test group yourself.
It should never be about you, it should always be about the game. Otherwise, you're not a good candidate for the test.
[/ QUOTE ]
you make it sound like players don't matter at all when it comes to closed beta testing. but early access being given to a small focused group of people provides those people with more input into the game's direction. with many of the same people being invited to each new beta, a core group of people end up over time with more of an ability to help the devs and more of an ability to give input at least into the details of new features. that includes additions to areas of the game that you and i may know inside and out through a lot of hours of experience, and it includes players with little to no experience in those aspects of the game or even the game in general. they will still be involved in finding bugs and giving input into those areas of the game. and even if the amount of input into the game's future that's really available there for those people is small, it's still more than zero and would increase over time as many of the same people continue to get invites to test new issues. that is an advantage and amounts to a privilege. but if we as players don't matter at all when it comes to beta testing, then the lack of fairness there isn't an issue at all. we could go on for each new beta and you and i will never be no-kidding-really-invited and that should not matter.
or do you not agree with that extension of what you're saying? part of me says it's no big deal and i should just accept it if this is really the best way for the team to release new issues. but that just isn't washing with me, at least not right now. no matter how i look at it, there's still this lack of fairness for us. it feels like that should count for something.
and i'm not even convinced that they are picking the people that they "know" to be effective testers, because i don't think they're convinced that they know how to do this as effectively as they want yet.
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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, another ad hominem attack.
Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not a beta test but does it really matter who is on the closed beta testing as long as it works and we get to play with it a little on the test server before it goes to the live server?
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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, another ad hominem attack.
Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not a beta test but does it really matter who is on the closed beta testing as long as it works and we get to play with it a little on the test server before it goes to the live server?
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It does matter for a few reasons:
1) Closed door testers have a much much bigger chance of being awarded Bug Hunter. A good portion of the total numbers of this badge being handed out have come from the closed tests. Why? Because they get to see the gameplay in unpolished-ness, which is more likely to have major bugs.
2) Gives the appearance of preferential treatment if the same people keep getting in.
3) Closed testers get a leg-up on market/economy potentialities, giving them an unfair advantage when the Issue goes Live.
4) Same group of closed testers time after time get a much larger chance of affecting the game as a whole than the rest of players, whose opinions are just as valid as the "Chosen Ones".
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Waaaaaah! I hope the people whinng in this thread are 14 or younger, because if they are adults it is sad indeed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, another ad hominem attack.
Guess you beta testers sure earned your spots huh?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not a beta test but does it really matter who is on the closed beta testing as long as it works and we get to play with it a little on the test server before it goes to the live server?
[/ QUOTE ]
It does matter for a few reasons:
1) Closed door testers have a much much bigger chance of being awarded Bug Hunter. A good portion of the total numbers of this badge being handed out have come from the closed tests. Why? Because they get to see the gameplay in unpolished-ness, which is more likely to have major bugs.
2) Gives the appearance of preferential treatment if the same people keep getting in.
3) Closed testers get a leg-up on market/economy potentialities, giving them an unfair advantage when the Issue goes Live.
4) Same group of closed testers time after time get a much larger chance of affecting the game as a whole than the rest of players, whose opinions are just as valid as the "Chosen Ones".
[/ QUOTE ]1. plenty of bugs still are around for you to get the badge with,
2. there are those so paranoid that there will always be a shadow cabal out to get them, they are unstable, and they wont be missed.
3. we will most likely have a significant open bata portion to give people an idea what items are needed for the sets, plus, as pax said earlier, there is no guarentee that the recipies will stay the same from test to live.
4. again, that smacks of paranoia, the people chosen are chosen in part because they really are better testers, their input really is more valuable, i know its difficult for some to conceptualize, but some people are better at things than other people, and as such on a purely technical level, their input really is more important.
guys, try to remember that there will be an open beta too, its not as though only the closed beta testers are going to be testing this, you will get your shot. people make the mistake of thinking that this is soemhow a division of the time we used to have to beta test a issue, its not, if they were doing it the old way, the full beta test would not be happening now, the closed beta is a small and directed group of players who are doing work that would normally have been done by a smaller inhouse team of testers. the beta is still a beta, it just starts out less buggy than before, and goes live sooner because they have gotten useful feedback sooner.
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1. plenty of bugs still are around for you to get the badge with,
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More people, less showstopping possibilities, code is nearing finalized state.
Given that the metrics for this badge is pretty much dev whim, the chances of getting it in Open Beta are extremely small comparatively.
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2. there are those so paranoid that there will always be a shadow cabal out to get them, they are unstable, and they wont be missed.
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Another ad hominem attack.
If you can't see that the same people getting in time and again gives the appearance of preferential treatment, especially when the requirements for getting in are 'secret', then well, I hope that sand your head is in is comfy.
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3. we will most likely have a significant open bata portion to give people an idea what items are needed for the sets, plus, as pax said earlier, there is no guarentee that the recipies will stay the same from test to live.
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And there is no guarantee that they will change. The closed testers can find out the info first and beat the rest to the punch. Not to mention, for those who play natively on Test, but aren't in the beta, it is an unfair advantage.
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4. again, that smacks of paranoia, the people chosen are chosen in part because they really are better testers, their input really is more valuable, i know its difficult for some to conceptualize, but some people are better at things than other people, and as such on a purely technical level, their input really is more important.
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Another ad hominem attack.
There is no proof that they are 'better testers'. Especially when what constitutes a 'better tester', i.e. the requirements to get in, remains 'secret'.
If these people are so important, technically savvy, and required for the beta, then Cryptic should hire them.
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guys, try to remember that there will be an open beta too, its not as though only the closed beta testers are going to be testing this, you will get your shot. people make the mistake of thinking that this is soemhow a division of the time we used to have to beta test a issue, its not, if they were doing it the old way, the full beta test would not be happening now, the closed beta is a small and directed group of players who are doing work that would normally have been done by a smaller inhouse team of testers. the beta is still a beta, it just starts out less buggy than before, and goes live sooner because they have gotten useful feedback sooner
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And comparatively, all Open Beta is good for is Stress Testing, i.e. something in the code didn't break the underlying server structure that can't be seen with a small group of people. As once it gets to that stage, the chances of seeing fundamental changes to systems is slim to nil.
Constructive criticism offered once it goes Open, tends to get lost in the noise of everyone and their dog trying it out and complaining about X item.
Dark One, it doesnt matter. Not to these people. They dont care that the same people get in time and time again or that you cant get the Bug Hunter badge.
All they care about is calling people like you and me who express our opinion about the testing selection whiners.
I know, it's like howling into the wind. It accomplishes nothing. 
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Log onto Test every once in a while. Seriously. You want to know how a good chunk of these people are being picked? It's because they actually log on to the Test Server. If I were picking people for a closed beta, I would pick people that have shown that they can actually A: Log onto Test, and B: Copy over a character.
It's honestly that simple. The people who don't log onto Test and are picked for the Beta seem to be just random people picked out of a hat.
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I have logged on to test. I have not, however, logged onto test recently. The criteria for selection by Lighthouse said people who have logged onto test recently. By Lighthouse's post, the testers were chosen by two criteria: previous beta selection and recently use of Test server.
I simply believe that a more optimal way of selection would be to change the criteria from the above to a random selection across all servers. A random selection of participants across all servers would allow everyone equal chance and could include great testers. There are many great testers who play on a specific server, know how to get on Test, but rarely log on to it.
To exclude these potentially great testers really is a disservice that does not benefit NCsoft as much as a more random selection would.
Now, they may be selecting people randomly across all servers. If so, I applaud that and hope they eventually get rid of relying just on specific servers. Lighthouse's post, however, leads me to think that there's only these two groups allowed.
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1. plenty of bugs still are around for you to get the badge with,
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More people, less showstopping possibilities, code is nearing finalized state.
Given that the metrics for this badge is pretty much dev whim, the chances of getting it in Open Beta are extremely small comparatively.
[/ QUOTE ]while i sympathise with the people who care so much about a single badge, but you did notice that the people who get on are from those who are on test a lot, what stops you from being on test and looking for bugs there, getting your reputation up, and getting in closed beta after that, nothing.
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2. there are those so paranoid that there will always be a shadow cabal out to get them, they are unstable, and they wont be missed.
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Another ad hominem attack.
If you can't see that the same people getting in time and again gives the appearance of preferential treatment, especially when the requirements for getting in are 'secret', then well, I hope that sand your head is in is comfy.
[/ QUOTE ]ah the beauty of a set trap properly sprung. notice that i never indicated that you were one of those people, would'nt be as discorteous as to use direct insults, I see from your head in the sand comment you lack that courtesy. There are those who will always complain and see secret factions against them, regardless of contrary evidence, remember the forum cartel? same thing. you can see phantoms all you want, but prove it with evidence or expect not to be taken seriously.
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3. we will most likely have a significant open bata portion to give people an idea what items are needed for the sets, plus, as pax said earlier, there is no guarentee that the recipies will stay the same from test to live.
[/ QUOTE ]
And there is no guarantee that they will change. The closed testers can find out the info first and beat the rest to the punch. Not to mention, for those who play natively on Test, but aren't in the beta, it is an unfair advantage.
[/ QUOTE ]sigh, remember how much boresights cost in beta, remember how much they didnt cost live? the market on test is very different than the one on live.
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4. again, that smacks of paranoia, the people chosen are chosen in part because they really are better testers, their input really is more valuable, i know its difficult for some to conceptualize, but some people are better at things than other people, and as such on a purely technical level, their input really is more important.
[/ QUOTE ]
Another ad hominem attack.
There is no proof that they are 'better testers'. Especially when what constitutes a 'better tester', i.e. the requirements to get in, remains 'secret'.
If these people are so important, technically savvy, and required for the beta, then Cryptic should hire them.
[/ QUOTE ]oh please, grow some thicker skin, everyone that disagrees with you is all of a sudden making a personal attack on you, its about as genuine as the umbrige we see politicians claim every time they dont have a legitimate refutation of a claim against them. we have no proof that they arent good testers either, only the hurt feelings of those who, like myself, didnt make the cut. prove that there are primarily bad testers in the mix and we can talk, otherwise, we have had 3 good solid issues rolled out after several that came out with major crashes, and bugs, barring some internal metrics from cryptic which neither you nor i have access to, we are guessing, but on my evidence we have had 3 good issue launches, your counter example?
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guys, try to remember that there will be an open beta too, its not as though only the closed beta testers are going to be testing this, you will get your shot. people make the mistake of thinking that this is soemhow a division of the time we used to have to beta test a issue, its not, if they were doing it the old way, the full beta test would not be happening now, the closed beta is a small and directed group of players who are doing work that would normally have been done by a smaller inhouse team of testers. the beta is still a beta, it just starts out less buggy than before, and goes live sooner because they have gotten useful feedback sooner
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And comparatively, all Open Beta is good for is Stress Testing, i.e. something in the code didn't break the underlying server structure that can't be seen with a small group of people. As once it gets to that stage, the chances of seeing fundamental changes to systems is slim to nil.
Constructive criticism offered once it goes Open, tends to get lost in the noise of everyone and their dog trying it out and complaining about X item.
[/ QUOTE ]yep, i agree, once beta is opened we get a lot of non-constructive posters making noise, good thing they do closed betas with proven testers, isn't it?
QR
I'm just wondering if all this is what's keeping you (all) from getting in on it, maby....?
((not to flame, just as a question to ponder...))
I WANT i11 NOW....ON LIVE!!
I want my laser guns, ect...!
^_^
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Dark One, it doesnt matter. Not to these people.
[/ QUOTE ] woo, im a "these people" nothing like reducing people who disagree with you to a nameless collective to try and cast doubt on someone, classy. [ QUOTE ]
They dont care that the same people get in time and time again.
[/ QUOTE ] nonsense, i care very much, we have had 3 good issue roll outs, i care that people who are competent keep testing.[ QUOTE ]
or that you cant get the Bug Hunter badge.
[/ QUOTE ]he still can. its harder, but to say he cant is a flat out lie. if he diligently searches for bugs, he still has the option, and he has a chance of being in the next closed beta, dont overdramatize the situation with blatent falsehoods. [ QUOTE ]
All they care about is calling people like you and me who express our opinion about the testing selection whiners.
[/ QUOTE ] not everyone, notice how often i use the word whiners.i dont, because i dont think they are whiners, at elast not initially, i think many people want in to see the new stuff, so do i, but im not, and i can handle it as an adult, but to make histrionic posts about some kind of tacit favoritism, outside of the natural favoritism of picking people who actally know what the hell they are doing and have proven so, is paranoia, and ill damn well call it as such. disagree, refute it if you can or ignore list me if you cant, but dont you dare pretend that i or most of the people posting here are just calling you whiners without regard to your arguments. they just arent convincing, thats all it boils down to.
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Bug Hunter is that a badge?
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Yes. According to that link, it's been awarded twice, ever. One bug, I know, was found on the live servers.
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Actually the number is a bit over 10 now, with the majority of the new ones since issue 8 coming from the closed betas.
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Now THAT sucks, if true!
As the Number 1 Badge Pimp on Champion, I very, very much want the Bug Hunter Badge. But if my best chance is in closed beta, and I'm not invited to closed beta, then what the hell?
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I should point out that we only have people's words that was where the bug was found, nothing tangible.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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while i sympathise with the people who care so much about a single badge, but you did notice that the people who get on are from those who are on test a lot, what stops you from being on test and looking for bugs there, getting your reputation up, and getting in closed beta after that, nothing.
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There is no proof that they are 'on Test a lot'. Just that they logged in recently. That 'recently' could be for nothing more than seeing if a respec works or not. Or seeing how a power plays. There is nothing saying they are 'looking for bugs there'.
I shouldn't have to 'get my reputation up'. If finding an esoteric bug that can cause one AT to crash and not another isn't something that can 'get my reputation up' then I don't know what is. The fact that my payment amount is the same as anyone elses should be enough.
It's not that I care about the badge, it's about providing a measurable advantage to a small group of people.
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ah the beauty of a set trap properly sprung. notice that i never indicated that you were one of those people, would'nt be as discorteous as to use direct insults, I see from your head in the sand comment you lack that courtesy. There are those who will always complain and see secret factions against them, regardless of contrary evidence, remember the forum cartel? same thing. you can see phantoms all you want, but prove it with evidence or expect not to be taken seriously.
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You had no trap. You had no ulterior motive.
You were still attacking people and gave no indication that you excluded me from said group of people.
And if an attack is good enough for you, it's good enough for me. I don't deny that I made one, but I'm man enough to apologize for it and to acknowledge it.
And you have provided no evidence to the contrary of my statements, other than attacks with no basis.
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sigh, remember how much boresights cost in beta, remember how much they didnt cost live? the market on test is very different than the one on live.
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No, actually I don't know how much they cost, as I didn't go on Test as there was no point to it for me.
The market is different because of the ease of duping Influence, something that can't happen on Live.
The Closed testers can more accurately see the drop rates and plan how to maximize their gains. They have more time to do so.
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oh please, grow some thicker skin, everyone that disagrees with you is all of a sudden making a personal attack on you, its about as genuine as the umbrige we see politicians claim every time they dont have a legitimate refutation of a claim against them. we have no proof that they arent good testers either, only the hurt feelings of those who, like myself, didnt make the cut. prove that there are primarily bad testers in the mix and we can talk, otherwise, we have had 3 good solid issues rolled out after several that came out with major crashes, and bugs, barring some internal metrics from cryptic which neither you nor i have access to, we are guessing, but on my evidence we have had 3 good issue launches, your counter example?
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Check your statements. You're the one making attacks (other than my sand comment) by calling people paranoid and unstable. And now you've branched out into strawmen arguments.
Prove that the rollouts are because of the people rather than the process itself. You can't can you? Because we haven't been given a chance to prove it. Have them invite a completely different crew of closed testers and see how it goes. If it's a cruddy release, then I'd eat my words on it. But if it's a release just as smooth, then we'll know it doesn't depend on the people involved. Only showing one side of the argument doesn't prove anything.
I'm not disputing the need for a closed beta, I'm disputing the rationale behind the selection of people for it.
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yep, i agree, once beta is opened we get a lot of non-constructive posters making noise, good thing they do closed betas with proven testers, isn't it?
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They haven't proven ANYTHING beyond that they can do what the Devs tell them. You can't say that they are good testers without comparison to others.
Say... Just a thought here, and not meant to be a negative comment... But can we get back to discussing I11 Closed Beta as opposed to discussing what people are grumping about CONCERNING I11 Closed Beta? Nothing constructive is happening here, and nothing is being gained. However, we ARE losing validity.
Just my two pfennigs.
And this is directed at both sides. not ANY individual.
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Bug Hunter is that a badge?
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Yes. According to that link, it's been awarded twice, ever. One bug, I know, was found on the live servers.
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Actually the number is a bit over 10 now, with the majority of the new ones since issue 8 coming from the closed betas.
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Now THAT sucks, if true!
As the Number 1 Badge Pimp on Champion, I very, very much want the Bug Hunter Badge. But if my best chance is in closed beta, and I'm not invited to closed beta, then what the hell?
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