Discussion: Issue 11 Closed Beta
By
Angry_Citizen,
Posted on: 2007-10-09 10:27 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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History indicates otherwise. Since they've begun using a closed re-beta, the test time for each issue has been MUCH shorter, and the issues have had FAR fewer bugs remaining once they do actually go live.
Be glad I'm not the one callig the shots: you'd be seeing your name pinned to the bottom of the list, for putting "the players and the community" above "the product being tested".
Then again, I'm just a to-the-point [censored] like that, I guess.
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Why do keep on insisting on this?
You have no concrete evidence that it is the testers themselves, rather than the process that is resulting in the smoother releases.
One thing does not prove the other.
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Pax_Arcana is right. Since they have started closed beta testing there have been far far fewer bugs in the game. As a college student of game software development you can not convince me that it is a coincidence.
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Absolute last response on this matter. Feel free to flame me and call me a 'whiner' as you wish afterwards. Funny isn't it though? Aside from my 'head in the sand' comment, I have not resulted to insults and namecalling, yet that is pretty much all that the opponents of my belief can reply with....
No, Pax_Arcana is not right.
Since the closed testing began, what has changed? It's not the testers, because they were here (for the most part) before the closed testing began. Chances are, they hopped on and beta'd the existing issues when they hit Test. The testers did not suddenly gain Ultimate Insight into the code of the game.
What did change? The process of beta testing.
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Yes, exactly right. The process of testing now includes a set of known-quantity, experienced CLOSED beta testers (occasionally leavened with some "fresh blood", but always with the "old hands" in the majority).
If you don't see how that very process relies upon stability in the Tester Pool, then ... I have nothing nice to say about you.
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You see, I have more faith in the Devs (this is a first for me saying this) to develop a process that does not require specific people, especially in light that this is a pay-to-play environment where anyone could leave at any time, as a lynchpin of their construct. I have faith that they developed a process that means basically anyone (within logical limits) could be substituted for anyone else and achieve the same results.
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Then you have faith in the impossible. Granted, no one SPECIFIC person is required - but tossing them ALL out, means losing the "core of veterans" around which any replacement program must be built, if the program is to continue succeeding.
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I'm willing to have my belief tested, if only for one Issue, and no hard feelings if I'm wrong. I even said I would recant if I was wrong. What's the worst that happens? A couple weeks extra on Test?
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A month or more, actually. And, based on history, still some major bugs despite the extra month or two of testing.
Time and bugs I am not willing to accept as an inevitable cost of your little experiment.
You want to run a closed beta differently? A whole MMO?
Pony up the fifty million plus dollars, and make your own MMO.
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I'm just curious, but why get riled up about not getting into closed beta testing?
Sure, it sounds like fun. You also get to see some of the new stuff, and test it out before anyone else gets to see it.
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^_^ And risk damage to yoru OS, in the sense of "have to run some programs to fix it" ... evne possibly "have to uninstall the damaged drivers for my video crd and re-install them", or at the very outside of chance "I have to reinstall Windows from my original CDs!"
Betas are more about BUGS than PLAYING. ^_^
Wow, it is actually interesting to read this type of thread at each Beta period - they usually follow the same track (well, I10 did at least from what I remember).
I have my own thoughts on the matter but, seeing as how they would be targetted towards a certain sect of poster, it just isn't worth it to go into detail (as the sect will just go line by line and refute it to conform with their idea); The closed testing is good, having a pool of previous testers is good because they have an idea of what to look for. I have rarely seen people 'lord' the beta period over others (maybe I haven't looked hard enough?), but I would think that would be slightly disqualifying for future testing [its about the game, not being 'special'].
Anyhow - this thread will probably be pretty interesting by the time Open Beta comes around 
wow...I have never agreed and disagreed with the same people at the sametime before..
I think that the smugness mentioned is a fact . I think if you see such behavior you should report it.
The community and testing well it does kinda go hand in hand..
1. The testers tend to form their own community during testing. Thats just the nature of the beast. Anyone who treats that as some "Im with the cool kids" kind of thing ..proally has never been a cool kid and never will be. From my experiences in past beta. Those people tend to be weeded out because when they get in there they act the fool rather than providing anything useful. Trust me when I say that the Devs dont want to know your name unless you have something truely useful to add during that crazy time...They dont want to hear "Hey wouldnt be cool if you did this"
2. The overall community is where the testers come from and that plays a big part because while LH and ExL can never openly or even behind the scenes have "favorites" there are people who are time and time again helpful. If your a pain in their collective dev derriers on the open forums your proally not going to be a top pick going in...Thats not to say they only want kiss ups in there..But they do have a job to do..
Im not really sure if LH's posts/updates are helpful or not...I know his heart is in the right place, but it just seems to stir up the "nah nah nah" attitude of some.
I guess what Im trying to say is that for testing purposes a diverse sample of the community is a good thing, but trying to achieve that through quantity is extremely counter productive...and if someone is being a complete pompass jerk hinting or taunting about being in Beta...dont let it get to you or report it ...Its really no big deal and they are obviously in need of some self esteem...
I have to say that having "beta" as a prize for contests is kinda adding to the misconception that its a priveledged ..hey I won the lottery kind of thing..Rather than a business thing...(It was a really great idea in theory)
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Betas are more about BUGS than PLAYING. ^_^
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True Story. Unfortunately only a small percentage of the people who are in any Beta realize that.
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Betas are more about BUGS than PLAYING. ^_^
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True Story. Unfortunately only a small percentage of the people who are in any Beta realize that.
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This is true and why I say that efficiency is more important than community in closed testing.
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Betas are more about BUGS than PLAYING. ^_^
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True Story. Unfortunately only a small percentage of the people who are in any Beta realize that.
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This is true and why I say that efficiency is more important than community in closed testing.
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To be a good tester - even a n00b tester, like myself (elsewhere, not here) - youhave to be willing to drop your game-play goals, and see "will doing X, right now, really [censored] me up as badly as it looks like?"
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Case in point - Tabula Rasa. I don't exactly remember the instance name involved, "Crater Lake" I THINK - definitely one of the first few - there's a door you have to open up, with a keycard.
Well, I went in alone, slowly worked my way through it, got the blasted keycard, and opened the door. Huzzah, in I go ... and, as I stepped through the doorway, realised that my character went DOWN, for a moment, into the channel for the door. Ended up knee-deep in the floor for that one step.
"Hmmm,", I thought to myself, "I wonder what would happen if I stood there, while the door closed onto me?" So I stepped back, wrote up a /bug report describing the location and my suspicions. Then, I re-opened the door (it had closed while I wrote), stepped into that channel ... and waited. LO! and behold, the door closed, and .... I was stuck. What's worse, the control panel was out of reach ... so I couldn't open the door to free myself. Nothing was near enough to me to kill me, either ... I'd quite efficiently cleared out EVERYthing killable up top, and hte next batch of enemies was at tbe bottom of a rather lengthy (and steep) spiral ramp.
Was I annoyed? HECK, no .. I was happy; I checked the Known Bugs list, didn't see that there, and thought "aha! found one ... looks like I'm earnin' my keep tonight ..."
So I wrote up another /bug report, confirming the issue of getting stuck. Then used the /Stuck command to get yanked back to the instance entrance, and began the not-so-short trudge back to the door.
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That is a teeny, tiny example of "bugs, not play" being a tester's priority. Rather than stop at the "might be, could be" report, I then sought to verify it. And sure, it wasn't a huge issue; if I weren't solo, I could've asked my team-mate(s) to open the door for me. If I didn't stupidly stand RIGHT in the doorway as it closed, ditto. But still ... I saw a possible problem, and spent time confirming it, rather than just playing the game.
Heck,for all I knew before testing that doorway ... getting stuck could have crashed the instance completely, and even crashed my client, or my computer. Lord only knew, until I tried it.
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Heck,for all I knew before testing that doorway ... getting stuck could have crashed the instance completely, and even crashed my client, or my computer. Lord only knew, until I tried it.
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Hence why I run on a myriad of different options, from Windows XP to Windows 2k under VMWare (don't recommend that BTW) or Linux. What will bug in one might not in another.
True, but I don't have the means to run undr multiple OSes. ^_^
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True, but I don't have the means to run undr multiple OSes. ^_^
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Linux LiveCD's and VMWare, don't leave home without them. 8)
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True, but I don't have the means to run undr multiple OSes. ^_^
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Linux LiveCD's and VMWare, don't leave home without them. 8)
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Computer physically owned by my girlfriend, not me - and I can't afford a game-capable computer on my own. ^_^ Thus, OS choices aren't my call to make. ^_^
im ready for open beta to begin now. thank you =)
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Betas are more about BUGS than PLAYING. ^_^
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True Story. Unfortunately only a small percentage of the people who are in any Beta realize that.
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This is true and why I say that efficiency is more important than community in closed testing.
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Indeed, which I suspect is why I was not invited back as a beta tester after being in the first two. I didn't really have the time, or desire for that matter, to do the 'work' of testing. I logged very few reports, and didn't pay anywhere near as much attention as it would require to notice some of the more subtle issues. I went "woo hoo! New Stuff!". I suspect on this very limited sampling that in fact the beta testers are a more 'focused' group with each issue, as they cut out the chaffe like me. 
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The market is different because of the ease of duping Influence, something that can't happen on Live.
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While influence duping had some effect on the price of bore sights, it was mainly the fact that with the smaller population, bore sights were NOT dropping as much as they do live, and are used in some very basic recipes.
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why bother with closed beta, if its like any of the ones done in the past, you guys will miss a bunch of bugs in the game!
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why bother with closed beta, if its like any of the ones done in the past, you guys will miss a bunch of bugs in the game!
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Which Issues, and which bugs?
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why bother with closed beta, if its like any of the ones done in the past, you guys will miss a bunch of bugs in the game!
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Far less than the developers miss without the beta.
I feel bad I spent the 3 hrs to get the test server only to find its closed. XD Should have read test forum announcements first.
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We have e-mail notification going out to that group of testers shortly, but if you patch up and can connect and log all the way on to the Training Room Test Server, well then you are in.
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This is weird. I have patched up, and I can log all the way into the training room test server. I have went to try and make a character, and I can do so, including testing out the weapons, so I have seen them all, but when I go to finalize the character, it boots me out and says I am not in closed beta. I assumed that it worked this way for everyone, until I saw this announcement that says, I should be in, based on the fact that, I can log in. I just can't make a new character. Thats just plain weird.
Though, if you are still taking apps for the closed beta, pick me? I've been in the closed beta before, boing all the way back to the closed beta before the game came out.
Yes, Flavius, it works that way for everyone: we can all do the "make a new character" stuff, it's only when we try to actually Enter Paragon City (or wherever) that we get the boot applied to our backsides.
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why bother with closed beta, if its like any of the ones done in the past, you guys will miss a bunch of bugs in the game!
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This issue includes two new powersets. Those powersets need to be balanced. Let's say there's a bug that makes Willpower or Dual Blades too powerful.
In closed beta, only a couple hundred people got to play the godmode and being an open beta, the fix is expected.
In open beta, a lot of people play the set, and when the set is fixed to perform in the level it was intended, thousands of people cry "NERF!!!"
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Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
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I feel bad I spent the 3 hrs to get the test server only to find its closed. XD Should have read test forum announcements first.
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It's not really a waste; LH has said they're planning an extensive open beta for this before it goes live, so you'll still get your chance...
But, doesnt it go live tomorrow? XD Doesnt matter I cant get it to even open today so I had to delete and redownload all. XD 
I'm just curious, but why get riled up about not getting into closed beta testing?
Sure, it sounds like fun. You also get to see some of the new stuff, and test it out before anyone else gets to see it.
So those complaing...are you complaining cuz you just want in to see the stuff? Or would you actually be on there testing?
Would you give it more than an hour of your time?
It's test too...so it's not like you get to keep your character.
So what's the real big draw to get into it?
I've been able to get into Hellgate: London's beta for awhile, still havent done it. :P And really, I just don't know if I see why CoH beta would any different.
Or is it like a special pride? You get to say, "Yeah, I was a beta tester?"
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