Doctored Wounds 4th Enhancement Bug

_DTS_ · 04-23-2007 11:47 AM

I just placed Four lvl 50 Doctored Wounds into my Intergration power.

At the 4th enhancement, your suppost to get a 4% bonus to all healing powers. Though when I try and use my self heal, I get no improvement.

I was getting +666 health before I slotted the 4th enhancement, and im still getting +666. (Yes I know how odd it is to have 666 as my heal amount)

Does this "buff" only effect heal other powers?

Castle · 04-23-2007 12:13 PM

Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

Zantheus · 04-23-2007 12:19 PM

First post.

Weee

Thanks Castle.

Poison_Pill · 04-23-2007 12:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, I starting to feel picked on. Does that include Akaloid?

Poison Pill

_DTS_ · 04-23-2007 12:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

AWWW....But I assume it will still buff my Intergration and and maybe dull pain...

glycerine · 04-23-2007 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sort of information would be helpful so we are not making uninformed decisions. Is it just toxic res / heals, or is something like Rooted such a power that does not allow outside healing buffs?

FlyingCodeMonkey · 04-23-2007 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.
General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is very useful to know, but rather ... obscure. Is there any way a non-forumer could tell this by-design feature from a bug? If not, then something should be done in the future, because this question will be asked again.

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iakona_NA · 04-23-2007 12:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]
To further clarify: These powers are set to ignore all outside strength buffs/debuffs (IgnoreStrength = True), and only pay attention to the strength buffs from enhancements slotted in these powers. If they were not set to ignore strength buffs, all damage buffs on the caster would boost the damage resistance of the power.

The best solution to this is to disallow damage resistance slotting in these powers (while keeping the damage resistance Effect and marking just that Effect as disallowing all strength buffs (AllowStrength = False), which includes enhancements and outside buffs), and then setting the entire power to not ignore outside strength buffs/debuffs (IgnoreStrength = False).

I asked Castle about this a while back, and he said "Yeah, I know about that issue. Getting it changed isn't exactly easy, though (despite it being a 1 cel change!)" So, I guess if we complain about it loud enough, the higher-ups will take notice and allow Castle to make this simple and logical change.

Plasma · 04-23-2007 01:00 PM

Some days, keeping the encyclopedia of CoH knowledge in my head to feel like I'm not screwing up feels more like work than fun.

Saint · 04-23-2007 01:01 PM

Interesting tidbit... I'll have to remember that...

*goes back to the drawing board and does more reseach for /regen slotting*

The end of one story always marks the beginning of another...

Shadow_Stone · 04-23-2007 01:04 PM

Then the statement on the buff is disengenous because it clearly states that it provides a bonus to healing powers, and reconstruction is a healing power no? I really feel the policy needs to be changed, because otherwise your saying this slotting the 4th enhancement is really for empaths and empaths alone, and other sets that allow for the healing of others. Or you start needing to add small print like an insurance policy...which should be very popular....

Rajani Isa · 04-23-2007 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.
General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is very useful to know, but rather ... obscure. Is there any way a non-forumer could tell this by-design feature from a bug? If not, then something should be done in the future, because this question will be asked again.

[/ QUOTE ]Then again, until now, how many buffs to healing could most people with a self-only heal get? And MMs are the only ones I can think of that have a heal-other, but they don't get power boost (or whatever the "secondary" effect boost power is.)

EDIT : Although, could we at least have a note added to those powers stating such? In the long-help?

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Lemur Lad · 04-23-2007 01:05 PM

While the news from Castle is disappointing, I would move on and say that one of two things needs to happen:

1) Either they allow for the fix as described by iakona.
2) They Document this ingame somehow.

These little +heal IO bonuses are pretty commonplace. However locking people out of them in the fairly ubiquitous self heals that give Toxic, seems to be shooting them in the foot.

"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

Liquid · 04-23-2007 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Some days, keeping the encyclopedia of CoH knowledge in my head to feel like I'm not screwing up feels more like work than fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was thinking.

Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
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Lemur Lad · 04-23-2007 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some days, keeping the encyclopedia of CoH knowledge in my head to feel like I'm not screwing up feels more like work than fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be worse, this could be swg....

"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

Kosmos · 04-23-2007 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Some days, keeping the encyclopedia of CoH knowledge in my head to feel like I'm not screwing up feels more like work than fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Kosmos

Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)

Sarrate · 04-23-2007 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]
To further clarify: These powers are set to ignore all outside strength buffs/debuffs (IgnoreStrength = True), and only pay attention to the strength buffs from enhancements slotted in these powers. If they were not set to ignore strength buffs, all damage buffs on the caster would boost the damage resistance of the power.

The best solution to this is to disallow damage resistance slotting in these powers (while keeping the damage resistance Effect and marking just that Effect as disallowing all strength buffs (AllowStrength = False), which includes enhancements and outside buffs), and then setting the entire power to not ignore outside strength buffs/debuffs (IgnoreStrength = False).

I asked Castle about this a while back, and he said "Yeah, I know about that issue. Getting it changed isn't exactly easy, though (despite it being a 1 cel change!)" So, I guess if we complain about it loud enough, the higher-ups will take notice and allow Castle to make this simple and logical change.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, it means Reconstruction is immune to heal debuffs, like Poison/Weaken?

Rajani Isa · 04-23-2007 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]
To further clarify: These powers are set to ignore all outside strength buffs/debuffs (IgnoreStrength = True), and only pay attention to the strength buffs from enhancements slotted in these powers. If they were not set to ignore strength buffs, all damage buffs on the caster would boost the damage resistance of the power.

The best solution to this is to disallow damage resistance slotting in these powers (while keeping the damage resistance Effect and marking just that Effect as disallowing all strength buffs (AllowStrength = False), which includes enhancements and outside buffs), and then setting the entire power to not ignore outside strength buffs/debuffs (IgnoreStrength = False).

I asked Castle about this a while back, and he said "Yeah, I know about that issue. Getting it changed isn't exactly easy, though (despite it being a 1 cel change!)" So, I guess if we complain about it loud enough, the higher-ups will take notice and allow Castle to make this simple and logical change.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, it means Reconstruction is immune to heal debuffs, like Poison/Weaken?

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

Debuffs and buffs of any kind are identical in how they are applied, the difference purely being a case of it being a negative or positive value.

Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

BanzaiBadger · 04-23-2007 01:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some days, keeping the encyclopedia of CoH knowledge in my head to feel like I'm not screwing up feels more like work than fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember, never let the players make an uninformed decision

_Nyhm_ · 04-23-2007 01:37 PM

does Empathy and Rad self healing auras fall under this category?

iakona_NA · 04-23-2007 01:47 PM

All heal powers that do not allow damage resistance enhancement should be allowing +Heal boosts. If any do not, they are likely bugged.

Kosmos · 04-23-2007 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Certain self heal powers are tagged to not allow outside healing buffs. Reconstruction is such a power.

General Rule:
If your heal also grants resistance to toxic, it won't benefit from +Heal buffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This raises a lot of questions. The main ones are:

1) Does it up HP buffs? (If so I assume it doesn't work in Earth's Embrace, Hoarfrost or Overload.)

2) Does it up +Regen?

3) Do special Resists such as those in O2 Boost (Disorient, Sleep, END Drain) and Aid Self (Disorient) stop the +Heal too?

I'm guessing the answer is "no" to all of these.

If it's "no" to the first two then the only self heals that would be buffed are Siphon Life, Life Drain, Dark Regeneration, Essence Drain, Stygian Circle, Dark Dwarf Drain, Reform Essence, White Dwarf Sublimation, and the healing portions of Dull Pain and Essence Boost. (This list is just a one pass quickie - I may have missed some.)

Kosmos

Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)

Obsidius · 04-23-2007 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
While the news from Castle is disappointing, I would move on and say that one of two things needs to happen:

1) Either they allow for the fix as described by iakona.
2) They Document this ingame somehow.

These little +heal IO bonuses are pretty commonplace. However locking people out of them in the fairly ubiquitous self heals that give Toxic, seems to be shooting them in the foot.

[/ QUOTE ]
As the owner of a Stone tank, I must completely concur.

Bandeeto · 04-23-2007 02:33 PM

Soooo...it can't be slotted in Health (resist: sleep)?

I'd like it confirmed that it will work with Dull Pain, Instant Healing and Fast Healing.

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Rajani Isa · 04-23-2007 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Soooo...it can't be slotted in Health (resist: sleep)?

I'd like it confirmed that it will work with Dull Pain, Instant Healing and Fast Healing.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that the IOs cannot be slotted into the powers.

It is the fact that the powers with toxic resist were coded in such a way that the only thing that affects them are enhancements slotted into them directly.

Set bonuses aren't enhancements, they are global bonuses/buffs.

EDIT : In addition, I doubt that the heals that provide status protection or resistances are affected by this as _Castle_ did specifically call out toxic - and that is the only /damage/ resistance I can think of tied to a heal. And damage resistances, not mez resistances, are what are improvable via bonuses/enhancements.

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