Cross-sever influence transfer?
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2007-03-08 09:32 in The Market and Inventions
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So basically all I have to do is put up every TO I get at the AH for 1 inf and hope someone uses the same one for a character trade and I get instant millions?
Anyone else see a problem here or am I misunderstanding this?
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Nope, youve got it nailed XD
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Nobody will pay that much for low lvl items because they know there will be no guarantee of the funds going where they want.
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That's true of the people that come to the boards and are aware of how this works. Most of the playerbase doesn't come here, and those are the ones that will be victimized.
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But even a smart player that doesn't read the forums would probably figure out he needs to lo-ball the initial price to try weed out other peoples stuff. Personally, I don't recall reading anywhere whether it tells you how many of something are for sale, or if that at least one copy is available.
I really don't think it will be that hard to transfer inf to lower level characters. Transfering during "off" hours, picking off level enhancements (not purchasable from stores), and making sure nobody else is selling the item already should make it fairly safe to do.
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I don't agree. Most people I talked with thought posting a common item for a HUGE price would insure no one would pay for that item. They then could log onto another char and buy the item for that huge price, thereby completing an inf transfer. I believe that the same percentage of the playerbase will believe the same thing. Which is about 95%. Positron has now (indirectly) said that those players are gonna wind up giving their inf to some unknown player somewhere who put up the same item for a minimal amount.
Granted, this system isn't designed to be used to transfer inf, but that's what people will try. And they are gonna be so pissed when they "lose their life savings" that I'm betting accounts will be closed. Good, bad, or neutral, I predict that will happen many, many times.
Chances are there'll be an NPC in Wentworth's who will explain how the system works. That way stupidity won't have an excuse. Maybe someday there'll be a system for easy transfer of influence, like money orders.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
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And they are gonna be so pissed when they "lose their life savings" that I'm betting accounts will be closed. Good, bad, or neutral, I predict that will happen many, many times.
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I couldn't agree more. The blind market is by no means the best way to do business, nor to prevent "twinking." I believe we will be inundated with stuff we (admittedly) don't want to look at from people trying to get rich quick. And it's certain that the extra crap the market database will be loaded down with will slow down legitimate trades. The issue isn't what we humans 'can ignore' in the database, it's that the server that has to manage it all won't know the difference.
Not to mention the people who don't read the boards that are gonna be cheesed when they see how this really works.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Bah...just institute an ATM and be done with it!
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Bah...just institute an ATM and be done with it!
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Works for me.
I partly agree.
People looking to buy and sell will be fine. But people who never came to the boards will get the idea of using it to transfer stuff and chuckle inwardly at their own cleverness until they discover they have just purchased a TO for 10 M influence.
In part, I can't feel too much sympathy: they can't miss the fact that there is no sign saying who the TO is from. In fact, i find it amusing that people will be complaining to the Devs "I was trying to misuse your system and I LOST MY MONEY!!!"
But you have a point. How many people will leave the game because of this?
On the other hand, they can probably make all that money back by intercepting some other Level 50 n00b's transfer...
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Transfering aside, I think that the method of going to the lowest offer is not a good idea. The purpose of the blind auction is to maximize the benefit to everyone involved. People end up buying things for what it is worth to them. The way it is supposed to work, however, in the case of multiple suppliers, is that you end up paying what is closest to your offer without going over. It isn't to give undeserved profit to someone who undervalues their selling item. In the science of Supply Chains, people bid what things are worth and they offer prices of the perceived value and are rewarded for this, not punished for it.
Meh... If I closed my eyes and ignored the influences transfer idea, I like the way WW is set-up. Maybe they need to put a warning of some sort like "Attempting to launder influence from other servers may result in loss of influence. Whitworth's was designed to be a center of trade, not as a bank."
There you go.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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That is disturbingly brilliant. I would have never thought of that. You did a fantastic job.
Symbolically speaking, the last roadblock has fallen. I am officially euphoric for the arrival of i9. 
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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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More like this though, with all due respect Positron:
Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Players B1, C1, D1, E1, F1, G1, ad-nauseum have already put up the same Level 12 TO for between 1,000 inf and 100,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 1,000 inf. Over and over again. Straining your server's traffic endlessly, until eventually he's bought all of the level 12 TO's for 1,000 inf. Then he moves on, spending the better part of 5,000,000 inf on other peoples' level 12 TO's that ranged in price from 1,001 inf to 100,000 inf.
Since players B1, C1, D1 etc. want less, and are obviously trying to plug up the market with their items, their "for sales" are processed first, and they end up with a minimal amount of inf (minus fees) for their effort, and your server is lagged to hades and back by the effort that the guy trying to transfer influence has wasted. With enough time, he will eventually succeed. Meanwhile, this plan will not.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Also being in a team with an AV should get you a low-level so.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I have a better Idea,
This has been bouncing around in my head for a while, but I am looking at starting is two things.
1. A Cross Server Paragon City Bank "group".
2. A Paragon City Bank Global Channel
What I would like are people who are willing to enter into this Channel and the "members" would offer to be the go between for people to move Influence from server to server. Heh, in a perfect world I would like to have everyone wear a top hat and monocole, heh.
There would have to be a some rules.
Global friends must first be made.
Money is ALWAYS transferred to the Banker first.
There might be a small charge, something like 50k per mil... I haven't worked that out yet.
We would also need both a hero and a villain from each server that is willing to trade money.
We would also have to work as a group to make sure that we had enough cash flow on all the servers.
Anywhoo... that's been bouncing around in this crazy lid of mine for a couple of years... I'm just really lazy and haven't put any effort into it.. :P
Does anyone think that this would be a worth while thing to setup on COH/COV?
Pilotball...
I've actually been looking for help arrange such things myself. I give you X-inf on server Y, with you then giving X-inf (minus tip/fee) on a different server.
That whole "who do you trust" thing comes up, though. Not everyone I trust has that kind of influence on the target server, after all, nor do they always have a use/need for that much influence on the origin server...
Some people I play with on a different forum also tried arranging for a salvage "swap meet" ages ago, too.
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I have a better Idea,
This has been bouncing around in my head for a while, but I am looking at starting is two things.
1. A Cross Server Paragon City Bank "group".
2. A Paragon City Bank Global Channel
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While it's not an entirely bad idea, it really belongs in Suggestions and Ideas .
The idea has come up before too.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
[ QUOTE ]
Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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I do not believe what I just read, this to me says that I9 with the exception of the invention system "possibly" will be a joke.
I believe that this system could have been a bit better than what I just quoted, but I will not flame right now as I am in a good mood I will give it til I get home later and re-read the thread and then flame if I feel like it. Though flaming is a waste of energy sometimes its warranted. Bad Posi 
*smacks Posi on the wrist with nerf-bat*
I think they "Devs" should implement an in game Influence/Infamy email structure to better inf transfers, I mean in game email is somewhat useless, why not make it a bit exciting and be able to email inf between characters and even ones on the same account?
The devs may or may not ever create a sanctioned twinking system. In any case, WentPrime is not that system.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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I've actually been looking for help arrange such things myself. I give you X-inf on server Y, with you then giving X-inf (minus tip/fee) on a different server.
That whole "who do you trust" thing comes up, though. Not everyone I trust has that kind of influence on the target server, after all, nor do they always have a use/need for that much influence on the origin server...
Some people I play with on a different forum also tried arranging for a salvage "swap meet" ages ago, too.
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Yes, the group would have to be moderated somehow. I don't mean with a heavy fist, but there should be somewhere/one to go to that would be able to tell you "yes" this person IS a Banker.
Again, I haven't put to much actual design thought into it.. but the idea has been bouncing..
And yes, I've been on the boards before, so I know where the suggestions and Idea's section is.. sigh... thanks.
This topic kinda pertained to the whole idea that I had, sorry for mentioning it in this thread, self assigned board mod.
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I think they "Devs" should implement an in game Influence/Infamy email structure to better inf transfers, I mean in game email is somewhat useless, why not make it a bit exciting and be able to email inf between characters and even ones on the same account?
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Obviously the devs are not designing it to be a safe way to transfer inf/items around. And while I'll use it to do just that I don't actually want them to do tha either.
The system is designed to be as hard to farm for influence/infamy and control as they can make it. Yes it can maybe be controlled in special cases though I have my doubts about the viability of that plan, it's main design is a bit Rube Goldbergean deliberately.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Obviously the devs are not designing it to be a safe way to transfer inf/items around. And while I'll use it to do just that I don't actually want them to do tha either.
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LOL. During the 1920s this would have been referred to, coloquially, as a racket. It is, in essence, a form of moderated lottery, not an effective method of deterring "twinks". I'm sorry, but this consignment system could be used a method of deliberately hobbling gameplay. I'm not inclined to specify how, but it is definitely conceivable.
This is the MMO Marketplace equivalent of a network administrator deciding that the best security measure for their e-mail system would be to use open-relays so that everybody and their brother can spam directly from their mail server. It is a very, very bad idea.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
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What this all amounts too is that people will feel like they are walking into a casino rather than a consignment shop. Even looking to make the simple transaction, you will be worried about getting somehow screwed either by the system itself, or another player, or the lack of knowledge on how it works and screwing yourself. My thinking...pretend I9 never happened and just hope I10 brings some useable content to the game.
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You can still make full use of the Inventions system without using the consignment shop. The consignment shop is an optional extra. If you don't like it, don't use it. I plan to use inventions, but I don't plan to use the consignment shop.
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You make a excellent point. I see all the confusion, speculation and frustration over one part of I9 and it just kind of turns me off to the whole thing. It would be nice to not have to buy all new enhancements every 5 levels or so. That alone could make the whole thing worth all this grief.
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You won't. All this other stuff aside, common inventions are going to be a godsend.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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That is disturbingly brilliant. I would have never thought of that. You did a fantastic job.
Symbolically speaking, the last roadblock has fallen. I am officially euphoric for the arrival of i9.
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Actually, it's stolen wholesale from FFXI.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Transfering aside, I think that the method of going to the lowest offer is not a good idea. The purpose of the blind auction is to maximize the benefit to everyone involved. People end up buying things for what it is worth to them. The way it is supposed to work, however, in the case of multiple suppliers, is that you end up paying what is closest to your offer without going over. It isn't to give undeserved profit to someone who undervalues their selling item. In the science of Supply Chains, people bid what things are worth and they offer prices of the perceived value and are rewarded for this, not punished for it.
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QFT.
Having people rewarded for pricing their goods near their true value would allow average prices to adequately reflect the true value of goods.
As the devs often do, they try and fix one problem, in this case twinking, but they do it in a way that causes more problems than it fixes. And in this case it fixes nothing because there are multiple ways to circumvent this to twink. Ways that no one has really considered.
Twinking is a fact of life in MMOs and intra server it's going to be much easier and cheaper to use a intermediary. Especially now that you can do it in one transaction. Inter server twinking is going to be tricky but still easy. There are literally thousands of unique goods that can be sold on WWs. Some of which are quite rare, but quite useless.
For example, what if I do this:
1) Character A1 (level 50) puts up a level 48 Sci/Mut Fear duration DO that dropped as trash loot while playing (after checking to see if there were any for sale and finding none) on the broker for 100 inf.
2) Logs off; Logs on character A2 the same player's level 12 character.
3) Character A2 buys said enhancer and immediately put it up for 100 inf.
4) Player logs on level 50 and buys enhancer for 5 million.
The likelihood of there being another DO like this on the broker is infintessimal. The DO isn't sold in stores, and it's not very valuable so no one is looking for it. But it's rare. That's the funny thing. So intercepting that trade is going to require having that particular enhancer ready to go in the minute it takes the level 50 to set this up.
If you think the devs stopped twinking, you're dreaming.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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That is disturbingly brilliant. I would have never thought of that. You did a fantastic job.
Symbolically speaking, the last roadblock has fallen. I am officially euphoric for the arrival of i9.
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Actually, it's stolen wholesale from FFXI.
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Who're you kidding, our devs probably paid retail.
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Since I know this is the era of giving players what they want and I know that there's a lot more competition for the MMO dollar these days, I can see a system of influence transfer may come into being.
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My argument doesn't really have anything to do with encouraging "twinking". In fact, I'd be all for preventing most of it by prohibiting trades between toons on the same account (just filter those sale orders and buy orders out of the list). My main concern is that this method of consignment is all of the following:
a) the least fair to the playerbase because they have no real way to determine commodity value
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Actually, I'm pretty sure that legitimate buying and selling will set fair market price for things people actually want (i.e. Recipes). Most inf transfers will probably involve low level TO's that nobody really cares about buying anyway, and will be ignored by the general population.
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b) prone to generating tons of spammed lowbie enhancement and salvage sell orders
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Lowbie enhancements will most likely be ignored by everyone, except those trying to do inf transfers. As for salvage, I've you're going to be crafting, you'll need it. And I hope if I need a specific piece of salvage it's available, no matter how common it may be.
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c) conducive to huge (and i believe unanticipated) amounts of lag as a direct result of b).
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I think most of the lag will be do to too many players hanging out in the consignment shops. It's why I believe that some of them should have been put in different zones (AP->GC, Talos->IP).
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Twinking, for me, isn't really the issue, though it certainly is the motivation behind the Wentworth's and Black Market casino...erm...consignment house.
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Twinking is just a fact of life in MMO's. Before we had AT FOTM, now we'll have recipe combo FOTM (and probably both combined).