Cross-sever influence transfer?
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2007-03-08 09:32 in The Market and Inventions
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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.
Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.
Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).
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That is disturbingly brilliant. I would have never thought of that. You did a fantastic job.
Symbolically speaking, the last roadblock has fallen. I am officially euphoric for the arrival of i9. 
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Actually, it's stolen wholesale from FFXI.
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Who're you kidding, our devs probably paid retail.
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No dude, I saw their Sam's Club card. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Hey, check out this mental exercise.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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I've actually been looking for help arrange such things myself. I give you X-inf on server Y, with you then giving X-inf (minus tip/fee) on a different server.
That whole "who do you trust" thing comes up, though. Not everyone I trust has that kind of influence on the target server, after all, nor do they always have a use/need for that much influence on the origin server...
Some people I play with on a different forum also tried arranging for a salvage "swap meet" ages ago, too.
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After reading this thread I am really questioning whether or not the Devs want an economy at all. My answer to that question is no. They don't want to leach inf out of the system as can be seen by the favoritism of the buyer in the Posi quote. They are doing everything they can to favor those who don't have Inf. This is just fine with me. As many posters have stated, ignoring the cross-server Inf transfers, I see nothing wrong with low-balling prices or the system they've set up.
You may be saying to yourself, so why this quote? Getting to that, hang on. More than one person here is arguing about how to get Inf to other characters. Obviously it's something that many of us want (I would say majority but you know, the Forums and semantics, the twain will never part). If the Devs aren't concerned about the economy in the game and are more focused on the Invention part of this issue, then why not let us give Inf to starter characters? Instead of touching the precarious global chat or Email how about being able to send a 'wire' inside WW to your starter characters? Hell, attach a 15% fee to it but I fail to see how it would harm the game at this late stage.
Even if they are trying to create a true ecconomy, then this would leach Inf out of the system nicely.
Those who like to start off poor wouldn't have to participate.
Now let me get this straight, players with loads of influence are unlikely to go looking for enhancements with this new system. Nor do they "need" to auction their enhancements when they can just sell them and add to their already vast sums of money. So, no reason to go to the auction house other than recipes. Guess the recipes will likely go towards the largest servers.
New players will likely find everyone lowballing enhancement prices right around where the stores would buy them at. Which means from a seller standpoint, why would anyone sell anything when the prices are that low? It is less hassle to just sell them to the nearest store rather than WAIT for an auction to finish. So, few people will likely sell enhancements at the auction house. This in turn makes it easier for the players to do what the developers don't seem to want them to do, which is absolutely hillarious.
Fewer people use the system except to abuse it, and the system ends up becomeing a hassle for people to use normally instead of something straightforward and upfront like an auction that actually uses consignments.
I can't believe that developers who live in America with all of its examples of free markets would think of this system as being anything but another drag in CoX.
It is bad enough that they are adding loot to the game. Now they are adding a guessing game to boot, just to waste more of my time.
It would have been really nice if I could have just looked, seen what the lowest price was, bought it, and moved on with my game. Dear lord, why complicate something that takes us away from the game? Perhaps this is a new mini-game that the developers want players to play? The, Auction House game, where you to can sit and instead of makeing a hero, make a banker!
Thanks Devs, for adding something that I never wanted to see.
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I can't believe that developers who live in America with all of its examples of free markets would think of this system as being anything but another drag in CoX.
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alkward and annoying = fun, dont you know that? 
I dont know, seems to me that it takes a certain level of arrogance to ignore all the systems that we have in place in RL that works just fine and throw this mess in. My moneys on this being this issues arena/base white elephant, shame really as it could ahve been a good thing.
Maybe they should just add a "mail" system like WoW has. It wouldnt make cross-server possible but its a great feature.
I do? That's bizarre. I never have, and yet you seem so certain that I have. A wonder that you seem to know me better than I know me.
If the editorial "you" was good enough for you....
edited to add: It is, in retrospect, possible that I've been leveling brutes so much that I over-generalized based on playing an archetype that goes non-stop activating powers.
I slot Brutes for damage first, too. It makes the fights shorter so you spend less END.
The point, however, is that there is no challenge inherent in figuring out what a given character most desperately needs in the low levels after you understand the archetypes and what they are supposed to be able to do.
The point is that there obviously is a challenge in it since you're doing it wrong. :-)
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Oh come on - how un-American is the consumer rewarding the lowest seller? Or the seller still making a profit, even if its a small one per item. Look at freakin' Wal-Mart, Target, Sam's Club, Costco, etc. Other MMO's are practically Beaverly Hills, "I'll pay top dollar for everything!", custom-boutique fantasy lands that if done in real life would give most of us exceedingly large debts over our heads or never buying anything because the price is too far out of reach.
I don't see the problem Zen. Just because you think that the prices are to low doesn't mean that most people do. Frankly the consignment house system can not be setup to cater to the 50's. Because they won't be the majority of the people buying there. The majority will be people in the 10 - 40 range and there are entire sets that are in the 10 - 30 range. And people down in those levels don't have lots and lots and lots of infamy/influence.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Heh, I'd rather have a WentPrime that nobody uses than one that is a centre of price gouging and rare hoarding.
People will hoard rares anyway, but this way I don't have to see it.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Frankly the consignment house system can not be setup to cater to the 50's.
Quite the reverse. The pre-50 game, as far as Inventions go, is not merely unimportant, but totally irrelevant.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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I do? That's bizarre. I never have, and yet you seem so certain that I have. A wonder that you seem to know me better than I know me.
If the editorial "you" was good enough for you....
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Touche.
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edited to add: It is, in retrospect, possible that I've been leveling brutes so much that I over-generalized based on playing an archetype that goes non-stop activating powers.
I slot Brutes for damage first, too. It makes the fights shorter so you spend less END.
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If you're playing your brutes to have short fights, you're not maximizing your fury bar. Plenty of END + minimal fury is a particularly useless brute, especially when we're looking at the lower levels and the amount of +damage from fury greatly outstrips what you can get from slotting TOs and DOs. This is clearly a playstyle difference, but I believe very strongly in using the brute's inherent to its fullest potential, and doing this means slotting end reducers before I slot damage in most attacks.
I have figured out what works for me, and you continuing to insist that I am somehow "wrong" when I've run 2 brutes to 50 this way, is nothing short of willfully belligerent.
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The point, however, is that there is no challenge inherent in figuring out what a given character most desperately needs in the low levels after you understand the archetypes and what they are supposed to be able to do.
The point is that there obviously is a challenge in it since you're doing it wrong. :-)
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I remember now why I have you on /gignore in the game -- you, and one other person, after 18 months. You are officially the first person to reach that list in both the game and the forums for me. There's really no reason to be rude when you're stating an opinion, and adding a token smiley does not make it non-rude. Nor, for that matter, does picking out one tiny bit of a post and leading it into a discussion that has become completely off-topic just for the sake of arguing and trying to look superior. I backed off and admitted that my perspective on accuracy+end as primary concerns is specific to my long term and recent playing of brutes, and I stand by that. I also stand by the statement that there is NO CHALLENGE in figuring out what to slot. You play the character, you figure out what it needs based on your playstyle.
Go do what works for you. Clearly, no one else's opinion matters, and all you want is an argument.
~Wyrm
p.s. Just to have something on-topic: Cross-server inf transfer is inevitable. Curious to see what the devs do with/about it.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Frankly the consignment house system can not be setup to cater to the 50's.
Quite the reverse. The pre-50 game, as far as Inventions go, is not merely unimportant, but totally irrelevant.
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What a bizarre notion. Certainly 50's will seek to optimize where lower levels your in that fight between influence/infamy and slots for your powers. But there are entire sets that cap out at level 30.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Frankly the consignment house system can not be setup to cater to the 50's.
Quite the reverse. The pre-50 game, as far as Inventions go, is not merely unimportant, but totally irrelevant.
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What a bizarre notion. Certainly 50's will seek to optimize where lower levels your in that fight between influence/infamy and slots for your powers. But there are entire sets that cap out at level 30.
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Venture, in his own harsh way, is right. Inventions will have the most utility to level 50s and since level 50s (really all high levels) have the most capital and means to obtain capital, they will be market drivers no matter what you do.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Heh, I'd rather have a WentPrime that nobody uses than one that is a centre of price gouging and rare hoarding.
People will hoard rares anyway, but this way I don't have to see it.
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Oh you'll see it, and it will be worse than anything you can imagine. Broadcast, global channels, etc. will be filled with selling spam that wouldn't need to exist if you had a better auction system.
See, that what I've been trying to get you all to see. This system is already being used and it doesn't do what the devs think it does, it just drives people to sell off-market like they do in FFXI.
In EQ2 where people can price what they want, you almost never hear anyone trying to sell anything. It's all on the broker. It's cheaper than you would expect too.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Venture, in his own harsh way, is right. Inventions will have the most utility to level 50s and since level 50s (really all high levels) have the most capital and means to obtain capital, they will be market drivers no matter what you do.
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Hmm, yes and no, there are actually two markets within the CH system. The 10 - 30 market and the 30 - 50 market. Aside from outfiting alts 50's will have the maximum impact on the 30 - 50 market. I can easily see those prices going for high amounts simply because it isn't hard to earn a million influence or more. And if you have it then you can spend it to outfit yourself.
But I'm not seeing it and frankly it wouldn't be a good thing for that kind of pricing in the 10 - 30 market. Well probably more accurately the 10 - 25 market. The mid 30's is when you can start earning inf easily.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Venture, in his own harsh way, is right. Inventions will have the most utility to level 50s and since level 50s (really all high levels) have the most capital and means to obtain capital, they will be market drivers no matter what you do.
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Hmm, yes and no, there are actually two markets within the CH system. The 10 - 30 market and the 30 - 50 market. Aside from outfiting alts 50's will have the maximum impact on the 30 - 50 market. I can easily see those prices going for high amounts simply because it isn't hard to earn a million influence or more. And if you have it then you can spend it to outfit yourself.
But I'm not seeing it and frankly it wouldn't be a good thing for that kind of pricing in the 10 - 30 market. Well probably more accurately the 10 - 25 market. The mid 30's is when you can start earning inf easily.
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Those low level sets have added effect enhancers like KB protection that level 50s of certain sets will pay anything for and give their alts enough money to buy at any price as well.
And in the 30s, you earn about 20% of the inf you earn in the 40s.
The devs are trying to avoid things that can't be avoided.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
<QR>
If you're playing your brutes to have short fights, you're not maximizing your fury bar.
The game isn't about maximizing your fury bar. It's about maximizing your XP bar.
I have figured out what works for me, and you continuing to insist that I am somehow "wrong" when I've run 2 brutes to 50 this way, is nothing short of willfully belligerent.
You made an absolute statement. You got called on it. "Works for me" is not the same as "optimum solution".
But there are entire sets that cap out at level 30.
Which should not even exist.
They'll be good for what, a week? Then you'll have better options available. This is where someone bleats "but IOs don't degrade with level!". Well, if I have 20% IOs and going up in level now means I'm eligible for 25% ones, then yes, they just degraded. Anyone who goes out chasing sets at low level (and yes, 30 is low level) is just running two treadmills instead of one.
Low levels are transitory. Only the endgame matters.
Economically, if an economy does develop (and it won't involve WentPrime if it does), people with level 50s will dominate it. They already have large stockpiles of cash and can earn more much, much faster than lower level characters can. My back of the envelope figures suggest level 15-20 characters earn about 15-30K per hour, 20ish characters around 50-60K an hour, upper thirties 200-300K an hour and level 50s over a million an hour. (That's based on routine play, running paper/scanner missions. I'm sure there's a more efficient way to farm cash but I expect the relationships to remain the same.) Since WentPrime artificially depresses prices, lowbies have no chance at getting any of that cash away from the 50s. Worse, since the 50s are going to bypass WentPrime by barter or direct sales, none of that cash is going to bleed out of the economy. Far from being a bastion of the proletariat, WentPrime is more like something Westin Phipps would have come up with.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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WentPrime is more like something Westin Phipps would have come up with.
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Or Monty Hall. "What's behind Recipe #2?!?" OH NO! You could have saved 750,000 Inf!
Or, given the congestion of the "WentPrime" markets from the droves of "Lottery Players", more like. "Recipe #2? Where? It wont load. No really. It still says loading." *Gets coffee and vacuums carpet.* "What the...? It's still not loading?!?"
Showing prices means each new seller will try to sell their goods at a lower price than the ones who already have their items listed. That is how to drive down prices.
Anything else is just a gimmick that just won't work.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
Except that showing prices doesn't drive down prices in other games either. It seems to drive them UP.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
I know for a FACT that's not true. I played Eve-Online for two years. It has the most sophisticated market of any game I've ever played, and I can assure you of one thing: The fact that prices are shown quite clearly drives prices DOWN. Sometimes almost depressingly so, but still - the prices are fair.
My Guide to Illusion/Kinetics Control.
CoH_Player_101: It's okay. Your choice in avatars makes up for a world of indiscretion.
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Low levels are transitory. Only the endgame matters.
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I seriously hope you're joking...
an interesting snippit about the devs feelings on inf transfering, Im informed somewhere in the game files is an announcement along the lines of "You have been blocked for money transfering" 
The devs may or may not ever create a sanctioned ANTI-twinking system. In any case, WentPrime is not that system.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!