I9 Statesman's Task Force Preview - Discussion
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2007-02-21 16:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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We wanted there to be a reason to have Archetypes other than Blasters and Defenders on your team. Controllers will find themselves greatly desired in the final battle if the team wants to have any chance of winning.
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Do you really still think that Defenders do anything better than Controllers at the top level?
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Oh absolutely they do. The buff scales are higher than the Controller ones. The team our sgs were thinking of would have 2 Rad Defenders, an Emp or two...and a Kin with some muscle. Barring that you then go to the Fire/Kins, Ill/Rads, Mind/X and some muscle.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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As far as future content goes, Hero 1 could always make a retun, and give us a Rikti TF.
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I wouldn't count on that...
Well isn't that interesting
oh well, Hero 1 wasn't the only one in the Dawn Patrol or Vanguard
Edit: oh and Villain 1 ftw
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@Yuuden on Victory Server.
Badge count as of 02/01/11: 1165
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We are thrilled to present a preview teaser on Issue 9s upcoming Statesmans Task Force, directly from the desk of Positron (Matt Miller).
Check out the preview here, along with a series of exclusive screenshots of the tremendous action that awaits you in "Breakthrough!"
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hey is u guys check out the screenshots, u will a Samurai (i think its a scrapper) having like a pole coming out of each of his hand, and then when he fights a giant robot, he have like a sword that is glowing.
Does that mean we will have a new powerset r am i just crazy lol?
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Isn't that "robot" Black Scorpion? I want to know about this powerset also. Is it a new animation for spines or what?
Also, I think that there will many chances to fight Villains (GW, BS, Scriocco, etc.). In the preview Matt Miller states he does not want to divulge all the info about the TF as to spoil it's surprises.
Another item, I am finally glad I can break some ish on hero side lilke in villain mayhem misions. Woot and double Woot!
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The robot is a toxic from the looks of it.
The glowing sword is becuase of build up.
The spike shown in the other pic is the character's sword.
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I don't think we are talking about the same picture and that may be my fault. At the very bottom of the webpage there is a set of five pictures. I am referring to the top middle picutre. I would attach it but I do not know how.
It def looks like Black Scropion, no? and the same pic shows the samurai crouched with a wooden? spike protruding from each hand (the right hand can barely be seen). That is what I am referring to.
it's the Fing-Longer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finglonger#Fing-Longer
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@Yuuden on Victory Server.
Badge count as of 02/01/11: 1165
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Oh absolutely they do. The buff scales are higher than the Controller ones. The team our sgs were thinking of would have 2 Rad Defenders, an Emp or two...and a Kin with some muscle. Barring that you then go to the Fire/Kins, Ill/Rads, Mind/X and some muscle.
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Any of the important buff scales? Tohit debuff? Sorry, John, but that only works at less than 5% of the base effectiveness. Recovery, regeneration, recharge buffs? Hah, those aren't buffs, they work just as well in a Controller's dirty hands as a Defender's. Same for regeneration debuffs.
I suppose I should be proud that my kineticist will take one fewer Siphon Power, and Transfusion does a whole 13% more, but it's not going to really get my attention compared to what a Controller can do for the rest of the damn mission.
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We wanted there to be a reason to have Archetypes other than Blasters and Defenders on your team. Controllers will find themselves greatly desired in the final battle if the team wants to have any chance of winning.
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BWAAAA?
This a typo? Don't they mean :
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We wanted there to be a reason to have Archetypes other than Scrappers and Controllers on your team. Tankers and Blasters will find themselves greatly desired in the final battle if the team wants to have any chance of winning.
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I really, really can't remember the last time I've said : "Stop the team, we need a Blaster."
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I really, really can't remember the last time I've said : "Stop the team, we need a Blaster."
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Or, "If we could only find a Controller." 
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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I really, really can't remember the last time I've said : "Stop the team, we need a Blaster."
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Or, "If we could only find a Controller."
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Er, I can actually say I've said that recently. Trying to stop Diabolique is a PitA without decent, long-lasting immobilizes. I'll also take an Ice/, Fire/, Earth/, or Mind/ controller over any Emp/, Sonic/, Kin/, or Trick Arrow/ (and I happen to like Kin/) when toying with Vahzilok.
Also, have you ever been to a Hami raid?
To be fair I've needed a Blaster a few times for AVs recently. Most recent is the Envoy of Shadows, our damage output just wasn't high enough. We had a Dark Defender, Empath and two tanks. Once we got two Blasters on the team the damage piled up much faster.
As for Controllers, essential at Hami Raids and never turned down.
If anything, I see Scrappers being the left out class here.
Back on topic, this Task Force seems miles better than the Recluse one, can't wait to try it out.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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We wanted there to be a reason to have Archetypes other than Blasters and Defenders on your team. Controllers will find themselves greatly desired in the final battle if the team wants to have any chance of winning.
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I don't quite see how they can say they learned something and then say this. Having a certain AT be required, which is basically what this says, is no better than having one or more be marginalized.
At best this needs to be clarified.
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That is not "Basically" what that says. It is a Worst Case Scenario Interpretation of a VERY general statement.
Jeebus people. It's not even on test yet. Could we possibly hold back on the betchin and moanin about how Unfair it is to the CoV people, or why Certain AT's being Absolutely Required is Bad - until we ACTUALLY know if this is the case?
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Optimism is nice, but words do have specific meanings. I'm not "betchin and moanin". I'm understanding English.
"... if the team wants to have any chance of winning," is not a general statement. It doesn't mean "if you want it to be easier."
The meaning of what he said is that you won't have a chance if you don't have a controller.
I said it may need to be clarified, because the devs are not always good at saying what they mean. But he doesn't say a controller will be helpful on that page. The statement I quoted means controllers are needed to win. Without them you don't have a chance.
IMO, there's no real problem if every AT is needed, so long as they're all needed. Of course, that's impossible. But heroes in general are strong enough (yes even Blasters) to earn their keep on a team even if they aren't the most useful.
Eight Ill/Rads is the optimal team for just about anything. But that doesn't mean that there won't be a place for others.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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This I disagree with. Having different parts of the TF be much easier if you have at least 1 of all the ATs is a good thing - it will be incentive for people to build balanced teams. Having X AT be required for success isn't cool. I *like* that TF's can be accomplished by varied groups, and the variety of playstyles/tactics that evolve from that make this game continually different, even if I've done the TF already.
What you are advocating is just the same kind of cookie cutter teams we have on the RSF now, just on a larger scale.
In case you haven't noticed, most of the lag issues in this game are due to inefficient coding/graphics. I don't object to newer, nicer graphics, but when they are proveably coded in a highly inefficient manner, the problem isn't the client systems.
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I'm sorry you like not having classes being required to finish a TF (And really, it's not required so much as things get /much/ harder that you'd be foolish not to bring said class, because you always gravitate toward setting up a team for easy mission completion.), but when you don't go this route you end up with the problem with the LRSF. You can't have it both ways. Needing an AT to get past a section of the TF is preferable to that AT not being able to do the TF at all because no one wants to invite them.
And, yes, the game is coded in efficently. The game spents lots of resources on pretty things, like costumes, for one. That said, with hardware near what I have specified, I run this game at 1920x1440 resoultion with all the graphics turned up to their maximums. I don't have problems with Grandville.
Wether or not the coding isn't optimal is a non-issue. Updates are coming, more will be added. Hardware will become obselete. If you want to keep playing this game you /will/ have to upgrade. It's just a fact of life. You can complain about it but it /will/ happen.
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I really, really can't remember the last time I've said : "Stop the team, we need a Blaster."
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Or, "If we could only find a Controller."
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Er, I can actually say I've said that recently. Trying to stop Diabolique is a PitA without decent, long-lasting immobilizes. I'll also take an Ice/, Fire/, Earth/, or Mind/ controller over any Emp/, Sonic/, Kin/, or Trick Arrow/ (and I happen to like Kin/) when toying with Vahzilok.
Also, have you ever been to a Hami raid?
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I guess the " " doesn't mean sarcasm anymore.
I was commenting on the popularity of Controllers, because the quote from the article about the Statesman Task Force acts as if they are unpopular and have a hard time being included on teams, which in my experience if far from the reality in game (added that in incase it wasn't clear for the crowd that didn't understand my previous sarcasm).
Oh, and yeah, I have been to many Hami raids....
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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Well if Heroes get the ability to earn the Heatseeker badge then I demand Villains be able to earn RV Isolator!!!!
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You're kidding right? Yeah it's been frustrating that I haven't been able to get the Heatseeker badge with my villain...but when LRSF was introduced, villains got the chance to get the Kronos Titan GM badge, which wasn't available before to villains AND was only available for heroes through a mission specific story arc.
Main Hero: Kinnetix Lvl50 Fire/Kinetics Controller - Liberty
Main Villain: Caustic Frost Lvl50 Ice/Thermal Corruptor - Liberty
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This I disagree with. Having different parts of the TF be much easier if you have at least 1 of all the ATs is a good thing - it will be incentive for people to build balanced teams. Having X AT be required for success isn't cool. I *like* that TF's can be accomplished by varied groups, and the variety of playstyles/tactics that evolve from that make this game continually different, even if I've done the TF already.
What you are advocating is just the same kind of cookie cutter teams we have on the RSF now, just on a larger scale.
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I'm sorry you like not having classes being required to finish a TF (And really, it's not required so much as things get /much/ harder that you'd be foolish not to bring said class, because you always gravitate toward setting up a team for easy mission completion.), but when you don't go this route you end up with the problem with the LRSF. You can't have it both ways. Needing an AT to get past a section of the TF is preferable to that AT not being able to do the TF at all because no one wants to invite them.
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The fact remains that you are advocating a TF design that requires cookie-cutter teams, and cookie-cutter = blah boring. They would be more balanced than the current cookie-cutter brute+corr RSF teams, but still cookie-cutter. That's not a good thing. Design the STF so all ATs have a very useful role, such that having the AT present makes the TF much easier, sure that's a good thing. But design the STF so that all AT's are required? (or so difficult w/out them that it is insanely frustrating) not a good thing.
Some flexability is needed to keep it from becoming what the RSF has: min/max team = boring, non-ideal = severely frustrating. That's too polarized, and just not fun.
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I'm absolutely positive I saw a mention about the new Hami Trial being on a 24 hour timer, not the reward. On the other hand, my searchfu with my dialup prevents me from finding it (it'd take me several hours...no kidding, REALLY bad dialup here at work).
That said, if the LRSF is on an HO timer (new info to me, thanks), I can't deny the possibility that the StatesTF will be the same. I did say my stuff about the StatesTF was speculation. Who knows? They may change both, or neither. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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I think the quote we're bothing thinking of is from the MMORPG.com interview:
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MMORPG.com: What can players expect from the new Hamidon encounter?
MM: Smaller raids, better tactics, and less potential for griefing. Since the Hamidon encounter will be much more do-able with small groups now, weve had to go ahead and put the once per 24 hours restriction on the Hamidon Enhancement you can get from it, so it doesnt become farmed 10 times in a day. Once players start seeing the power of the Set based inventions, they may start picking the Rare Recipe option upon defeating Hamidon instead!
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Positron specifically notes that the timer applies to the HO reward, but then mentions that he doesn't want Hami raided multiple times back to back. I suppose we may not know for sure until it hits the Training Room. Given that many of us will be over on test working out new strategies when it does, I certainly hope that Hami can be raided more than once a day.
Although few details are given by the preview, I do have this to ask in regards to the screenshots:
Why do we have to fight the CoT again?!
Including an Oranbega level in the TF makes it look so much more painful to complete.
Recluse's weapon is probably drawing it's power from oranbega or something.
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@Yuuden on Victory Server.
Badge count as of 02/01/11: 1165
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The fact remains that you are advocating a TF design that requires cookie-cutter teams, and cookie-cutter = blah boring. They would be more balanced than the current cookie-cutter brute+corr RSF teams, but still cookie-cutter. That's not a good thing. Design the STF so all ATs have a very useful role, such that having the AT present makes the TF much easier, sure that's a good thing. But design the STF so that all AT's are required? (or so difficult w/out them that it is insanely frustrating) not a good thing.
Some flexability is needed to keep it from becoming what the RSF has: min/max team = boring, non-ideal = severely frustrating. That's too polarized, and just not fun.
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Requiring all the at's isn't boring at all. It's simply a fact that you need different skill sets to complete the mission. It encourages teamwork and it makes things very good over all.
Secondly, there are five basic AT's. There's some overlap in powers, and Kheldians have some of the abilities that other classes do. A full team is 8 players. If you need the abilities of one of the five AT's to succeed, you've still got three free slots to play with.
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Well if Heroes get the ability to earn the Heatseeker badge then I demand Villains be able to earn RV Isolator!!!!
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You're kidding right? Yeah it's been frustrating that I haven't been able to get the Heatseeker badge with my villain...but when LRSF was introduced, villains got the chance to get the Kronos Titan GM badge, which wasn't available before to villains AND was only available for heroes through a mission specific story arc.
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You never did the Siren's Call trick huh? Yeah, my villain had that badge after just a couple months of CoV going live. Red side was supposed to have the flier since forever. You gonna tell me that since the devs can't get their zone spawn to work right, it makes it ok to give heroes a crack at it in a guaranteed spawned environment? Sorry, won't fly (no pun intended).
edit: Let me also say that I seriously doubt heroes will be fighting against the flier in that final fight. The devs are wanting their players to not neccessarily have to farm PvP temps to finish missions, but instead give the players a way to "earn" what powers might be "needed" to help them finish a specific goal. I see the flier getting "reprogrammed", or some other RP type deal, to help out the heroes in the end. Just an idea...
From reading the preview of the states tf, it appears that omg you guessed it any sort of team makeup will be able to accomplish this supposedly ground breaking new end game (previously Hami was thought to be that). Though it's unforunate that it took the villians rsf to make them realize how to configure a balance and well oriented team for this task.
With the usage of shivans , nukes, and veng from leadership pool also temps powers this might turn out to be a joke of course this is all in theory.
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I don't quite see how they can say they learned something and then say this. Having a certain AT be required, which is basically what this says, is no better than having one or more be marginalized.
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No, having certain abilities be /required/ to beat something is /good/.
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I have to vehemitely disagree with this. Requring the holy Triad to accomplish missions/quests/etc. is lazy, old school and has been done to death. I want to see try innovation and not a computerized versions of PnP RPGs. Cryptic has taken a minor step in moving away from the Triad with CoH and CoV. There is plenty of overlap between teh ATs, so you don't need any one AT to accomplish things. And I say small step as their still have classes which is still old school. IHMO Cryptic was on the right path with their original game design. Hopefully they'll really be able to cut loose with MUO
With that said I'm looking forward to the this TF. I haven't really attempted to LRSF as it doesn't strike me a all that much fun. After nearly 3 years of COH/CoV I'm watning a lot more then a huge AV zergfest. I want more then just have to mash buttons.
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I'm sorry you like not having classes being required to finish a TF (And really, it's not required so much as things get /much/ harder that you'd be foolish not to bring said class, because you always gravitate toward setting up a team for easy mission completion.), but when you don't go this route you end up with the problem with the LRSF. You can't have it both ways.
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Bull hockey. Yes you can.
CoH/V ATs have lots of switch hitters. You don't have to have a Controller to have Control; you can have certain Defenders, Scrappers, Blasters and Tankers along. You don't have to have Defenders to have debuffs; you can have Controllers and some Blasters along. You don't have to have Blasters/Scrappers for damage, as you can have Scrappers/Blasters, Tankers, and some Controllers and even Defenders.
The key here is that you make something very useful that each AT is strong at. The LRSF rewards two things primarily: massive single-target damage and massive durability / mitigation. It presents you with 8 hugely damaging bags of HP. The design is flawed because it actually intentionally limits the value of control powers and the sustained damage, extended conflict aspect is counter to the Stalker AT's design and to most MM pets.
Make aspects of AT design important to succeed, not the ATs themselves.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I would like to say that everything looks good except one thing: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE FLYING SPAGETTI MONSTER GIVE THE COT A REST!!!!!
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**lifts eyebrow**
Take not the name of FSM in vain, blasphemer!!!!
And everyone buy a t-shirt!
Dec out.
LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!