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Also don't forget what Positron said about gameplay... IOs are not required to play and they are not raising the difficulty of mobs against the introduction of IOs, so keeping SOs is fine and in some cases will yeild better bonuses.
It's all coming across as a whole lotta "me me me" crap here people.
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This was advertised as something geared toward high-level players. Back when inventions were part of I8, they were specifically mentioned as the first part of the end-game content. By restricting key parts of this content to story arcs, which level 50s have already run through, this means everything said before is no longer true. Playing alts to get this content is exactly what we'd been told wasn't the point of the system - that we'd be playing our retired 50s again.
Moreover, if the number of story arc-unique IO drops were greater than the number of story arcs within a level range, everything in that pool is going to be vastly more expensive due to rarity.
This isn't entitlement, or all about me. This is about trying to improve a system that penalizes players for long-term play.
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Could we have private sales at Wentworth's thus being able to sell our recipes or drops to our specific level fifty's from our lower level characters that run story arcs?
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I see little reason to code for this when trades between alts are easy enough to carry out with the help of a friend or an SG storage item.
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Lighthouse, my own personal opinion is this:
If we can't go back and do our story arcs, and there's no way we can sway you from granting reciepes off them, then why can't we just award a reciepes to the whole team, when a story arc is completed? Sure this would cause a lot more reciepes to be accessed, but the chance would still be unlikely that you would get an ultra-rare drop out of it.
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Ok, sure, it would have been best if Inventions had been in the game all along and you got them as you did Story Arcs, but I don't think that should preclude the team from adding extra "stuff" to those arcs.
Of course, we want to give people a way to get that same "stuff" via different methods if you have already done that arc. This is exactly what the good Doctor refers to in his post. The team is looking at that. We certainly appreciate your input on the subject.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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I'd still rather have Pools A, C, and D and make Pool B (Story Arcs) contain a nice subset of some of what can be obtained in both Pools C and D. That way the reusable content (A C and D) contains everything one could possibly want, while Story Arcs get you valuable things via soloing that you could otherwise only get via teaming (C and D).
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I like that idea.
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Very, very nice.
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Yes, that idea there looks like a winner to me.
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Agreed.
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/signed
I like the idea of having Story Arc drops drop from Mayhem/Safeguards as well, but it'd need some sort of level based slider: Basically 0% at level 10 and below getting up to close to 100% by level 50, thereby giving characters a way to get Story Arc stuff they couldn't get from the storyarcs that they've outlevelled or just missed. Of couse there's the problem that a level 50 would get the drops for lvl 30 sets and they way "need" on of the special process IOs from a set that capped out at 30 or 40.
Frankly it's those IOs that'll be the hot commodity at Wentworths, etc. My lvl 50 may not want the Level 30 Acc/Dam, but by gosh that chance to stun or Toxic DoT may be exactly what I want to slot in.
Doctor Brainstorm: If at all possible I would strongly suggest that those special process components be put into the random drop from enemies, which would alleviate much of the heartburn in this thread.
If it's harder to complete a set of 6 IOs for one group, well, that's OK, but if there's a particular IO that you just KNOW will be in the highest demand (and you must have SOME clue about that, you mad genius, you!) then make those more easily available just to kep the economy in scale.
Thanks!
Thanks again for the clarification.
Do you guys at least understand WHY we're saying this though?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
There's also no real string to scanner missions and they're often very easy to complete. Story Arcs tend to be more involving and at times more difficult.
I agree that its still 3 to 5 missions to get to a safeguard, but you can get shared credit on teams and not even have to do scanners to unlock one.
An 8 man 50 team can do 5 scanners in PI and run 8 Safeguards in a row. Does that sound hard to get to?
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
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I am listening to your ideas, but a Flashback system is simply not something we can implement in a timeframe you would all be happy with.
Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.
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As a suggestion, perhaps you could use the souvenirs to see who did what story arc and then award story arc based stuff against them. It gives an accurate indication of who took and completed various story arcs.
The check could be applied the first time the character logs in after the system goes live and then randomly generate (or fixed depending on how the final system works out) whatever drop that the story arc (and potentially things within it) are supposed to drop.
Seems like a good compromise and an excellent use for the totally unused souvenirs. 
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Also don't forget what Positron said about gameplay... IOs are not required to play and they are not raising the difficulty of mobs against the introduction of IOs, so keeping SOs is fine and in some cases will yeild better bonuses.
It's all coming across as a whole lotta "me me me" crap here people.
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This was advertised as something geared toward high-level players. Back when inventions were part of I8, they were specifically mentioned as the first part of the end-game content. By restricting key parts of this content to story arcs, which level 50s have already run through, this means everything said before is no longer true. Playing alts to get this content is exactly what we'd been told wasn't the point of the system - that we'd be playing our retired 50s again.
Moreover, if the number of story arc-unique IO drops were greater than the number of story arcs within a level range, everything in that pool is going to be vastly more expensive due to rarity.
This isn't entitlement, or all about me. This is about trying to improve a system that penalizes players for long-term play.
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...I'll say this again.
QUESTION: As a level 50, are you unable to use anything besides story arc inventions?
ANSWER: No. You can use other inventions.
QUESTION: Did the devs say 50s could improve their character with inventions?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: Do you need story arc inventions to improve your character?
ANSWER: No, other inventions will work just fine.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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Thanks again for the clarification.
Do you guys at least understand WHY we're saying this though?
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Yes, we hear you and understand.
Please again take note of Doctor Brainstorm's original post:
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Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs? Here's a nice reward that carries with it some good inherent value.
Now again, I must stress, the majority of sets, including entire complete sets come from simply defeating enemies. All the costume piece and temp power recipes come from defeating enemies. There are Rare recipes (ones that have a worse chance to drop than others) in Pool A (the defeating enemies pool) as well.
We also will be actively monitoring datamining on every aspect of this system through all of Training Room and into Live.
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Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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. My only concern about adding drops to MM/SFG completes is that, since completing them or paper/radio missions count as broker credit for everyone on the team, people would abandon Story Arcs in order to farm 8+ MM/SFG missions in a row. Reducing the chance of Story Arc Pool drop would probably lessen that, but it still would likely be an unintended consequence of the change. Maybe lowering the Story Arc Drop rate on MM/SFG missions even more, to something like a 10% chance?
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To a degree, it may be necessary. I think story arcs would remain preferred by soloers (most story arcs are shorter than twelve missions, and in any case are more reliable for recipe rewards in addition to normal story arc bonuses).
For teams, anything they can work on together would be preferable even if there was a very low chance. The problem there says more about Story Arcs than anything else -- a way to allow multiple team mates to align them would be the elegant fix here, but probably wouldn't be reasonable until mid-i9.
If the potential problem is content no team can reasonably work together toward, or a tendency toward newspaper missions, I know which one I'll take.
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Just add an extra drop into both pools C and D. This drop would be chance to pull from pool B. Set it to a low occurance, like 5% heck maybe even 1%. But this way level 50s aren't entirely screwed out of the story arc recipies.
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5% or 1% would make that into a mega grind / farm fest. It would have to be a bit higher maybe 10% A 1 in 10 chance is not terrible, not fantastic but not terrible....well ok its borderline terrible seeing as these things are time consuming to do.
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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Thanks again for the clarification.
Do you guys at least understand WHY we're saying this though?
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Yes, we hear you and understand.
Please again take note of Doctor Brainstorm's original post:
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Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs? Here's a nice reward that carries with it some good inherent value.
Now again, I must stress, the majority of sets, including entire complete sets come from simply defeating enemies. All the costume piece and temp power recipes come from defeating enemies. There are Rare recipes (ones that have a worse chance to drop than others) in Pool A (the defeating enemies pool) as well.
We also will be actively monitoring datamining on every aspect of this system through all of Training Room and into Live.
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Yup yup. I wasn't trying to be snarky at all (and I think you know that that's not me when talking to you guys), I just want to make sure that you guys understand that we're not just asking for something for free. We just want to make sure that our Level 50s (whether they have or have not done every arc) isn't getting hosed when it comes to certain sets.
So far, the feedback we've been getting on this has really raised my spirits though. So thank you guys for that.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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QUESTION: Do you need story arc inventions to improve your character?
ANSWER: No, other inventions will work just fine.
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Too general.
Do we need story arc inventions to improve our characters in spectacular ways, such as the special effect IOs from Numina's Convalescence? Quite possibly.
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I am listening to your ideas, but a Flashback system is simply not something we can implement in a timeframe you would all be happy with.
Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.
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Hey Doc, any chance of possibly hitting retroactive drops for completed story arcs? That'd finish the argument real quick.
Though it was probably one of the first things brought up, I really don't want to go through 200+ posts because I fell behind on the forums.
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It's like I said, we are looking into other options that keeps the mechanic of the four pool system. Our intention is to not make people feel "gimped" for previously completing all their story arcs.
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Cool. I was worried it would simply be a retroactive reward for existing souveniers. That would eliminate me because, honestly, I find most stories boring so I skip the arcs. I dont stand around and get powerlevelled either. I used to street sweep and now I do newspaper missions.
But from what you say, its best of both worlds. For people, like me, who outlevel and deliberately skip Story Arcs because they are boring, maybe we will have an alternative too.
Now, GOING FORWARD, I'll probably do whatever story arcs I can because, even though they bore me, now I know I'll get something for it.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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WHY STORY ARC EXCLUSIVES ARE BROKEN:
Because they are the ONLY thing you can't repeat. The only. Think about everything else on the list posted by Dr. Brainstorm:
TF - Any character 12+ can do Positron's TF (if a hero, obviously) ANY TIME THEY WANT.
Trials - Any one 24+ can do a respec trial ANY TIME THEY WANT.
Killing mobs of all levels - With exemplar you can do this ANY TIME YOU WANT.
You might need a team, that's OK. But story arcs can only be done once. Fix that or no recipes be available only from story arcs. All you're going to accomplish is creating:
ULTRA RARE LOOT
Which goes against everything you said you wanted to accomplish. It will make the game more hardcore than WoW or Everquest II.
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What he said.
Umber's Hall of Heroes & Villains
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An 8 man 50 team can do 5 scanners in PI and run 8 Safeguards in a row. Does that sound hard to get to?
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Given that they'd have done 15 missions for 8 chances to a Story Arc pool rare recipe (probably 3-4 of said recipe, 4-5 of pool A recipe) spread across 8 people? I think it sounds a little low of a rate -- less than one reward per player in thirty missions. Thankfully, they could complete all of their safeguards at the same time, and have a number closer to one reward per player in twelve missions, not particularly far from what a lower story arc could provite.
We're talking more a connection to the completion text at the contact, not as a reward to every player at the bank.
I'd love the ability to just repeat the 45-50 story arcs over and over. They're some of the best missions in the game, and both sides contain plenty of AVs and unique tilesets to keep you interested.
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Minus 1 billion coolness points for not calling the thread Drops II: Electric Boogaloo. 
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I actually wanted to go with Drops II: Drops Harder
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How about Drops II: Drop with a Vengence
Liberty Server (@enderbean)
Arcs on Live
#1460 Hometown Rivalry
ok, im confused by all the freaking out about story arcs...
The way i understand it, is that a lvl 20ish story arc, will drop a formula for a 20ish IO set. If you a 50, why do you even care about a 20ish IO? Shouldnt you be more concerned with trying to find one of the story arcs running on PI(theres a ton) and finishing one of those so you can get the 40+ formula??
And, it dosent seem the story arcs are the only place to get a random rare component, or formula, its ONE of FOUR places to get it, so if your not able to do a story arc for one, run a tf, everybody can do a tf, most specifically 50's, we've access to ALL of em.
Instead of bashing something you've never seen, how bout waiting to see how it turns out? I gotta tell you, outa the 4 MMO's i play, the dev's take more care of the players here than in most others, and i dont think they would purposely screw everybody who's ever made it to 50 in one chapter, or exclude all those existing charecters from the new content.
I'd also take this time to address the complaints about the chapter drops expanded content. Can you name other games that release new content 2-3 times a year, for FREE? Sure, they could put out one massive chapter update, that had new story arcs, new stuff, and new AT's for both sides...but that would likely be ONCE a year, if we are lucky. How many would complain then.."the chapters arent coming quick enough"
i8 is barely off its training wheels, and already i9 is on deck warming up...cut em some slack.
If you have a complaint, make it that not one "redname" has addressed the "signature powers" thread that a player proposed, and has had tremendous feedback from the player base. It seems a workable idea, fair, balanced, and adds a whole new level of customization to your charecter, and they cant even say "hey, good idea, well look into it", or "thats trash, never gonna happen"
Have some faith in the game that some of you have been playing for years. As someone who's left and come back again, i can say that generally, they dont disapoint you...unless your waiting for a villan epic AT
We All Agree Story Arc Drop Pool is a Bad Idea, Stop Arguing Against It
This mostly falls under the category of "if you're not going to read the thread, don't participate in it." We've got a redname telling us they're looking for a different solution. It ain't going to happen the way it was originally explained, so, let it go.
Possible Solutions <ul type="square">[*] [u]Flashback[u] - Off the table. We've been told it's not a feasible solution coding-wise unless you want I9 delayed for a really long time, and that delay is not something the devs will consider. Stop arguing for it (as a solution to this problem). Let it go.
[*] [u]Mayhem/Safeguards To Be Included in Story Arc Pool[u] - NO!, bad idea, precisely because we don't have a flashback system. If I want a level 30 recipe set that gives my pets a chance to taunt, and I'm currently level 50, I can't pick up level 30 Mayhems. It's the same problem as Story Arcs.
[*] [u]Small Percentage of Drops from Other Pools[u] - NOOO! As we learned from the Halloween event, anything under 10% chance of a event or drop is disaster for some unlucky few who need to repeat an action over 300 times just to get that rare drop. Do you really want to do a TF 300 times to get a Story Arc Pool drop?
[*] [u]Just Have Three Pools[u] - Simplicity itself. There's no magic about the number 4, in fact, in the early levels, there are only 3 pools to begin with. Move the rare drops from Story Arcs into the other pools. Allow Story Arcs to be a 'wild card' pool that drops rares from the other pools.[/list]
Concerns/Questions
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when we exemplar/malefactor down, we don't get Ehancement drops, right? Do we still get salvage drops when exemplared? I can't remember.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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Minus 1 billion coolness points for not calling the thread Drops II: Electric Boogaloo.
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I actually wanted to go with Drops II: Drops Harder
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How about Drops II: Drop with a Vengence
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Drops II: The Search for more money!
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs? Here's a nice reward that carries with it some good inherent value.
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WHY STORY ARC EXCLUSIVES ARE BROKEN:
Because they are the ONLY thing you can't repeat. The only. Think about everything else on the list posted by Dr. Brainstorm:
TF - Any character 12+ can do Positron's TF (if a hero, obviously) ANY TIME THEY WANT.
Trials - Any one 24+ can do a respec trial ANY TIME THEY WANT.
Killing mobs of all levels - With exemplar you can do this ANY TIME YOU WANT.
You might need a team, that's OK. But story arcs can only be done once. Fix that or no recipes be available only from story arcs. All you're going to accomplish is creating:
ULTRA RARE LOOT
Which goes against everything you said you wanted to accomplish. It will make the game more hardcore than WoW or Everquest II.
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Holy crap...
I agree with EG?
DOOOOOOOOOM!
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero
You forgot Possible Solution 5: Repeatable level 45-50 story arcs.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I gotta say that I'm really suprised by the level of entitlement I'm seeing represented here. Where is it written that every character is entitled to everything? At this exact moment can you get the Winter event badges? No, you can't. Now what if they don't use those same badges next year, but you want that cool badge on your new Ice/Ice tanker? Tough. You're outa luck. Same thing here for Inventions... you may not be able to earn every IO, but that's what the friggin auction houses are for! In that way, it's even better than unavailable badges because if you can't get it on a certain character, someone else can or you can use an alt!
Also don't forget what Positron said about gameplay... IOs are not required to play and they are not raising the difficulty of mobs against the introduction of IOs, so keeping SOs is fine and in some cases will yeild better bonuses.
It's all coming across as a whole lotta "me me me" crap here people.
Now that I got that out, let me say that I do agree that having certain drops tied to non-repeatable content may make getting those kinda tough, but I have no problem with that. Where's the reward of getting something if it can be gotten at anytime? You might as well just have a friggin store selling the IOs in that case.
Jeez people lighten up, it's still a friggin game.
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Stop using logic and common sense, all you'll end up doing is crossing streams. As we all know, crossing the streams is bad. Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.