I am still trying to figure out as to why they dont realize this will kill any teaming already have. First off it will be very hard to get 8 people to all be doing the same story arc at the same time. It is hard enough getting people together to even do TFs/SFs. The issue with those is that sometimes the xp is so good you level so fast and you would end up missing out on your arcs. Because recipes dont scale backwards( a level 50 recipe made into a lvl 35 IO) you will have huge gaps in where the IO recipes simply wont be enough in certain level ranges unless you get drops like crazy.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Ok, pitchforks and torches set aside... For the time being.
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* Some of the sets (the rarer ones), have parts of them that are only attainable by completing a Story Arc.
* This makes 4 pools from which recipe rewards can come from. Pool A is enemies, Pool B is Story Arcs, Pool C is Task Forces, and Pool D is Trials.
Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs? Here's a nice reward that carries with it some good inherent value.
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Ok, dislike is by far to mild a term for my reaction of "Pool B". Comparing "dislike" to what I feel would be the same as comparing a tiny pond to the Atlantic Ocean.
I say this not only as a user with 2 level 50s, but also as a person with a level 43 Peacebringer, two villains and two heroes in the high thirties, and a half-dozen characters in their twenties. All will feel cheated (not gimped) to some extent, some more than others.
Add to that, the 40-50 arcs are longer with more risk thanks to increasing number of AV/EBs (hey 1 full arc of them in the Hero's Hero arc, how nice) than the 20-40 range (with very few execptions).
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Now again, I must stress, the majority of sets, including entire complete sets come from simply defeating enemies. All the costume piece and temp power recipes come from defeating enemies. There are Rare recipes (ones that have a worse chance to drop than others) in Pool A (the defeating enemies pool) as well.
We also will be actively monitoring datamining on every aspect of this system through all of Training Room and into Live.
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Are you considering putting a "streak breaker" code into place for some one who doesn't get many drops, or gets nothing but common drops?
Another thing to consider is the sgmode tax built into Issue 6. I know this doesn't fall within your "domain" but it will tie into the economy that you are building, because like I said elsewhere the only characters with a lot of extra prestige now are those without a group or those that are trying to get the INF badges.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
<QR>
Getting close to the 30 page mark. Here's my updated, annotated list of preferred solutions:
* Giving TFs/Trials and Story Arcs the same Drop Pool
My personal favorite. TFs/Trails require some time and effort to complete, but, unlike Story Arcs, are repeatable with the same character. Only real down side I see to this is that it would change the 4-pool system to a 3-pool system.
* Slim chance of cross-Pool drops from mobs
Allows for the occasional special drop for those users whose playstyle differs from dev expectations. It could, however, provide incentive to farmers to street hunt.
* Story arc drops for entire team on final arc mission
Encourages teaming to counter a player's desire to solo and run only his own Story Arcs to maximize Arc drops.
As for ideas I'm against:
* Story Arc Pool drops for completing Mayhem/Safeguard missions
A large team could easily minimize the number of "filler" missions needed in order to unlock large string of Mayhem/Safeguard missions. Additionally, Safegards take at most ~5 minutes to complete. This would greatly encourage MM/SFG teams over running Story Arcs. I would be against this unless the chance of a Story Arc drop was reduced to make it happy, but uncommon occurance, on finishing the mission for the mission holder.
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I still don't understand all the doom and gloom.
Oh noes, I can't get several sets out of all of them! I might as well just delete my 50 now!
Seriously, what's wrong with all the other stuff?
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Someone else has probably already answered this, but I'm not going to read all the way to the bottom and then forget to respond. 
Nobody knows what "all the other stuff" is. That's the problem. People see this scenario and imagine the worst possible case -- that being, "The one thing that is absolutely perfect for my level 50, that fits so well with the concept, is the one thing I can't get. I don't know what it is yet, because the build isn't even on test -- but that will be the one thing I get locked out of."
That's why all the doom and gloom. Because we don't know what all the other stuff is that we will get, we worry and fret about what we imagine we won't.
~Wyrm
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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* Some of the sets (the rarer ones), have parts of them that are only attainable by completing a Story Arc.
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What does that mean to a level 50 character, who not only has completed every Story Arc possibly available to them, but is also low on INF due to funding their SG (as Statesman and Positron expect them to) and/or working hard for Prestige on behalf of their SG ...?
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* There are different pools every 5 levels, to conicide with the recipes that are available at those levels.
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This means that, if you have already outlevelled the top point at which a particular type of IO shows up, you can never get that recipe for yourself. As these are part of sets you have yourself already described as "rarer than the rest" - essentially, the recipes are ultra-rare. That means prices in the Astronomically Huge department.
How will a mere 30 or 35 afford those?
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Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs? Here's a nice reward that carries with it some good inherent value.
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A perfect solution has already been suggested, at least for the level 50 heroes: Safeguards and Mayhems should at least have a CHANCE of dropping a rare recipe. Essentially, each Safeguard and Mayhem is an un-scripted "arc" of missions, with a definitive end-point.
...
Quite frankly, you (or the rest of the team) will have to make a definitive list of what sets have a component in "Pool B", nd what level ranges that component is available in. If ANY of those sets is, thus, in a position where you can reach a level where it stops being available by your own activities, THIS IS AN UNACCEPTIBLE FLAW.
Either you have to look at retroactive rewards based on existing souvenirs, OR, you will have to spread those limited recipes upwards through subsequent pools.
Or come up with some other means of acquiring out-levelled Recipes. You never know, after all, if an EXISTING character might want to complete a set that is, at least nominally, "beneath their level".
...
At present, I remain unsubscribed, based on your post.
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I have a personal sg and vg so setting up sg teams is not possible, and i have no problems with that. I love PUGs. But how will this system treat players like myself?
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This is a very common concern.
From what we know currently, a sweepingly vast majority of virtually all the IO sets are entirely constructable from what you'll pick up off of enemy drops, so depending on what those "super rares" from SAs, TFs, and Trials are going to be, you might not be impacted much, if at all.
Also consider that you won't have to have an *entire set* to get several nice bonuses. I imagine at least partial enhancement groups from every single IO set are constructable entirely from enemy drops, though this *has not* been confirmed (Note to Devs, it would be nice if you could confirm this). Thus you might not be affected much at all. Again, this depends on what your IO goals are and what the chase rares are going to be.
Pretty much the only way you'll be impacted is if one of your goals is to obtain one of the "super rares" that will only occur in, say, story arcs under the current implementation. There are actually only a limited number of SAs you can ever possibly complete, so you might not *ever* get the super rare you're looking for. Under the current implementation, story arc rares for certain level ranges (say anything from 30-40) will be some of the most rare IO drops in the game (there are very few SAs in the hero-side 40+ game, so virtually everyone of those levels will do them, but there are several from 30-40, many of which will be skipped or never run due to abandoning a character before those levels). Those super-rare SA drops might never, ever hit the consignment shop, or hit it so rarely that they're never really seen, they're snatched up so quickly.
Pretty much the worse case senario is that one of the ultra-hot enhancements everyone will want (say the +Recovery enhancement from Miracle) happen to be in the B-set of rewards, making them both extremly limted *and* in great demand. If anything like that is the case, then we'll *all* be affected greatly. 
If, however, the very limited SA rewards list is stuff like the Dam/Conf enhancement from the various Confuse sets (ie, not something anyone would really want to slot unless they were jonesing for the 6th tier set bonus), then few of us will be negatively impacted because in spite of being very rare, if nobody wants it, who cares?
Also the devs are hard at work on a solution that will allow us access to the B (Story Arc) set in different ways. Personally I advocate the B set being redistributed among the other 3 sets, then being rebuilt with duplicates of some of the more useful recipes from sets A, C, and D, making them not something you *have to get from SAs* but rather a happy bonus for completing the SA if you don't prefer to get the SO. But there are other solutions being efforted, and the devs may come up with their own, novel, solution that has nothing to do with anything discussed on the boards.
All that said, if you never complete SAs, never run TFs, and never do Trials, there will be a small number of enhancements (and perhaps even entire enhancement sets?) that you will have to camp the consignment houses for, buy online, or trade for among your friends/SG members. But that number is apparently quite small, so it might not be worth worrying about.
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Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs? Here's a nice reward that carries with it some good inherent value.
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First, don't make like this is a hardship for you. Second let me be clear, we don't seem to dislike the Story Arc idea - there is no seem we flat out hate it.
"dislike" is too mild a word to use here, and "seem" makes it seem like you don't understand why, so let me be clear as to why I don't personally like it as follows:
What I find amazing about this is that you actually seem to feel/indicate that the risk/time already faced/spent by some players with some characters isn't nearly as valuable or worthy of reward as that which a player has NOT already faced the same risk or spent the same time on with a character. That you feel that way, boggles the mind.
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A large team could easily minimize the number of "filler" missions needed in order to unlock large string of Mayhem/Safeguard missions. Additionally, Safegards take at most ~5 minutes to complete. This would greatly encourage MM/SFG teams over running Story Arcs.
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If the award is only given to the mission owner, even the largest team would only be able to get one chance at an item every six missions. This would only encourage people to all align their missions and do the Safeguards at the same time. With a properly calculated rate of Pool B recipes, the actual reward rate would be no higher than that of the average story arc.
If we're stuck choosing between a lot of people running newspaper missions or a lot of fifties completely unable to get Inventions content, I know which one I'd prefer.
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ok, im confused by all the freaking out about story arcs...
The way i understand it, is that a lvl 20ish story arc, will drop a formula for a 20ish IO set. If you a 50, why do you even care about a 20ish IO? Shouldnt you be more concerned with trying to find one of the story arcs running on PI(theres a ton) and finishing one of those so you can get the 40+ formula??
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I understand why people don't get this, as its buried in all the other info and concerns, but I have posted this around 5 times so far.
There are basically unique, special enhancements that are not enhancements. They give you a new power for practical purposes. +12.5% Endurance Recovery. +10% Psionic DR. Knockback protection. So on and so forth. They just happen to be something you slot in, say, a heal power, or a defense power, but they work either full time, or as long as the power in question is toggled on.
And this function is not limited by the level at which you craft them (as I currently understand it).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
This has probably been mentioned before, but I don't want to read through the whole thread.
I'm in favor of having all recipies obtainable via mob killing, with Story Arc/Trials/Task Forces having a greater percentage to drop said recipies.
I'm not in favor of anything with a guaranteed drop as that only promotes farming.
So maybe you have common recipes, rare recipies, and unique ones. A typical mob might have a 1% chance to drop a common, .1% chance to drop a rare, and a .01% to drop a unique. Completing a Story Arc would increase the rate maybe 10% (so a 10% chance to drop a common, 1% rare, .1% unique). Completing a Task Force increases the chance further, say 25%, and a Trial even further.
This way, while you're more likely to get a recipe by completing Story Arcs and Trials and whatnot, you'll still be able to have a chance to collect all recipies in a given range simply by doing normal missions/street sweeping.
Just so you know, the Mods locked this down because people weren't reading all the way through before posting. Lets try not to make them do it again. Pretty please?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Please read the dev digest at least : Doctor Brainstorm says they want to stick with the four pool solution that they're currently using.
I personally don't have a problem with the story arc linking for some recipes....suer it would be nice if my soon to be lvl 50 could go back and get some of those rewards, but since I'm not a min/maxer I highly doubt that I am going to feel gimped.
Since I have done all of 1 trial and NO TF's, becuase most of them take too long. Some of us don't more than 3 hours at a time to spend sitting at our computer playing, and In my case I can only spend that much time one night a week. This makes it darn near impossible to do most of the TF's because most people play more often than that. I should find that more of an issue, but it isn't again because I don't find I need the best of the best enhancements to not feel gimped.
I certainly won't complain if there is another way found for me to access those recipes but I'm not going to ask for one to be created either. I will continue to enjoy playing. There are plenty of other powersets to try and of course Kheldians once i get to 50.
See you in Paragon.
[ QUOTE ]
* Some of the sets (the rarer ones), have parts of them that are only attainable by completing a Story Arc.
Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs? Here's a nice reward that carries with it some good inherent value.
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Dr. I dont mind this, AS LONG AS our old and outdated contacts (especially for us 20-50's)allow us to go back and complete the story arcs/missions.
Even if we autoexemp like in TF's, im ok with that, Im sure its not as easy as it sounds to make this happen, but you allow this to happen post i9 but before i10, i think this will be a non issue.
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Dr. I dont mind this, AS LONG AS our old and outdated contacts (especially for us 20-50's)allow us to go back and complete the story arcs/missions.
Even if we autoexemp like in TF's, im ok with that, Im sure its not as easy as it sounds to make this happen, but you allow this to happen post i9 but before i10, i think this will be a non issue.
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Unfortunately this solution is the one that they've said simply won't happen. It was known as the "flashback" system. It is no longer a viable solution.
Okay, I've managed to skim the whole thread, and can now comment.
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I am listening to your ideas, but a Flashback system is simply not something we can implement in a timeframe you would all be happy with.
Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.
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KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHNN!!
How on earth can the very people who need to add new content to the game not understand how badly a Flashback system is needed?!? You could skip new content for a year to add Flashback and it's release would STILL give more content options to a large number of characters than all the new content you would have added in that year could have. And as time goes on, that dynamic only gets worse. This is just about the only MMO I've seen that actively punishes characters for gaining levels. Insanity!
[Deep breaths. Find the happy place.]
Okay. Flashback is out. As EvilGecko has already explained, restricting some recipies to a finite resource is an extremely bad idea; the fact that those recipies are further tied to a narow 5 level bracket is an EXTREMELY BAD idea that must not happen. I think the best suggestion made so far was simply to drop the annoying concept of getting Rare recipies from certain activities and simply make all recipie drops have a small chance for a rare; that would provide the most playstyle freedom while still keeping some of the recipies rarer than others. Since I suspect you would never do that, the backup would be to make the Story Arc pool a combination of subset of the Trial and TF pools. That way you can get all the rare recipies from repeatable content, but Story Arcs will still provide a measureable bonus. It would be nice to also retroactively get the bonus on characters that have done the Arcs, but I'd be willing to forgoe that bonus as long as the system provides a way to get the rares repeatably.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
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Of course, we want to give people a way to get that same "stuff" via different methods if you have already done that arc. This is exactly what the good Doctor refers to in his post. The team is looking at that. We certainly appreciate your input on the subject.
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If that's possible, then that'd be satisfactory. Thanks for listening.
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Something else just occured to me and I haven't seen it mentioned...
It was mentioned by Doc B that rewards from pools B, C and D depend on level, and that the Trial Recipe Pool doesn't exist at "early levels."
What's the state of the Task/Strike Force Recipe Pool at levels 10-15, 30-35, and 40-45? Villains have no Strike Forces in these level ranges, but Heroes do have Task Forces there.
Or did Doc mean that the reward depends on character level, so that a 42 exemping into a 35-40 Strike force can get a 42 Recipe?
[/ QUOTE ]
These are rather good questions.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
I just read the entire thread, all I can say is I think I deserve a rare recipe from pool B for that. 
I would like to add that I'm thankful the dev's are looking into alternate solutions as I was a bit concerned previously.
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I am listening to your ideas, but a Flashback system is simply not something we can implement in a timeframe you would all be happy with.
Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.
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-Make the Statesman TF able to drop these
-Make Hamidon able to drop these
-Make Shard arcs that are infinitely repeatable
I've got no problem with the TF and trial pools - if I really want something, I'll do it again. But yeah, I don't like getting the shaft for already being 50. But you know that already. 
You probably already thought of these ideas, but just in case, thought I'd throw 'em out.
As I'm swamped with work I haven't had the time to read this through and see the evolving thought process (but I will at home) but I did want to add one thing (if not already out there):
I saw and agree with the disdain for Story Arc salvage. What if instead of Pool B coming from Stroy Arcs, it instead came from combiding the draps from the other 3 pools.
This would cause us to still experience Pools A, C and D with great vigor as we must re-complete them for duplicate drops so that they may be combined to form recipies in Pool B, making Pool B an almost meta-game experience.
If this is not feesable, simply create new salvage that drops in all instances and make that craftable into Pool B items.
So in essence you are inventing components with which you will later use to invent a larger goal (Pool B).
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I just read the entire thread, all I can say is I think I deserve a rare recipe from pool B for that.
I would like to add that I'm thankful the dev's are looking into alternate solutions as I was a bit concerned previously.
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This is another good point. While I'm still very concerned about the potential for fixed supplies of Pool B loot, I do appreciate the Devs' willingness to listen to our concerns. I appreciate them mentioning the fact that they are listening to our concerns even more. I know you guys take a lot of abuse (from myself and others) so thanks for keeping up the effort, and keeping the lines of communication open.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
[ QUOTE ]
As for ideas I'm against:
* Story Arc Pool drops for completing Mayhem/Safeguard missions
A large team could easily minimize the number of "filler" missions needed in order to unlock large string of Mayhem/Safeguard missions. Additionally, Safegards take at most ~5 minutes to complete. This would greatly encourage MM/SFG teams over running Story Arcs. I would be against this unless the chance of a Story Arc drop was reduced to make it happy, but uncommon occurance, on finishing the mission for the mission holder.
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How about if it keyed off of also completing a set number of mayhem/safeguard side missions, or only in certain mayhem/safeguard locations, or both?
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Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system,
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The main problem with getting Story Arc rewards is that Story Arcs are a limited commodity in the game, and at various points players find their characters without any Story Arcs to do. 50's are certainly out.
So, make it so that doing a certain number of Newspaper/Radio Missions + Mayhems counts as a Story Arc completion. That way you make the reward renewable, even during the Story Arc drought points and after the characters hit 50 and run out of arcs.
The second problem with the Story Arcs would be if certain recipes are only obtainable during Story Arcs of some appropriate level. No matter what character you play, this ensures that you will reach a point where you no longer have any way of getting Story Arcs of the appropriate level. Every other drop pool is renewable. I can kill more enemies. I can run a taskforce even after I'm out of that level range. But I can't get more level 20 Story Arcs. Hopefully, you haven't implemented this in the design.
Even with the one hour lockdown, it's obvious that hardly anyone is reading the whole thread before responding, or, they're hopelessly confused.
Inventions Forum needs a one day lockdown and for threads to follow Developer's Corners rules of one post per person in between Dev posts.
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