Click Powers, Animation rooting and You
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2007-01-25 11:30 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Another post from the Animation Dept.
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Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesnt root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. Were in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but theyre not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.
Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.
You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now dont. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we dont root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official heads up.
Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. Well get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.
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Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.
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I fixed the error that the animators made.
As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero
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Another post from the Animation Dept.
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Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesnt root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. Were in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but theyre not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.
Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.
You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now dont. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we dont root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official heads up.
Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. Well get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.
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Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.
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I fixed the error that the animators made.
As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.
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Yes, but Twilight Grasp *IS* a PbAoE heal...
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Another post from the Animation Dept.
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Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesnt root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. Were in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but theyre not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.
Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.
You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now dont. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we dont root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official heads up.
Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. Well get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.
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Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.
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I fixed the error that the animators made.
As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.
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Yes, but Twilight Grasp *IS* a PbAoE heal...
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You're too focused on "PBAoE heal", and missing the main point.
TG is an *attack*. It debuffs the enemy. Therefore, it roots - no matter that its secondary effect is a PBAoE heal.
Kam
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Another post from the Animation Dept.
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Hey everyone. The changes to toggle power animations and the standardization of what does and doesnt root you should now be up on live. I just wanted to clear up any confusion about some other changes to click powers that also happened at this time. The only intended changes to rooting were supposed to be for toggle powers at this time. Were in the process of standardizing click powers to follow their own set of rules, but theyre not going to be slightly different than the rules for toggles.
Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. PBAOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.
You may have noticed some click powers that used to root you and now dont. These powers snuck their way into the wrong build (see what happens when we dont root them), and most of these will change back in the next build that makes it to live. Consider this an official heads up.
Again, sorry for the confusion this has caused. Well get it all sorted out shortly and we thank you for your patience and understanding.
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Minor comment from a bot/dark Mastermind. The AOE heal on the dark set still roots.
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I fixed the error that the animators made.
As the poster above me said and as I also did a few posts up, the debuff is the first effect, then the heal. It is an attack and should thus root you.
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Yes, but Twilight Grasp *IS* a PbAoE heal...
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You're too focused on "PBAoE heal", and missing the main point.
TG is an *attack*. It debuffs the enemy. Therefore, it roots - no matter that its secondary effect is a PBAoE heal.
Kam
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I'm not focused on anything. The previous poster said they "updated" the animator's post, adding PbAoE. I'm only pointing out that Twilight Grasp is a PbAoE heal, which doesn't solve the discrepancy.
And although it's highly likely that heals such as Transfusion and Twilight Grasp will indeed root you as they are foe-targeted, this has NOT been explicitly stated, and should not be assumed. Since other healing powers have been made exempt from the rule, you cannot say with 100% certainty that Transfusion and/or Twilight Grasp won't also be made exempt. That is all I've been trying to say.
If you take the animator's post as-is, Transfusion and TG would be exempt from rooting. We assume this is an oversight as we also assume that because they are foe-targeted this would take precedent over it being a heal, and would therefore root.
But this is purely an assumption. Past history and previous comments would lend a high level of credibility to it, but it is still nonetheless an unproven assumption.
All I have asked for is a clarification one way or another as I'd rather not assume anything.
Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."
Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.
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Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."
Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.
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Well alrighty, thanks for the clarification 
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Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."
Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.
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So.. Inertial Reduction... uh.. makes other people without Superjump feel inadequate?
Or is it some exception?
Or can we expect it to get some lovin'?
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Simplest way of thinking of it is "Any power which effects someone other than the caster in any negative way should root the caster during the cast animation."
Of course, that's a rule of thumb -- exceptions can exist.
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So.. Inertial Reduction... uh.. makes other people without Superjump feel inadequate?
Or is it some exception?
Or can we expect it to get some lovin'?
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Well, that's not what _Castle_ was referring to. He was speaking of powers that have a negative effect on others. IR doesn't fall into that category, but Twilight Grasp and Transfusion do.
Nonetheless, I'm with you on this one. IR should definitely and unquestionably be unrooted; included with the PbAoE self+ally+non-debuffing+non-foe-targeted heals as exceptions to the rule.
IR isn't a self buff, it's an self + ally buff...so it would fall under the catogory of powers that root.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
Unless of course it got an exception based upon the fact that it's not a combat power but a travel power, and therefore should be unrooted, much the same way the self+ally heals got an exception.
Any word when/if Kuji-In Sha is going to not root anymore. It is still rooting on test.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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Unless of course it got an exception based upon the fact that it's not a combat power but a travel power, and therefore should be unrooted, much the same way the self+ally heals got an exception.
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Then all PBAO self/ally click buffs would be unrooted...
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
No, it could be an exception. There are already exceptions, there's no rule that says "No more exceptions!"
I can't think of a good reason to keep Inertial Reduction rooted. It's a travel power and it's damn annoying to have to land every time it's about to expire so you don't fall out of the sky.
Well I can see one good reason it could be considered a combat power. It gives you and your team unsupressed movement in a fight.
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I'm not focused on anything. The previous poster said they "updated" the animator's post, adding PbAoE. I'm only pointing out that Twilight Grasp is a PbAoE heal, which doesn't solve the discrepancy.
And although it's highly likely that heals such as Transfusion and Twilight Grasp will indeed root you as they are foe-targeted, this has NOT been explicitly stated, and should not be assumed. Since other healing powers have been made exempt from the rule, you cannot say with 100% certainty that Transfusion and/or Twilight Grasp won't also be made exempt. That is all I've been trying to say.
If you take the animator's post as-is, Transfusion and TG would be exempt from rooting. We assume this is an oversight as we also assume that because they are foe-targeted this would take precedent over it being a heal, and would therefore root.
But this is purely an assumption. Past history and previous comments would lend a high level of credibility to it, but it is still nonetheless an unproven assumption.
All I have asked for is a clarification one way or another as I'd rather not assume anything.
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Fine then. NON-TARGETTED PBAOE HEAL. That more clear? Castle's already provided the verification.
Good Lord, people love to nitpick every bloody little thing...
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero
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No, it could be an exception. There are already exceptions, there's no rule that says "No more exceptions!"
I can't think of a good reason to keep Inertial Reduction rooted. It's a travel power and it's damn annoying to have to land every time it's about to expire so you don't fall out of the sky.
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It's not a travel power, it's a jump height/speed buff. That's an admittingly small, but crucial distinction. I see no reason why IR should be made exempt to rooting and not other click buffs other than you find it a bit inconvenient to use perma.
I think the goal here is to not have many exceptions and instead make sure that there is a set of rules that govern what roots and doesn't root, and make sure everything adopts them.
Who knows though, maybe your plight will be heard.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
Gotta fall in with the group saying IR needs an unroot.
It's a travel power - I'd even accept the loss of the PBAoE part of it, as by the time you have it even on a Defender, everyone should have thier own travel power. However, I dont feel that that's necessary - it is wholy useful for travel, and falling out of the sky bites.
IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.
If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.
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IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.
If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.
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Y'know that's utterly ridiculous. So what is the distinction between a "movement buff" and a travel power? What is Super Jump [hint: a +jump movement buff]? What is Super Speed [hint: a +run movement buff]? How bout flight [hint: a +fly movement buff]?
I just find it odd that Inertial Reduction has the same base +jump as Super Jump, yet some people insist it's not a travel power. If it were meant for combat situations, then why would the buff be so large? Wouldn't a buff akin to Combat Jumping or Hurdle be more appropriate?
And have you ever tried to manuever around a battle after someone used IR? It's almost impossible cause the slightest little hop sends you flying across the room. If anything it's a detriment to battle, not a help. There are very very few situations that IR becomes useful during missions, and it's usually because one or more people need to have some kind of vertical movement (like when baddies hide up in the rafters), but don't (for example, if they have Super Speed).
Fair enough. IR is a travel power, but it's also an AoE Buff.
Read the first post:
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[...]
Right now, our intent is to use these rules for click powers:
1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will.
[...]
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Notice, AoE Buffs are not listed among the unrooted bunch. IR will most likely be in the 4th group. It's still an AoE buff. Even if just for travel, it still temperarily buffs your allies' movement.
You might not use it for your allies, as they might already have travel powers..but that's what it's for. That's what it comes down to. An AoE buff for travel.
It bothers me more that Speed Boost roots you, but hey, it's a buff for other people so I guess that's how it works. Not that big of a deal though since I'm super-speed anyway. The day I can't catch a team mate to put it on them is the day I start using sprint instead.
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IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.
If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.
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Y'know that's utterly ridiculous. So what is the distinction between a "movement buff" and a travel power? What is Super Jump [hint: a +jump movement buff]? What is Super Speed [hint: a +run movement buff]? How bout flight [hint: a +fly movement buff]?
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One's a click, the other is a toggle. One affects allies, the other affects yourself only.
Those are pretty substantial differences.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
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IR is not a travel power. It's a movement buff, and it's an AoE buff, in the same category as AM, RA, and other such buffs. If they root you, there's a pretty good chance IR will, too.
If not, then hey, it's one of those aforementioned exceptions! Awesome.
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Y'know that's utterly ridiculous. So what is the distinction between a "movement buff" and a travel power? What is Super Jump [hint: a +jump movement buff]? What is Super Speed [hint: a +run movement buff]? How bout flight [hint: a +fly movement buff]?
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One's a click, the other is a toggle. One affects allies, the other affects yourself only.
Those are pretty substantial differences.
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So what about Group Fly then? Is it a "travel" power or merely a "movement buff"? And is your answer by virtue of it being a toggle, or being a self+ally buff?
I'm just trying to pin down exactly what your criteria is here. What constitutes in your mind a "travel" power vs. a "movement buff"?
kinda bugs me that Chilling Embrace roots me
That would be because Twilight Grasp is an attack on the enemy - besides having the AoE heal effect, it also debuffs enemy ACC.
Attack trumps AoE heal.
Kam