Statesman Interview Transcript!
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2006-08-18 10:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I see that alot of work went into designing the walls and floors and ceilings of bases, but the rest is not unprecidented. Though SWG is in terrible disaray now, their use of home/building customization was outstanding. All items could be placed on all other items. If you couldn't figure that out, there were fine tuning commands like /move left 3 OR /move up 100 . This allowed great customization where people would use mundane items to build replicas of starships inside their homes or intricate aquariums. You were able to buy many different sized buildings for different ammounts. NPC's could be placed inside that could speak to players and become vendors or heralds. Any item could be placed in any room. You didnt add on a room just to have power and a room just to have worktables.
I think what would have been great is to 'purchase' different mission maps. A small wherehouse or a medium office. A large tunnel perhaps. Then we could furnish and power the bases. These maps have split levels, elevators and great story potential. Think of cleaning out a COT temple and then claiming it as your own.
Until now bases have been cost prohibitive for small groups of 2-3 players. Even with the new additions, bases serve little purpose. The teleporters are useful, but there is little else. When you've built your teleporter, most small groups just sell off the work room and benches. The med lab isn't even useful. Rez with 1/4 health in base or at full in a hospital? Tough choice. The seperate and limited rooms are a problem. There should be prices for various sized rooms that can allow any number of items. The items themselves cost so much. What is a power generator? 250k?
I think we were all expecting the batcave, danger room and hall of justice. What we got was motgage on a personal tram station.
I agree with Netherbeast. start out with like 5 or 6 types of bases, like sewer CoT Arachnos for villains, and Hero Corps for heroes a generic Techo labs base(like Crey) and I dunno....something else like Office.
you can buy a small medium or large plot version giving you a different size.
You can change the walls and stiff like you can now.
SG leader can designate "rooms" using the square system to designate where to place items(so instead of designating a whole room you could set up half for control and halfd for power, or half for pwoer and half for a party room)
You can upgrade the plot, or downgrade, and you recieve all your items back. Add more decoration items.
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Loot is almost always a bad idea.
Skills if done correctly can be a great addition to the game. If i remember correctly the Player Base DID want skills ala the universities, but devs couldnt come up with a "fun" concept.
Crafting, now I am biased because I love crafting. And COX has crafting to a certain extent. Once bases are 100% functional youll see more (yes more, cuz ive seen it already) "i need blank Salvage, willing to pay X influence." its happened already. it will happen more.
SWG was successful to apoint because the game had a community, both ingame and out of game. You could craft or dance and have a great time chatting away. It was something that you could do out of combat without leaving the community.
This issue is a double edged sword. Idont see COX getting massively more subscriptions if they added crafting or loot or skills. BUt I dont think the main Player base wants to continually re-roll a character once theyve hit 50. I know i dont and im an altiholic :P With my 50 i would love to see him craft some magical abilites or learn the arts of Magic (skills) and get a % defense or offense against MAgic Origins's. But that requires balancing and a lot of whining from PLayers who want EVERYTHING everyone else can do.
*shrugs* all i can say is Speak for yourself on what you would like, and not everyone else, because we dont all want the same thing, except make COX last forever 
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I think Players should be able to craft temp powers. IR googles; Jet packs an attack and have vendors to sell them.
Jet Pack last 1 day or what ever that would be cool
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I will always feel that the reason bases in CoX are less beloved then housing in say, UO or SWG (at certain points), is that it is aimed at team ownership rather then personal. The image of design will likely be somebody elses or a lowest common denominator agreement, and unless you run the SG you could be kicked at any time wasting all your prestige contributions (as has happened to my wife three times).
p.s. Any chance of direct confirmation that I8 will have mission sharing hero side?
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Remember: Guns don't kill people; Meerkats kill people.
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I see that alot of work went into designing the walls and floors and ceilings of bases, but the rest is not unprecidented. Though SWG is in terrible disaray now, their use of home/building customization was outstanding. All items could be placed on all other items. If you couldn't figure that out, there were fine tuning commands like /move left 3 OR /move up 100 . This allowed great customization where people would use mundane items to build replicas of starships inside their homes or intricate aquariums. You were able to buy many different sized buildings for different ammounts. NPC's could be placed inside that could speak to players and become vendors or heralds. Any item could be placed in any room. You didnt add on a room just to have power and a room just to have worktables.
I think what would have been great is to 'purchase' different mission maps. A small wherehouse or a medium office. A large tunnel perhaps. Then we could furnish and power the bases. These maps have split levels, elevators and great story potential. Think of cleaning out a COT temple and then claiming it as your own.
Until now bases have been cost prohibitive for small groups of 2-3 players. Even with the new additions, bases serve little purpose. The teleporters are useful, but there is little else. When you've built your teleporter, most small groups just sell off the work room and benches. The med lab isn't even useful. Rez with 1/4 health in base or at full in a hospital? Tough choice. The seperate and limited rooms are a problem. There should be prices for various sized rooms that can allow any number of items. The items themselves cost so much. What is a power generator? 250k?
I think we were all expecting the batcave, danger room and hall of justice. What we got was motgage on a personal tram station.
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Heck UO and DAOC had customization as well but I got more uses out of the house than I ever will out of the SG Base
UO I could hang up dart boards put a forge in etc etc
DAOC forges alchemy tables stuffed animals for looks the options where there thy where useful
Plus I had a bank system to store stuff to.
I was disappointed in the SG bases
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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...
the problem is, the Cities have acknowledged that the core of their base is players who DO NOT WANT that stuff in this game.
Making the game more like WoW is going to cause more cancellations than new subscriptions. The SWG effect, if you will.
[/ QUOTE ]Saying players have "acknowledged they DO NOT WANT that stuff in this game" ....Doesn't make it true.
You go ahead and try to speak for 100 thousand other players and type in CAPS, I'm just giving my opinion what I would like .
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I'm going to give my opinion then. I would just up and quit of loot and crafting went beyond the level it's currently at. Almost everyone I team with feels the same way.
I also find it funny how in almost every interview since CoV came out, the question "Players really want to know about the Redemption/Fall from Grace system" in one form or another. But they always seem to reply with 'Well there's the technology to do it! And there are no boundry or balance issues! But it's not on schedule right now, maybe when the player base wants it enough!" I mean yeah, a Hero who became a Villain at level 20 will miss all the 20-50 hero content. But he will be experience all the 20-50 villain content.. it works both ways..
"Give the players what they want" may make a catchy slogan, but I'd prefer something more tactile like "We solicit feedback from the players." This is starting to get old as an example, but it still fits:
Issue 5 and the beautifully designed Croatoa. When it was first announced, the forums filled with thoughtful explanations of why Croatoa should have been made 30-40 instead of 25-35. The answer coming back was "yeah that's a good point, but it's too late."
Which I'm sure it was. But there's no earthly reason why the level range for that zone couldn't have been communicated to the player base before it's too late. If it is about "giving players what they want," I'd like to see a much more open dialogue. And from a design side, it's much more cost effective to design things the way players would want it the first time than put it out there and have to change it later. (See also: Arena)
And lets not forget the infamous regen video and the missing purple patch. If you respect the players' opinions, that must have been a good moment - the players working with the developers to catch something. Of course, if you don't respect the playerbase and think they're just pets who yap loudly sometimes, that must have been embarrassing.
I'm sure it's the first. But I haven't noticed a huge number of internal test videos coming out since then...
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the problem is, the Cities have acknowledged that the core of their base is players who DO NOT WANT that stuff in this game.
Making the game more like WoW is going to cause more cancellations than new subscriptions. The SWG effect, if you will.
[/ QUOTE ]Saying players have "acknowledged they DO NOT WANT that stuff in this game" ....Doesn't make it true.
You go ahead and try to speak for 100 thousand other players and type in CAPS, I'm just giving my opinion what I would like .
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I'm going to give my opinion then. I would just up and quit of loot and crafting went beyond the level it's currently at. Almost everyone I team with feels the same way.
I also find it funny how in almost every interview since CoV came out, the question "Players really want to know about the Redemption/Fall from Grace system" in one form or another. But they always seem to reply with 'Well there's the technology to do it! And there are no boundry or balance issues! But it's not on schedule right now, maybe when the player base wants it enough!" I mean yeah, a Hero who became a Villain at level 20 will miss all the 20-50 hero content. But he will be experience all the 20-50 villain content.. it works both ways..
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I think the big reason - is the muddled opinion they get.
The devs (so far) don't see a balance issue we've heard of...
But notice how often *every* time heroes going bad or villains going good is brought up; someone cries that it will unbalance things or make one AT on a given side absolete?
"Who'd play a tanker if you can be a brute! Why be a dominator with controllers?!"
Etc...
I feel its stupid; and untrue, but people seem to believe that way, and because of that belief, I think they want to keep the positive vibes flowing rather than doing something that will please some people; and irritate others. I personally want it *desperately*; but that's just what I've seen from comments on the boards that may be holding it up.
There may also be something else too that we don't know about; but thats my take.
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I'm going to give my opinion then. I would just up and quit of loot and crafting went beyond the level it's currently at. Almost everyone I team with feels the same way.
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So, I guess you're going to quit when the Invention system comes out in I9 or 10 then?
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.
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I think the problem is that most players don't have much to do with designing the bases. Supergroup leaders or officers do the designing and get to see all the options. It is possible for people to go onto the test server and make their own base, but do many do that?
Maybe you should re-think allowing players to have personal lairs. That would get all your hard work into a lot more hands.
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It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.
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Yes, they did do a fantastic job with the designs and decorations. RP wise, it's a blast. One or two rooms, a few things, a bar, whatever, it's a blast. PvP wise, I don't know. The IoP trial ahasn't been activated yet, the SG I'm in that wants to do that has someone who's participated in raids doing the design but we won't know how well that works for awhile yet.
It seems like one of the big selling points for having both games was access to bases. Bases for an IoP trial. An IoP trial that still isn't up. I'm not really complaining, just kinda bored waiting. I'm in other SG's that have completely different purposes but that one feels kinda stuck right now.
Anyway, no, the art and stuff is phenomenal, the other stuff is still up in the air. Was there something awhile back about crafting enhancements in the bases? Or was that for the universities?
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Exactly. Why are bases not used much? Because there's so little to do with them. Most of the stuff that truly made bases unique - base raids, IoP trials, SG TFs, etc. - either haven't made it into the game or are in at a very small degree.
Sure, I can design my base, but they've designed the system in a way that such a small percentage of players are going to have any access to that. It's not like every person in a SG can edit the base. That's why I've been suggesting things for personal bases. They designed such a cool way to be able to make bases, but implemented in a way that a tiny fraction is ever going to get to play with it.
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"Statesman: I wouldve thought that bases would have gotten more attention, to be honest."
Even if bases where free and everything thing in it , they would still be boring. Running from one side of the base to the other isn't going to make people stop playing WOW and other MMo's.
Combo's
Loot
Skills
Crafting
This would make COH/COV fun for me and would get players attention IMO.
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it never ceases to amaze me that WoW type fantasy gamers STILL come in here asking to have all those garbage things from their hack n slash games brought in here. The *LACK* of loot, crafting, and skills is what makes CoH such a breath of fresh air compared to that tired old Diablo formula. Please go to WoW if you like that stuff, or break your keyboard, or forget your forum password.
[/ QUOTE ]Nice , I see somone needs to go back under there bridge.
Anyways , My angry little trollet above me mentioned, "The *LACK* of loot, crafting, and skills is what makes CoH such a breath of fresh air "
That might be true for the 5 or 10 people in this game , but some people would like to do more.
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What is this, 2004? I thought we were done with comments like these.
Anyway, in regards to Safeguard missions, I always thought that it would be kind of like cleaning up after a mayhem mission, with civilians trapped under rubble you'd have to destroy, putting out burning buildings, stopping villains who've taken advantage of the chaos to run wild in the streets.
And I really don't want to go over to the Rogue Isles and start blowing stuff up over there. I don't want my hero to become some sort of soldier under the command of Longbow. We've already had enough of that sort of thing in City of Villains (though thankfully those concerns were somewhat reconciled in the patron arcs)
Just thought i'd make a comment on why I think bases arn't as popular as States might have wanted it...
It's not as...personal, as your costume. You don't own your base. Your SG leader/s do/es. Theres a kind of dissconnect between you and it. When I walk into my SG's base, it doesin't feel like it's mine. It's this extra thing.
Now, I do have a suggestion for trying to change that.
Give players there own rooms in an SG base. One they can ajust to their hearts content, ala aparments. Theres a good chance that such a thing would mess up the SG's intended design, dissrupting Raid flow, just being to large, ect. To deal with that I would make it only avalable to Members who earn enough Pre/Salvage to buy a 'Portal' type item.
Like elevators in normal missions, clicking on one sends you to a new area off the normal map. The room would only be able to house non-functioning items. Room size/number of items you could have would be based on Pre earned for the SG.
And of course only the person who MADE the room would have the ablity to edit it and enter it, with some sort of command to alow others to get in. Also the option to restrict who can make these rooms based on Rank would be a good idea.
Summary: Not enough personal investment in SG-bases. Answer? Give players their own personal rooms.
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I think we were all expecting the batcave, danger room and hall of justice. What we got was mortgage on a personal tram station.
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Pretty much ... at least a personal tram would allow for whisking away to more than two locations. Teleporters do not. Ok, I'll concede that there are a few things to like about the base system ... if you're a large, prestige-farming SG. However, there's more to dislike about it though.
I just love how the problem with the bases is because not enough people are participating / missing out on the awesome wonder of the base creation tools. 
It can't possibly have anything to do with an unfair prestige tax, unrealistic lot and functional item pricing, and a lack of a COP/IOP trial after 10 months, now could it?
The big question is - will Posi's changes be enough to encourage the masses to return to their make-believe base instances - or will it be as anti-climatic as the changes to Swift, Fly, and Hover?
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Anyway, in regards to Safeguard missions, I always thought that it would be kind of like cleaning up after a mayhem mission, with civilians trapped under rubble you'd have to destroy, putting out burning buildings, stopping villains who've taken advantage of the chaos to run wild in the streets.
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Ooooo!
That sounds downright nifty!
is there another link to the interview? that page won't load for me
Liberty
My 50s:
Hero: Armor Assassin (scrapper), Cross Dresser (scrapper), Surly Seaman (blaster), Defensive End (Tank), Rad Rhino (Cont)
Villain: Beast Infection (Corr), Sweet Zombie Jesus (MM), Milk Weasel (Stalker), Orgullo (MM), Agent Eris (Crab)
Meh, I don't even go in any of my SG bases, so they aren't even a transit system for me. 
Despite that I sit in SG mode on my 46 tank at all times. Why? Because I have 10 mil inf and can't be bothered to go for the inf badges. >_>
Bases are just to boring, usesless, and (imo) fugly. I don't even think about any of the new gizmos that have been added in i7. I survived this long without empowerment stations, I sure don't need them now. Besides, I hear they don't even really work that well or do that much.
From the interview: Im not too worried about the bounds aspect. I am worried about players mistakenly, or unknowingly, bypassing content.
So, two questions:
Will we be getting flashback then?
If there was genuine concern for players unknowingly missing content, why is the current method of pre-I2 heroes getting Isolator not only involve pvp zones with a near impossibility of casual players acheiving it, but the populace feels was a sadistic joke of "Well, you said you'd do 'anything' so we're having fun making you slave in the most un-player friendly childish way possible!" ??!? 
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I didn't reread the transcript, though I do remember the interview distinctly...but here's my take on bases:
They give players their own property...not exactly new ground for MMP's...however, they do offer an unprecedented level of customization.
Clearly, that customization, as well as the several gameplay benefits that the base provides hasn't been perceived to be worth the cost (i.e. Prestige/time played)...hence, Posi and several others (including myself) have taken a spin at making bases more accessible at an earlier stage.
It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.
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States, "Not worth the cost" to me for a number of reasons.
First I don't give a rats about PvP. If I want PvP I play a FPS. (My 2 cents worth
I know others are excited about PvP and base raids)
Two the base doesn't "do" anything. It just looks pretty... except for the zone teleport beacons which is the only base function I currently care about.
Three a large SG is needed to get a base that is worthwhile... I played with the base editor in CoV Beta... they are great. Lots of fun to mess with... However, only a few people in a SG get to play with the base editor (for obvious reasons). So... What percentage of the CoX population do you think actually gets to mess with the base customization stuff? Have you even thought about that? Part of the reason people don't care about bases is that (WAG) less than 10% of the CoX population ever get to make a base. It is not content that everyone gets to play with.
did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs.
I think that is why people were so psyched about having their own apartment in addition to the SG base. Saying you made things cheaper so that a one person SG can afford a base didn't solve that issue. I believe it was more I want to play with the cool editor thingie and make my own space... than I can't afford this cool stuff if I am a SG of one.
That really needs to be allowing certain few players to generate their own lairs.
Yes... I realize that with the lowering of cost that we can make an Alt... level them to 10... and make our own single toon SG... but... that doesn't work if you have a main character in a SG you enjoy.
Sorry.... bottom line is that SG bases (at least the base editor) while cool... are just not something that most players get to experience.
Think of it this way. The costume creator is one of the wonderful aspects of this game. The base editor is very much like that. People make alts for many reasons, one of the reasons is that it is so much fun to make a new costume. Would this game be as popular if only a few people got to mess with the costume creator?
Draugadan
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
If the devs are serious about not having player apartments and instead having bases fulfill this promise, then they need to implement a way for players to invite thier own alts into their own SG *without* having to have a second party or second account involved.
Until then, many (and quite likely most) players will not have a personal stake in SG base building because they're at risk of losing their place in their SG and any investment they have made.
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It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.
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Ok, the problem I have about the base system is that I don't get to design a base. Designing our base is left to the leaders. Sure I can give input but I don't have complete control. And you're right, the art department did a PHENOMENAL job with the base stuff, but not everyone gets to use it.
So, This is what I'm suggesting: Let each player be able to design their own base, that is seperate from the SG base. Posi said he didn't like the idea of having to shrink down items to fit an apartment, but he wouldn't HAVE to. Here's my suggestions for personal bases:
-they can ONLY have decoration items.
-all decoration items are ABSOLUTELY FREE
-all rooms that you place are ABSOLUTELY FREE
-however, you would start with a smaller plot, say it could fit 3-4 small rooms. Now, you can buy bigger plots for your personal base using influence/infamy
You would access your personal base from the base portals, but perhaps you could make a sub-menu Labeled "Personal Bases" and then when you click on it it gives you the option of entering anyone on your team's personal base. You could also have a tab for SG mates bases as well.
I know this would make a LOT of people happy... especially myself.
I think my biggest problem with bases is that only a few people (leaders) can edit the base. Even then what one leader thinks is a good design might be a crappy one to another leader.
Two ideas that have run around on the forums for awhile now that may fix this are.
1:Player Apartments - Completely seprate from the SG bases. I can still be in my SG and contribute but maybe have my own apartment on the side.
2: SG Base member rooms - While the leaders keep control over the main base, each SG member has a room that they control the design of.
I love bases and would love to design and edit to my heart's content, but if your not a leader then that can't happen and you also have to take into consideration, everyone elses ideas.
Why do we move out of our parents house? Freedom. The freedom to come and go as we please. The free to put the posters and art that we want to have up on the walls. The same mentality that makes most of us leave our parents home is the same mentality that makes us ask for our own space in CoX.
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I also find it funny how in almost every interview since CoV came out, the question "Players really want to know about the Redemption/Fall from Grace system" in one form or another. But they always seem to reply with 'Well there's the technology to do it! And there are no boundry or balance issues! But it's not on schedule right now, maybe when the player base wants it enough!" I mean yeah, a Hero who became a Villain at level 20 will miss all the 20-50 hero content. But he will be experience all the 20-50 villain content.. it works both ways..
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I think the big reason - is the muddled opinion they get.
The devs (so far) don't see a balance issue we've heard of...
But notice how often *every* time heroes going bad or villains going good is brought up; someone cries that it will unbalance things or make one AT on a given side absolete?
"Who'd play a tanker if you can be a brute! Why be a dominator with controllers?!"
Etc...
I feel its stupid; and untrue, but people seem to believe that way, and because of that belief, I think they want to keep the positive vibes flowing rather than doing something that will please some people; and irritate others. I personally want it *desperately*; but that's just what I've seen from comments on the boards that may be holding it up.
There may also be something else too that we don't know about; but thats my take.
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I think another factor that may muddle the whole side-switching thing is the difference between APPs and PPPs. Heroes would need to have PPPs made for them and villains would need APPs.
If they don't make the sets specifically designed with the particular ATs in mind, there WILL be balance issues, so a quick and dirty port between the analogues of the ATs isn't an option. Though I would certainly enjoy taking Primal Forces Mastery on a Dom and having double Power Boost. Or double Conserve Power on a Brute or Stalker, and so on.
It honestly shouldn't be something that would take too terribly long to fix. If the possible redundant powers for a pool were changed to something else, a port could be made pretty easily. But it's just another hurdle in the way.
Of course, if they started with APP-style epic pools for villains to begin with, it wouldn't be much of an issue.
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Im very happy with our new mantra, or our current mantra now moving forward, is Give the player what they want.
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Hmm. And yet, last I heard, no matter how many people ask for them, personal apartments/bases independant of SG bases were still a "no" and blocks are still being put in place for non-combat RP interaction between heroes and villians in spite of objections...
Edit: I'd also like to pitch in on safeguard missioins: Prevnting things from being destroyed, yeah, that'll just be frustrating. I know it isn't easy to make mass destruction heroic, but, face it, causing (not watching, not preventing, -CAUSING-) mass destruction is what makes mayhem missions -fun-! Take that out, and you take out the appeal of them. What's the point without -me- being able to blow stuff up?
Virtue Server
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It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.
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Yes, they did do a fantastic job with the designs and decorations. RP wise, it's a blast. One or two rooms, a few things, a bar, whatever, it's a blast. PvP wise, I don't know. The IoP trial ahasn't been activated yet, the SG I'm in that wants to do that has someone who's participated in raids doing the design but we won't know how well that works for awhile yet.
It seems like one of the big selling points for having both games was access to bases. Bases for an IoP trial. An IoP trial that still isn't up. I'm not really complaining, just kinda bored waiting. I'm in other SG's that have completely different purposes but that one feels kinda stuck right now.
Anyway, no, the art and stuff is phenomenal, the other stuff is still up in the air. Was there something awhile back about crafting enhancements in the bases? Or was that for the universities?