Statesman Interview Transcript!
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2006-08-18 10:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
*heh* i guess i felt like ignoring the tone of their post to use it as a starting point to give my perspective on some of this thread's topics. That said, i agree with you regarding the manners exhibited.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
My take on personal apartments:
Firstly, it can't be a 'room' in a SG base that the one person gets to edit. Issues with raiding, issues with base size. Just not happening. HOWEVER, you could add a new wall-mounted base item that, when clicked, brings up a list of personal rooms in the base, and whether or not that player allows access to his/her room to the general public. Failing that, you can add in an apartment building somewhere on the city maps which does the same thing. Likely, both should be implemented, so people with no SGs can have their own space too. The 'personal space' door in the SG base would just link up to this more universal system.
Now, for how such apartment style rooms would work. Firstly, NOTHING that uses/generates control/energy. That's what SG bases are for. An apartment would only allow decorative items, storage items (smaller and less fancy looking than SG items), and any new 'personal apartment' items that might be introduced, like the costume dresser someone mentioned above, or a display rack with all your badges. As for sizing and stuff for the personal apartment, I suggest having no 'create room' tab, but instead having nothing but a 'plot size', where the entire plot is essentially one giant decorative room, allowing them to split it up into even smaller sub-rooms if they so wish. As everything in the apartment is designed for only one person, all storage items would only be accessible by the player who owns the room.
Thirdly, this system could mesh well with the invention system coming out, and with systems already in place. Personal apartment items could be crafted both at the universities (or wherever the invention system takes place), or at SG worktables, possibly with 'inventions' being craftable at SG worktables too, which would solve a problem of SGs not having any use for keeping worktables around. These recipies would be for things previously mentioned (personal salvage, inspiration, and enhancement storage, costume dresser, etc), and would require much less salvage than a crafted SG base item due to only one person getting any use out of it. You could also give more incentive than accolades to collect badges, as certain badges could reward the player with 'souvenier' items, like a deactivated council Mech Man or clockwork to decorate your apartment with.
Altogether, this implementation of an 'apartment' type system would allow for personal space customization and functionality without making SG bases less important. Personal apartments still wouldn't be able to do anything that SG bases can (multiple-player accessible storage, teleportation, rezzing), but would still provide something useful and fun for the player. It would even give SG bases more value than they had before. You could use the SG worktable instead of walking all the way to a university, or enter your apartment from the base instead of walking to the building in some city-zone. I don't see any negetives from implementing something like this.
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Summary: Not enough personal investment in SG-bases. Answer? Give players their own personal rooms.
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I'm getting into this conversation a little late, but that's bloody brilliant.
i like these ideas. i particularly like the standalone apartment in a building somewhere that can also be accessed from the SG base. It would be even more effective and in-genre to have a portal/link that transports the character to the SG base from the apartment as well.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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i like these ideas. i particularly like the standalone apartment in a building somewhere that can also be accessed from the SG base. It would be even more effective and in-genre to have a portal/link that transports the character to the SG base from the apartment as well.
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That would effectively be the 'base portal' for apartments, is the door on the wall, taking you back to the apartment building or the SG base, whichever you came from. If there would be multiple styles of doors, that'd be cool too, like maybe an open doorway with a portal in it
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"Statesman: I wouldve thought that bases would have gotten more attention, to be honest."
Even if bases where free and everything thing in it , they would still be boring. Running from one side of the base to the other isn't going to make people stop playing WOW and other MMo's.
Combo's
Loot
Skills
Crafting
This would make COH/COV fun for me and would get players attention IMO.
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it never ceases to amaze me that WoW type fantasy gamers STILL come in here asking to have all those garbage things from their hack n slash games brought in here. The *LACK* of loot, crafting, and skills is what makes CoH such a breath of fresh air compared to that tired old Diablo formula. Please go to WoW if you like that stuff, or break your keyboard, or forget your forum password.
[/ QUOTE ]Nice , I see somone needs to go back under there bridge.
Anyways , My angry little trollet above me mentioned, "The *LACK* of loot, crafting, and skills is what makes CoH such a breath of fresh air "
That might be true for the 5 or 10 people in this game , but some people would like to do more.
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this is nothing but flamebait...
don't feed the trolls
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Anyway, in regards to Safeguard missions, I always thought that it would be kind of like cleaning up after a mayhem mission, with civilians trapped under rubble you'd have to destroy, putting out burning buildings, stopping villains who've taken advantage of the chaos to run wild in the streets.
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Ooooo!
That sounds downright nifty!
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yes it does!!! Read this states and Posi!!! Give the players what they want!
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Anyway, in regards to Safeguard missions, I always thought that it would be kind of like cleaning up after a mayhem mission, with civilians trapped under rubble you'd have to destroy, putting out burning buildings, stopping villains who've taken advantage of the chaos to run wild in the streets.
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Ooooo!
That sounds downright nifty!
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yes it does!!! Read this states and Posi!!! Give the players what they want!
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Someone grab this idea and PM to Posi! That would be so freaking cool. Double so if the safeguard mission ended with you entering the bank to thump the villan(s) trying to steal the money.
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Anyway, in regards to Safeguard missions, I always thought that it would be kind of like cleaning up after a mayhem mission, with civilians trapped under rubble you'd have to destroy, putting out burning buildings, stopping villains who've taken advantage of the chaos to run wild in the streets.
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Ooooo!
That sounds downright nifty!
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yes it does!!! Read this states and Posi!!! Give the players what they want!
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Someone grab this idea and PM to Posi! That would be so freaking cool. Double so if the safeguard mission ended with you entering the bank to thump the villan(s) trying to steal the money.
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QFE.
Yeah, crazy, isn't it? The truth hurts about as much as the HO and Burn nerf did.
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"Statesman: I wouldve thought that bases would have gotten more attention, to be honest."
Even if bases where free and everything thing in it , they would still be boring. Running from one side of the base to the other isn't going to make people stop playing WOW and other MMo's.
Combo's
Loot
Skills
Crafting
This would make COH/COV fun for me and would get players attention IMO.
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it never ceases to amaze me that WoW type fantasy gamers STILL come in here asking to have all those garbage things from their hack n slash games brought in here. The *LACK* of loot, crafting, and skills is what makes CoH such a breath of fresh air compared to that tired old Diablo formula. Please go to WoW if you like that stuff, or break your keyboard, or forget your forum password.
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Add me to the list of players who do not wish to see loot in this game.
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I am curious as to why people feel that including more features, such as "loot" and crafting, would somehow detract from the experience that they already are getting.
If these things could be included to where they do not affect the way that you currently play, why would you be so up in arms about it being included for the people who would like those features?
My thoughts/ramblings on what I read in that transcript, and some of what's come up in this thread:
For me the non-event of bases comes down to several factors. Firstly the prohibitive cost (including rent) was discouraging - although the two man SG I had with a friend (who stopped playing, so it's one man now) actually has got a functional PvE base (4 location teleporter, workshop with storage and buff machine and worktable if I had anything to make with it, decorative room, and probably the prestige (if not the space) for a medbay). We had most of that after, I dunno, 3 or 4 months? At this point in time we both have our mains to 40+ (800k or so between us), added our alts (for the bonus) and I got a 2nd char to 40 (another 400k). With the recent bonus, rent is covered for a while, but any further expansion isn't likely to ever happen.
Anyhow, now it's built we come to factor two: although I enjoyed creating and designing the base, I barely ever go in it now. There's just no real reason for me to do so. Sometimes I use the teleporter as a sorta shortcut for crossing multiple zones, but really the ferry system works pretty well there. I use the enhancement storage as an alternative to inf transfer since it doesn't require a third party (and by the time it becomes too many trips to and from the store the alt can probably afford their own - specially as they've not been buying any so far). But other than that, just no real reason to go in. I'm obviously not base raiding with a one man SG, I don't really do the whole RP gathering thing that might prompt inviting people to join me in my lair, and I find the benefit the buff machine gives not to be worth the hassle of travelling and zoning into my base.
Finally there's the one big reason that SG base building is always going to be outside the reach of the masses. The clue is right there in the phrase "SG base building" - it's not a personal base, it's an SG base. So if you want to be in a decent sized SG you're unlikely to be one of the ones with base building rights. So it's basically a case of admiring (or not) a zone someone else has designed.. which is true of every zone or mission in the game, SG or not. The obvious solution to that part has been given many times: personal appartments or personal rooms attached to the SG base.
And that's me done with my take on bases.
Safeguard missions don't sound too appealing to me, but that's based on escort/protect missions in other games where they tend to be the least fun mission type in said game. Protecting stuff is generally harder and more frustrating than destroying stuff. But I'll try to keep an open mind and hopefully be pleasantly surprised when they go in.
For loot and/or crafting.. I am very wary about this, but not 100% opposed. It depends how its done. I could get behind the idea if it is fairly accessible to the relatively casual player - no rifts developing between the haves and have-nots (as a current example: a pickup teaming stalker or dominator that wants some shoes). Stuff like crafting temp powers from salvage, or a chance of boss+ dropping new enhancement types. Those are the kinds of things I could live with and maybe even enjoy. What I do NOT want to see is the kind of loot model used in more traditional mmorpgs - particularly their end games. The ones where most of the loot is barely worth using and the good worthwhile stuff is a 2% chance to drop out of a pool of various other 2% chance items you don't want, placed on a very specific boss who is at the end of an instance that takes a very dedicated (and often large) group of players to complete, such that the game basically becomes spending 5-6 hours each night raiding the same handful of instances over and over for months on end in the hopes the item you want finally drops. And the only reason you're actually doing all this is to make your character better at running those very raids. No sir, no thank you. One of the reasons I like CoH is the very fact it breaks away from a lot of 'traditional' mmorpg conventions.
And finally to finish, I'm with whoever said that the one addition they want more than anything else to the game is side switching. Or, as I said in another thread, just being able to create hero AT villainside and vice versa (I can write any falling/redeeming into their backstory even now, but it won't let me play a heroic brute). The only real hurdle I can see there is APP vs PPP for an AT outside its native side. But I don't think balance would be the big disaster people believe, and I don't really understand the missing content argument.
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I am curious as to why people feel that including more features, such as "loot" and crafting, would somehow detract from the experience that they already are getting.
If these things could be included to where they do not affect the way that you currently play, why would you be so up in arms about it being included for the people who would like those features?
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Some people are blindly obsessed with the notion that if they're added, the instantlybecome "must haves"...
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Well it's more than that. It's whether or not the additions really are "must haves." For example badges, except for the ones that directly result in accolades that improve statistics like max health or stamina, don't do anything special so aren't really must haves. And with the amount of effort needed to get the good accolades, the benefits aren't relatively significant, and many people just never feel they are required to get them all on all of their characters.
There are few must-haves in this game, and those are mostly power pool powers, something everyone can have access to.
I don't object to adding new stuff to the game. I just know there are some who are worried about loot or skills being so important it creates a rift between those who do want them and those who don't. 
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I thought bases would be a lot cooler if there were a couple buildings in the zone that allowed access to them instead of the blue, glowey column. Like, an office complex/apartment building in the zones. As you get the teleport beacons, you can upgrade the building that facades the base.
Eh, I don't know. That column was just kinda a surprise.
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That sums up my feelings nicely. I HATE that blue column.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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I thought bases would be a lot cooler if there were a couple buildings in the zone that allowed access to them instead of the blue, glowey column. Like, an office complex/apartment building in the zones. As you get the teleport beacons, you can upgrade the building that facades the base.
Eh, I don't know. That column was just kinda a surprise.
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That sums up my feelings nicely. I HATE that blue column.
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Yeah, I agree with that as well. I'd really love if you could actually claim a building (or sewer, whatever) to be your base. It'd be great to be able to stake a claim in the game rather than having the blue portal or artificialness.
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Im very happy with our new mantra, or our current mantra now moving forward, is Give the player what they want.
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Okay, in the spirit of this comment this is what I would like with regard to Super Group bases:
1) The ability to sit down.
No reason why this shouldn't be limited to those lovely looking super group tables that were added recently but we really need the ability to sit down properly.
If you want to go for the "Delux" version then add some "improved" chat features like being able to have votes, hidden and public votes.
2) Auto Side-kicked/Exemplar SG Missions.
Give that SG Mission Generator a reason to exist. Please allow it to generate random missions. BUT to separate this content from news paper missions have it so that they auto-sidekick everyone to the same level. That would be a real help to super groups.
3) The ability to invite alts and characters that are off-line.
No explaination required I believe.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Clearly, that customization, as well as the several gameplay benefits that the base provides hasn't been perceived to be worth the cost (i.e. Prestige/time played)...hence, Posi and several others (including myself) have taken a spin at making bases more accessible at an earlier stage.
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Well, a lot of the base customization items are nice to look but players can't interact with very many objects (and to do so becomes The Sims which isn't the point of the game).
However, I'd use the base more if I knew an SG computer was the only way to access hidden zones in the game....
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Clearly, that customization, as well as the several gameplay benefits that the base provides hasn't been perceived to be worth the cost (i.e. Prestige/time played)...hence, Posi and several others (including myself) have taken a spin at making bases more accessible at an earlier stage.
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Well, a lot of the base customization items are nice to look but players can't interact with very many objects (and to do so becomes The Sims which isn't the point of the game).
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Gee, and here I though the "point of the game" was to have fun... I don't see how interactable items makes the game into The Sims, anyway. That statement was just sweepingly closed-minded, really.
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Umm.
Salvage + Workshops and Enhancement Terminals = Loot + Crafting?
Well not = but ~/=.
Of course, you do realize that the reason heroes are not allowed to enter the newly constructed university is because they were hitting on the coeds. 
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Gee, and here I though the "point of the game" was to have fun... I don't see how interactable items makes the game into The Sims, anyway. That statement was just sweepingly closed-minded, really.
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Was it?
Sure, the point of *any* game is to have fun, but each game has its own rules, signature style, method of play and focus. If there was a way to interact with base features a la the Bat Cave and piece together clues found on various missions to open up a new TF, then sure I'm all for that but it'd have to be an interactive walk-up puzzle a la Shivers that can challenge the player on a different level of gameplay and still feel rewarded. Right now, the SG computer and teleporters are the only reason to go into the base, and the SG computer really shouldn't be one-click interactive like just another contact. The new storage units are great functionally speaking but still an absolute no-brainer.
I'm not going down to the base though to watch my heroes make out on the sofa a la The Sims though (fun as that would be to watch).
Plus I'd rather have the Devs work on other priorities than making an interactive chair to sit on. Make it worthwhile to have *a reason* to sit in the chair, then I'm all for it.
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It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.
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First of all, thanks to you and the rest of the team for bases. Despite some of the early inadequacies, bases do just about everything I came into base building expecting. I understand that Cryptic tries very hard to prevent cases of haves and have-nots, so I think bases are a great benefit with regards to that design goal.
Being a player who created his own group, I can tell you that your comment about the majority of players not experiencing the content is spot on. It's the reason I struck out to start my own group with the pending release of Issue 6. After two shakey supergroup experiences, I knew that unless I had a secure foundation, all the gametime I put in might be lost on a group that disintegrated (from a base economic perspective anyways).
Due to the way prestige works, it creates an environment where many players contribute but only a select few get to reap the rewards of a wealth of prestige. Some groups use the method described in this transcript, and twink low level players in exchange for them staying in SG mode. This system, while logically sound, creates less of a friendly tone in groups. It sounds more like a business deal than what you would expect from a comic book super team.
I have to wonder if it would be better to have prestige deducted from a group when a player quit the group. The prestige wouldn't necessarily transfer with the player; it would just cease to exist. If you think about it from a genre perspective, the Fantastic Four would certainly lose some pull with the city if the Thing quit the group. With no drawbacks to sloppy mass recruiting, many groups out there come close to resembling sweat shops. Recruiting people left and right to farm them for prestige should have never been a design goal of bases, but that is unfortunately one of the outcomes of the current design.
I don't however think prestige should be deducted from a group if a player deletes the character. I imagine deleted heroes as going to that big city in the sky, so I don't think any "prestige" would be lost from a group if such a thing happens.
This is all my opinion of course, but I feel there really needs to be a drawback to the slap happy recruiting tactics being used in the game. It can make new players jaded towards the game to see people treated as commodities like this. Adding a sting to the possibility of losing a member could add real credibility to groups. Heck, with such an avenue of prestige loss added to the game, you might even see fit to remove base rent all-together (but that's probably asking too much 
).
All in all I think the base system is wonderful. The only problems I see are the limited content experience to the majority of players, the ceilings in place due to compounded rent, and the overall tone of many groups as a result of how the prestige system works. Perhaps if what I described above was implemented, groups would be more cohesive, more players could experience base building, and the lack of rent would let groups build something they could really be proud of.
A guy can dream anyways.
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Umm.
Salvage + Workshops and Enhancement Terminals = Loot + Crafting?
Well not = but ~/=.
Of course, you do realize that the reason heroes are not allowed to enter the newly constructed university is because they were hitting on the coeds.
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I'm not apologizing.
Moggie's big forum-brother.
"I'm a tech. I tell it how it is. I'm incapable of the sunshine blowing necessary in their field." - BillZBubba
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Things not said in this dialogue were the mention of updating Faultline as Boomtown has been updated
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whuh? As Boomtown has been updated? Does this mean that it'll be Boomtown that gets the facelift in I8 and not Faultline?
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Sorry. I destroyed Paragon City's only 2 forklifts yesterday. I'm afraid the Boomtown restoration will have to wait.
(The stupid jerk grav controllers stole the rest of the forklifts.)
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
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It isn't the popularity of bases so much as the fact that our programming & art team did a phenomenal job of allowing players to generate their own lairs. Maybe not enough players have experienced this content to comment on it, though hopefully Posi's changes will help.
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My characters are in small supergroups. The members of said supergroups have real lives. None of us live online. Thus, for us, bases with any function are essentially unattainable. Now, I'm sure they're great if one is in a supergroup inhabited by lifetime basement-dwellers.
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Way to be totally ignorant and offensive all at once! I've known people who work successful full-time jobs, go clubbing or hanging out with friends every weekend, and managed to -RUN- "uberguilds" in EQ and the like. That takes FAR more work than running an SG "uber" enough to have a fully functional base.
Mind you, I'm not in one of those SGs with a functional base. I'm more into RP than raiding, PVP, and so on. I'd definately like to see things even easier on those who create bases with absolutely no intention of raiding and such.
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