Spoony_Gundam

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Shadow Fall: Can take Resistance and Defense sets.

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Yes, of course, you can slot it's nearly nonexistant defense. You can slot MANY things for IO set bonuses as long as you're willing to gimp the actual power itself.

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Or, y'know, you could slot it for +7.5% Recharge, +7.5% ToHit, and Knockback/up protection (all 3 of these enhancements are found in Defense Sets). But I suppose that would be gimping the actual power itself, eh?

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Since you would have to give up slotting it either for resistance (reducing the power's ability to fulfil one of its primary functions) or endurance reduction (reducing your ability to do anything else while the power is active) to get those benefits... then yes, pretty much.

I mean, you can slot Fortitude with all that stuff as well, but I think your teammates might be expecting you to use it for its intended purpose rather than a vehicle for IO bonuses for yourself.

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I hear there are these wonderful enhancements that give SO level bonuses to two things. HOs or SHOEs or some silly thing. One of them is resist/endurance, leaving you three extra slots of wiggle room for IOs.

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Oh - and I'd love to do a giant mech game. Love it.

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DO IT

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I also find it funny how in almost every interview since CoV came out, the question "Players really want to know about the Redemption/Fall from Grace system" in one form or another. But they always seem to reply with 'Well there's the technology to do it! And there are no boundry or balance issues! But it's not on schedule right now, maybe when the player base wants it enough!" I mean yeah, a Hero who became a Villain at level 20 will miss all the 20-50 hero content. But he will be experience all the 20-50 villain content.. it works both ways..

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I think the big reason - is the muddled opinion they get.

The devs (so far) don't see a balance issue we've heard of...

But notice how often *every* time heroes going bad or villains going good is brought up; someone cries that it will unbalance things or make one AT on a given side absolete?

"Who'd play a tanker if you can be a brute! Why be a dominator with controllers?!"

Etc...

I feel its stupid; and untrue, but people seem to believe that way, and because of that belief, I think they want to keep the positive vibes flowing rather than doing something that will please some people; and irritate others. I personally want it *desperately*; but that's just what I've seen from comments on the boards that may be holding it up.

There may also be something else too that we don't know about; but thats my take.

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I think another factor that may muddle the whole side-switching thing is the difference between APPs and PPPs. Heroes would need to have PPPs made for them and villains would need APPs.

If they don't make the sets specifically designed with the particular ATs in mind, there WILL be balance issues, so a quick and dirty port between the analogues of the ATs isn't an option. Though I would certainly enjoy taking Primal Forces Mastery on a Dom and having double Power Boost. Or double Conserve Power on a Brute or Stalker, and so on.

It honestly shouldn't be something that would take too terribly long to fix. If the possible redundant powers for a pool were changed to something else, a port could be made pretty easily. But it's just another hurdle in the way.

Of course, if they started with APP-style epic pools for villains to begin with, it wouldn't be much of an issue.

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With APPs, each AT has a specific APP pool. All the tanks have to choose from the same APPs, all the blasters, etc. Tanks, for example, can choose between 4-5 different APPs, but the powers are more or less similar with minor differences. (some ranged attacks and holds for tanks, for example).

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This...isn't true.

The powers in the tank APPs can be wildly different from each other. Let's compare Energy Mastery to Earth Mastery, for example.

Energy:
Conserve Power (End discount click)
Focused Acuracy (Acc buff toggle)
Laser Beam Eyes (ST energy ranged)
Energy Torrent (Cone energy/smashing attack + knockback)

Earth:
Stone Prison (ST immob)
Salt Crystals (AoE sleep)
Fossilize (ST hold)
Stalagmites (AoE disorient)

How are these anywhere near similar?

On the other hand, let's compare Soul Mastery with Mu Mastery. Though it won't matter in the long run because all of them are exactly the same for Brutes except for animation, damage type, and cones sometimes being exchanged for AoEs.

Soul:
Gloom (ST dark ranged)
Soul Tentacles (Cone immob)
Dark Obliteration (AoE dark attack)
Summon Widow (Pet)

Mu:
Mu Lightning (ST energy ranged)
Electrifying Fences (AoE immob)
Ball Lightning (AoE energy attack)
Summon Striker (Pet)

Does this not seem wrong to you? Even if you ignore the complaints about being locked into the choice, even if you ignore the complaints about the PPPs not fitting the character concepts, there are still legitimate concerns. Frankly, the sets themselves seem half-[censored] compared to what the heroes get.

In the end, my characters will actually benefit from these pools, since they kind of have what I would have wanted for them anyway, but I can still see how flawed they are in both design and execution.

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First of all, nothing has been revealed about the storylines yet

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You have completed the trial set before you by your Patron. You have survived a battle against Ghost Widow's true enemies, Black Scorpion's own creator, Sirocco's dangerous djin, or Mako's high-ranking nemesis. You have even come face-to-face with your own fate as you confronted the very heart of Arachnos itself.

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That doesn't sound like nothing to me.

Either way, I don't like the implication that villains aren't good enough by themselves and are required to draw power from someone else to reach their full potential. It doesn't help matters any when many regard their full potential to be significantly less than what heroes are capable of reaching by themselves.

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It's really not uncommon for villains to get empowered or enhanced by other villains in comics, though, especially villains of the footsoldier variety. The Grizzly gets his suit worked on by the Tinkerer. The Wrecker's crowbar was upgraded by Loki. Baron Mordo calls on Dormammu for extra power. It's pretty standard comic stuff.

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But it doesn't apply JUST to villains, as this game's making it out to be. Heroes are just as likely to be trained or enhanced by other heroes. As it stands now, based on the information given, villains must rely on others to reach their full potential while heroes can reach new levels of power by themselves. It's insulting, and I take it personally when someone tells me I'm not good enough by myself.

In comic-reality, each method of attaining more power is equally as valid, and it's simply unfair to restrict one side to only one way. Even in CoH, if one was inclined to do so, someone could make up a story about being taught their APP powers by someone else. VILLAINS ARE STUCK WITH THIS STORY.

I'm not even an RPer, and it bothers me. We need APPs. PPPs are fine and all, but it's a shortsighted and often undesireable option.

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Seeing or Trying Out the Powers of Each Patron

This is for:

1. If you want to see if the powers of the patron 'fits' with your character concept (would my villain really carry a mace?).

2. If you want to try out all the powers and test them (especially to see what will make you uber in PvP).

Then do this:

1. On a Live Server, bring your toon up to level 49 without any of the Patron powers (don't do their arcs). Make sure you do the level 44 respec or save a free respec if it comes.

2. Copy your toon to Test four times. With each copy, run through each of the arcs.

3. On Test, respec each of your four toons into taking all the powers of your Patron. (Yes, I'm assuming that you can respec powers in the powerset, even though you can't change which Patron Powerset you have... just like AT powersets.)

4. Now that you know how your toon would be with each of the four Patron Powersets and without, decide which one you want.

5. If you choose no Patron Powerset for your main toon, do nothing. If you choose one of the Patron Powersets, then run your toon on live through that Patron's arc and then respec into those powers.

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This doesn't take into account the very high probability that either the powers themselves or the game mechanics will change in the future. Someone will inevitably be stuck with a less desireable pool (Whether it is made worse, or another is made better.) and will be unable to change it. This is bad. It's also clear that the devs don't want us to make an uninformed decision and suffer the consequences, because of their inclusion of the hard numbers. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee at all that these numbers will always be what they say at any given time, and a decision based on dated information is just as harmful as one based on no information. If you weren't locked into place and were free to change your mind with the game's changes, there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem.

It also bears mentioning that Positron's reasoning to include hard numbers,
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There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one.

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could also be applied to the primary and secondary powersets very, very easily. You can't respec out of them. They're far more of an influence on the game than PPPs. Why is it fine for someone to make an uninformed decision about those? Especially since you don't actually see everything in the sets until 38? (Though it would likely take longer and involve several respecs. Not many people take all of their primary and secondary sets.)

"Evil backstabber" doesn't cut it all the time. For a villain to even THINK about stealing or being taught powers by another would be an admittance of his own weakness. He's not good enough to handle the job by himself, so he needs someone else to lighten the load.

The problem I have here is that you HAVE to rely on someone else's power in order to reach the level that heroes are capable of through their own efforts. It's insuling, it isn't an aspect of villains any more than it is an aspect of heroes, and it cheapens the game experience.

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So, the only solution I can see is to have a second option available: a way to progress through a completely neutral story-arc/TF that grants epic powers but no NPC master for those of us more concerned with concept and story (our own concepts and stories, I should add).

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DO THIS. Have the standard CoH APPS unlocked from doing a different arc. Hell, you could even add Patron Powers to CoH at some point to balance the two games.