Each set is designed to bring you up to close to the ED limit. Though I note that _Castle_ stated that min/maxing required a mix of HO's and IO's.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
It's the overall bonuses to your character.
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It seems to me that Full IO Sets are lacking power. That is to say that there is very little advantage to use a full set in some cases than to just use part of a set.
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Not true at all. I figure at level 50, for example, the Luck of the Gambler Defense Set is going to give me:
+7.5% Overall Recharge, +57.08% Defense Buff, +67.5% End Reduction, +67.5 Recharge
Plus set bonuses to Regen, HP, ToHit, Res (Hold) and Res (Psi)
Compare that to slotting it three DefBuff, two EndRed, one Rech, where you'd have 56% Def, 66% EndRed, and 33% Rech.
I'll take the Luck of the Gambler set, plzkthx.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Emphasis on Full. What I mean by this is that the progression of bonus is very linear.
For example with Luck of the Gambler, using all of the IOs except the End\Rech will get you +7.5% Overall Recharge, +57.08% Defense Buff, +45% End Reduction, +45% Recharge plus set bonuses to Regen, HP, ToHit, Res (Hold) and use the +7.5% to hit from the Kismet IO Set or move the other slot to use a full set in another power.
My point is the gain from the Final IO of the set does not feel as empowering as getting a full set from a Diablo 2 set. At least on paper.
I dont know about Diablo 2. We dont have the numbers on the set bonuses yet, but i know there are some varied numbers. Maybe the bonuses for adding the 6th are bigger number wise than the other bonuses. But even if its not the case....
Two thoughts.
One is just playing 'devil's advocate' for a second. Yea that last slot will only get you some extra end redux and recharge, but it also gets you some psi-resist which is in real short supply so some people might like that.
Also, that is part of the point. While some squishies might put luck of the gambler in a pool power offering a little defense (like combat jumping), many using it will be tanks/scraps. They might not need the Res(Hold) either. Maybe they can 4 slot luck of the gambler and maybe TWO kismet pieces (although they will be topped at lvl 30 and the pieces will be weaker) and get a recovery increase. Or maybe just 4 from luck of the gambler and a hami-O or two. But not having a really extra special bonus means its not as neccessary to compete sets, which means more options are viable. More options, more DIVERSITY, which is what they have been trying to do for some time.
Some of them DO suck though, like the Slow powers one. Most of my Slow powers need 3 recharge reduceers to be viable, and the Slow sets all include 3 or 4 +slow effects and only 1 +rech effect. I don't need +slow effects when I'm hitting someone with 5 different slow powers. What I need are +recharge so that my good powers are up more than once every 10 minutes.
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Some of them DO suck though, like the Slow powers one. Most of my Slow powers need 3 recharge reduceers to be viable, and the Slow sets all include 3 or 4 +slow effects and only 1 +rech effect. I don't need +slow effects when I'm hitting someone with 5 different slow powers. What I need are +recharge so that my good powers are up more than once every 10 minutes.
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Ok, you don't have to use IO's, you can use a combination of IO's and common IO's and some of the set ones.
You can use just a couple or three of the set IO's to get those bonuses (two IO's give you a bonus, three give a bonus plus the bonus for two) or however many you want and use common IO's or S/HO's for the rest of that power. Then use something like Trap of the Hunter in an immob (assuming you have immobs also) and get increased health and acc across the board (assuming you take four of that set).
The possibilities are almost endless.
I think you just made my point. There is only a relatively marginal increase for using the FULL 6 part set vs only 5 of the IOs. The fact is I can use 5 parts and anything else and have a great setup but that defeats the point of using a FULL set. Again, the key word is FULL.
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I think you just made my point. There is only a relatively marginal increase for using the FULL 6 part set vs only 5 of the IOs. The fact is I can use 5 parts and anything else and have a great setup but that defeats the point of using a FULL set. Again, the key word is FULL.
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If you're a completist, I guess... Or if you prefer the bonuses for a full set plus the procs.
There's a lot of ways this looks like it can go and be useful.
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I think you just made my point. There is only a relatively marginal increase for using the FULL 6 part set vs only 5 of the IOs. The fact is I can use 5 parts and anything else and have a great setup but that defeats the point of using a FULL set. Again, the key word is FULL.
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It all depends on the set bonuses. I'm very interested to see what that Res (Psi) bonus will be, because I can see it being worthwhile to stick three complete Luck of the Gambler sets in my Energy/Energy brute's three defense toggles (Kinetic Shield, Power Shield, and Energy Cloak). Right now I have those three powers all five-slotted (3 DefBuff and 2 EndRed) and I am sure I could find three slots to take from other powers to make this work.
But again, whether it's worth it or not depends entirely on what that Res (Psi) bonus is.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Some of them DO suck though, like the Slow powers one. Most of my Slow powers need 3 recharge reduceers to be viable, and the Slow sets all include 3 or 4 +slow effects and only 1 +rech effect. I don't need +slow effects when I'm hitting someone with 5 different slow powers. What I need are +recharge so that my good powers are up more than once every 10 minutes.
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Bear in mind that some of these issues will be addressed during the testing period. Perhaps not the exact issues you mention above, and perhaps the extent of changes may not be what you hope for, but there will be changes before any of this goes to a live server.
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Each set is designed to bring you up to close to the ED limit. Though I note that _Castle_ stated that min/maxing required a mix of HO's and IO's.
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After looking at the stuff posted on ParagonWiki, which will no doubt be changing as Castle has stated, I will have to agree with his statement when saying the min/max will want a combination of HOs, IOs and Set IOs.
Not knowing the earlier poster's powers, I'll use an example that I have already looked at. Shiver from Ice Manipulation doesn't need a lot of recharge or end redux. Mainly, it needs Accuracy and Slow. Luckily, there are no HOs that affect Slows, thus making me look at using the Acc/Sow from Pace of the Turtle and Tempered Readiness. If I have the slots available, I'd drop in the End/Rech/Slow from Tempered Readiness for the 2-piece set bonus.
Now, if I were to look at mt Blast powers, I have been using HOs to remove slots from them to be placed elsewhere. It will be hard for me to pull slots from elsewhere to put back into these powers. From looking at it though, some of the bonuses would be very good for my Blaster. So, while I haven't really sat and looked at the numbers, some of the set bonuses could turn out to be pretty good, and make me lessen slots from other powers.
There are, obviously, questions that cannot be answered yet. Can Ranged Damage be slotted into Chilblain? Can Slows be slotted into Blasts? Can the Travel Enhancements be placed into Swift, Sprint and Hurdle? (wow that was some hot wasabi) Do the Special Options require other Set IOs before they can be placed?
I think until Inventions actually hit Test, we cannot know the answers to these questions. It could be those bonuses are actually worth slotting for. It will make for some much more unique characters out there, that is for sure.
Cyclone Jack
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[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
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Some of them DO suck though, like the Slow powers one. Most of my Slow powers need 3 recharge reduceers to be viable, and the Slow sets all include 3 or 4 +slow effects and only 1 +rech effect. I don't need +slow effects when I'm hitting someone with 5 different slow powers. What I need are +recharge so that my good powers are up more than once every 10 minutes.
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Bear in mind that some of these issues will be addressed during the testing period. Perhaps not the exact issues you mention above, and perhaps the extent of changes may not be what you hope for, but there will be changes before any of this goes to a live server.
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Hey _Castle_,
I know this may be premature, but looking on the IO enhancement info in Paragon.wiki I noticed there are no IO's for debuffs. Is this just due to incomplete data, or is this the case? Also, staying with the slow theme all of the examples (Curtail Speed, Impeded Swiftness, Pacing of the Turtle, Tempered Readiness ) have a damage component. Does this mean I will be able to slot a damage IO into Neurotoxic Breath?
Poison Pill
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Bear in mind that some of these issues will be addressed during the testing period. Perhaps not the exact issues you mention above, and perhaps the extent of changes may not be what you hope for, but there will be changes before any of this goes to a live server.
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Happy dance!
Also, ya'll are listening... *happy dance more*
Thanks for posting about that. Yeah, sometimes we get a little frothy but we don't have as much info as you guys do. So, we speculate.
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Bear in mind that some of these issues will be addressed during the testing period. Perhaps not the exact issues you mention above, and perhaps the extent of changes may not be what you hope for, but there will be changes before any of this goes to a live server.
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Happy dance!
Also, ya'll are listening... *happy dance more*
Thanks for posting about that. Yeah, sometimes we get a little frothy but we don't have as much info as you guys do. So, we speculate.
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Also of note, it may just be a gameplay decision. I usually slot recharge reduction, but I've experimented with a few builds that didn't. The holds weren't available for every mob encountered, but the few that were used were much more effective. Some people seem to think that you need your whole arsenal available for every encounter, but maybe having three heavier hitters to rotate for every third encounter will work too.
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Some of them DO suck though, like the Slow powers one. Most of my Slow powers need 3 recharge reduceers to be viable, and the Slow sets all include 3 or 4 +slow effects and only 1 +rech effect. I don't need +slow effects when I'm hitting someone with 5 different slow powers. What I need are +recharge so that my good powers are up more than once every 10 minutes.
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Bear in mind that some of these issues will be addressed during the testing period. Perhaps not the exact issues you mention above, and perhaps the extent of changes may not be what you hope for, but there will be changes before any of this goes to a live server.
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Hey Castle, I have a different Slow problem. My best Slow power (Chilling Embrace) can't use most of the enhancements listed. Now I'll happily take the Process that gives a chance to -Recharge, but almost all the others have Acc or Dam or Recharge on them that don't do diddly for a pure Slow Aura.
Can't win 'em all, eh?
Any plans to add enhancers for buff/Debuff powers? My Rad/Rad is feeling a little abandoned in all the fun!
Overall I think this inventions stuff will be a lot of fun, and I expect to see some of my characters less than optimally buffed to get some thematically appropriate sets, too!
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Any plans to add enhancers for buff/Debuff powers? My Rad/Rad is feeling a little abandoned in all the fun!
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Try looking at Empathy or Kinetics and decide what Powers you can put IO Sets in. Especially if you want a full set of 6 for the last bonus effect.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
Are you allowed to equip the same sets in different powers or can you only have one of that set in any power on your character. If so will the group bonuses stack?
Also I noticed that there are no sets for enhancing disorients...
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Any plans to add enhancers for buff/Debuff powers? My Rad/Rad is feeling a little abandoned in all the fun!
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Try looking at Empathy or Kinetics and decide what Powers you can put IO Sets in. Especially if you want a full set of 6 for the last bonus effect.
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Heal Other
Healing Aura
Absorb Pain
Fortitude
Regeneration Aura
Adrenalin Boost
Is this a trick question?
Abe - so far it sounds like the only restriction is that a given IO of a given Set can only be slotted once per power, so you could have several Ageis IO sets for example.
However, Set bonuses cap out at 5 - but different sets have different levels of bonuses to the effects, so if you have five 1% hp and five 1.20% hp bonuses, that is a total of 11%
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Any plans to add enhancers for buff/Debuff powers? My Rad/Rad is feeling a little abandoned in all the fun!
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Try looking at Empathy or Kinetics and decide what Powers you can put IO Sets in. Especially if you want a full set of 6 for the last bonus effect.
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Heal Other
Healing Aura
Absorb Pain
Fortitude
Regeneration Aura
Adrenalin Boost
Is this a trick question?
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Heal, Heal, Heal (not alot of variety). No Endurance Buff Sets listed yet. So no RA set, and Adrenalin boost limited to Heal Sets. (Again.) As to Fortitude, this is a power not everyone wants to put 6 slots in.
Empathy is basically limited (based on current info) to Heal sets and one power to slot a Defense set in, if you want to 6 slot Fortitude. (My post was about putting a full set of 6 in a power).
The choices currently listed are worse for Kinetcis. You can 6-slot Transfusion with a Heal set, without an accuracy Enhancement. 6-slot Siphon Speed with a Slow set. Or 6-slot Icrease Density with a Resistance Set. How many people have those two powers 6-slotted now?
Some of the other Defender Primaries are a little better when it comes to choices as to what powers to put a Set of 6 IO's in. (Force Field. Radiation, Sonic Resonance)
And Three have many choices when it comes to powers to put a set of 6 in. (Dark Miasma, Storm Summoning and Trick Arrow). Characters with these Powersets will have a much easier time when it comes to putting a set of 6 IO's in a power. Many already have powers 6-slotted, and there is a set that fairly closely matches how they have used those slots.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
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Empathy is basically limited (based on current info) to Heal sets and one power to slot a Defense set in, if you want to 6 slot Fortitude. (My post was about putting a full set of 6 in a power).
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Your original thesis was that Empathy didn't have many powers that could be effectively six-slotted with IOs, so I listed two-thirds of the set which can. Now you've moved the goalposts to "Empathy can't slot different types of IO sets".
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And Three have many choices when it comes to powers to put a set of 6 in. (Dark Miasma, Storm Summoning and Trick Arrow). Characters with these Powersets will have a much easier time when it comes to putting a set of 6 IO's in a power. Many already have powers 6-slotted, and there is a set that fairly closely matches how they have used those slots.
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Yeahbutwha? Dark Miasma:
Twilight Grasp - Needs two accuracy, can only slot up to 4 of a healing set.
Darkest Night - Nothing
Tar Patch - Nothing
Shadowfall - 6 slot resistance IOs
Howling Twilight - Can slot with +Regen/+Recovery IOs, not usually six-slotted. And if we count Howling Twilight, we have to count Ressurect--seven powers for Empathy.
Fearsome Stare - Does no damage, cannot fully benefit from a six IO set. EDIT: Not that I do this, but many people slot Fersome Stare as a tohit debuff power rather than a control, but this usage of the power is not supported by IOs.
Petrifying Gaze - Needs significant recharge slotting to be useful, which IO sets do not provide; does no damage and cannot fully benefit from a six IO set.
Black Hole - Nothing
Dark Servant - Controls, Heals and Debuffs, none of which can be enhanced by IOs (pet sets only); cannot be slotted for damage but all of the pet IO sets are designed to enhance pet damage.
In short, there is *no* power in Dark Miasma that will not be made worse by slotting it with a six-piece IO set. Fearsome Stare can work if you mix two sets together to avoid the useless damage enhancements.
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Empathy is basically limited (based on current info) to Heal sets and one power to slot a Defense set in, if you want to 6 slot Fortitude. (My post was about putting a full set of 6 in a power).
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Your original thesis was that Empathy didn't have many powers that could be effectively six-slotted with IOs, so I listed two-thirds of the set which can. Now you've moved the goalposts to "Empathy can't slot different types of IO sets".
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And Three have many choices when it comes to powers to put a set of 6 in. (Dark Miasma, Storm Summoning and Trick Arrow). Characters with these Powersets will have a much easier time when it comes to putting a set of 6 IO's in a power. Many already have powers 6-slotted, and there is a set that fairly closely matches how they have used those slots.
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Yeahbutwha? Dark Miasma:
Twilight Grasp - Needs two accuracy, can only slot up to 4 of a healing set.
Darkest Night - Nothing
Tar Patch - Nothing
Shadowfall - 6 slot resistance IOs
Howling Twilight - Can slot with +Regen/+Recovery IOs, not usually six-slotted. And if we count Howling Twilight, we have to count Ressurect--seven powers for Empathy.
Fearsome Stare - Does no damage, cannot fully benefit from a six IO set. EDIT: Not that I do this, but many people slot Fersome Stare as a tohit debuff power rather than a control, but this usage of the power is not supported by IOs.
Petrifying Gaze - Needs significant recharge slotting to be useful, which IO sets do not provide; does no damage and cannot fully benefit from a six IO set.
Black Hole - Nothing
Dark Servant - Controls, Heals and Debuffs, none of which can be enhanced by IOs (pet sets only); cannot be slotted for damage but all of the pet IO sets are designed to enhance pet damage.
In short, there is *no* power in Dark Miasma that will not be made worse by slotting it with a six-piece IO set. Fearsome Stare can work if you mix two sets together to avoid the useless damage enhancements.
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Tar Patch: Takes Slow Enhancements, Putting a set of 6 in wouldn't be optimal slotting, but you should be able to put 6 in.
(There has been debate on how powers that actually summon "pets" would work)
Twilight Grasp: Can put 6 in, no accuracy enhancements, but this can be offset using Tactics and accuracy set bonuses from other IO sets.
Darkest Night: No DeBuff Sets
Howling Twilight: +Regen/+Recovery? Now you're showing you don't know how this power works. It can't be slotted for either. It can be slotted for Stun or Disorient (both have IO Sets). It benefits from Endurance Reduction and Recharge Enhancements, and will actually benefit a little from damage enhancements. It may also be possible to slot Howling Twilight with Ranged AoE sets. Lots of possabilities with this power. And it can be used in combat as a DeBuff without a dead ally . I may indeed 6-slot it on my Dark/Dark Defender once inventions go live.
Shadow Fall: Can take Resistance and Defense sets.
Fearsome Stare: Fear, of course. Yes it deals no damage, but only one fear power does at this point. Can still put 6 in, and all you are doing is wasting the damage component (unless of course you pick a set that allows the power to do damage occassionally)
Petrifying Gaze: Similar to above. The Recharge time is 16 seconds. Not THAT long.
Black Hole: Who Cares?
Dark Hole: Will take some sets (the damage component would be wasted).
That Means Dark Miasma can use Slow, Stun, Fear, Hold, Pet, Defense/Resistace sets (some enhancements will have components that don't effect the power in some cases). You can also 6 slot Twilight grasp with a heal set, and get around the accuracy problem by running Tactics and (Guess what) putting the right Slow/ Defense Sets in the appropriate powers. Putting a set of 6 IO's in most Dark Miasma sets won't make them wrose, at wrost you'll be wasting a slot you could put somewhere else.
As For Empathy:
Heal Other: 4 second recharge time, ALL heal sets are heavy on Recharge Enhancements.
Healing Aura: Good choice to 6 slot
Absorb Pain: Cost almost no Endurance to use, Heal sets also heavy on Endurance Enhancements.
Resurrect: SOL
Clear Mind: Nope
Fortitude: Defense (Actually benefits from Endurance and Recharge Enhancement components)
Recovery Aura: No, Again
Regen. Aura: Heal Set
Adrenalin Boost: Can Slot with Heal set, but miss ability to slot for Endurance Recovery.
That's three powers that make good 6 set candidates.
Two more if you want to Slot Heal Other and Absorb Pain, neither really needs 6.
And Adrenalin Boost if you want to skip Endurance Modifying Enhancements.
And your choices are limited to Heal and Defense Sets.
At this point in time, I would rather have Dark Miasma instead of Empathy if I wanted to put a set of 6 IOs in a power.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
From what the developers have said, IO sets don't care as to what the power allows for normal enhancement slotting - if they did, the snipe sets could be slotted into assassin strike attacks!
The simple fact of the matter is, if the developers don't tag Howling Twilight to take the stun IO sets, it won't be able to take them. And based off of what they are doing with snipes/AS, I am not going to assume that because players use it as a mez, that the developers are going to allow us to slot it with mez IOs!
And for the accuracy of Twilight Grasp?
Defender /= One who Takes Leadership Pool. I have several characters with this or a similar power, and on none will I go and six-slot a healing set as it stands, because I don't want to take leadership to make sure I can heal! (and that would be taking TWO OTHER POWERS to make sure you can use a heal effectively.) The one exception being my Pinball Wizard.
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It seems to me that Full IO Sets are lacking power. That is to say that there is very little advantage to use a full set in some cases than to just use part of a set.