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I bet you if the Devs take away Gauntlet but still leave the Gauntlet icon on...no one would be able to tell that it's gone.
[/ QUOTE ]How do you know it was ever there? 
[/ QUOTE ] I know it's there because when I turn mudpots on, nothing except other tankers can pull aggro off me.
You're aware that aggro auras holding aggro so effectively is a consequence of Gauntlet, correct?
PS: Well, really dumb people with knockback sets can pull aggro off me. But that's not my problem.
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You're aware that aggro auras holding aggro so effectively is a consequence of Gauntlet, correct?
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Not for Invincibility, it isn't.
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No he said up to 10. He also daid the number of critters that take damage...meaning if you miss there's no taunt.
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Yes, for Whirling Mace since its a Melee AoE. Go back and read his post.
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I was only talking about AoEs. I'm pretty sure he's talking about all of them there. Man I'm being so misunderstood today. 
I'm not talking about single target just AoEs. The way he states it is that AoEs taunt what they hit and single taunts 5 if it hits. To me that means if an AoE only hits 2 enemies then the single target was more effective. Which why in the first post I made I asked if there no less than 5 taunted on AoEs. Y'all understand me now?
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I bet you if the Devs take away Gauntlet but still leave the Gauntlet icon on...no one would be able to tell that it's gone.
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Wow. That's just woefully untrue. Tanks got a massive increase when they got punchvoke.
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Well I would never notice it but then again I solo mostly so my "Inherant" power is completely useless. I personally would like a power that had some effect in solo play instead of one that is only "maginally" usueful if i team.
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
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You're aware that aggro auras holding aggro so effectively is a consequence of Gauntlet, correct?
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Not for Invincibility, it isn't.
[/ QUOTE ] _Castle_ said: (earlier in this thread, in fact) [ QUOTE ]
Gauntlet is a generic name for a variety of powers which all include an inherent 'Taunt' effect. The text says "Each time the Tanker attacks, he enrages the target, and those around him, enticing them to attack the Tanker."
So, what is an attack?
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* Any 'Aura' powers you may have, such as Icicles or Invincibility.
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maybe he is saying invincibility doesn't hold aggro well.
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
Works fine for me. I did the Freak respec trial the other day with a four player team, two blasters, a scrapper and myself, SS/Invul. I had no problems getting and keeping aggro. I think I used Taunt maybe three times, for those wave stragglers that like to hang out on the catwalks for some reason. Other than that Punchvoke and Invincibility did the job. We had one death the entire trial. One of the blasters got steamrolled in the final wave I think it was. Not much to be done about that with aggro limit capped at seventeen though.
Maybe if you posted your build we could get an idea of where you are having problems.
"If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?"
- Abraham Lincoln
I consider it to be the best hero inherent of them all. I played before punchvoke and I play after punchvoke and if you ever make me go back, my tanker will go byebye. Tanking without it just isn't any fun.
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Except, unless I'm misreading him, _Castle_ said above that Gauntlet affects our auras as well as our attacks. Unless it only applies to damaging auras, but then Invincibility wouldn't be in that list.
If it is what gives us our taunt auras, then heck yeah I'd miss it.
- Laurentide
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Tankers have allways had taunt effects in their auras and attacks.
However, at some point, an extra effect was added. Which was called Punchvoke. This made it so that when you hit one target, the other targets nearby got taunted too. And it was made possible to slot Taunt in attacks.
Later, other ATs were also given additional game mechanics like this to correct imbalances. (I think the scrapper Critical effect was the first "inherent power" of all) So they went ahead and made it "official" by calling them Inherent Powers and giving them specific names. So punchvoke was re-dubbed Gauntlet.
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Gauntlet is a generic name for a variety of powers which all include an inherent 'Taunt' effect. The text says "Each time the Tanker attacks, he enrages the target, and those around him, enticing them to attack the Tanker."
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Thanks for the description HOWEVER
I think it would be more helpful if we kept Gauntlet as a separate entity rather than lump all the various taunt effects together.
Gauntlet (or by its more correct name Punchvoke 
) being the attack with the AoE Taunt effect.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
It's not the "uberest" Inherent, it is of no use solo, and it isn't yet enough in PvP, but I am amazed to hear people say they don't notice it in PvE. I will never take Taunt--getting a villain's attention that way isn't in my character--and so I rely on Gauntlet completely as a consistent part of everything I do as a teamed Tanker. In fact, it often seems to overachieve--a piddling Taser Dart gets aggro off of a group of high damage dealers and onto me, and that's even without Invincibility thrown into the mix.
A while back I started a thread about my inability to taunt clocks on two different tanks and I was wonderng if (since _Castle_ seems to be here for a bit) this was a bug or working as intended.
My level 16/17 Earth Tank running Mudpot has had even level Cogs and Oscilators move through the pots, and ignore the Taunt and the hit from Scorch to continue on to the back row on several occaisions.
I ran the Positron TF with som SG mates on my 46 Invuln/Axer and again the clocks ignored Taunt and all of my attacks. Other villain groups responded they way I think they should have to both toons. They turned and hit me. I'd almost settle for a clock LOOKING in my direction after I Taunt them.
My first short story (detective fiction) came out in Jan-2012. Other stories and books to follow, I hope. Because of "real writing". COH was a big part of that happening.
I would like to see a resist version of fury for every attack recived and given the bar fills up a bit increasing your restance. Or maybe fill the bar up to activate the restance like a dominator has to fill up the bar for domination.
Gaunlet is a toned down version of a power that all tankers get access to anyway. In this way it feels slapped on with no real 'flare' for superheroics.
And in solo play, big whoop-d-doo, I'm aggroing the guy I just hit. Gee neat.
Drawing aggro is the tanker's main job, yes. But he can do it most effectively by staying alive, not by reinforcing the anger management. What other people suggest for the tanker inherent is spot on, give them a clickable resist/defense ability similar to how domination works.
(While you're at it, fix Vigilance too 
It is also worthless in solo play, or when you and your team are doing well.)
DestineeFable's Guide to an MSTF run (fixed!)
My latest AE madness
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I bet you if the Devs take away Gauntlet but still leave the Gauntlet icon on...no one would be able to tell that it's gone.
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Wow. That's just woefully untrue. Tanks got a massive increase when they got punchvoke.
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In my opinion, Gauntlet suffers from 'Green Number Syndrome'. People can't visibly measure it's effect, so of course that means it is not useful - the same way so many measure the contribution of a "Healer" vs that of the other Support AT's.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
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Gauntlet is a generic name for a variety of powers which all include an inherent 'Taunt' effect. The text says "Each time the Tanker attacks, he enrages the target, and those around him, enticing them to attack the Tanker."
So, what is an attack?
* Any of your Melee Powers which damage a target, and many that simply apply a Status Effect. Single Target attacks are limited to 5 critters effected per attack. PBAoE's such as Whirling Mace are limited to the number of critters that take damage -- in this case, up to 10 critters.
* Any 'Aura' powers you may have, such as Icicles or Invincibility.
Note that there is no distinction between Primary and Secondary powersets, Epic Powersets or Pool Powers? These all have Gauntlet on them, to one extent or another (Pool Powers version is limited to 1 target, and only the direct attacks have it.)
If you are dealing with +3's or higher, it may be worthwhile to slot a Taunt enhancer or two into the powers you are using. They *do* help.
[/ QUOTE ]I am convinced that the inherent taunt of Gauntlet is far weaker then the tanker's primary power Taunt. Unfortunatley, many new tanker's today believe Taunt is a waste and they opt out of taking it.
Many Tankers without taunt will argue that they do just as good without taunt. Experience has proven time and again on teams I've been on that the tanker with taunt is far more sucessful at managing aggro then tankers without taunt.
"The one thing that can stop a full team of MasterMinds dead in its tracks... a doorway!" --Frogfather
My problem with Gauntlet goes something like this:
I recently make a Fire/SS Tank. I did plan to take Taunt, but not until the late 20s, figuring I'd get by with Gauntlet until then.
In order to provide for my defenses (to allow me to survive the aggro I was hoping to get), I only had Jab, Boxing, Haymaker as my attacks. Even when I hit consistently, I noticed that enemies would yo-yo back and forth between me and my teammates (small teams). The Gauntlet-provided taunt duration seemed to be very short, as enemies very quickly turned back to whoever they were attacking.
It got to the point where I was so dissatisfied with it that I ended up changing around my plans and taking Taunt at 16. Now I can actually tank, because it is a reliable power that keeps enemies attacking me for a significant amount of time.
So my questions would be:
1) Is Gauntlet only suitable if you slot Taunt duration in it?
2) If so, why do we have to slot our powers for our inherent, while others don't?
And while I'm at it... if the base duration of Gauntlet/taunt is so short for low-damage powers, what good would taunt enhancements do? Increasing a tiny number by a small percentage still results in a tiny number.
Good gaming!
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I am convinced that the inherent taunt of Gauntlet is far weaker then the tanker's primary power Taunt.
[/ QUOTE ] This is correct. If you use Taunt, the power, on 5 mobs standing in another tanker's aggro aura they'll come to you.
However, no amount of blasting/debuffing from a non-tanker will pull aggro, and that's the value of gauntlet.
Read Circeus' So you want to know about taunt thread for complete info.
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And try to use Guantlet on an AV now and see how long they attack you before your squishy defender gets 1 shotted.
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My squishy defender usually gets one shotted by the AV's AoE, not because I lost agro, and the AV turned and attacked said squishy defender. Damn them for getting in close to give me RA!
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I have tanked a +4 AV using just Gauntlet.
I had Boxing and Stone Fists, and due to Andrenaline Boost and other buffs, was able to cycle those back to back, thus constantly attacking.
The AV never looked away from me. Even if the Gauntlet effect is not strong on a +4 mob, it's strong enough to last to the next 1-2 attacks, and that's all that you need, if you keep attacking constantly, to keep the AV focused on you.
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I bet you if the Devs take away Gauntlet but still leave the Gauntlet icon on...no one would be able to tell that it's gone.
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Wow. That's just woefully untrue. Tanks got a massive increase when they got punchvoke.
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In my opinion, Gauntlet suffers from 'Green Number Syndrome'. People can't visibly measure it's effect, so of course that means it is not useful - the same way so many measure the contribution of a "Healer" vs that of the other Support AT's.
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Exactly.
A Blaster hits a mob next to me for 300 damage. I see that, and immediately hit the mob with Stone Fists, for 60 damage. Now, that mob is aggroed on ME, not on the Blaster.
That's not a "green number" effect, and it's subtle, and if you're not looking for it, you won't notice it. But the Blaster will notice, if you didn't have Gauntlet, and instead had to rely on waiting the next 5 seconds for Taunt to recharge.
Gauntlet isn't a long-lasting Taunt, but if you're attacking constantly (for example, I spam Tremor, Fault, and I have Blazing Aura up), then mobs next to you should be held very strongly. That frees up Taunt or Provoke to grab mobs at a distance, and I find that duality of abilities to be very helpful. I don't want to drag the six mobs next to me over to the squishies in order to pull aggro off them... yet if all I had was Taunt, then if I Taunted the mobs by the squishies... those six next to me would lose aggro and go kill the Rad defender whose debuffs are keeping me alive. Because without Gauntlet, how do I keep those mobs next to me, on me, unless I use Taunt. And then I can't use Taunt to pull that group over by the squishies back to me where it belongs. Etc.
Gauntlet is subtle, but it's certainly strong.
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I was only talking about AoEs. I'm pretty sure he's talking about all of them there. Man I'm being so misunderstood today. I'm not talking about single target just AoEs. The way he states it is that AoEs taunt what they hit and single taunts 5 if it hits. To me that means if an AoE only hits 2 enemies then the single target was more effective. Which why in the first post I made I asked if there no less than 5 taunted on AoEs. Y'all understand me now?
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Sure. But why is this a surprise to you? Prior to the AoE change for single target Tanker Secondaries, attacks that Taunt have always only Taunted what they hit. The change never did anything to affect this.
Wait, then this means the tanker is the only AT that actually had a true inherent from day one, and it just got bumped up a bit with issue 3? (was that issue 3?)!!
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But defenders, (other than storm/) more than any other powerset other than /regen scrappers, are the easiest to build to not suffer from endurance problems.
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Masterminds are the easiest AT for Endurance, in my experience, because I spend an inordinate amount of time in combat ordering the pets around, which doesn't cost any End.
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I can't believe you're talking about inherents, and didn't mention containment. It's the best inherent in CoH. Double damage, all the time? The only catch is that I have to do my job? Yes please.
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QFT, but Containment has one teeny tiny Achilles' Heel not shared by Critical Hits, Defiance, Scourge, AS, Fury, etc: "Doesn't Work Well Against AVs." 
Edit: Also, Controllers paid for Containment in the form of a big nerf to our holds -- hold times were decreased, number of mobs held by AoEs was capped, and hold power recharges were increased.
"Destiny's powerful hand has made the bed of my future, and it's up to me to lie in it. I am destined to be a superhero. To right wrongs, and to pound two-fisted justice into the hearts of evildoers everywhere." -- The Tick
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Lol, alright, let me clarify... I think Gauntlet is more useful for tanks than Defiance is for blasters or Vigilance for defenders. I agree, either Defiance or Vigilance would be magnificent on a tanker. */em drool*
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Or Containment...on an Ice/Ice Tanker...
"Destiny's powerful hand has made the bed of my future, and it's up to me to lie in it. I am destined to be a superhero. To right wrongs, and to pound two-fisted justice into the hearts of evildoers everywhere." -- The Tick
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No he said up to 10. He also daid the number of critters that take damage...meaning if you miss there's no taunt.
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Yes, for Whirling Mace since its a Melee AoE. Go back and read his post.