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Allegedly, there was a patch note that may have had some indication of impact with regard to Aggro rules but I haven't been able to locate it.
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I believe you are looking for this:
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Powers - Critters
* AVs/Heroes and Giant Monsters now ignore threat level damage multipliers for different Archetypes. They are still affected by Taunt as before.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks.
So now I have to ask is: What the hell does that mean besides now I need to use taunt frequently? "Threat Level Damage Multipliers" is not good layman speak. Non-developer translation required. What is the reasoning?
My Going Rogue Trailer
Virtue (blue) - Wes The Mess
Virtue (red) - Jess The Best
@Razoras
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Tenebrous Tentacles and Nightfall are sure ways to get a ton of attention, even with melee characters in the middle of the foes. Only AoE taunts are likely to prevent a reaction.
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Did you mean to make this as hilarious as I find it?
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Heh. No, but I'll take the credit anyway.
Given that my DDD is a female and named Nightfall, the implicatons are extra wrong. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Allegedly, there was a patch note that may have had some indication of impact with regard to Aggro rules but I haven't been able to locate it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe you are looking for this:
[ QUOTE ]
Powers - Critters
* AVs/Heroes and Giant Monsters now ignore threat level damage multipliers for different Archetypes. They are still affected by Taunt as before.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks.
So now I have to ask is: What the hell does that mean besides now I need to use taunt frequently? "Threat Level Damage Multipliers" is not good layman speak. Non-developer translation required. What is the reasoning?
[/ QUOTE ]
"Threat rating" is apparently a scale factor applied by AT and/or mob type to determine how much hostile mobs "hate" a given target. It seems to apply to their innate nature to target you out of a crowd as well as how they reprioritize things when attacked. For example, controller pets have long posessed a high threat rating, meaning foes will choose them over the controller until the controller does something that makes them really, really want to kill him instead. Apparently there is a pecking order among the ATs as well, with Tankers and the offensive ATs marked as "higher threat" than the other "supporting" ones.
When I saw this patch note on test (and thought I understood it) Hami raid PA drops was the very first thing that came to mind. Mitos target the PAs because they have a high threat rating. If Mitos are now ignoring threat rating, they will probably prioritize what appears to be randomly, until attacked. Then they will go after what hurt them most (or possibly most recently), without regard to what other targets happen to be in range.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I am finding that aggro is very odd now in I7 as well. Let me post a non-hamidon experience to illustrate this:
A couple of days ago, my SG had a fake nemesis hunt in Peregrine Island. We had a couple of high level characters killing the fake nemesis, and also had several low-mid level characters with invisibility powers scouting them out. I was playing a level 14 illusion controller. I had superior invisibility on the entire time.
The plan was that I would go and find fake nemesis, and then the tank on our team would come and beat them down. In reality, I found that even though I did not attack, I was fairly often attacked by the minions around the FN as soon as the tank got anywhere near them. It was very odd. So here would be the scenario:
I find a Fake Nemesis.
Tank with invincibility running attacks FN.
Minions around the FN turn and attack me.
This was odd for a couple of reasons. First, the tank should not have been able to lose aggro with an auto-taunting aura up. Second, I was invisible and did not attack. How could the minions even see me? Third, I was outside of melee range and not standing next to the tank. My invis should not have been supressed by anything. Something is very odd here.
[ QUOTE ]
I am finding that aggro is very odd now in I7 as well. Let me post a non-hamidon experience to illustrate this:
A couple of days ago, my SG had a fake nemesis hunt in Peregrine Island. We had a couple of high level characters killing the fake nemesis, and also had several low-mid level characters with invisibility powers scouting them out. I was playing a level 14 illusion controller. I had superior invisibility on the entire time.
The plan was that I would go and find fake nemesis, and then the tank on our team would come and beat them down. In reality, I found that even though I did not attack, I was fairly often attacked by the minions around the FN as soon as the tank got anywhere near them. It was very odd. So here would be the scenario:
I find a Fake Nemesis.
Tank with invincibility running attacks FN.
Minions around the FN turn and attack me.
This was odd for a couple of reasons. First, the tank should not have been able to lose aggro with an auto-taunting aura up. Second, I was invisible and did not attack. How could the minions even see me? Third, I was outside of melee range and not standing next to the tank. My invis should not have been supressed by anything. Something is very odd here.
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This has the ring of an aggro problem from way back which controllers saw with pets (I believe in particular, this happened with Phantom Army) - controller would drop pets from outside enemy aggro range -- enemies turn and attack controller until hit by pets -- lots of controllers died -- ??? -- profit!!!
Not sure about those last two parts, though, to be honest.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
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Apparently there is a pecking order among the ATs as well, with Tankers and the offensive ATs marked as "higher threat" than the other "supporting" ones.
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There's also an order of execution, which was confirmed by _Castle_ in a post regarding the aggro problem with Flash Arrow. Mobs attack whatever generates aggro first, then threat level is determined.
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I remember waaaaaay back a DM/Regen friend took me along while he killed stuff on monster island. I was warned to not shoot because of the aggro I would draw, and naturally had to test it. Took one shot with dark blast after he'd knocked maybe probably around a fourth of its life off, the monster instantly turned and started taking shots at me. Main reason I'm mentioning this is because it seems to be something they've fixed before so they might have records of how they fixed it last time. I have no idea how the whole process works to know if this is true or not though.
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Sounds like what's happening to my Corruptor. On a team with two brutes, mobs will suddenly turn and go after me. I'm a Dark Blast user, so I by no means do massive damage, or even enough to "steal" aggro from the brutes. My attack chain is usually Tentacles > Night Fall > Transfusion, followed by pelting a single target with DB and Gloom. And yet I somehow "steal" the aggro from 2 Super Strength Brutes.
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same thing happens to me on my ice/cold. i run with my friends stone/stone all the time and even after he taunts mobs randomly come after me without even hitting/activating any attack, buff or debuff. i pretty much have to stand around a corner if i dont want to draw any aggro.
So - here it is.
Added to the patch notes:
The Hamidon has been increased in difficulty. It is now capable of using one of its attack powers even when Held, Slept, or Stunned.
Evidently Hammy got a laser beam on it's head a long time ago but just now figured out how to use it.
The Mitos are AVs and are acting according to this patch note:
AVs/Heroes and Giant Monsters now ignore threat level damage multipliers for different Archetypes. They are still affected by Taunt as before.
As for the drops? Bug.
[ QUOTE ]
So - here it is.
Added to the patch notes:
The Hamidon has been increased in difficulty. It is now capable of using one of its attack powers even when Held, Slept, or Stunned.
Evidently Hammy got a laser beam on it's head a long time ago but just now figured out how to use it.
The Mitos are AVs and are acting according to this patch note:
AVs/Heroes and Giant Monsters now ignore threat level damage multipliers for different Archetypes. They are still affected by Taunt as before.
As for the drops? Bug.
[/ QUOTE ]
...
...
...
Frickin' Laser Beam on his head ... [censored]
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Cuppa,
One, I shouldn't even have to ask this, but please flog the snot out of whoever decided this wasn't worthy of a patch note. I'm incredibly, incredibly tired of the community causing patch notes to appear.
Two, whoever decided that making it so we can't tell how we're doiing in the raid needs an atomic wedgie with hot sauce. This does nothing to make the raid "harder". Now we just can't tell if we're actually succeeding or not. Confusion != challenge or fun.
Congratulations to the appropriate parties on making something already widely considered tedious even longer.
Longer != more fun.
Longer != more challenge.
I'm not making a case for it being left the same. I'm pointing out that someone responsible for "challenge control" has their head somewhere dark and stinky.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Okay, maybe I'm a newb or something but can someone explain to me the "hate" thing and pecking order of damage, I read that patch note about it and just didnt get it.
I think we really need a redname to offer an explanation of that one. I've paid close attention to gaming mechanics, and this pecking order stuff is news to me.
My Going Rogue Trailer
Virtue (blue) - Wes The Mess
Virtue (red) - Jess The Best
@Razoras
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, maybe I'm a newb or something but can someone explain to me the "hate" thing and pecking order of damage, I read that patch note about it and just didnt get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
The amount of aggro ("hate") you cause to a mob is determined by the amount of damage you cause, multiplied by your AT modifier.
For heroes
Tankers have the largest aggro multiplier.
Kheldians and Scrappers are close (kheldians might be a little higher)
I think Blasters are third, but since they cause alot of damage, it tends to bring their net aggro up.
controllers and defenders round out the bottom.
For villains
Brutes have the highest aggro multiplier
Not sure about Corruptors, Masterminds, Stalkers and Dominators.... I think Stalkers have the lowest, but because their Assassin Strike causes so much damage at once, they can get alot of aggro.
WEA-VER!!!!!
re: Nowaki's post - good, simple explanation. 
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Two, whoever decided that making it so we can't tell how we're doiing in the raid needs an atomic wedgie with hot sauce. This does nothing to make the raid "harder". Now we just can't tell if we're actually succeeding or not. Confusion != challenge or fun.
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QFT. It's already rough enough to tell whether or not the big guy is held; making it flat impossible to tell *really* needs to be re-examined. Shoot, if all you're worried about is making it so that folks can still be hurt once he's held, make his goo acidic or something (i.e. minor/moderate DoT) - or give him a BIG ol' "HELD" graphic. Something.
Kam
How did you know he was held at all if you where still taking damage? I thought the way you tell if he's held is because he stops attacking 
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How did you know he was held at all if you where still taking damage? I thought the way you tell if he's held is because he stops attacking
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Look for the animation of a hold effect on Hamidon. Tesla Cage is convenient because it's up off the ground, but the stone controller hold is usually visible too.
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How did you know he was held at all if you where still taking damage? I thought the way you tell if he's held is because he stops attacking
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Look for the animation of a hold effect on Hamidon. Tesla Cage is convenient because it's up off the ground, but the stone controller hold is usually visible too.
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That's great if your system will render him.
Making us depend on something the engine cannot reliably support is not acceptable IMO. And my system is way, way, way beyond the recommended specs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Look for the animation of a hold effect on Hamidon. Tesla Cage is convenient because it's up off the ground, but the stone controller hold is usually visible too.
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That's assuming you can even see Hami at all 
Don't even get me started on that aspect of it's design...
It's not an official Issue release until a missing patch note has been confirmed.
Also, trying to add challenge by breaking the rules of the game (attacking while held) is not a good path to walk down.
My outlook on the game's future is a bit more reserved now.
[ QUOTE ]
So - here it is.
Added to the patch notes:
The Hamidon has been increased in difficulty. It is now capable of using one of its attack powers even when Held, Slept, or Stunned.
Evidently Hammy got a laser beam on it's head a long time ago but just now figured out how to use it.
The Mitos are AVs and are acting according to this patch note:
AVs/Heroes and Giant Monsters now ignore threat level damage multipliers for different Archetypes. They are still affected by Taunt as before.
As for the drops? Bug.
[/ QUOTE ]
Will the proposed AV Regen rollback effect Mitos and Hami?
[ QUOTE ]
Cuppa,
One, I shouldn't even have to ask this, but please flog the snot out of whoever decided this wasn't worthy of a patch note. I'm incredibly, incredibly tired of the community causing patch notes to appear.
Two, whoever decided that making it so we can't tell how we're doiing in the raid needs an atomic wedgie with hot sauce. This does nothing to make the raid "harder". Now we just can't tell if we're actually succeeding or not. Confusion != challenge or fun.
Congratulations to the appropriate parties on making something already widely considered tedious even longer.
Longer != more fun.
Longer != more challenge.
I'm not making a case for it being left the same. I'm pointing out that someone responsible for "challenge control" has their head somewhere dark and stinky.
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT
My boys die enough at the raids. Telling me they have to die more without the benefit of an informed choice as to whether to continue with the raid and the debt for payoff sucks. Especially when it's going to take significantly longer - as if 1-2hrs isn't long enough.
Triumph's been having a hard enough time getting enough people into the Hive to start a raid under i6 conditions, when we had massive wipes and almost couldn't take out the giant monsters in order to get to Hami it sucked.
I have to seriously wonder whether either of my servers will have many raids after this, let alone many successful raids... and if they do? I have to wonder whether I'll be there for them.
Definitely not a happy 50(x2).
<-- chick, not dude
@perfectkismet | Arc ID: 191776 When Worlds Collide
47 50s: 6Bl . 3Br . 7Con . 3 Corr . 4Def . 1Dom . 2HET . 1MM . 1PB . 6Sc . 2St . 8Ta . 4VET
Shad0w_Hawk wrote:
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Okay, maybe I'm a newb or something but can someone explain to me the "hate" thing and pecking order of damage, I read that patch note about it and just didnt get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
You weren't the only one. Thanks, Nowaki.
occulo wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
I think we really need a redname to offer an explanation of that one. I've paid close attention to gaming mechanics, and this pecking order stuff is news to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen, brutha.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, maybe I'm a newb or something but can someone explain to me the "hate" thing and pecking order of damage, I read that patch note about it and just didnt get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
The amount of aggro ("hate") you cause to a mob is determined by the amount of damage you cause, multiplied by your AT modifier.
For heroes
Tankers have the largest aggro multiplier.
Kheldians and Scrappers are close (kheldians might be a little higher)
I think Blasters are third, but since they cause alot of damage, it tends to bring their net aggro up.
controllers and defenders round out the bottom.
For villains
Brutes have the highest aggro multiplier
Not sure about Corruptors, Masterminds, Stalkers and Dominators.... I think Stalkers have the lowest, but because their Assassin Strike causes so much damage at once, they can get alot of aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tanks have an inherent power that puts a taunt onto every single attack they use, be it power pool or Secondary. Everything else hero side is based on the amount of damage vs how long since that mob has been taunted by a tank.
Villian side, MM pets actually out agro Brutes. Brutes have a single target taunt effect in their Primary. Powers from Power pools will not taunt a Mob for a Brute. the other 3 AT's are based of amount of damage vs last taunt or attack from a MM pet. ( as a brute shen i am on a team with more than 1 MM, i find it difficult to maintain high fury, and ofter don't have more that 50% unless I take the Alpha from a spawn or AM standing infront of an AV. I use taunt to get as many things to attack me as i can so i can dish out some dmg )
-----------------------------------
So now I'm wondering how exactly do we tell when Hami has been held. so that we don't suddenly find our selfs knee deep in Yellow Mitos.
And why does Hami get Laser Eye Beems and my brute can't. he doesn't even have eyes.
V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA
To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106
[ QUOTE ]
I believe you are looking for this:
[ QUOTE ]
Powers - Critters
* AVs/Heroes and Giant Monsters now ignore threat level damage multipliers for different Archetypes. They are still affected by Taunt as before.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Can someone translate this? What are "threat level damage multipliers" and why is it bad that AV/Hs and GiMons ignore them?
"Destiny's powerful hand has made the bed of my future, and it's up to me to lie in it. I am destined to be a superhero. To right wrongs, and to pound two-fisted justice into the hearts of evildoers everywhere." -- The Tick