Official Thread for Recluses Victory: PvP Zone
By
Adam7,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:15 in Developers' Corner
I think the risk vs reward thing is met by the chance of running into other players.
Black Starbeam - The Reciprocators
Making money, not earning it.
It was fun, thanks the effort put to organising this.
I tried two builds. First, I fought on the villain side as a fire dom, which to be honest sucked something awful. A large part of it was due to villains not teaming very well and no buffs or support was coming from where I was teamed. This is a player-side problem. Then there is a game-side problem. Mez and kill the squishy is modus for blasters, stalkers, tankers, brutes, but...not dominators. In other words, almost everyone in the game has access to a mez and the damage on top of it -- but shouldn't mez be the domain of dominators (and controllers)? I didn't feel I was contributing a lot in the large scale battle going on, although I did smoke and throw random holds around, but anyone and everyone has access to mezzes like I said. Just total focus or whatever and you not only get a mezzed guy but you also get a dead guy, so why even bother with the dominator except use said combo on them if you are on the opposite side (the irony!). Domination built very quickly though, so that was nice. But I could never survive long enough to use it much.
After that, I fought as a sonics defender, which was a lot more fun since the heroes seemed to team better. We had some good fights with the more organised villain teams. Those were pretty tough to fight which does suggest villain problems were player-side. Strangely enough, I still seemed to get teleported a lot even though I was teamed with a FF. The new tp protection code probably worked but since the teleporter isn't penalised he's pretty much free to keep trying until he succeeds. And even if he doesn't manage to kill on tp foe, hey, do it again and again until you get a kill in. I don't think the new solution really solves anything. I guess it makes it harder to tp those with actual defense, but does jack for the people who are most frequently targetted by tp foe except maybe stalkers.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
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No PvE missions in this zone means this event is solely for tinkering with builds from my POV.
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You can leave RV. I know they said you wouldn't be able to, but I ran a couple newspaper missions in St. Martial last night with a Thugs MM...
I think that while RV is an interesting idea and undoubtedly many people will have a ton of fun with it, I'm unlikely to spend much time there now that I've seen how it works.
Much of this is my thing only, not a commentary on the zone. I don't really like large, hectic teams as a rule (in small doses, yes, but regularly, no), and large hectic battles, ditto. So right there is a good reason to mostly not participate, since that's really the only way that RV is going to work, and I'm increasingly convinced that PvP in general should only be done by squishies in teams of 5 or more.
I don't mind dying. I don't even mind debt. I do mind getting routinely killed in 5 seconds because I'm playing a villain squishie, that all my powers seem to be useless against every tank and scrapper out there since they're all resistant to them, and that I spent more time walking to and from the villain base than I did actually fighting. I also really have developed a loathing for TP Foe as a power (though I found that if I wasn't lagging and my framerate wasn't floored, I could SJ away before dying to that... but that's a big if).
Some of the deaths might have not happened if my framerate didn't drop to under 5 in large battles, mind you. But when I'm dead before I even see the person hitting me because I can't move the camera fast enough, well... that's not really fun. So if nothing else, largescale PvP on my machine is also sorta a bad idea.
But the absolute one thing that is a problem I see in the zone itself can be summed up by one sentence:
Manticore hits you for 2000 damage.
One drawback of the internet is how it has trained so many people to think that one day is a long time.
When I was playing, the sides were -very- unbalanced due to the villains having all the new toys to try out at lvl40. 
But, I do have one critique that I think will likely carry over to Live...
The Signature Character boost rubs me the wrong way. As far as elements of a game mechanic, I understand them. They arrive to more or less decimate one or two pillboxes' defenses to give a beleagured side a chance to retake them.
But on the other hand...it also feels like a GM saying "Oh hey, you guys seem to have forgotten your place. In case you don't remember, MY CHARACTER IS BETTER THAN YOURS, HAHAHAHA." It's kinda like, I'm out there enjoying myself, and then the guy in charge comes by to break my nose so I don't forget to remember that I'm nowhere near his level of prestige.
Anyway, mechanics-wise I appreciate the idea, but I wish it wasn't represented quite this way.
I -do- like how smoothly the zone areas changed in appearance! I was surprised to see it not cause my computer to explode. 
Very effective in adding a sense of accomplishment to the goings on.
DJs for The Cape Radio
Makes videos & podcasts about reviewing toys, covering conventions, and more at Vangelus.ca
My experience during the special RV event:
I decided to use the level boost to roll up a character I would never normally play to 40: a gravity/kinetics controller. I have no experience with the powersets or the archetype, so I'm sure I didn't do a good job. That said, I did have fun looking around the zone. I even single handedly conquered a pillbox! After Positron and the Brawler destroyed all the turrets for me. Then Mako came and killed me, which was also fun. I love seeing the signature heroes and villains around.
I logged in early this morning and found the zone empty, so I took over a heavy. They are slow, and I had trouble controlling it, but it's still cool.
Debt: I got a ton of it. I wouldn't want to try this with a level 40 character, or you'll never make it to 50. But after level 50, fun galore.
Mez: As a grav/kin controller, I didn't have any mez protection, but I didn't find it to be a problem. I was instantly killed every time I came within firing range of anyone or anything, even without being mezzed. Next time I might try a tank. A solo squishy is just suicide.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
To share my Time in RV:
PvPing: Yea had a blast with my SS/Dark build had most people feared so i could just beat the crap outa them and leave. I died a few times but that is to be expected.
AV/Heros: Dont like the fact that heros have a buddy to fight with and the villians you have that chance that you might get Mako's Knife in the back (Yea happened a few times returned the knife as well 
)
more on debt later
Last night was my first time ever playing on the test server. I also am someone who typically shuns PvP zones.
Recluse's Victory was a BLAST. I rolled an Illusion/Empathy Controller and put together a team very quickly. While the numbers were even, the battles were fun and very back-and-forth. After awhile, the numbers swung to I would estimate a 5-1 villain-to-hero ratio, so it became very difficult to be a good guy.
I enjoyed the appearence of the signature heroes, the broadcast banter. Most of all, I just liked the fact that there was an "end", a winning side and a losing side, something that I don't get from any of the other PvP zones.
I don't think I personally KO'd more than two villains, while getting killed myself more times than I can remember, but it was all good.
The only thing I'd change is to make the Heavies move just a bit faster.
On an unrealted note, I love the blinking power icons showing when a buff or power is about to expire.
Global name: @k26dp
found two oddites, one of which is definately a bug. One, the team search function doesn't treat each instance of RV as seperate, and with the way the instances fill up, this makes team formation a pain. Two, the stuff a grav warden throws at you remains for a few seconds afterwords and can be shoved around. after the last shove it goes flying off on the horizon, yet others who werent around to see the object form, cant see it
Freakshow Raver: I love your knives. You know, you can use them on me later if ya want.
Knives of Artemis Raver: Right
I had a pretty fun time last night in RV.
I played a Claws/Regen Stalker. Most of the heroes were either Stone Tankers, Broadsword Scrappers, and Storm Defenders/Controllers.
[*]Stone Tankers are really tough to bring down. 
[*]Couldn't AS through a Hurricane. [*]Enjoyed some toe-to-toe matches with Scrappers, but could never really get the upper hand.[*]Managed to capture a neutral turret bunker with only the help of a single Heavy. [*]Definitely preferred the lack of Inspirations (even though I could have used some Insights and Enrages against those Scrappers ).[*]Wouldn't mind seeing half-debt (at least) in a PvP zone (those Wardens are nasty).[*]Would spend much more time in a zone like this if there were more XP/inf/prestige awards.
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Well, hopefully these people are getting reported. And now we have some people saying the hero AT's are easy, and some are having the same problem I am having with the villain AT's. So, the question is why? Is there a inherant weekness that we're mission for each signature hero or villain? And if there is can a red name at least say yes, they all have weaknesses. Though I prefer a good team taking out a Sig instead of a certin weakness.
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There's nothing to report. Statesman has already said that that sort of behavior, in a PvP zone is NOT griefing. It's bull. It's rude. It's childish. It's immature. People who do that and actually enjoy it need to seek professional help because it's honestly scary. All that being said, it's NOT griefing when done in a PvP zone.
NOW... if he did it in a PvE zone he's asking to get banned.
Also the water in the pools are in the atlas park sector is missing, you can hear it pouring, but you cant see it, and it doesnt affect your movement sound
Freakshow Raver: I love your knives. You know, you can use them on me later if ya want.
Knives of Artemis Raver: Right
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When I was playing, the sides were -very- unbalanced due to the villains having all the new toys to try out at lvl40.
But, I do have one critique that I think will likely carry over to Live...
The Signature Character boost rubs me the wrong way. As far as elements of a game mechanic, I understand them. They arrive to more or less decimate one or two pillboxes' defenses to give a beleagured side a chance to retake them.
But on the other hand...it also feels like a GM saying "Oh hey, you guys seem to have forgotten your place. In case you don't remember, MY CHARACTER IS BETTER THAN YOURS, HAHAHAHA." It's kinda like, I'm out there enjoying myself, and then the guy in charge comes by to break my nose so I don't forget to remember that I'm nowhere near his level of prestige.
Anyway, mechanics-wise I appreciate the idea, but I wish it wasn't represented quite this way.
I -do- like how smoothly the zone areas changed in appearance! I was surprised to see it not cause my computer to explode. Very effective in adding a sense of accomplishment to the goings on.
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The signature villains/heroes were some of the funniest moments for me. I can remember more than once where my FF 'troller was flying around in PFF above a pillbox and like every villain would turn their attention towards me, attacking nonstop. What they never realized is half the time I would head to a pillbox because it said that's where the freedom phalanx was headed. So here are all these guys doing everything they can to try to scratch me while in PFF, and suddenly Statesman rips up a chunk of the street and drops them. Yes continue to shoot at me villains, pay no attention to the fact that Positron is salughtering half your team. They may be grey to him but he is probably badge hunting or something.
On more than one toon I wasn't able to delete the new inherent powers from my tray.
Was fighting hero-side and fought Lord Recluse and Black Scorpion at the same time. That's the longest fight I've ever been a part of. Took at least 10 minutes to take them both down.
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Yes continue to shoot at me villains, pay no attention to the fact that Positron is salughtering half your team. They may be grey to him but he is probably badge hunting or something.
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Clever quote ftw!!! nice one.
Frosticus
I don't know if this has been mentioned but the 1 hp hospital trip just slows things down. Its a real annoyance. Can't we have full health or at least half?
Justice is my Home!
Check out Mathematicians gone wonky in The Black Theorem (Arc 3608)!
First off what a great idea i love the special event and the fact that they actually did something like this.
My experience was not what i thought it was going to be. Built a Brute and Dom to test.
Brute SS/Elec hard to tell much about the set at this level because there are no missions and the zone is full of Bosses. Ran into a INV/SS Boss and had him beat when he stopped taking damage without any Unstoppable animation or DP heal. He then beat me into the street. I though cool look at my fury its gettign higher all the time. THen i realised the Debt bar which i am not used to seeing very full was really what i thought was my Fury. My fury the entire time stayed below 50%. Seems like any time I started building fury i would just get killed because the incoming damage to boost fury was always more than i can take. Got owned by states. Took 700 plus each from a Punch and Hand Clap. Now where are the NERFS since when does handclap do damage. 700 damage from Punch (gee wonder why they need to be +4 huh) and thats with all my resistances on including tough. Heard someone else who took 1500 froma KO Blow good thing they were not a Squishie or that would have like sent them to the hospital twice.
My Dom with a little stealth actually lasted longer alive by sure time than and i almost took out a PB solo with my new pet helping. Then ran into a Hero trio and Positron took me out with a 819 point Neutrino bolt.
Leasons learned otehr than to team with friends tonight I will not be going to RV very often. Hoped this would allow me some testing options but real testing is to hard to do. Also just avoid any named hero as they are +4 to you so your damage is squat vs. their huge HPs/recovery and they are +4 to you so their damage is much higher than yours. Now i dont expect to even try to solo them but it takes far to many to fight them AND the PVP players make trying a waste of time.
I did get some kills with both characters but have to say while iI even held Sister Psi my Terrify on a Scrapper i fought only took effect on them well after i was on the ground (seemed liek that was teh case everytime).
its a good thing i put a recharge in Rest as there were many times it was not ready when i got my free TP. Countless deaths even with a Brute and never could get a clean one on one except when it was like a wounded hero running away. Then it was not fair to them so no good test to my capacity.
While i enjoyed the event and the idea plus seeing them actually do it. I do not think RV is for me if all there is to do there is chase around for pill boxes and get insta ganked by Signature characters. Also noted when the villains won the heros fled the kill heros phase so none to be found. Maybe i will try it when i hit 50 and debt is not an issue for my villains.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Boy, can I relate to that. I made a plant/thorn dom to see how it played at 40 (I have a lvl 10 atm). I figured I'd concentrate on my primary powers of debuffing, I wasn't sure I'd be able to get any attacks in. There was a tanker TPing to me, hitting me, and TPing away. Every primary power I tried to use on him was deflected, except sometimes I was able to get an AE on him, carrion creepers I believe it was. I didn't even bother trying to attack because by then I was out of endurance. If I got the AE on him I jumped away to rest at a pillbox.
Now maybe my build wasn't the best for PvP, but if I need to decide on a PvP vs. PvE build then PvP is just pointless to me. I'm not a big fan to begin with, and that certainly didn't change my mind.
Edited: Went back in as a fire/fire brute and had a lot more survivability, as well as having the ability to actually do some damage. I can at least say that was fun. But they should change the name to Scrapper City or something, I swear for every villain there were 4 scrappers. 
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Yes continue to shoot at me villains, pay no attention to the fact that Positron is salughtering half your team. They may be grey to him but he is probably badge hunting or something.
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Clever quote ftw!!! nice one.
Frosticus
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Thanks, I was just imagining Positron and Statesman dropping a scrapper and going "ZOMG!!11one1 I got Forward Observer!!!1"
The tanker taunt and running thing is starting to become very annoying.
From the villian side the only way to live is to role a brute. Everything else seems to die way to fast.
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Thanks, I was just imagining Positron and Statesman dropping a scrapper
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That's not very hero like, to take out your own forces
I have never hated stone tanks as much as I did yesterday...
They'd sit there in their granite, laughing at you and your buddies as they taunted you...
And then their friends...oh, the nightmares...
*twitch, twitch*
I couldn't even hit them enough to make End-draining a viable attack *sob*
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Thanks, I was just imagining Positron and Statesman dropping a scrapper
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That's not very hero like, to take out your own forces
[/ QUOTE ] Maybe that's why Manticore wasn't spawned
Pillars of Virtue - Hope, Justice, Discretion, Courage, Help
Now seeking new volunteers!
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I don't know if this has been mentioned but the 1 hp hospital trip just slows things down. Its a real annoyance. Can't we have full health or at least half?
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/not signed, that delay that annoys you, makes the zone one where tactics matter, past waiting for a regrouping. Right now, you kill someone, and he wont be back for at least a minute or two, allowing you to do something. remove that delay, and local area wins become unlikely.
Freakshow Raver: I love your knives. You know, you can use them on me later if ya want.
Knives of Artemis Raver: Right
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I don't know if this has been mentioned but the 1 hp hospital trip just slows things down. Its a real annoyance. Can't we have full health or at least half?
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QFT
Also, somewhere to buy break frees would make a tremendous difference for some of us. I don't know how many times I was TPed, mezzed, and 2-shotted. Lots of times. It's not fun to continually faceplant. I got off various powers versus the various individuals who did this to me -- I had rolled a dark/psi defender (b/c that's what my main is), not expecting to be great in PVP -- but knockback, fear, and hold attacks NEVER affected anyone I used them on in a desperate attempt not to get mezzed and gacked again.
The only thing that did work was Howling Twilight, on those occasions it was up. I often died anyway because it takes a little while to go off, but at least I messed up my attacker enough that others could finish him off easily.
Now, if I had break frees available -- the "target nearest enemy + break free + announce my attacker in team chat + Howling Twilight" macro would have been born, and I might have had a chance.
Also, why did I end a 2-3 hour session with a bar of debt and about 2 xp? Okay, Ghost Widow killed me with a sidelong glance once, but 90% of the time it was other PCs... PVP + debt + defender = no PVP for me, thank you very much.
Tam Lyn Carter, Ialuine, Propitious Puma, Seraf Berylwing, Snowsprite, Damian Newmoon
Chibi Dark Tam, Mr. MacStabbity, Turlin, Frostsprite
And many many more across all servers.
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I think that debt in a PvP zone should be cut in half, like in missions. My main reason? Griefers.
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I wouldn't have a problem with it, but in that case they may need to cut the xp you get from killing npc's in half too in order to meet the whole "risk vs. reward" thing.
Which they've already thrown out the window by removing 9/10 of the rewards from the Katie Hannon AV's without adjusting the risk.
Just saying.
It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World