Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
You certainly can slot End Mods into the attacks. I'm not sure how effective this would be as a replacement for Stamina though. The attacks do drain End from mobs, but you only get End channeled back to you once in a while.
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Just as an initial observation on the set, and having recently played an EA brute. I have several thoughts.
1) Conserve Power and Power Sink in the same set are redundant.
2) Conserve power with it's 90 sec up ~500 sec recharge isn't to useful except against long fights against single foes.
3) Unless this set has far more resists then fire, it will underperform without a heal.
4) Replace Conserve power with either a Reconstruction clone, Dull Pain power, an AoE foe based heal or add a +regen to one of the other toggels.
With a self heal this set will have recieved compensation for it's status resist holes.
Also how many other defensive sets don't have a heal? Two and they are both defensive, SR and EA. (Stone gets +regen and +hp). While I like the differences between powersets I also think you should ask why the other sets work or don't work and learn from that. But those are just my initial observations I haven't had time to get past lvl 3.
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Just a quick jump in...but I completely agree with this. mainly number 4 - it's EXACTLY what I was thinking personally.
anyways, caarry-on 
*edit: i forgot that this is the elec melee topic*
oh and i agree with #4: if conserve power was recon, that would be perfect. even leave it late and in the same spot would be better than no healing.
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Just as an initial observation on the set, and having recently played an EA brute. I have several thoughts.
1) Conserve Power and Power Sink in the same set are redundant.
2) Conserve power with it's 90 sec up ~500 sec recharge isn't to useful except against long fights against single foes.
3) Unless this set has far more resists then fire, it will underperform without a heal.
4) Replace Conserve power with either a Reconstruction clone, Dull Pain power, an AoE foe based heal or add a +regen to one of the other toggels.
With a self heal this set will have recieved compensation for it's status resist holes.
Also how many other defensive sets don't have a heal? Two and they are both defensive, SR and EA. (Stone gets +regen and +hp). While I like the differences between powersets I also think you should ask why the other sets work or don't work and learn from that. But those are just my initial observations I haven't had time to get past lvl 3.
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Just a quick jump in...but I completely agree with this. mainly number 4 - it's EXACTLY what I was thinking personally.
anyways, caarry-on
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number 4
/Signed
That wouldn't do anything to save the set with a different primary though, unless you went with /dark (which would be fine but has proved to be lackluster in PvP).
end drain is a terrible status effect in PvE
it doesnt do anything until you've drained the foe of all their end, and then they just recharge a little and use another attack
AV's and EB's got a lot more end a few patches ago, and AV's just got harder in i7 (which i hope will be rescinded)
easier and faster to just reduce an enemy's HP than their END
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You may not need Stamina with this build (need to experiment) so that frees up slots to grab Acrobatics.
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Catch 22 here.
Energy Aura can get away with this because it only needs to run 3 toggles to be successful.
You just proposed not taking Stamina and adding two extra toggles. Good luck with that.
You need 3 basic toggles for your damage resistance/mezz protection. If you want to run the damage aura, that makes 4. CJ and Acro? Now you have 6. Tough? 7.
Keep in mind that you still to actually attack and, if you're one of the desparate folks, use Aid Self as well.
No way would anyone be able to funtion running 6-7 toggles without Stamina, especially in PvP.
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Like I said...it needs experimentation. In CoV beta though, I ran a character successfully with plenty of toggles and without stamina (a fiery aura brute). I don't plan on taking Tough. And Acrobatics would definitely have END reducers in it. Combat Jumping? Takes hardly any END to run and you don't need to run it all the time.
Keep in mind if you take Electric Melee there is some END recovery there. How much, I don't know at this point as my electric brute is level 2.
My only hesitations on this set are:
1) No self heal. I think this works okay with a defensive set like Energy Aura, but not necessarily with a resistance set.
2) Conserve Power and Power Sink seem redundant. I feel the same way on Conserve Power being coupled with Energy Drain in the Energy Aura set. If you do take Stamina, you probably won't need Conserve Power. Power Sink is pretty awesome though, even if just for the draining ability. It's also a long road to 35 to get Power Sink.
Some other people above suggested taking Hover and Fly as travel powers. I may just do that. I can't say I've played that way as a melee character before, but it might be interesting.
I also will wonder how many people also taking Electric Melee will skip over powers like Lightning Clap because it does no damage. Disorienting a huge group of MOBs can go a long ways to damage mitigation.
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Hover used to be good for KB protection until ED gutted it's movement speed potential. I used it on my DA Scrapper for a long time.
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Ain't that the truth! I originally tried Hover on my shiva-inspired Fire/Ice Tank. I dropped that quick once I realized how freaking slow it was and my inability to move in combat. Fly is out of the question due to travel power suppression. So, its back to 3 power pool powers for Acrobatics.
IMHO, diversity of choices is a good thing, but leaving holes in an up-front, aggro-drawing archtype like this simply funnels us all to take Acrobatics to fill that hole.
Honestly, getting knocked around can be fun, but as a brute it isn't just cute to be able to be knocked around, it's downright lethal.
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Please remove Conserve Power.
I don't really care what you replace it with (though a +regen toggle like Integration would be cool, and different from just a dull-pain or reconstruction clone) but it so completely does not belong in this set, thematically and otherwise, it's not even funny. 
The game ends at 50.
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I rather liked the idea of replacing it with a Reconstruction clone type power. Fits thematically, isn't as redundant and makes it a bit more original amongst the Brute sets.
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Hover used to be good for KB protection until ED gutted it's movement speed potential. I used it on my DA Scrapper for a long time.
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Ain't that the truth! I originally tried Hover on my shiva-inspired Fire/Ice Tank. I dropped that quick once I realized how freaking slow it was and my inability to move in combat. Fly is out of the question due to travel power suppression. So, its back to 3 power pool powers for Acrobatics.
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Actually, you can still fight while using fly. Hell, I do that sometimes with my DM/Regen Scrapper and I usually don't have any problems. The sepression is only in the speed and usually it's not horrible when you're in melee. Or you can slot hover with 3 fly speed SOs and get a decent speed for combat out of it. I tried that a while back too and it seemed to work out well. But that's just my take on it.
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at least it has immob/KB protection
and its a defensive set, so aid self is easier to use
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I rather liked the idea of replacing it with a Reconstruction clone type power. Fits thematically, isn't as redundant and makes it a bit more original amongst the Brute sets.
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Isn't Healing Flames and Aid Other both pretty much like Reconstruction (a clicky self-heal)? I'm suggesting an Integration-clone-type-power.
The game ends at 50.
SmilegasmDo not ever give Mind Control a pet.
We need more control sets without pets.My characters are not "toons".
They are all project characters, though.Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue
Its not like it couldn't use some improvement, but the overall tone is very like the one regarding EA. And now I don't hear those complaints about EA. It just feels like everyone going its horrible... when the reality is more it perhaps, and thats a perhaps could use some tweaking.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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Please remove Conserve Power.
I don't really care what you replace it with (though a +regen toggle like Integration would be cool, and different from just a dull-pain or reconstruction clone) but it so completely does not belong in this set, thematically and otherwise, it's not even funny.
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Hate to disagree with you, but I do, and at the 110% mark. I like the fact that Conserve power opens up earlier than Power Sink, level 28 if im not mistaken.
In that regards its an important power not only for PvP pre-level 30, but also in PvE for any of the multiple task forces -including the respec trial - with a lvl 30 or 33 level cap.
It's hardly redundant until you get to level 35, and even then it has a plethora of uses that you'd have to be really obtuse to miss in my view. If you make statements asserting that it doesn't fit thematically or otherwise, you need to qualify that statement with something other than dramatization.
In my view it fits thematically perfectly. Many, many machines, robots and other such electrical powered vessels have a power saver mode. It only makes sense that a being harnessing electrical impulses would have the same ability. How does that not fit the theme of ELA?
i'd rather swap the power drain to 28 and get something different at 35
EA has only one hole though in the form of lacking a heal and partially mitigates it by just not getting hit as often. Most players I know take Aid Self or Tough (or both) to plug it and that works fine.
Looking into my crystal ball here since I don't think any of us have managed to get an elec into the 30's yet but I know I'm going to need a heal, no question. I know I'll need Stamina because I've never seen a truly effective brute without it. I know I'll need KB protection because after playing my fire/fire up through the teens by the time I hit 22 I never wanted a power so badly in my life as I wanted acrobatics. Yes I could do hover/fly but I'm still without immob without CJ and with the electric primary I don't have anything to throw before 32.
The issue is not so much that /elec won't be effective, but the pool choices will be very narrow for any of us who are looking to take them into PvP. I love the idea of a +regen being glued into grounded or conserve power being replaced by something that offers a little more utility. Either one of those would change this from just being a novelty set.
YES, a lot of the tone here makes it sound like the sky is falling but I do want to make sure we get a little improvement on this before it goes live and hysteria tends to get attention.
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i'd rather swap the power drain to 28 and get something different at 35
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Granted I would love to have power-sink open up at level 28 as well. But since we apparently get the weaker form of endurance recovery power instead, ill take that.
I also wouldnt mind a self heal in the place of conserve power perhaps, i just don't see how anyone can logically deduce that conserve power doesnt fit because of theme. I think it implicitly does.
Would I trade that for a self heal? Of course I would. What resistance based secondary set doesn't have a self heal?
Apparently this one...
And that is a real shame. I think the set will underperform for that reason alone, if not others. Soaking up two power slots and possibly 6 slots to get an interuptable self heal is rather nonsensical in my mind, and too costly an expenditure in an otherwise already heaviliy constrained build.
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I have been very much looking forward to the "red" electric shields.... I have to agree that the "holes" in the set that are only corrected by power pools is very problematic for Players
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is Red Lightning has a Very "Mu" Theme to it correct.... So I have to take the leaping pool for Acrobatics to keep from being knocked all over the place, But MU"S HOVER & FLY. How was this not thought of when the Set was Designed or Assigned abilities? How?
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Um, ya know, you can take hover and fly too.... And hover negates knockback about as well as acrobatics. You get hit, you do a flip, keep attacking.
I use hover on my fire/fire tanker (42 currently,) and never have problems with knockback. Hrmmmm, two powerpool powers to get travel and knockback protection vs. 3 from leaping.... hrmmmmm. Think I'll stay with hover/fly.
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What do you do when you are immob or do you still use Burn? (Which does get buffed now by BU etc.)
For everyone who is on the anti-leaping pool rant, you can also choose what I am going to...teleportation + hover. Same number of power selections, more mobile and less endurance over all during combat. Coupled with the Lightning Rod, teleportation almost seems purfect for the elec/elec brute. Teleport in, fight, teleport away, aidself, lightning rod back. The way I see it you have the ability to select 6 powers from primary...including 5 attacks and buildup and 6 powers from secondary...including 3 shields, lightning reflexes, endurance drain and godmode. That leaves 8 slots left: 2 aidself 3 (hover + tp foe/recall ally + teleport) 3 stamina. You could switch out a lower damage attack for air superiority. If you get immobilized, you can teleport to the next mob or teleport away if you don't have break frees. Just my 2 cents.
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For everyone who is on the anti-leaping pool rant, you can also choose what I am going to...teleportation + hover. Same number of power selections, more mobile and less endurance over all during combat. Coupled with the Lightning Rod, teleportation almost seems purfect for the elec/elec brute. Teleport in, fight, teleport away, aidself, lightning rod back. The way I see it you have the ability to select 6 powers from primary...including 5 attacks and buildup and 6 powers from secondary...including 3 shields, lightning reflexes, endurance drain and godmode. That leaves 8 slots left: 2 aidself 3 (hover + tp foe/recall ally + teleport) 3 stamina. You could switch out a lower damage attack for air superiority. If you get immobilized, you can teleport to the next mob or teleport away if you don't have break frees. Just my 2 cents.
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True, but you're still thinking in terms of the 40 level cap world. Since the PPPs look a little meh to me, thats 4 more power choices I can take at level 50.
they need a new power similar to dull pain like..
Defibulator - Enter your whole body in a suspended state of shock, causing you to feel numb and far less pain from injury. Your overall hit points are increased. (also a heal like Dull Pain)
i dont mind no heal or kb protection because we cant have /Elec replacing all the other brute secondaries.
but dont make them all maneuverable with slow resists and boost recharge and boost run and then have 2 immobs lock them in place even when running combat jumping.
thats just lame!
add immob resists.
Since test is still down can someone answer this question for me...
Since all the attack powers say that you can regain end when they hit, is it enhanceable with End Mod Enhancements?
That could possibly take the need for Stamina out of the build...