Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
As with the last thread, I could be jumping the gun with my ranting. The numbers on the resists don't look promising so far though. If the end drain turns out to be as good as I hope, then all my ranting is for naught. End Drain is a very powerful tool if used properly, I'm just not very optimistic that they'd give the full potential of this ability to a Brute.
More than anything though, I'm annoyed as all hell at this sets reliance on outside help to cover it's "weaknesses." This set, more than any other I've ever seen, seems to be balanced around power pools. Weak.
I have a lot of experience with resistance based sets and the lack of a heal bothers me. Invul get an HP boost and a heal, DA gets an AoE heal, Fire gets a heal, Stone (which is Def and Resist) gets an HP boost/Heal as well. I just don't see how giving Electric resistance levels equal to these sets can be justified without some sort of health recovery.
You make good points about the perks not being great enough to overcome the imbalances.
You also make good points about having to take pool powers to round out the set and that we shouldn't have to.
I guess I understand where you're coming from, but considering that /Dark already has to take 2 power pools(fitness and leaping), /EA needs Aid Self for maximal effectiveness, stone needs hasten, tp and swift, and all sets have to mandatorily take the fitness power pool anyway.
I think the set won't be for everyone. For people that are willing to invest in it I see an awesome set. For those not, I see a set untouched.
I would like to add that it appears that the set is balanced around power pools because it would be overpowered by a good clip without some holes. I like everythign the set has to offer and to be honest, I wouldn't want any of those perks taken away for KB resist or a heal.
I've wanted to play an Electric melee character since the day I started playing this game. My first character was an Electric/Electric Blaster who I've played as a Blapper since Day One.
I will play this set. I will play the hell out of it. I will give as much feedback as I can, positive and negative. I don't want this set to be good, I want it to be great. What we have right now doesn't seem anywhere near that level, IMO. At least not with what we're given within the set itself. Which is where it should be balanced, not by what power pools can be crammed into it.
My tone so far has been on the negative side, I'll admit, but it's not because I want this set to suck.
I know the Devs will read this thread. I know that they will read some of my comments (I hope!) and posts from those that agree with me and those that don't. That's exactly what we need. That's what the set needs. Some serious debate. I know they think they've created a well-balanced set. I'm no game developer, that's for damn sure, but I know where my fun factor lies... and this set is punching holes in it.
Hopefully these comments will be taken to heart and some serious thought will be given to them. If nothing ever changes, fine, but at least I gave my insight and opinions and can take comfort in the fact that they've been read and considered.
ANyone know if I was correct on my guess for total energy resist? If both charged armor and conductive shield are 40% 3 slotted plus grounded I'm seeing like 88%.
If charged armor has less energy resist or conductive does then 63%.
I'd be happy with 63% as that was what I was hoping for, but 88% would be abit of a bonus considering the holes.
I have been very much looking forward to the "red" electric shields.... I have to agree that the "holes" in the set that are only corrected by power pools is very problematic for Players
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is Red Lightning has a Very "Mu" Theme to it correct.... So I have to take the leaping pool for Acrobatics to keep from being knocked all over the place, But MU"S HOVER & FLY. How was this not thought of when the Set was Designed or Assigned abilities? How?
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I have been very much looking forward to the "red" electric shields.... I have to agree that the "holes" in the set that are only corrected by power pools is very problematic for Players
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is Red Lightning has a Very "Mu" Theme to it correct.... So I have to take the leaping pool for Acrobatics to keep from being knocked all over the place, But MU"S HOVER & FLY. How was this not thought of when the Set was Designed or Assigned abilities? How?
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Um, ya know, you can take hover and fly too.... And hover negates knockback about as well as acrobatics. You get hit, you do a flip, keep attacking.
I use hover on my fire/fire tanker (42 currently,) and never have problems with knockback. Hrmmmm, two powerpool powers to get travel and knockback protection vs. 3 from leaping.... hrmmmmm. Think I'll stay with hover/fly.
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Now I do agree with you on this. City of Jumpers has another permanent member.
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This is my beef with this set. Every single hole with this set can be filled, but at the cost of being stuck with the Leaping Pool.
The lesser holes (low SM, LE mitigation, no self-heal) just draw to heavily from your build to take both. And power sink or no, you're going to have a LOT of toggles to run.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Now I do agree with you on this. City of Jumpers has another permanent member.
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This is my beef with this set. Every single hole with this set can be filled, but at the cost of being stuck with the Leaping Pool.
The lesser holes (low SM, LE mitigation, no self-heal) just draw to heavily from your build to take both. And power sink or no, you're going to have a LOT of toggles to run.
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Not only will you have to run a lot of toggles if you decide to fill up all the holes but you will be fighting with 3-4 attack powers. Perhaps that's why we were given Lighting Reflexes, so Jacobs Ladder can recycle quickly. 
Although I don't mind taking the Leaping pool (since my Dark/Fire is already there with CJ, SJ and Acro) being a brute IMHO is less about really dealing out damage than by keeping your stamina up. Without it, you're toast. So, despite what pple say about not taking or respecing out of the Fitness Pool, I would agree and doubt you will be able to with all those toggles, despite CP or PS.
For myself, I think I will try to emulate my NRG/NRG brute with the Leaping and Fitness pools. As for self heals, I suppose I will be carrying an extra heap of greens.
Holes, yes. Gamebreaking, I don't think so. Will keep playing and judge when I get to a respectable lvl.
add immobilize protection.
too many dam jumpers as it is.
I didn't see it noted on the power, does the damage aura drain end from opponents?
the imm i can mostly handly (seeing that we get a tp type attack, which will bypass imm)
but seriously...NO knockback protection?
have you SERIOUSLY thought about pve into this? cause more than HALF of what we fight used KB, pvp as well for ice types and assault blaster/corruptors
let me make some points...
Circle of Thorns...Ruin Mages plant KB types 90-100% of the time
Devouring Earth, some of their pets (DE dropings) have KB
Longbow, grenaders have KB
i can go on and on about the types, what i'm pointing out is BRUTES need KB protection to do their brutish needs, we shouldn't have to rely on acrobatics, it's WEAK skill ONLY for total KB protection, it's a waste simply put, so DONT make us take something we just can simply have in a defensive toggle (in pvp can drop it, and blappers LOVE to drop toggles so just add it in!!)
in conclusion, i want a brute if it's not gonna have ANY healing power, to not be on it's rear half the time and get killed cause of it, it's on test, can change it, so PLEASE do so!
My take on some of the complaints so far:
Resistance levels: 26.25% base. This is better than the Fiery Aura set which has a 22.5% base. Fire also doesn't have a tier 9 defense power (but they can rez themselves when they die). The fiery aura set has a self heal though, which is certainly missing from Electric Armor.
Status protections: balancing these is difficult. If you give too much to electric it's going to be overpowering. End drain resist isnt' good? Longbow spec ops, carnies and Malta sappers make me say otherwise, and at lower levels you have Clockwork and some other random electricity users here and there. Lack of Knockback resist? You may not need Stamina with this build (need to experiment) so that frees up slots to grab Acrobatics. Otherwise, I'll find a way to get Acrobatics in here. No immobilize protection? Take combat jumping OR just realize that you have a TELEPORT SMASH attack for a reason in the Electric Melee set.
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i would like to encourage those who think the holes are fine to test a build without the leaping, medicine, or fighting pools. i am personally testing a build with just fitness and flight, because those are my two favorite pools.
i understand this will be very frustrating, but i think that's what the test server is for: we need to find out how this set performs WITHOUT a bunch of pool powers covering its holes.
i for one do not much mind the lack of a self-heal. i think if the resists are boosted slightly, we could do fine. i'm especially upset at yet another set being pigeonholed into the leaping pool.
Proud captain of BOSS
The Altruist, Lvl 50 (+3) INVUL/SS Tanker
Omega Centauri, Lvl 50 SS/INVUL Brute
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Um, ya know, you can take hover and fly too.... And hover negates knockback about as well as acrobatics. You get hit, you do a flip, keep attacking.
I use hover on my fire/fire tanker (42 currently,) and never have problems with knockback. Hrmmmm, two powerpool powers to get travel and knockback protection vs. 3 from leaping.... hrmmmmm. Think I'll stay with hover/fly.
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That's about how I feel too. Unfortunately, Hover is rather an underrated power by most of the speed players. I use it on my squishies, my Brutes...heck, I even use it on my /Regen scrapper for the combat maneuverability. *joins you in the Hover is cooler than the Jumping pool* camp.
Oh well. I haven't played the set enough to comment on anything other than that. But it looks REALLY neat in my short bits of playing.
@SithRose and @Sith Rose
Permanent resident of Virtue
"Mommy, I need Cthulhu. He keeps the bad dreams away."
Hover used to be good for KB protection until ED gutted it's movement speed potential. I used it on my DA Scrapper for a long time.
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You may not need Stamina with this build (need to experiment) so that frees up slots to grab Acrobatics.
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Catch 22 here.
Energy Aura can get away with this because it only needs to run 3 toggles to be successful.
You just proposed not taking Stamina and adding two extra toggles. Good luck with that.
You need 3 basic toggles for your damage resistance/mezz protection. If you want to run the damage aura, that makes 4. CJ and Acro? Now you have 6. Tough? 7.
Keep in mind that you still to actually attack and, if you're one of the desparate folks, use Aid Self as well.
No way would anyone be able to funtion running 6-7 toggles without Stamina, especially in PvP.
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Probably 3 powers eaten up by stamina, as I'm not entirely expecting PowerSink + Attacks to be enough to keep end up. ((ED in Energy Aura can replace Stamina fine, but it cycles twice as fast as PS does)).
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QFT
Where are you getting the numbers that ED cycles twice as fast? I have a level 50 Elec/Elec Blaster and a level 40 EM/EA Brute so I have extensive experience with both Power Sink and Energy Drain. As far as I can tell, it is the same power with different animations (the ED animation is slightly longer.) They both have a recharge of 60 seconds unenhanced according to both Hero Planner and my personal experience.
I'm don't have the patience to spec out of Stamina for Power Sink (I'll just take both 
) but unless there's some kind of Brute recharge modifier I'm missing and assuming PS is the same for Brutes as it is for Blasters, it will be as viable a candidate for Stamina-replacement as Energy Drain.
(Sorry for the run-on sentence.)
Chromium Man Model Designations
I - Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, II - Fire/Energy/Fire Tank, III - Elec/Elec/Elec Blaster,
IV - Elec/Elec/Mu Brute, V - Elec/Elec/Mu Stalker, VI -Elec/Elec/Energy Tank, VII - Elec/Elec/Body Scrapper, VIII - Elec/Elec/Mu Dominator
Co-founder of Riders of Apocalypse - Triumph Server
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Probably 3 powers eaten up by stamina, as I'm not entirely expecting PowerSink + Attacks to be enough to keep end up. ((ED in Energy Aura can replace Stamina fine, but it cycles twice as fast as PS does)).
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Where are you getting the numbers that ED cycles twice as fast? I have an level 50 Elec/Elec Blaster and a level 40 EM/EA Brute so I have extensive experience with both Power Sink and Energy Drain. As far as I can tell, it is the same power with different animations (the ED animation is slightly longer.) They both have a recharge of 60 seconds unenhanced according to both Hero Planner and my personal experience.
I'm don't have the patience to spec out of Stamina for Power Sink (I'll just take both ) but unless there's some kind of Brute recharge modifier I'm missing and PS is the same for Brutes as it is for Blasters, it will be as viable a candidate for Stamina-replacement as Energy Drain.
(Sorry for the run-on sentence.)
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The downside with Power Sink is that it comes at 35 and it has to support a lot more toggles than Energy Drain.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I already posted that charged armor and conductive shield is both 26.25%
Well, in addition to the end recover PS gives you, It also almost completely drains your enemies of endurance.
I don't remember the exact numbers on PS end drain, but that combined possibly with Lightning Field, could provide adequate end drain fo rthe Elec/Elec brute.
Mu is cool. Hover is in, 3 leaping is out.
i will miss healing, but i won't cry if they would add immob protect to grounded so i don't have to take combat jumping.
there are holes, but.... (thinking) i guess i could take tp to get around immob, get hover for kb. that still leaves healing.
everyone keeps saying take aid self, but that is bad (or not ideal) for a non def brute, i even think castle said something like that.
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Catch 22 here.
Energy Aura can get away with this because it only needs to run 3 toggles to be successful.
You just proposed not taking Stamina and adding two extra toggles. Good luck with that.
You need 3 basic toggles for your damage resistance/mezz protection. If you want to run the damage aura, that makes 4. CJ and Acro? Now you have 6. Tough? 7.
Keep in mind that you still to actually attack and, if you're one of the desparate folks, use Aid Self as well.
No way would anyone be able to funtion running 6-7 toggles without Stamina, especially in PvP.
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With my /ea stalker I run four in PvE, and five in PvP PLUS flight as my travel power. Out of the list you named, you can always toggle your damage aura off and on, and I dont know if you need tough if you have aid self (like I also do on my stalker).
I have two slots in all my toggles. And if I really want I can take conserve power, but with two end mod and one recharge and hasten (/elec brutes could stack hasten with their other +recharge power to bring up power sink even quicker) I dont have problems in PvE or PvP.
Just as an initial observation on the set, and having recently played an EA brute. I have several thoughts.
1) Conserve Power and Power Sink in the same set are redundant.
2) Conserve power with it's 90 sec up ~500 sec recharge isn't to useful except against long fights against single foes.
3) Unless this set has far more resists then fire, it will underperform without a heal.
4) Replace Conserve power with either a Reconstruction clone, Dull Pain power, an AoE foe based heal or add a +regen to one of the other toggels.
With a self heal this set will have recieved compensation for it's status resist holes.
Also how many other defensive sets don't have a heal? Two and they are both defensive, SR and EA. (Stone gets +regen and +hp). While I like the differences between powersets I also think you should ask why the other sets work or don't work and learn from that. But those are just my initial observations I haven't had time to get past lvl 3.
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Mu is cool. Hover is in, 3 leaping is out.
there are holes, but.... (thinking) i guess i could take tp to get around immob, get hover for kb. that still leaves healing.
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Thats prettu much my plan at the moment. TP has always been my favorite travel power anyways. Hover will then work as anti-kb and general assistance to TP (which I have not had to use on other characters) for extended "flight" during ports.
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All of that would be well and good if end drain and -recovery were actually something worth fearing in PvE. Outside of Carnies and Longbow Spec-Ops (which are easily displaced by one Dominator), it's virtually non-existant. Knockback and Immob on the other hand...
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Mu's are devils at end drain too. And I always feal -recharge vs bosses, large mobs, AVs.
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Yay for diversity, eh? [censored]
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Now I do agree with you on this. City of Jumpers has another permanent member.
Another thing that I noticed...you can get incredible energy resistance. From what Ive played, energy is fairly common in CoV...not as common as s/l, but near the same as fire and more then cold. PvP, blappers of course.
I can see the set not being for everyone, sure. And there is no way I would do without combat jumping, and most likely acro too. But the heal...with the end drain powers, you can skip the blues and double-stock on greens. If power sink works like energy drain in the /ea line (where with two end mod SOs I can almost fill my bar from two minions), then I think thats a very powerful addition to /elec.
I think a lot of people will respec out of stamina around lvl 35ish. There's your aid self right there.