Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
I thought the Jacobs Ladder animation was underwhelming.
It looked like my brute was waving sparklers at the enemy.
It needs more electricity animation and sound. It's a high damage attack and it's the least imposing looking attack in the set.
Centinull
So is test up right now? If not how come?
I didn't read through the whole thread, but I figured I'd post about the sounds. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but the melee powers don't seem to have any kick to them. Just the electric sounds, but no hit noises like other melee attacks. They just feel a bit weak.
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I thought the Jacobs Ladder animation was underwhelming.
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I don't mind the animation, but it certainly isn't very "Jacob's Ladder"-ish. More like "Static Burst." I'd rather the animation start with the character holding two fists together out in front of him and then pull them apart with a large arc of electricity jumping from hand to hand that then flashes outward. Yanno - like the arc at the top of a Jacob's Ladder.
And I don't know what the guy who couldn't take out a Lieutenant and a Minion was doing. I was going around fighting yellows and oranges trying to passively catch the Hosportal back to base and didn't die once. The closest I've come was during the Burke mission where you bug the 'copters. The Lieutenant in that mission was a pain for some reason (not least of which because he kept knocking me down).
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
How is Elec Melee, producing for Fury? is the cone affect, similiar to Shadow Maul or Flurry, where only first punch counts Fury Meter, rest of the punches/animation doesnt, thus it actually causes your fury bar to drop?
JJ
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There aren't multiple punches or anything in the animation. It's just a burst of electricity. It's very difficult to even get it to hit multiple opponents, and it just does damage once to each opponent it hits. As with other Brute AoEs it only builds Fury off of one target - and since it only hits once it only builds that Fury off of the one hit.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I lost ALL interest in this set by level 2. It uses the superstrength animations for your first two attacks.
Words cannot capture how much I loath those animations. I was expecting something fast, like on that Korean release video. It's bad enough the set not a mixture of kicks and punches, but body blows and overhand clubs make it just laughable visually.
If power customization ends up meaning we can choose different animations, I'll try it then.
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I have to disagree with the acc issue, I think you guys miss your SOs. It seems the same as any other set.
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Yes, acc sucks in the low game.
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I have to disagree with the acc issue, I think you guys miss your SOs. It seems the same as any other set.
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I understand that this is all very subjective, but I really did seem to get many more misses on my new Elect/Elect brute than on my new Thug/FF mastermind. All the Thug guy has so far is the first two pistol attacks (I just wanted to see what they're like, I'm not trying an iron man build or anything). It may be an accuracy issue, or it might just be an unlucky streak. But they'll never check it out if we don't report it.
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Very well then I contradict myself,
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yeah i hate the unlucky streaks. those are nuts! i have them on live sometimes, even after using BU and everything.
and i was starting to think it was an acc prob too, but i agree with JayboH, i miss SO's. you could never know for sure unless you get them and test it yourself.
I have a very important qt, or stupid qt...depending on your point of view, for the devs....majority of the powers have end drain...what is the base number for this? and if i am not mistaken this powers can be slotted with End modification ENh (enhancements you place in Stamina)... is this a bug or are this EnH for the END DRAIN part of this powers?
Elec really doesn't do enough damage, Thundesrstrike, Havoc Punch and Jacobs Ladder aren't nearly as powerful as other attacks like Bonesmasher, KO Blow or Heavy Mallet
Oh and BTW I hate the animations, gg recyc;ed animations
Charged Brawl == jab ...boring
Havoc Punch == what is that? Haymaker? Bonesmasher? I forget.
Jacobs Ladder == ok new, its not bad
Thunderstrike == Total Focus? Looks ridiculous. (sounds good though)
Please if you guys are gonna make us wait 6+ months for an Issue and claim you dont have much "animation time" actually make good use of the little time you have and devise entirely NEW animations for entirely NEW sets. Really, this doesn't look professional. Do something new, geez.
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Anyone else thing Jacobs ladders cone is very very small? I can only catch 2 of them in there.
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The cone seems ok to me. It's bigger than Eviscerate for sure, and seems a bit bigger than Shadow Maul too.
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Is that a joke? The cone is ridiculously small, it acts like headsplitter. You CAN get three guys but lining it up is often not worth the time and effort. Definatly NOT even close to shadow maul.
Indeed. If the cone is going to be that short it should hit in 180 degree arc. In a fast and furious melee it isn't conducive to Fury to take time to line 'em up carefully.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I see a lot of complaints about Jacobs Ladder range. Does anyone yet know the range, and the radius/arc?
I didn't take charged brawl on my blaster, so I can't comment on it; but both havoc punch and thunderstrike have always (AFAIK at least) had those animations, so I don't think there was much hope of them getting new animations all of a sudden.
Edit: Me bad grammar haves!
So Far I'm at 8.5, I've noticed:
The damage of this set is geared toward AOE so for all those people thinking SS, SM, and EM as comparison sets are going to be dissappointed-Think of this as an Improved Fire set with 4 count em 4! AOEs.
Right now my only dismay is that in order to get all the needed defensive tools by 22 I won't get chain induction till 24-so I'll just be using the first 4 attacks for quite a while. (Mez shield at 10, cj at 12, SJ at 14, hurdle 16, health 18, stam 20, Acro 22)
Possible Bugs/Needed Improvements: Sounds-Its sounds like a lightsabre fight instead of a brute SMASH especially if there is more than 1 electric brute on the team.
Add Some depth to Jacobs ladder cone-The AI seems to have been improved they resist most non-persistent techniques of getting them to stack for this small cone, I have gotten as many as 3 small figure mobs into it on a few occasions but those were either lots of effort or dumb luck in a heist.
T-strike-Change knockback to knockdown and also check on the disorient. I hate scattering mobs because I lose fury chasing them, this is the ultimate scatter attack, I swear it sends mobs further than handclap even which means that me and my team have to either chase the mob or worse lose control of the fight. I have been playing with this power for disorient and have yet to see it disorient any target from -3 to +3 including the focal target and any of the surrounding targets.
All in all this looks to be a solid PVE set and I think that pairing it with Invuln. wold make a rather nice combo akin to the old fire/invuln tanks of the past.
Im just curious, this is my first time dealing with an issue, but suppose there were things the mass's didnt like, not bug wise but just play wise. Would they change it eventually? I ask because I really hate the Charged Brawl looking like Boxing/Jab. I see the Electric melee as a fast paced type of thing, but Charged brawl looks so lethargic. Im not advocating a whole new animation, maybe something like Shadow Punch or a even the two hit Barrage thing. I just dont like it is all. I could live without it being statistically rgeat as long as it looks good.
Yeah I'd say Jacob's Ladder either needs a cost reduction a recharge increase or make the cone deeper/wider...afterall we're paying cone prices but doesn't seem like many are getting the cone...
Spent some time yesterday and today playing Bolt Lass up to 10, Electric/Electric. So far I've taken:
L1: Charged Brawl, Charged Armor
L2: Jacobs Ladder
L4: Conductive Shield
L6: Hurdle
L8: Thunder Strike
Haven't trained to 10 yet.
My thoughts so far, in no particular order:
<ul type="square">[*]I agree that the sounds are missing something. All I hear is the electric static sound, no actual punching noise.[*] Jacobs Ladder is crazy good. The cone range feels exactly like Shadow Maul to me, based on my experience with my Dark/Energy brute. It's possible the cone is a little smaller, as someone said above, but I haven't noticed. The damage is excellent (Fury helping, of course) and the animation is a whole lot better than Shadow Maul. Plus you occasionally put a mob to sleep with it. My Dark brute is very jealous.[*]The mob AI seems to be a bit different, as someone else mentioned earlier. They tend to surround you more instead of lining up in front. I find it easy to handle, though - when the mobs run at you, let them get off one melee attack, then move to one side. Presto, instant cone lineup.[*]Thunder Strike is awesome as well. Feels just like using KO Blow on my SS brute - except that you also have a chance to knock down surrounding mobs. I haven't seen any knockback yet unless I'm fighting lower levels - even cons and higher get knocked down correctly. [*]Charged Brawl is...well, it's a first quick attack. Nothing special, but a nice cheap Fury builder.[*]HeroStats tells me that all my attacks are hitting in the 75-85% range, exactly as one would expect from attacks with one training accuracy enhancement.[/list]Edit: added accuracy note
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Elec really doesn't do enough damage, Thundesrstrike, Havoc Punch and Jacobs Ladder aren't nearly as powerful as other attacks like Bonesmasher, KO Blow or Heavy Mallet
Oh and BTW I hate the animations, gg recyc;ed animations
Charged Brawl == jab ...boring
Havoc Punch == what is that? Haymaker? Bonesmasher? I forget.
Jacobs Ladder == ok new, its not bad
Thunderstrike == Total Focus? Looks ridiculous. (sounds good though)
Please if you guys are gonna make us wait 6+ months for an Issue and claim you dont have much "animation time" actually make good use of the little time you have and devise entirely NEW animations for entirely NEW sets. Really, this doesn't look professional. Do something new, geez.
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I'm not as disappointed but he's got a point.... 
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My quick and dirty estimates put the Brawl Index at about:
Charged Brawl = 1.38889smash + .94444energy = 2.333
Havok Punch = 2.2246smash + 1.4444energy = 3.669
Jacobs Ladder = 4.174 energy only
Not too bad really. I wonder what Thunder strike will be. Something in the 6ish range would be darn nice.
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5.44 total, 2.66 energy and AoE, 2.78 smashing single target.
Testing out different combos yesterday -gawd the lag was nasty.
I have an elec/elec and an elec/dark running because I want to compare the viability of the primary and secondary.
One of the things I noticed and need someone to back me up:
BI - as noted before I got around
Charged brawl - 2.33
Havoc Punch - 3.66
Nothing spectacular so far
Recharge times
Charged Brawl - about 4 sec
Havoc Punch - about 8 sec
I was not able to nail down the activation time due to the lag. I had to do almost all of my testing on an inside mission.
And trying to nail down the endurance use one those two seemed to be problematic in that under the combat tab it basically said you were draining "some endurance" every time - but I did not see this.
Slotting Enhancements - wont know how really effective these are until I get to the DO and SO range but you can slot the following in Charged brawl and Havoc punch
* Accuracy - normal
* Damage - normal
* Recharge - normal
* Endurance cost - normal
* Taunt - normal
* Sleep - this is new and seems counter-productive for a brute
* Endurance Mod - this is new and not sure how much of a boost you will get from it
Being able to slot your first two attacks that you use so much anyway with End Mods might open up some of the armor sets like dark and stone that tend to be a bit heavy on endurance use.
Running my Elec/Dark last night I picked up Death Shroud at 4 and was able to run it and Dark Embrace for most of the mission with little or no trouble. My endurance did go down, but not nearly as fast because of the endurance I was picking up. Hopefully I can get this toon up to the mid teens and see how well slotting 2 Acc, 2 Rchg, 2 End Mods will do for boosting your endurance recovery. Might go a long way to keeping your endurance up on those nasty AV fights in the mid-late game.
For those of you who do reach the DO and SO level, can you post up info on how effective it is to run with End Mods in those two attacks? That would be cool to know.
Oh well, more testing tonight if I get some time.
Has anyone figured out the BI on TS yet? Same as the blaster version?