Archery/Trick Arrows for I7

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I7 changes:

1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.

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There are still a few more problems

1. Glue arrows recharge is too long for an early dependant on power

2. Flash arrows effect is too small for an early dependant on power.

3. Net arrow, single target immob's are still considered mostly useless except for controllers trying to initiate containment. Animation too long also.

4. acid arrows area is too small.

5. Disruption arrow is 3 times longer recharge and 2/3 the debuff of tar patch.

6. The rest of archery's animations are too long also.

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QFT.

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This all comes off as "too little, too late." Positron said if Trick Arrow was underperforming on Live, it would be fixed. The fixes listed are either very minor, or bug fixes. When is TA going to get a significant buff?

And the Archery fixes are kind of "meh." Rain of Arrows will be a lot better, but I never had a problem with Fistful of Arrows' animation. Blazing Arrow is my biggest animation problem.

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I tend to agree. While its nice that the bugs are getting fixed, that doesnt address the fundamental flaws in the design of the set.

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Or, I can keep yelling at you in every thread you post to.

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She'll do it, too. She yells at me constantly, even when I SK up to her TA/A so that she can actually finish missions.

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Honestly, Castle, with Archery it seems to me that the two biggest problem with the set are too much lethal damage and a lackluster secondary effect. Buffing the acc bonus some and adding in different damage types - like some toxic damage for poison arrowheads or something - would go a long way toward rehabilitating archers.

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and while you're at it, doing the same for Assault rifle would be great too.

This is cool. I knew there was a reason why I didn't delete my Arch?Fire Blaster yet (other than I haven't needed the character slot yet for my altitis). Maybe he will survive the purgng that I have planned for post-I7.

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Sky Raider jump bots, when they explode, do lethal/fire damage.

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A-ha. An exploding something that does fire damage!

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Right now at the higher levels my toon feels almost useless on large teams. I draw more aggro with the AoEs then I can handle, so either I stick to single target attacks that do VERY little damage or I just hope not to die in every fight. Most things die so fast in large groups that the debuffs are almost worthless, and you end up being relegated to a glue and oil machine.

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I always think it's hilarious how Manticore actually does stuff in the comic-books. Every time I see him fire a "stunner arrow" into a group of enemies I think "stupid noob, a blaster's gonna hafta come along after you and nuke all those mobs you held."



And what was with Manticore taking out Infernal, Mynx, Ms. Liberty, and Swan all in one shot? Are they f***ing mocking us? A TA/Archery defender can't kill a single regen scrapper...ever! much less a whole group of people with one shot.

It just cracks me up that this game deviates from comic-book superheroism so much that the comic that's based on it doesn't even look like it takes place in the same world.

~Gabriel

The last post hits the major problem with all the arrow powers right on. That is for a game that means to replicate the feel of comic-book superheroism, these powers are as far from what an Archer hero as can be, other than the fact the powers use a bow and arrow.

You look at any hero that uses archery as his/her primary form of attack... whether it be in comic books, literature, film, etc... and I will point out the two factors that make them effective as a hero: SPEED and ACCURACY!

Now as things are, Archery and Trick Arrow are some of the slowest attacks out there. Yes, with I7 three powers are having their attack animations shortened. I say this is not enough. ALL arrow-based powers need to be faster. Arrow-attack powers are already weaker than any other based on the fact they are purely Lethal damage, which everyone knows has the most defense and resistance against it. Counteract this by giving the speed they need.

Finally, the point on Accuracy. For an Archery based hero, a miss should be a rarity. Again, citing the heroes for which this game is meant to emulate, a miss for them is very, very uncommon. If it does happen, it is because of extraordinary defenses, abilities, or circumstances happening with their target. So I say adjust the accuracy of arrow-powers to reflect this fact.

Do these two things I suggest, and you will make a person playing a hero who has choosen Archery or Trick Arrow feel like the hero they wish to be.

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The last post hits the major problem with all the arrow powers right on. That is for a game that means to replicate the feel of comic-book superheroism, these powers are as far from what an Archer hero as can be, other than the fact the powers use a bow and arrow.

You look at any hero that uses archery as his/her primary form of attack... whether it be in comic books, literature, film, etc... and I will point out the two factors that make them effective as a hero: SPEED and ACCURACY!

Now as things are, Archery and Trick Arrow are some of the slowest attacks out there. Yes, with I7 three powers are having their attack animations shortened. I say this is not enough. ALL arrow-based powers need to be faster. Arrow-attack powers are already weaker than any other based on the fact they are purely Lethal damage, which everyone knows has the most defense and resistance against it. Counteract this by giving the speed they need.

Finally, the point on Accuracy. For an Archery based hero, a miss should be a rarity. Again, citing the heroes for which this game is meant to emulate, a miss for them is very, very uncommon. If it does happen, it is because of extraordinary defenses, abilities, or circumstances happening with their target. So I say adjust the accuracy of arrow-powers to reflect this fact.

Do these two things I suggest, and you will make a person playing a hero who has choosen Archery or Trick Arrow feel like the hero they wish to be.

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Hear, hear. You and Vox together have summed up the problem very well.

Just go up against a Wyvern Boss some time, to see what Archery can do if it's actually worth a crap. Hell, even the Lts and Minions have insane accuracy...the damage may not be awesome, but their hit rate has got to be at the cap all the time. I swear they never miss.

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Honestly, Castle, with Archery it seems to me that the two biggest problem with the set are too much lethal damage and a lackluster secondary effect. Buffing the acc bonus some and adding in different damage types - like some toxic damage for poison arrowheads or something - would go a long way toward rehabilitating archers.

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Oh oh... someone's probably already suggested this but:

Replace one of the powers in the set with a utlity power. Using this power would apply a random secondary affect to the arrows.

Example, you use this power and set all your arrows on fire. You use it and add acid or posion for toxic. Etc etc. This could help with the lethal end of it.

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Oh oh... someone's probably already suggested this but:

Replace one of the powers in the set with a utlity power. Using this power would apply a random secondary affect to the arrows.

Example, you use this power and set all your arrows on fire. You use it and add acid or posion for toxic. Etc etc. This could help with the lethal end of it.

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Ooh, I like. It could act kinda like those Council guns, that add either cold or fire randomly. I've seen them shoot fire bullets, and then ice bullets right after it. Just extend the possibilities to include toxic and...I dunno, energy. Any projectile can be enhanced, and essentially they all transfer energy.

Seriously, that's a good idea.

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Honestly, Castle, with Archery it seems to me that the two biggest problem with the set are too much lethal damage and a lackluster secondary effect. Buffing the acc bonus some and adding in different damage types - like some toxic damage for poison arrowheads or something - would go a long way toward rehabilitating archers.

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Oh oh... someone's probably already suggested this but:

Replace one of the powers in the set with a utlity power. Using this power would apply a random secondary affect to the arrows.

Example, you use this power and set all your arrows on fire. You use it and add acid or posion for toxic. Etc etc. This could help with the lethal end of it.

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Very good idea.

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I7 changes:

1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.

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There are still a few more problems

1. Glue arrows recharge is too long for an early dependant on power

2. Flash arrows effect is too small for an early dependant on power.

3. Net arrow, single target immob's are still considered mostly useless except for controllers trying to initiate containment. Animation too long also.

4. acid arrows area is too small.

5. Disruption arrow is 3 times longer recharge and 2/3 the debuff of tar patch.

6. The rest of archery's animations are too long also.

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QFT.

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Second that, everything there with the exception of the Animation time, I'm OK with long animation times as long as we get the rest of those buffs.

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this power breaks if I look at it crosseyed.

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.....Is that your Signature Power?

I like the initial changes, but there had best be more changes coming, Castle... Sounds like you've just disappointed most of the Archers out there. We were hoping you'd buff the set to where people actually see TA as a viable Primary and not a freakin' joke.

Other defender sets outdo TA's debuffs with fewer powers that are learned earlier, and the other sets have heals and buffs to further distance themselves from TA. Not only that, the recharge times on TA's powers are frustratingly long, with some of them being early in the set.

Don't stop the music now, Castle. I'm not sure if Positron (A fellow Defender!) is still paying attention to the ill-executed TA problem, but we could really use more buffs.

I really like the idea of adding Knockdown to Entangling Arrow. It's nicely thematic and differs greatly from Web Grenade in it's effect.

Trick arrow is seen as the weakest mastermind secondary, much less a defender primary, and with the new patron pools there is little incentive (from a purely power perspective) to take the set. Adding an unreliable sleep to PGA really wont change that.

That snark aside, I really do appreciate you taking the time to inform us of the work you've done, Castle. I'm guessing this was a "fix the powers that didn't do what they said" kinda fix, and that the "fix the powerset that doesn't perform up to expectation" will hopefully come in time.

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And what was with Manticore taking out Infernal, Mynx, Ms. Liberty, and Swan all in one shot? Are they f***ing mocking us? A TA/Archery defender can't kill a single regen scrapper...ever! much less a whole group of people with one shot.


~Gabriel

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They were all grey to him.

[Actually, I am not sure that would help]

And plz look at the take-out-the-bow-animation. I m (i was, i don t play her anymore because of this problems...) a kin / arch def and when I want to put an arrow power based after a kin one, it takes hours ...

I still believe this set CAN be great, thx _castle_ to look at.

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I7 changes:

1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.

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Castle,

Will the endurance reductions for some of the archery powers that you mentioned previously still be going through?

Also, as a "wishlist" type item, I think lowering the animation of all single-target attacks to the speed of Snap Arrow would do wonders for balancing the set. As a previous poster said, the secondary effect of Archery could be Speed and Accuracy, which from a concept point of view is what it should be anyway.

I was so excited when I saw this thread in Dev Digest. Thank God, I thought. The darn set was finally getting fixed.

Without an reference to more improvements coming, this is a huge dissapointment.

Are you devs so far out of touch with this game that you think this is all TA needs? (I have never played Archery set).

I have long since given up on my TA Defender and MM. (Its ok as a controller secondary as it syngerizes nicely). However I feel for these guys. I groan to myself whenever a TA character joins my PUG. It means to me, no matter good of a player this person is, he will not be able to hold up his end.

I'm not asking for you guys to go nuts and do what you did to Dark Miasma, that was clearly overboards, and that set has been slowly pulled back to a reasonable power level.

Add to this that FLash Arrow (a power I liked more than most) is about to get nerfed (not sure how this will balance out with the I7 def changes).

All you TA folks out there, you have my sympathy and a spot on my teams. Fortunatly the game is easy enough for a few a good players with bad powers to not mess up a team.

At least till you get to something like the villian respec or the villian HO trial.

Unlike hami, no dead weight is going to be able to get hami'o viliian side.

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I7 changes:

1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.

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I am just... just so happy!
I'll be playing the heck out of my Blaster on Champion when this rolls around!

Archery getting some love!

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... this power breaks if I look at it cross-eyed.

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Sounds like a new temp power.

Cross-eyed.
Your intimidating stare taunts and angers your foe which breaks his concentration at a critical moment.
Interrupt one power. Allowed enhancements, Accuracy buff, Recharge Rate Increase, Confusion, Fear, and Taunt.

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have my fingers crossed -- this power breaks if I look at it crosseyed.

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now thats funny