Archery/Trick Arrows for I7
By
Alodarn,
Posted on: 2006-04-03 14:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
sweet, thanks
Edit: oh yeah.... FIRST
Honestly, Castle, with Archery it seems to me that the two biggest problem with the set are too much lethal damage and a lackluster secondary effect. Buffing the acc bonus some and adding in different damage types - like some toxic damage for poison arrowheads or something - would go a long way toward rehabilitating archers.
Any chance perhaps of a positive change to Flash Arrow in light of the recent changes to to hit debuff enhancements? Pretty please?
Also, what exactly was the Oil Slick bug? I thought it didn't light all the time by design. I'd personally be happy if you lowered the defence on the Slick. Nothing worse than MISSING with Blazing Arrow from the 'most accurate' of the secondaries...
Other than that it's nice to see some love at all. THanks for the update.
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1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
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How bout working with Oilslick so it works with pets????? this has been reported all over the boards. Being a fire/ta troller using oilslick makes my imps stop working for extended periods of time even if you /release_pets.....!!!!!
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I7 changes:
1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
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As far as we were aware, Oil Slick was never meant to have a 100% ignition rate. The problem there is that it's streakier than it really should be (some of us have had it fire up consistantly for hours on end, then suddenly fail to light at all for hours).
The more relevant and important problem is the insanely high defense that the target appears to have. Missing the target repeatedly, despite having accuracy >90% and taking no other actions between attempts, isn't supposed to happen. Ever. Especially not on an immobile, supposedly defenseless target, essentially no different from a desk or crate.
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3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.
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I'm guessing that you're referring to the decade-long pause after these powers finish animating. Will the same be done for Ice Arrow, Acid Arrow, and any other TA or Archery powers with post-animation pauses? What about the 0.5-1.0 second delay between when Entangling Arrow's animation completes and the target is actually immobilized?
It's a good start, _Castle_, and appreciated, but some more information would go a long ways. If the sets are going to take a while to get straightened out, it's understandable, but telling us would give us a lot less to complain about and more to look forward to.
Or, I can keep yelling at you in every thread you post to. 
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I7 changes:
1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.
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w00t! 
the point though is that if I hit the slick with my fire arrow, it should ignite everytime. Fire + oil = Bigger Fire. Although, it really shouldnt be that hard to hit in the first place.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
This is really sort of a nitpicky thing more than a serious problem (like the decade-long pause and the Entangling Arrow delay), but I would absolutely love it if Explosive Arrow did smashing/fire or lethal/fire instead of smashing/lethal. Even if it's 1% fire...that would give Archery a synergy with Trick Arrow in that you could hurl an AoE to attack foes and the Oil Slick with the same shot, instead of having to waste a Blazing Arrow.
I know that all the other grenade-type attacks (M30, the dynamite the Scrapyarders use, all the foe grenade powers) are smashing/lethal. I've watched the combat log to make sure there isn't already some in-game precedent for fire damage from grenades, but there isn't. This confuses me slightly. There's a massive, firey explosion. Shouldn't it burn at least slightly? Yes, there's a concussion (smashing) and yes, there's shrapnel (lethal), but I feel like there ought to be a tiny fire component, too.
Once again, this is sort of a small thing, but something I feel would also greatly improve the interoperability of Trick Arrow and Archery, because Electricity, Energy, Sonic, and Radiation all have a cone or AoE attack with an energy component that can be used to set the slick on fire without "wasting" a shot.
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Any word on endurance changes? Snap shot and ranged shot seem a bit off (not sure which one, but when cycling them I run dry on my blaster faster than other sets).
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2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.quote[ QUOTE ]
Will it still have the bug in PvP where the animation goes off, endurance use, but no icon/affect on the villian/hero used on?
Yay! This is a start!
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BTW, no one seems to like Mace for tankers, you should look into that. SayNoMore, hint, hint, nudge nudge, KnowWhatIMean?
Nothing about the horrendous recharge times on all the good powers, eh?
Three slotting Glue Arrow with recharge SOs just so you can use it once a fight is horribly wasteful for a 3rd tier power.
And weren't you going to look at Entangling Arrow to try to at least make it as good as Web Grenade?
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I7 changes:
1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.
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Thank you, Castle. As mentioned below, Flash Arrow is in need of some loving as well. If not stackable, any change of either increaseing the base duration of the flash effect/debuff, or of increasing the slight current strength of the debuff? Another thing the Arrow-using SG mates of mine often complain about (I had one too, with this, before I stoppped playing him so much) was the splash radius on Acid Arrow being kind of tiny and inconsistent. A slight increase on this, perhaps? Maybe another couple of feet? Nothing as huge as firewall, but perhaps a doubling of the already small AOE area?
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Yay! This is a start!
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.
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BTW, no one seems to like Mace for tankers, you should look into that. SayNoMore, hint, hint, nudge nudge, KnowWhatIMean?
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Seconded.
I dont know how to present a good case for "Could you please look at mace, it seems to be below par", but it seems to take some punishment damage wise for its weak stun/control abilities.
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1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
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I assume you're saying that if this bug fix works, then any successful fire/energy attack on the oil slick will always light the slick? That would be great!
As already mentioned in this thread (and others), we'd really and truly appreciate it if the abnormal miss rate was looked into and addressed. It's not uncommon to miss the Oil Slick with Blazing Arrow for the entire duration that the Oil Slick is targetable. That's just frustrating!
Also, I am hoping against hope that these fixes don't constitute a clean bill of health on the TA set. We've been patiently awaiting a revisiting of the set for almost nine months (though not always pleasantly patient, I'm the first to admit). I'm eagerly looking forward to a new "Developer Response Thread" on the set, and hope that player input is considered this time. (Sorry if it sounds like I'm dumping on you, _Castle_, it's just that you're the ONLY developer to even mention Trick Arrow since early August of last year, and a lot of us are just plain antsy to get our favorite concept set in the same league as actual defender sets!)
We really do appreciate the time and effort you're putting in for the few of us who play TA.
A few things that might need looking at as well include:
- Flash Arrow: the ToHit debuff seems remarkably low and is non-stackable. Was this power intended only to serve as a Perception debuff with a hit check?
- Entangling Arrow: it hits the target, but the Immobilize doesn't take effect for a brief moment.
- Glue Arrow: the recharge on this is horrendously long.
- Ice Arrow: the activation animation ends with a short pause. Could this possibly be shaved off?
Now, those are the only big ones I can think of since I've only got limited experience with the set, but that there's some love coming down the pipe makes my TA/A Defender shout with glee.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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How bout working with Oilslick so it works with pets????? this has been reported all over the boards. Being a fire/ta troller using oilslick makes my imps stop working for extended periods of time even if you /release_pets.....!!!!!
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Yeah, that *should* be fixed as well. I've not tested it since the AI guys told me it was dealt with. I have my fingers crossed -- this power breaks if I look at it crosseyed.
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1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.
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Well its a start at least.... 
I'm glad for the love, and my TA/Arch defender will welcome these fixes. However, there are a few other things I've noticed.
-- Any radiation debuff that is contacting the Oil Slick makes it untargetable quicker then normal
-- I almost never use flash arrow or net arrow anymore due to their overall worthless nature. Either giving the net a longer duration and/or a one time knockdown component WITH the immobilize(to show that it entangled the target as they moved) would help. The flash needs to either be stackable or have a bigger debuff.
-- Acid arrow either needs a bigger radius, as already suggested, or a bigger debuff. I'd rather you take out the damage which is laughable and give me another 5 or 10% debuff.
Right now at the higher levels my toon feels almost useless on large teams. I draw more aggro with the AoEs then I can handle, so either I stick to single target attacks that do VERY little damage or I just hope not to die in every fight. Most things die so fast in large groups that the debuffs are almost worthless, and you end up being relegated to a glue and oil machine.
Oh piffle, I forgot this one little request.
Could the damage numbers from Oil Slick be made to be orange rather than gray (to denote that it's your damage, rather than someone else's)? Pretty please? Yeah, I know it's minor, but orange numbers are just that much more satisfying psychologically.
Sky Raider jump bots, when they explode, do lethal/fire damage.
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I7 changes:
1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.
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There are still a few more problems
1. Glue arrows recharge is too long for an early dependant on power
2. Flash arrows effect is too small for an early dependant on power.
3. Net arrow, single target immob's are still considered mostly useless except for controllers trying to initiate containment. Animation too long also.
4. acid arrows area is too small.
5. Disruption arrow is 3 times longer recharge and 2/3 the debuff of tar patch.
6. The rest of archery's animations are too long also.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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this power breaks if I look at it crosseyed.
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/em recommends a good opthamologist for _Castle_, just in case. 
I think these changes are a promising start. This won't fix either TA or Archery, but I'm OK with incremental changes. I'm of the opinion that the hurried changes on Test played a substantial role in breaking the sets to start with, and I'll not be so hypocritical as to suggest that we rush the changes again just because they're in our favor this time.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
This all comes off as "too little, too late." Positron said if Trick Arrow was underperforming on Live, it would be fixed. The fixes listed are either very minor, or bug fixes. When is TA going to get a significant buff?
And the Archery fixes are kind of "meh." Rain of Arrows will be a lot better, but I never had a problem with Fistful of Arrows' animation. Blazing Arrow is my biggest animation problem.
"She started dancin' to that fine, fine music,
Y'know, her life was saved by rock 'n' roll."
--The Velvet Underground
I7 changes:
1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.