Archery/Trick Arrows for I7
By
Alodarn,
Posted on: 2006-04-03 14:59 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
More food for thought as I continue to flip back and forth between my Storm Fender and my TA Fender...
The real problem is every useful TA power is on lay-away... I want to use them more, but they aren't there for me.
Recharges
45secs Poison Gas Arrow
120secs Glue Arrow
120secs Disruption Arrow
180secs Oil Slick Arrow
300secs EMP Arrow
Compared to Storm... Trick Arrow's average recharge times are 200-400% greater! Sure these are different powers, but I'm a hero and I like to USE MY POWERS. Storm's recharges are much faster (even if you ignore the bottom 4 powers):
Recharges
8 secs Gale
4 secs O2
10 secs Snow Storm
15 secs Steamy Mist
60 secs Freezing Rain
10 secs Hurricane
45 secs Thunder Clap
60 secs Tornado
90 secs Lightning Storm
Yeah, I know, can't compare apples to oranges, but I really think the biggest flaw for a set wtih NO HEALING, is that none of its powers are readily available. It's like you wait for every bloody power you need (even if it's inferior or not very effective).
Cheers,
SUN
I think Archers (blasters) are the weakest Blaster power I know because I Have a lv 35 archer and he does alot less damage than my other counter parts I think this should be looked into and alos I would like to see some beter attacks the ones that we already have seem soo boring and rain of arrows is our special but it looks soo normal why cant it be like Blazing rain of arrows or something like that make it more fun for archers to show off their moves
Blaster damage directly corresponds to usage of punctuation. Mystery solved!
Thanks for the changes, but it doesn't address the core problem with Archery. No Secondary Effect damage mitigation and only average damage with only one Cone attack other than the Rain of Arrows. Damage mitigation is extremely important in the ED-ified version of CoH for Blasters.
Anyway, I'll throw some solutions you're way.
1.) Make Archery higher damage than other Blaster sets.
2.) Make Archery attacks 100 meter Range or higher.
3.) Make Archery attacks cause DoT damage from wounding.
Any one of these three changes would make Archery Blast play as well as, but not better than the other Blaster Primaries because Archery has no Damage Mitigation like all the other Blaster sets do. No Damage Mitigation means the Archery Blaster takes every attack on the chin with no let up until all attackers are defeated. This can be literally 5 times as much damage, or more, sustained by Archery Blasters in fights than other Blasters face. Think about it. If I knock a target down once, it loses two attacks. I knock it down again. It gets one attack off, but loses two more. If it's a minion, it won't be getting up. Something bigger, it will get up and probably be harder to knock down, but, you get the idea. Archery gets none of that. The Archer just gets hit by every attack, mez, stun, that gets thrown it's way and dies very quickly because of it.
Thanks.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
1.) Make Archery higher damage than other Blaster sets.
2.) Make Archery attacks 100 meter Range or higher.
3.) Make Archery attacks cause DoT damage from wounding.
--------------------
1) Agreed
2) Agreed
3) Agreed
In summary, the Devs could implement TWO of the THREE suggested changes and it still wouldn't cause envy in the ICE/x community. That should tell you something right there...
Cheers,
SUN
Here's a suggestion for a unique and useful secondary effect; Have all the blaster Archery powers include a very short disorient effect. The target(s) are stunned for a moment from the impact.
This would give Archery blasters the ability to start a fight with an AE power (usually death for a blaster on a team), minimizing the return alpha strike. In addition, it would help drop toggles on troubesome lieutenants like Storm Shamans, Tsoo Sorcerers, etcetera, and act as fairly effective damage mitigation if they slot for disorient duration.
It might be too powerful in PvP, though, since it would drop toggles on all squishies. What do you all think?
I'd be satisfied just doing the same knockdown that CoT Archers do with their crossbows. Given the amount of time I've spent flat on my back because of them, I darn sure know it'd be an effective secondary for my attacks.
_Castle_ ? Wish list? Puleeeeeeze....?
I want an archery/archery blaster. Plain and simple. So I can use my secondaries and not put away the bow, which looks incredibly stupid.
Or make it so that the devices animation is synergistic with archery. You throw grenades with one hand, why can't you just keep your bow in the other?
But I really, really, really want an archery/archery blaster. Until you give me one, I'm going to continue playing my gimped TA/archery def, slotted and played like a blaster. So, there. [whimper]
I'll [i]almost certainly[/i] be happy with I7....."SOON(tm)"
Too bad "Maturity" isn't an Enhanceable power.
Anybody with a bow is okay in my book. ;-)
@Linuial
Starfire/Hellfire
Liberty, Infinity & Protector
[ QUOTE ]
Not putting the bow away when using other powers. Brawl is the only attack power in the game that allows you to not put your weapon away when attacking with it. Brawl also took more animation time by several multiples than any other power in the game. Doing something similar with every power which could be used in conjunction with Archery/Trick Arrow simply isn't feasible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay noted.
That being so....why can't you give us an archery/TA blaster????
So I can quit playing my TA/archery def like she was a gimped blaster instead.
I'll [i]almost certainly[/i] be happy with I7....."SOON(tm)"
Too bad "Maturity" isn't an Enhanceable power.
Anybody with a bow is okay in my book. ;-)
@Linuial
Starfire/Hellfire
Liberty, Infinity & Protector
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not putting the bow away when using other powers. Brawl is the only attack power in the game that allows you to not put your weapon away when attacking with it. Brawl also took more animation time by several multiples than any other power in the game. Doing something similar with every power which could be used in conjunction with Archery/Trick Arrow simply isn't feasible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay noted.
That being so....why can't you give us an archery/TA blaster????
So I can quit playing my TA/archery def like she was a gimped blaster instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know Trick arrow would make a better blaster secondary that defender primary its so bad.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not putting the bow away when using other powers. Brawl is the only attack power in the game that allows you to not put your weapon away when attacking with it. Brawl also took more animation time by several multiples than any other power in the game. Doing something similar with every power which could be used in conjunction with Archery/Trick Arrow simply isn't feasible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay noted.
That being so....why can't you give us an archery/TA blaster????
So I can quit playing my TA/archery def like she was a gimped blaster instead.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know Trick arrow would make a better blaster secondary that defender primary its so bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ya know... I think Trick Arrow was designed to be a Controller Secondary..... which meant it had to be a Defender Primary. Still I think a modified Trick Arrow... we'll call it Tactical Arrow for now... could possibly solve alot of Archery's shortcomings.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
Honestly, Archery blasters I don't have a problem with, save for endurance sucking. I did have a TA/Archery defender, and found I had to play him as a blaster, which didn't work very well. Biggest issues I've got with the TA set....
--Flash arrow seems rather worthless to take for what it can do and it's endurance cost.
--poison gas arrow I respec out of, because it just didn't seem to work five percent of the time.
--glue arrow had a painfully long recharge time.
With the bad there is some good. Ice arrow is good, but it has a very quick duration. It seems to simply slow down a target, hold them for ten seconds and then it's gone.
I didn't wade through this whole set sorry, scanned a few pages.
Is JUST Defender Trick arrow getting pluses, or the shared Defender/blaster set also getting some love?
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't wade through this whole set sorry, scanned a few pages.
Is JUST Defender Trick arrow getting pluses, or the shared Defender/blaster set also getting some love?
[/ QUOTE ]
As per _Castle_'s original post, Archery will be getting a slight buff:
[ QUOTE ]
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is assumed to affect all versions of Archery, so yes, Blasters will benefit as well. And this is of course along with the previously stated End Reduction for the early Archery attacks as well.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
What I would love to see is other Trick Arrow MMs besides Ninjas/TR. (Made mainly because new players feel it fits their build) Out of all the MM secondarys, Trick Arrow is by far the most over-looked. As mentioned, their debuffs are not nearly strong enough. (Flash Arrow to name one...) From what I've heard, the Dark Miasma heal debuff accurcay more than Flash Arrow does... (I may have been misinformed)
I like the holds but the animation time kinda makes it useless... By the time I get the attack off (And you add in the little delay before the hold takes affect) the enemy is either dead or right in my face.
Other power sets have the same debuffs with half the powers. I would take Radiation Infection and Enervating Field from Rad Emission over the entire TA set. Because the set has NOTHING but debuffs/holds, it should be one of the best sets for debuffs/holds. If you sacrifice buffing powers and heals, the set should make up for that by being a great debuff set.
I also have to aggree with a few of the other people that commented on the set. Trick Arrow, at first glance, appears to be a mini-troller set. And I like the idea. A set to make Defenders/MMs kinda like controllers/dominators. But the holds aren't good enough. Entangling Arrow is probably the worst immobilize power. Give it something to make it good. A def debuff would make the power very appealing.(Even if it's only a small one) It was already said but Glue Arrow's recharge is a bit... excessive...
I love the TR idea but I would like to see it made better. Here's praying for I7... Keep your fingers crossed...
[ QUOTE ]
Ya know... I think Trick Arrow was designed to be a Controller Secondary.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, 'cause it would match up so well with the Controller's arrow-based primary powerset. Uhm... yeah. TA is Devices-on-a-stick plain and simple. It never should've been a Defender primary. Defenders should've gotten Sonics, Blasters Archery, and Controller, Scrappers and Tankers unique primary and secondaries of their own.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ya know... I think Trick Arrow was designed to be a Controller Secondary.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, 'cause it would match up so well with the Controller's arrow-based primary powerset. Uhm... yeah. TA is Devices-on-a-stick plain and simple. It never should've been a Defender primary. Defenders should've gotten Sonics, Blasters Archery, and Controller, Scrappers and Tankers unique primary and secondaries of their own.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they should have. Archery is a comics staple.
The problem is that the base values, numbers, recharges, etc. on the set were set inappropriately low by the Devs when the powerset was launched, making it the weakest BY FAR of all defender, controller, and mastermind sets.
I would love to hear the development rationale for setting the strength of the powers so "low".
I like the idea of shooting on the move for TA/A. 
[ QUOTE ]
_Castle_ ? Wish list? Puleeeeeeze....?
I want an archery/archery blaster. Plain and simple. So I can use my secondaries and not put away the bow, which looks incredibly stupid.
Or make it so that the devices animation is synergistic with archery. You throw grenades with one hand, why can't you just keep your bow in the other?
But I really, really, really want an archery/archery blaster. Until you give me one, I'm going to continue playing my gimped TA/archery def, slotted and played like a blaster. So, there. [whimper]
[/ QUOTE ]
I went with your idea: New Blaster Secondary: Bow Mastery
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the game, having all the animations be as quick as snap shot would definitely decrease the visual appeal of the set.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the problem isn't the animation movements quite so much as the "stand there and hold still" before and after drawing. That, and the fact that somehow the bow strings issued by Freedom Corps must be really noisy, since with cloaking device and group invisibility mobs can still sometimes hear me pull back the bow string and will start attacking before the arrow ever even fires.
[ QUOTE ]
If any of you have ever seen a movie called "Hawk, the Slayer" you'll remember how absolutely silly the archer in that looked.
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean that wasn't the inspiration for the Archery primary??? Darn, there goes my hope for the Full-Auto Archery Epic...
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is as long as they are, I dont care how pretty they are when only 50 people are playing them.
It doesnt make sense that you should put aesthetics before functionality.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.