Sunchild

It must be the access to War Mace... nerf them good!

yeah, I found it fairly enjoyable myself.

This was definitely a cool MMO video. These guys take their FRAPSing seriously. If you appreciate the time they took to make this video, you'll enjoy it. Hosting link below

mmo parody vid

Cheers.

Burn is a mess...

The recharge does nothing to fix a power that was gutted, tweaked, and left to rot for 17 months.

The real fix doesn't involve the recharge timer, but any veteran player could tell you that.

Keep trying Dev Team and think holistically in the future...
Burn is recycling status protection and damage in a positional delivery (jump/run) that precludes flight, with a chaos effect. Does this sound reasonable?

My thoughts:

1) Increase Hover base speed another 10-15%
2) Increase Flight base speed another 10-15%
3) EITHER remove FLIGHT-SUPPRESSION or make the suppression be only a -33% penalty. The rooting is beyond frustrating and silly for a super-heroic game.

Cheers,

SUN

Congratz!

It's a shame the game is presently designed for the Team Corrupter victory


I'd like to see someone win the SF with a fairly even distribution of all ATs. As long as buffs and debuffs stack to the ceiling or the floor, no other AT brings more to the table than a corrupter.

Cheers,

SUN

It's all fine, I actually enjoy debating the topic with Fanboy.

I guess my position is the sets for Stalkers should remain unique, but equally effective in different areas. What I mean is, one set should be #1 in DPS, another should be #1 in AOE, another #1 in unique damage, #1 in secondary effects, etc. There are about 5-6 categories that really matter in both PvE and PvP. I truly believe one set should not sit at the top of all categories, and likewise, one set should not sit at the bottom.

With Scrappers, I believe the accelerated anmiation times went a long way, especially with the benefits of FU. However, with Stalkers you have a conundrum. The Devs believe Build Up on a Stalker is crucial for dealing with LTs/Bosses with AS (an other attacks). However, the Devs must recognize that Build Up does not provide nearly the same benefit when you have a set with low burst damage/common damage type.

It ISN'T that I want Follow-Up on a Stalker, I just believe the set needs something else to bring it from the bottom of the peer group to the median.

Do I know what the solution is? I have some suggestions, ranging from replacing Shockwave with a Armor-Piercing (-Res/-Regen) version of Aim (no Acc bonus) to just increasing the damage on Eviscerate (more burst damage to compete).

At the end of the day, it doesn't take a ton of play-time to realize Claws are underperforming and the animation changes didn't really change too much for Stalkers.

Cheers,

SUN

I think that is a not equal sign, so I'll go with it.

My comparative debate isn't just against EM, it is a holistic approach for all Stalker primaries. In its current form, Claws for Stalkers just ends up at the bottom of the barrel without FU.

Claws is not king of any category, and pool powers such as Hasten and Stamina, along with enhancements further this disparity.

Claws for Stalkers has nothing to write home about (to say, Claws isn't the king of any category and hardly averaging at the top of the peer group across the listed categories).

DPE... nope
DPS...nope
Burst Dmg...nope
% Crits from Hidden...nope
Dmg from Hidden...nope
AOE...nope
Ranged...nope
Unique Dmg. type...nope
Utility for PvP.... nope

In summary, this isn't an argument only against EM (which is deemed fine by the Devs), this is an argument to BUFF Claws for Stalkers because it has NOTHING to be proud about... besides looking whicked-supa-cool.

However, having cool graphics shouldn't be a reason for a set to underperform for a specific AT.

Cheers,

SUN

In case the Devs believe everyone is in LOVE with the new Claws changes, please feel free to visit the Stalkers forum.

Without FU, Claws loses it's defining power and any semblance of competitiveness within its peer group. It is the equivalent of SS losing Rage.... let's be honest, that wouldn't fly. Claws for Scrappers might be grand, but for Stalkers it is at the bottom of the peer group with no claim to fame (king of AOE, Burst Dmg, DPE, DPS, etc.).

PLEASE address the Claws changes S_E_P_A_R_A_T_E_L_Y. The discussion needs to be independent for both Stalkers and Scrappers.

In summary, testing demonstrates:

Scrappers =

Stalkers =

Cheers,

SUN

My thoughts on Defense Scaling changes:

PvE
1) Changes are good and provided better survivability for defensive-based sets
2) SR should not have had its Passives lowered after receiving the 1/3 buff. SR has way too many powers that offer redundant defenses and the Passives are WAY too low. Presently, a Defender can provide an entire group, including himself a base of 4% defense running Manuevers. It takes a SR Scrapper three Passive Powers to gain equivalent protection for themselves. A Stalker isn't even granted a passive for AOE, but runs Hide to help (3 powers again).


PvP
High level PvP Def-based characters are hurting. There are too many skills to CUT THROUGH Defense.

To put it simply, if there was a skill called Armor Piercing and it gave a bonus to Acc, Perception, and Cut Resistances in Half, the world would be outraged. Furthermore, if there were skills called Bombard and Penetrate and they offered a buff to Dmg and cut Resistances in half, the community would be appalled.

Well, that's how Defense based characters feel when facing Focused Accuracy, Aim and Build Up. These powers cripple defense based characters and debuffs only compound the problem.

In summary, Defensive sets require a bump in PvP. However, the fix isn't a decimal point, it is a GLOBAL CHANGE that requires the addition of new powers or the nerfing of current powers.

Cheers,

SUN

You are correct, it is obvious the problem for Claws is that it's attacks don't gain from the Follow-Up DoT buff. What happens is the lower level attacks drag the average of Claws to the bottom of the peer group, without Follow Up. If you hit BU and use AS or just use your hardest hitting attacks and then you have a long recharge gap for dmg:
BU alone = 80 seconds (or 6+ attack chains)
BU 3 slotted = 45 seconds (or 3+ attack chains)
BU 3 slotted and Hasten = 34 seconds (or 2+ attack chains)

Heck if you use BU for AS, you will gain a dmg. buff on the next two attacks. This GREATLY favors burst-dmg. sets. Comparing EM to Claws, with both having access to BU you can see the discrepancy:

Lets look at EM... the classic burst dmg is (and there are more efficient chains):
ET (12.66 BI), BS (4.556), EP (2.777), and TF (9.889) = 30 BI in about 6.5 seconds

Lets look at Claws (for Stalker - this way we have BU as the control for both sets):
Swipe (1.944), Strike (2.778), Slash (3.778? - testing shows its not much more), Focus (4.556), Eviscerate (4.722) = BI 17.5 in 7.34 seconds

To fix the problem, as I stated above, Claws for Scrappers needs its first three attacks buffed to bring the mean from 3.5 BI to 4.0+ BI. That is the only way Claws will maintain a consistent DoT, not have burst dmg., remain true to thematic origins, and remain competitive witht the peer group.

Cheers,

SUN

"as i already said, the problem people with claws is that it is not Energy Melee or Broadsword. People like burst damage and want big numbers. That's not Claws. So then we get into a discussion like this every few weeks." -Fan Boy
----------------------------------------

This is the problem, you believe that because a set costs less end, it should be less effective in combat. I don't agree and I believe Claws could easily be a set that provides MEDIUM DMG, through quick, efficient attacks. In its present state, especially for the Stalker, it is lacking. To make myself clear, so Fan Boy doesn't attempt to discard any counterpoint as an attempt to rebadge Claws in BS or EM, Claws needs consistency in dmg. starting from its lvl 1 powers.

Lets look at EM... the classic burst dmg is (and there are more efficient chains):
ET (12.66 BI), BS (4.556), EP (2.777), and TF (9.889) = 30 BI in about 6.5 seconds

Lets look at Claws (for Stalker - this way we have BU as the control for both sets):
Swipe (1.944), Strike (2.778), Slash (3.778? - testing shows its not much more), Focus (4.556), Eviscerate (4.722) = BI 17.5 in 7.34 seconds

For giggles, EM could add in Air Superiority or Boxing (or a Power Pool attack) as it's fifth attack and it would have TWICE THE DPS. In addition, this DOES NOT take into consideration that EM has a stackable Disorient in every attack and does Energy Dmg (among the least resisted in the game). Doing energy Dmg. is the equivalent of gaining a +25-30% dmg. bonus, but that's a different discussion. Let's hang with the base numbers.

In order to do the same dmg. in TWICE the time, Claws needs to recycle through all of its attacks TWICE. OK, so Claws has slower attacks, does less damage, and when you repeat the attack set TWICE, you spend more Endurance! 42 Vs. 50 approximately with 1/2 end discount on current Focus and Eviscerate end numbers even).

So, just in case you don't like to read the paragraphs here are the highlights:

--Claws does HALF the DMG. of Energy Melee
--Claws takes TWICE the TIME to do the same Dmg. as Energy Melee
--Claws uses MORE ENDURANCE to do the same Dmg. as Energy Melee
--Claws does mostly Lethal Dmg., while Energy Melee does on average 50% energy / 50% smash.
--Claws has some nice knockdowns, while Energy Melee has stackable disorients in all attacks


NOW, it is evident that a Claws Stalker is UNABLE to deliver more DPS, DOT, or present better DPE numbers in its current form. This might be fine for some people, but I take exception to this imbalance (and I play all forms of stalkers and scrappers). Perhaps, with Scrappers, the numbers are a bit easier to digest because of Follow Up, but for a Stalker the numbers STINK.

How can we preserve the ideaology of fast attacks, modest damage and lower End? Simple, JUST BUFF THE LOWER END ATTACKS.

What do I mean? Simply bump Swipe, Strike, and Slash to even out the damage curve for Claws Stalkers. Quite simply, there shouldn't be one attack under 3.0 BI for claws. Claws needs a mean around 4.0 BI to compete with other sets (NOT IN BURST DMG, but just delevering plain Damage over TIME).

Presently, Claws dmg. mean is around 3.5 BI (per attack), but that number needs to be raised to at least a 4.0 (especially if doing only Lethal Dmg). By buffing the LOWER ATTACKS, this does not create burst dmg. (like hitting TF and ET in 4 seconds for 20+ BI), but it does allow Claws a chance to catch-up over time.

We can do the numbers all day if you want, but the point remains, Claws (for STALKERS) is lacking and not fulfilling the thematic role of either DPE or DOT.

Cheers,

SUN

1. you're the only one saying it has late-game inefficiencies or weaknesses. -Fanboy
------------------------

You've got to be kidding me, I laugh about Claws all the time in my SG/VG. Everyone on our teams snicker about the "special hero" wielding claws.



2. Why should sets be designed around pool powers? They shouldn't and they aren't. -Fanboy
---------------------
Obviously you haven't read the Electric Armor boards lately. Even better, every play a Fire Tanker or a Ninjitsu Stalker?The number one travel power is Super Jump because the Leaping Pool provides protection against knock down. Anyone who is competive in PvE or PvP covers their achilles heel with Power Pools. Come to think of it, almost every stalker in PvP MUST TAKE stealth, grant invis, and/or invis. Why? Because the Power Pools balance the shortcomings of Hide. Come on, to state that the Power Pools don't balance sets is like saying Jack Emmert doesn't like comics.



3. Claws does get a very nice benefit from hasten. -Fan Boy
--------------------
Stop it, you're making me laugh. First off, it is an ARC not a true AOE (just nearby attackers, 2-3 on avg.). Secondly the AOE dmg. is low: a 2.7 BI and a 4.7 BI and no where near as good as Spines at 6.4 BI, 4.0 BI, 3.3 BI AOEs.


4. I strongly disagree that claws is lacking good buffs/debuffs and utility. What other set has a perma dmg buff that is worth more than an SO? -Fan Boy
-----------------------
Um, Super Strength has this nifty power called Rage, have you heard of it? 80% dmg and 50% accuracy.... not too bad, huh. Also, alternating between BU and AIM provides superior benefits to Follow Up with an overlap of only 14 secs. Finally, only Scrappers have Follow-Up, but I personally believe for PvP BU is better anyways.


5. A claws/regen scrapper will not run out of end if slotted right and played correctly.
-------------
Um, any set that is /regen will rarely run out of end if slotted correctly. Come on, the benefits from Claws on the DPE is scale is negligible. You make is sound as if Claws DPE is 50% less than its peers, with the same DPS. Remember to generate the same DPS, Claws must recycle through its attacks multiple times and the Claws attacks, even on the low end are 3.3, 4.5, 5.2, and 13.5. Compared to a real dog like Broad Sword at: 8.5, 5.2, 8.5, and 4.3. The averages are not far off one another, but the dmg. certainly is.


6. -I don't take kindly to being called a sucker either, particularly when you don't have enough experience to back up your claim. -Fan Boy
-------------------
Are you familiar with the term "wanton ignorance." How much time do you have to spend with a dog to know its a dog? Come on, you can't possibly tell me that Claws is even close to its peers in either PvE or PvP. If you feel I haven't shown you enough evidence, please PM me and we can log onto test and I will kindly demonstrate the sucktacular aspects of Claws in either PvE or PvP (lvls 40-50).

Cheers,

SUN

"And claws doesn't need those slots. And claws gets the full benefit of those bonus from level one whereas the others wait till SOs are full slotted. And claws doesn't have to take and slot hasten or stamina or any of those pool powers that are not required at all, giving claws more slots for secondary effects or for defensive slotting." -Fanboy
-------------------------

Having an advantage at lvls 1-24 does not justify late-game inefficiencies or weaknesses. In addition, the benefits gained by Stamina are Hastern are FAR greater than the inherent benefits of Claws.

Stamina UNSLOTTED provides a 25% bonus to end recovery. 3-slotted with SOs that number soars to 50% (an equivalent option to the inherent benefits of Claws). Sure, you could avoid Stamina, but having a 50% increase to Stamina recovery is beneficial to EVERY AT (save Regen and even then some people still take it). Furthermore, HOs basically eliminate any advantages Claws might have, by freeing up even more slots (but that's a different argument).

As for Hasten, the numbers are even more impressive. A 60% increase to recharge, with only a minute of down-time is spectacular. You need approximately two Recharge SOs to match that type of return.

In summary, no one is forced to use Stamina or Hasten, but they do remove the inherent advantages of the Claws set by offering ALL OTHER MELEE SETS access to greater benefits (+recharge and +endurance rec). If there were pool powers that offered +Dmg (above 20%), additional Debuffs, or unresisted dmg features, then Claws could become more competitive within the melee peer group.

However, the truth remains that Claws main bonuses (+recharge and end efficiency) are easily replicated and outclassed, without any external offering (power pools) able to bring Claws up to its peers in dmg, utility, or debuffs. Furthermore, slotting SOs favors Dmg and Acc, while Recharge and Stamina are relegated in importance (both PvE and PvP).

My arguments are not to homogenize Claws, it's to simply illustrate why it is doomed to mediocrity. Hey, a lot of cars are sold each year that look nice, but have average performance. Some people think those buyers are suckers, but most of the suckers are pleased with their purchase. In the end, the press and car magazines can't change the auto industry or the consumers, but the media has an obligation to point out a substandard offering.

Cheers,

SUN

edit- stupid prepositions

So your ideas are to either get rid of the perks that Claws has (20% less end and rchrg) or to make Claws into Spines? -Fanboy
--------------

How is 20% endurance or recharge a true benefit compared to the other sets. My point is, the other sets do more than 20% dmg, offer better debuffs/utility, recharge is nullified by Hasten or slotting one recharge (more than enough slots post ED), and Stamina easily compensates in PvE/PvP.

In comparison, my attacks are all maxed Dmg. in Claws, and I have room for 2 ACC and what... recharge? endurance? don't slot it? The point is, the benefits of Claws has an inherent disadvantage because of power pools and ED (no one has a lack of slots and no in their right mind 3-slots recharge or endurance on dmg. attacks).

After reading some of the feedback and comments on the boards I think the people that play Claws Scrappers/Stalkers are delerious... no not Delerious, more like Raw. To quote Eddie Murphy from Raw:

"This was it. This was the feeling I've
been searching for. I finally made love."

You didn't make love.
It just felt real good. You know why?

Because you waited
five months for it.

If you're starving and somebody
throw you a cracker, you gonna be like this:

"[censored], that's the best cracker
I ever ate in my life!"

"That ain't no regular cracker, was it?
What was that, a Saltine?

"[censored], that was delicious."

"That wasn't no Saltine. That was...
That was a Ritz. That wasn't a Ritz?"

"God, that was the best cracker
I ever ate in my life."

Before I begin, it should be noted that I have experience with Claws (Stalker lvl 32), Energy Melee (Tanker 50, Blaster 50, Stalker 40), Martial Arts (Scrapper 50), and Spines (Stalker 30). In addition, I'd like to preface my statement by stating that all the powersets can be effective and enjoyable. Finally, my argument here should not be construed as pro-villain or pro-hero, since both sides of the law have access to this powerset.

Today's discussion focuses on the deficiencies of the Claws power set.

I played my Claws Stalker on Live for a few hours, copied my Stalker over to Test to game some more, and then respecced to intentionally take the first 3 powers (Swipe, Strike, and Slash). In summary, I was underwhelmed, but I need to explain my position. The animations are nice and the DPS is a little faster, but it is no where near the DPS and/or utility of its peers (EM, MA, and Spines). To be fair, I never would have any problem with any of the Claw's animations, IF THE DAMAGE was commensurate with the activation times.

I understand, for thematic reasons, Claws is supposed to be composed of low-end/quick attacks. However, there is no reason for the set to be anemic. The problem with Claws is that the LOW LEVEL ATTACKS act like other sets LOW LEVEL ATTACKS. Quite simply, if you are going to have a set that is quick and fast, the majority of the attacks should reside around the MEAN of DPS/DPE. If you have low-power attacks and mid-powered attacks, your average is going to reside between mid-to-low. And this doesn't take into consideration the penalty of doing the commonly reisted dmg in the game (Lethal).

For example, other powersets, such as Spines, EM, and MA have have low DPS attacks (LOW LEVEL) and high DPS attack (HIGH LEVEL). However, the lower level attacks of Claws are relatively the same DPS/DPE, but Claw's high level attacks are not competitive with other powerset's high-level DPS/DPE. Furthermore, the utility of Spines (Toxic/Poison Dmg, Holds, -Recharge) or Energy Melee (Energy Dmg, Disorients) or MA (-Spd, Immobilize, Knockback, Disorient), widens this gap even further.

Am I stating that Claws is unplayable? NO

I am stating that any improvement to Claws needs to take a holistic approach, not just speeding up the lowest-level attacks' animation times. There are power-pool attacks (Boxing, Air Superiority) that offer equivalent DPS/DPE to the low-end Claw Attacks. Furthermore, with powers like Hasten and Quickness, plus the prevalence of using Recharge-Enhancements after ED, any power with a recharge time under 20 seconds can easily be chained. At the higher levels, the benefits of Claws quietly fade. Claws is neither the king of any particular category (range, AOE, DPS, utility, debuffs, etc.) nor is it the jack-of-all trades.

So what are the benefits of Claws again? Fast attacks with Low End, Quick Recharges, Knockdown, and lower Activation Times for the lower powers. In my humble opinion, these benefits make the power set different, but less effective than its peers at higher levels. Take a claws scrapper/stalker and engage any OJ target. It took me over 12 shots to take down an OJ Freak Tanker with my Claws Scrapper (using BU+AS as an opener), while the same target can be two-shotted by my EM (AS not necessary), or four-shoted by Spines (using AS). In general combat (no AS), Spines, MA and EM shine just as brightly... they can do a heck of lot more than burst dmg.

In summary, I applaud the DEV TEAM for changing the animations, but please continue to evaluate the ENTIRE powerset (debuffs, dmg-type, DPS of competitive peers, etc.).

QUICK AND CHEAP FIX
Add +1.25 BI to all the Claw Attacks and it might present a compelling argument to take the set besides thematic/graphical reasons.

BETTER IDEA
Add a +1-2 BI DoT to ALL Claw Attacks (represent bleeding) <and> give it the cheesy +5% ACC bonus (redraw time, although minimal, is still present).

Cheers,

SUN

I keep looking at the numbers and reading the reports... the Patron Powers appear to be a bit, um, lame.

I just don't understand how one of the lead Devs (Cuppa) can PUBLICLY state the Villain Patron Powers are STRONGER than the Hero Epic Power Pools. I really question if the Devs understang MMOs, especially their own.

Cheers,

SUN

I know everyone always points an angry finger at Energy Melee, but Electric Melee is just as deadly. A quick look at the big numbers:

----------------
For the record Havok Punch is IDENTICAL to Bone Smasher...
Bone Smaher: 7.22 BI / 1.5 secs Activation / 13.5 endurance
Havok Punch: 7.22 BI / 1.5 secs Activation / 13.5 endurance

-----------------------
Thunderstrike is 7.11 BI of PURE ENERGY DAMAGE. This power is IDENTICAL to Total Focus but it doesn't have the additional 2.2 BI of Smashing Damage. This is more than fair because, Energy doesn't have the attack chain of Electricity. I've played both sets, and without an "external attack" from another powerset (and there aren't too many with 5+ BIs) Electricity can unload a SUPERIOR attack chain for DMG/DPS.

Here we go... (just using the powerset's main powers)
ENERGY
Total Focus 9.88 dmg / 3.3 secs
Bone Smasher 7.22 dmg / 1.5 secs
Energy Punch 5.44 dmg / 0.57 secs
Power Thrust 2.22 dmg / 1.00 secs

Totals: 24.76 dmg / 6.37 secs


ELECTRICITY
Thunder Strike 7.11 dmg / 3.3 secs
Shocking Grasp 4.99 dmg / 1.0 secs
Havok Punch 7.22 dmg / 1.5 secs
Charged Brawl 5.44 / 0.57 secs

Total: 24.76 dmg / 6.37 secs

Hmmm.... that appears to be awfully similar. In addition, Electricity has ANOTHER attack, Electric Fence, which offers a hold, end drain, 2.7 dmg, and 1.17 sec activation time. Furthermore, Electricity offers Stuns, Disorients, Toggle Dropping, Endurance Drains, nifty holds, etc throughout the lineup. Energy only offers knock-back and disorient. And yes, there is equal synergy for each set when it comes to stakcing MAGs.

In summary, perhaps Energy Melee is more popular for "conept reasons," but Electric Melee can bring it just as hard and with more utility.

Cheers,

SUN

1.) Make Archery higher damage than other Blaster sets.
2.) Make Archery attacks 100 meter Range or higher.
3.) Make Archery attacks cause DoT damage from wounding.
--------------------

1) Agreed
2) Agreed
3) Agreed

In summary, the Devs could implement TWO of the THREE suggested changes and it still wouldn't cause envy in the ICE/x community. That should tell you something right there...

Cheers,

SUN

More food for thought as I continue to flip back and forth between my Storm Fender and my TA Fender...

The real problem is every useful TA power is on lay-away... I want to use them more, but they aren't there for me.

Recharges
45secs Poison Gas Arrow
120secs Glue Arrow
120secs Disruption Arrow
180secs Oil Slick Arrow
300secs EMP Arrow


Compared to Storm... Trick Arrow's average recharge times are 200-400% greater! Sure these are different powers, but I'm a hero and I like to USE MY POWERS. Storm's recharges are much faster (even if you ignore the bottom 4 powers):

Recharges
8 secs Gale
4 secs O2
10 secs Snow Storm
15 secs Steamy Mist
60 secs Freezing Rain
10 secs Hurricane
45 secs Thunder Clap
60 secs Tornado
90 secs Lightning Storm

Yeah, I know, can't compare apples to oranges, but I really think the biggest flaw for a set wtih NO HEALING, is that none of its powers are readily available. It's like you wait for every bloody power you need (even if it's inferior or not very effective).

Cheers,

SUN

While you're at it...
------------------------------------------------------
OK here's the data for the home audience.

GLUE ARROW______________SNOW STORM
LVL 2 Trick Arrow___________LVL 2 Storm Summoning
Range: 60_________________Range: 80
Activation: 2.67 secs________Activation: 2.03 secs
Cost: 7.8__________________Cost: .47762
Duration: 30 secs____________Duration: infinite (toggle)
Recharge: 120 secs___________Recharge: 10 secs
Effect: -Recharge, -Spd________Effect: -Recharge, -Spd


Ok, quick analysis...

First off, why the heck does it take only 10 seconds for Storm Summoning to recharge, while it takes 2 minutes for Glue Arrow???

Secondly, why the heck does Glue Arrow have a longer activation time, have no clear advantage to end cost, and have shorter range???

Finally, why the heck is Snow Storm infinite in duration toggle, while Glue Arrow has 30 seconds of fame. In retrospect, without Stamina or any End Reduction SOs, Snow Storm could cost 400% more END before it outstrips the BASE END Recovery.

In summary, we all know Trick Arrow is a bit weak, but this is unreal. This set needs to be thrown a bone and this is just one example of how bad this set really is (especially a set without healing). Sure, I love my Stormie, but when I started my Bowman, the first thing I said was, "[censored] is up with the recharge on Glue Arrow? Don't the Devs realize this same power is available ALL the time on my Stormie???"

Oh yes, I know every power should be different, but these two powers are the same, except one is available all the time and can last an infinite duration, while the other is um, different.

Cheers,

SUN

THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

At LVL 50, my controller not only can unload incredible holds (that stack), but can also debuff (stack as well) my opponents into blobs of jello AND unload a great amount of damage.

At LVL 50, my scrapper can unload incredible amounts of damage and also has great survivability (full status protection).

At LVL 50, my tanker can unload a great amount of damage and has incredible survivability (full status protection).

At LVL 50, my blaster can unload a great amount of damage and has a fair amount of survivability (but no status protection).

At the end of the day blasters are at the bottom of the food-chain in PvE, because they aren't needed. Why aren't they needed? SIMPLE: because Holds and Debuffs stack. Because Holds and Debuffs STACK, Fenders and Trollers reign supreme in both GROUP PvP and PvE. .

***If you doubt my words Statesman, please ask your Dev team to assemble a diversified 6-8 man team and meet me on Pinnacle... my Troller/Fender group will change your mind in just 20 minutes of play.***

The problem isn't necessarily the balance of ATs, it is the global mechanics of holds, buffs, and debuffs. These powers Must Not STACK to the present degree that they do.

Why take an AT that does 15-20% more damage, when one debuff can make up that difference? Even without the debuffs, the stacking holds, buffs, heals, and pets make the argument even easier.

Seriously, have you even seen containment, fulcrum shift, and epic attacks in group use? Even better, take a look at multiple applications of speed boost, fulcrum shift, pets, containment, and aoe attacks... IT IS BROKEN. There is a reason OTHER MMOs have a thing called diminishing returns or redundant disqaulifiers! Hello, is anyone home?

Cheers,

SUN

Neutra, your solution appears to be the copy-paste command for powers that work and powers that don't (Example: replace X power to equal BoneSmasher's BI). Before you begin to make global changes you really need to look at what each set offers, besides damage (holds, utility, etc.).

Off the top of my head I disagree with:

"Havok Punch – Bring up to BI of Bonesmasher. When people think damage they shouldn't just think Energy. Change requires changing some numbers."
----------------
For the record Havok Punch is IDENTICAL to Bone Smasher...
Bone Smaher: 7.22 BI / 1.5 secs Activation / 13.5 endurance
Havok Punch: 7.22 BI / 1.5 secs Activation / 13.5 endurance

"Thunder Strike – Bring up BI to a level between Bonesmasher and Total Focus. It shouldn't be Total Focus level because it comes earlier, can disorient and can do an AoE Knockback. When people think damage, they shouldn't just think Energy. Change requires changing some numbers and testing."
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Thunderstrike is 7.11 BI of PURE ENERGY DAMAGE. This power is IDENTICAL to Total Focus but it doesn't have the additional 2.2 BI of Smashing Damage. This is more than fair because, Energy doesn't have the attack chain of Electricity. I've played both sets, and without an "external attack" from another powerset (and there aren't too many with 5+ BIs) Electricity can unload a SUPERIOR attack chain for DMG/DPS.

Here we go...
ENERGY
Total Focus 9.88 dmg / 3.3 secs
Bone Smasher 7.22 dmg / 1.5 secs
Energy Punch 5.44 dmg / 0.57 secs
Power Thrust 2.22 dmg / 1.00 secs

Totals: 24.76 dmg / 6.37 secs


ELECTRICITY
Thunder Strike 7.11 dmg / 3.3 secs
Shocking Grasp 4.99 dmg / 1.0 secs
Havok Punch 7.22 dmg / 1.5 secs
Charged Brawl 5.44 / 0.57 secs

Total: 24.76 dmg / 6.37 secs

Hmmm.... that appears to be awfully similar.... duh. In addition, Electricity has ANOTHER attack, Electric Fence, which offers a hold, end drain, 2.7 dmg, and 1.17 sec activation time. Furthermore, Electricity offers Stuns, Disorients, Toggle Dropping, Endurance Drains, nifty holds, etc throughout the lineup. Energy only offers some knock-back and disorient.

At the end of the day, Electricity is the melee king for secondaries. End of discussion. And if you wish to talk some more, please take a look at the incredible utility Electricity has to hold/contain a foe. Are both sets good? Yes. But Electricity can bring it harder than Energy when it comes to melee damage and have BETTER utility with holds/stuns/endo drain.

I don't even want to bother with the rest of your analysis since it is mostly biased opinion and nothing to do with data/stats.

Cheers,

SUN

Fewest moves:

1) Make all Blaster primary attacks have range of 80-100.

2) Remove the delay on Snipe and make it a normal attack with a slightly longer recycle (20 secs).

3) On the Secondary side, transform one of the "melee" attacks from each power into a ranged attack (80-100 range).

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Three moves.... check.

Cheers,

SUN



PS-

4) Change nukes from 1-time all-or-nothing propositions, into useable AOE powers that can effeiciently be used (shorter timer, slightly less power, less end drain) in combat. -this is only an option, since many people like they way nukes work now... but it would make for enjoyable blasting (IMHO).

This really needs to be addressed.

Cheers,

SUN