Official Thread: Burn Changes in Feb. 13th Update
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2007-02-13 11:38 in Developers' Corner
I've got a fire/ tank and a /fire brute. I'm fine with the change.
Be well, people of CoH.
This just prompted me to move around a few slots on my Fire/Fire Brute to stick some recharge in Burn. I don't feel like running the numbers (I'm sure someone already has) but with 3 recharges, Burn seems to recharge pretty damn close to as quickly as it was before the change. Sure, I'll miss the second ACC SOs in Blazing Aura, Boxing, and Fire Sword, but not that much.
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I've got a fire/ tank and a /fire brute. I'm fine with the change.
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Same with one caveat, I'd like an AoE Immob for my Tanker.
That is all.
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So I guess the fear component was unchanged.
Course not. The fear was added to increase the damage mitigation of the fiery aura set.
Be well, people of CoH.
Bwhahahahahaha!
Oh god, that was good. Now tell me the one about the Priest and the Rabbi walking into a bar =D
You know, normally I'd be all over a thread like this like a hot bag of chips.
But 2 weeks ago, I dropped Burn for the last time to make room for Tough.
Suffice to say: For tankers, especially the tankers able to REALLY leverage it, this makes burn much more viable. With my previous slotting, burn would have been up every 12 seconds, and every 9 seconds under Hasten. It would have become part and parcel of my AOE attack chain.
I might eventually toy with dropping Fire Blast for it, but right now my single target damage is already suffering.
I feel bad for Brutes, and yet, thank them for demonstrating that even with an in-built AOE immob, a 40 second timer on burn is unnecessary. Good luck with the change, hope it doesn't hash your play up too badly. ; . ;
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Well, I played with it a bit with my stone/fire brute, and it doesn't seem to be that much of a painful hit. I'll miss the option when I've got a couple of dominators behind me, but it's still up fast enough to be useful for my personal AoE combos.
No change as far as my tank is concerned. The "Flee" effect is still detrimental to the role of a tank. Shame its linked to one of my status protection powers.
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Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
neither my 45 tank or my 46 Brute has the "run away from from me" power in their builds. Is this supposed to make me think about taking it?
205723: A Different DESTINY
When Soldiers of Arachnos got their names added to the Destiny List, Longbow managed to get a copy of the list and began rounding villains up. But one name on the list shocked them...
Only thing that ticks me off is that I have to burn a respec on my brute to get some slots in.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Amen to that. You would figure a change this big would come with a freebie.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
As an old Fire/ Tanker, it's pretty much too little too late. I gave up on Burn a long time ago and never looked back, too much bad blood. I've been upset ever since CoV told me that Brutes already had a faster Burn recharge. Sorry you guys had to be hit, but I'm glad to see something finally happen to make the power play the same for everyone.
/too tired to care anymore
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As an old Fire/ Tanker, it's pretty much too little too late. I gave up on Burn a long time ago and never looked back, too much bad blood.
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QFT.
The fear affect is the MAIN issue with Burn and since that is not being addressed then for me its still a useless power.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I don't like this change on my /fire brute because I don't feel burn is worth spending 5 slots on. Previously, I took the burn power and it worked great with just the base slot +2 additional slots for a total of 3 damage. However this new change would force me to use 3 additional slots just to get close to the performance I had before. The power is not worth that so I respecced it out.
Can Fiery Aura brutes get their immob protection from another power please? Having it in Fire Shield or Plasma Shield would be great, but forcing us to take this power solely for the immob protection is not very nice especially considering this nerfing and the power's poor performance as a damage tool.
Finally, this "power standardization" is a total crock because the power still isn't the same amongst all the ATs: blasters don't get immob protection from Burn yet the power got nerfed for them too. AFAIK blasters don't have a "-status protection" AT modifier...
Edited to add: note that I had to use a respec to fix my character due to this change.
Um, guess I'm late to the party, but WHY was this changed? Was it felt Tanks were underpowered with a longer recharge? Did Blasters need a nerf? Or were both of those reasons ignored just to make the power more standardized?
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Um, guess I'm late to the party, but WHY was this changed? Was it felt Tanks were underpowered with a longer recharge? Did Blasters need a nerf? Or were both of those reasons ignored just to make the power more standardized?
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It's basically just an excuse to buff the Fire tanks because they under perform, consequences for brutes and blasters be danged.. "Power Standardization" is a complete lie considering there are TONS of powers that are not standardized like this still out there.
Check: all hero epic hold powers vs the ones in sets. Examples:
Blaster flame mastery Char is a 16s recharge vs controller/dominator Fire Control Char is a 8s recharge.
Scrapper Weapon Mastery Web Grenade is a 8s recharge vs blaster/corrupter Web Grenade at a 4s recharge
Etc, etc, etc...
The other MAJOR example of this is the blaster melee attacks vs brute/tank/stalker melee attacks: examples:
Blaster Bone Smasher is a 14s recharge vs Tank/Brute/Stalker Bone Smasher at a 8s recharge
Blaster charged brawl (10s) and Havoc Punch (14s) vs Brute Charged Brawl (3s) and Havoc Punch (6s)
Blaster Fire Sword (10s) vs Brute/Tank Fire Sword (6s)
Etc, etc, etc...
Did I mention these attacks have a much lower endurance usage for tanks/brutes/stalkers than the blaster counterparts? HAHAHAHA Jokes on you blasters!!!!! (admittedly the blaster attacks have a higher BI value). And I'm sure there's tons more examples out there...
Power Standardization my [censored] it's just transparent favoritism OR selective application of an arbitrary rule.
(All numbers from here and Sherksilver's hero builder.)
Epic sets are completely different than primary/secondary sets, and should NEVER match IMO (that's why they're not pri/sec), so that part of your argument is a moot point.
The other examples, though, comparing primary/secondary sets to primary/secondary sets, is valid...and could very well be looked at if they want to do some more standardization.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Epic sets are completely different than primary/secondary sets, and should NEVER match IMO (that's why they're not pri/sec), so that part of your argument is a moot point.
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I don't think you should write off that part so quickly because none of us (non-devs) know what is intended with "power standardization" and the patch notes don't say anything other than giving it as an excuse for the change. The only dev reply on the issue that I can find right now says nothing either: Castle. The only thing we "know" is that the devs supposedly think that all powers should have the same recharge times across all ATs.
And they probably won't reply to this thread because the facts speak for themselves, ie "Power Standardization" = Excuse, not a legitimate effort to fix powers.
Don't let some nebulous idea of "Power Standardization" that's never been defined and never really even talked about by a dev brainwash you into thinking this is a real paradigm of CoX game balance.
I think your forum name is pretty apt at this point.
I'm sorry that I don't feel the need to doomspeak over everything the devs do/say/don't do/don't say.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Check: all hero epic hold powers vs the ones in sets.
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Epics are weaker than their primary counterparts, in general. The amount by which they are weaker has, in my estimation, been standardized.
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The other MAJOR example of this is the blaster melee attacks vs brute/tank/stalker melee attacks: examples:
Blaster Bone Smasher is a 14s recharge vs Tank/Brute/Stalker Bone Smasher at a 8s recharge
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If you look closer, you'll see that all those powers obey the same rules as far as damage per endurance and damage per cycle time. Those rules are consistent within an AT and also across ATs once you take into account the damage scale for the ATs you are comparing.
Again, in my estimation these powers are standardized.
Now, there are some powers that are not balanced by this system. Mostly, they involve non-attack powers where there are only indirect ways to compare them (is the damage component in Consume enough to justify its lengthy recharge relative to Power Sink?). There are a few exceptions, and IMHO, those powers are affecting game balance and people just haven't figured it out yet. When they do, I am guessing Castle will have to make another round of changes.
The people that make use of those powers will moan when it happens, but IMHO the changes will be justified and should have been done when the powers were first designed.
- Protea
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
I would just like to point out that Blasters and Brutes have Burn in thier Secondary sets while Tankers have it in thier Primary.
There are almost no powers shared among ATs which are as good or better as a Secondary than as a Primary.
Burn is a mess...
The recharge does nothing to fix a power that was gutted, tweaked, and left to rot for 17 months.
The real fix doesn't involve the recharge timer, but any veteran player could tell you that.
Keep trying Dev Team and think holistically in the future...
Burn is recycling status protection and damage in a positional delivery (jump/run) that precludes flight, with a chaos effect. Does this sound reasonable?
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As an old Fire/ Tanker, it's pretty much too little too late. I gave up on Burn a long time ago and never looked back, too much bad blood.
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QFT.
The fear affect is the MAIN issue with Burn and since that is not being addressed then for me its still a useless power.
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A little late but what the heck...
Burn rocks. I love opening with Taunt/Whirling Axe/Burn and then letting my team have at 'em. Yes, the fear element is stupid, I agree. However, it makes it a bit challenging to play and while they are feared they still aren't directing their attentions to my teammates. It doesnt scatter them that much and I can get the aggro back if my team hasn't killed them by that time. It is a shame that some folks are so bitter they don't see the usefulness of Burn and just emotionally discard it and stalk off in a huff into a corner to pout.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
With game version 13.20070122.4T that went live on February 13th, 2007, the following change went in to the various Archetype "Burn" powers:
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Burn: Normalized all versions of 'Burn' to now have a recharge time of 25 seconds. This is a reduction for Tankers, and an increase for Brutes and Blasters.
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Please use this thread to discuss this change and give your feedback.
To see the entire list of changes included in this game version, please visit the Patch Notes..
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