Youse gotta wait for me to put up Darkest Night. You'd only have to take 2/5 of the alpha, and then with Fearsome Stare that should go down to badly-aimed popcorn tossing.
I will reserve final judgement until I actually experience the content. I'm just voicing my initial concerns.
------- Skip down if you just want to see my offered solution. -------
I'd like to share an example of problems meshing conceptual accuracy with Patron Powers for my highest level villain, Commandant Nongratis.
Level 30, Mercenary/Traps Mastermind.
Build Guide as follows:
1 - !Soldiers (Accuracy), !Web Grenade (Accuracy)
2 - !Caltrops (Recharge)
3 - Soldiers (Accuracy), Soldiers (Accuracy)
4 - !Triage Beacon (Recharge)
5 - Triage Beacon (Recharge), Triage Beacon (Recharge)
6 - !Equip Mercenary (Recharge)
7 - Soldiers (Defense Debuff), Triage Beacon (Health)
8 - !Hurdle (Jump Height)
9 - Triage Beacon (Health), Triage Beacon (Health)
10 - !Acid Mortar (Recharge)
11 - Acid Mortar (Recharge), Acid Mortar (Recharge)
12 - !Spec Ops (Accuracy)
13 - Acid Mortar (Accuracy), Acid Mortar (Accuracy)
14 - !Health (Health)
15 - Acid Mortar (Defense Debuff), Spec Ops (Accuracy)
16 - !Force Field Generator (Defense)
17 - Force Field Generator (Defense), Force Field Generator (Defense)
18 - !Maneuvers (Endurance Cost Reducer)
19 - Maneuvers (Defense), Maneuvers (Defense)
20 - !Stamina (Endurance Mod)
21 - Stamina (Endurance Mod), Stamina (Endurance Mod)
22 - !Poison Trap (Recharge)
23 - Poison Trap (Recharge), Poison Trap (Recharge)
24 - !Tactics (Endurance Cost Reducer)
25 - Tactics (Tohit Buff), Tactics (Tohit Buff)
26 - !Commando (Accuracy)
27 - Soldiers (Defense Debuff), Soldiers (Defense Debuff)
28 - !Seeker Drones (Recharge)
29 - Seeker Drones (Recharge), Seeker Drones (Recharge)
30 - !Assault (Endurance Cost Reducer)
31 - Seeker Drones (Accuracy), Seeker Drones (Accuracy), Seeker Drones (Tohit Debuff)
32 - !Tactical Upgrade (Recharge)
33 - Tactical Upgrade (Recharge), Tactical Upgrade (Recharge), Maneuvers (Defense)
34 - Tactics (Tohit Buff), Commando (Accuracy), Commando (Accuracy)
35 - !Trip Mine (Recharge)
36 - Trip Mine (Recharge), Trip Mine (Recharge), Trip Mine (Damage)
37 - Trip Mine (Damage), Trip Mine (Damage), Spec Ops (Accuracy)
38 - !Detonator (Recharge)
39 - Detonator (Recharge), Detonator (Recharge), Detonator (Damage)
40 - Detonator (Damage), Detonator (Damage), Web Grenade (Accuracy)
Build explained via roleplay:
She is a 30-something year old woman who has been doing whatever it takes to remain vital and vigorous, but she focuses most of her attention on training and maintaining her Army, specifically her Personal Retinue (the 6 Henchmen). She's a noncombatant, but she gets a "kick" out of punching people in the face occasionally. She excels in leadership and manipulation, and via a high-jacked satellite, can recall a number of simple devices to her position to help turn the tide in battle. She does not carry a gun, though she could operate it without trouble, she's much too busy commanding her troops and maintaining her traps.
Due to how she was originally incarcerated in the Zig, and due to a number of events since escaping, she has become incredibly adverse to magic, especially that involving death and undeath (an undead hero lead the team which arrested her, and the zombie of her first "friendly-fire" victim nearly killed her). The only way she would work for Ghost Widow is if she were promised lots of money and no obligations to stick around after payment. Commandant Nongratis would absolutely NOT, under any circumstances, allow Ghost Widow to "bless" her. Even if hammer-drunk, the Commandant would be too afraid.
Scirocco may look appealing to the Commandant since hes a man with a pulse, but ultimately she'd refuse his power as well. She's sadistic enough to enjoy electrocuting people, but the thought of that power coming from a magical source is appalling to her. (Taking the power out of context, saying it's a device is also unacceptable. She's still a noncombatant. I could see her taking the Armour, but that doesn't undo the fact that it's magical and from Scirocco).
I was hoping Black Scorpion would offer the Patron choice for Commandant Nongratis, but after seeing that mace, I know the Commandant wouldn't be caught dead with that thing. It's gaudy as hell and SCREAMS "Arachnos pawn". If it had been more subtle, she might have accepted it. And again, shes a noncombatant. I suppose the webbing could work, but she already uses her own grenades. I don't know what the Scorpion Shield will look like, so it may be an option.
Finally, Mako. Aside from the fact that I can't see ANY excuse for Spirit Sharks, this might actually be the best option for the Commandant. As I stated earlier, she'll do whatever it takes to remain vital and vigorous, include injecting herself with a number of mutagenic cocktails. She's already got a few accidental by-products from a few attempts at "perfecting" her body, including an olfactory system more powerful than a blood hound's and a sort of shark-like frenzy instinctual impulse when she gets the scent of blood (which is easy with her super-nose. This makes for some fun roleplay sessions). If Mako's powers didn't seem so magical, he'd definitely be the right Patron for the Commandant (especially considering what the Commandant knows about Mako's bedding habits). She likes him, thinks he's kind of cute in a blood-thirsty mutant monstrosity way, or at least she likes what she knows about him. I could probably explain her getting Chum Spray as another by-product of further mutagenic experimentation (and it would go GREAT with her current biological state: pregnant). The Mako armour power is also an option, though I'd have to get a look at it.
This leaves me with no option from Ghost Widow, one potential option from each Scirocco and Black Scorpion, and two potential options from Mako. I've placed my current build under the test of fire in PvP zones, and virtually the only thing that can "pwn" me in a one-on-one so far has been high Accuracy/Damage Blasters and Scrappers. I've taken out Defenders and Controllers with no effort, Tankers with lots of patience, other Masterminds in the Arena, and recently I fought two Brutes and a Corruptor who were teamed together in Warburg, and beat them. HOWEVER, with the addition of these powers, it changes the dynamic of PvP against other villains, and I fear that I will not be as powerful as someone who has no issues about power-building their character without consideration of concept or theme. Barring that the story arcs don't clash with the Commandant's personal beliefs, my options are limited.
Story arcs clashing? Yes, that's also important. I'm very true to my characters. Right up to the point of refusing missions from contacts if my character can't justify taking that mission. Yes, this has made levelling up very slow. I've spent over 800 hours already and I just hit 30, but frankly: I have more fun knowing my character is conceptually accurate than power levelling.
I don't expect the Devs to tailor the game specifically to me, and it's true I could stop being so "hardcore" about the issue. However, there are three sets that are essentially magic in origin and one that is technological. This seems to me to have been a poor choice or an oversight.
I think Mako's set should be retooled almost entirely to make it more akin to the Chum Spray power (can't wait to see someone accidentally forget the "H") and make his powers a definite Mutant origin.
And though the Mu lightning powers are undoubtably cool, I think some Natural/ninjitsu-ish powers from Scirocco would be appropriate.
------- Solution? -------
Here's an option: multiple sets from each Patron.
Yes, it'll be a lot more work and a lot more hours for the Devs, but I'm not asking for it right away. It could be FUI8 or FUI9 content. I actually doubt I'll even make it to the post-40 content, I'm not here to level up, after all.
BUT, here's how I think it could play out:
After reading up on the Patron powers and choosing which Patron you wish to serve, you are offered choices of which mission arc you wish to take.
For instance, Scirocco.
Your villain speaks to Scirocco and he tells you of two problems he has. One is dealing with a magical threat, and in choosing this arc you will unlock the Mu Mastery powers. The other arc leads you against Malta or something, which unlocks a different Scirocco Patron set, one with powers like Focussed Accuracy, Conserve Power, and Power Boost (this will also offer those players who are complaining about the balance issue what they want).
Or, for example, Mako.
Your villain speaks to Mako and he lets you know about some Red Coral he wants, but also mentions a certain Paragon Mutant who's been messing with his "import/export" business. If you go and collect the Coral, you will unlock the Leviathan Mastery. If you deal with the hero, you'll be exposed to some mutagenic compound which enables you to boost your Recovery or Regeneration, or shoot poisonous darts from your tongue.
This could also offer the option to Respec out of a Patron set in a limited way. You wouldn't be able to change Patrons, but you could Respec into a different set from that particular Patron.
What do you folks think of that solution? Can anyone see anything wrong with it aside from giving the Devs more work?
words words words
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The only real issue i see is that many peple mya have a hard time making one of the pools fit with a current character concept. I mean we have almost nothing water related in game and then all of a sudden we are tossing sharks at people. Don't get me wrong, im all for a good shark tossing, it was just never in the cards before.
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Absolutely.. because most of the villains in the comics use the same basic themes. Shark tossing being the most important one..
Magneto, Venom, Bullseye,Doctor Doom.. all legendary shark tossers. And Galactus.. whew boy were those sharks BIG!
I'm not really surprised here.. I think that Cryptic missed the boat on the whole comic theme thing.. more like they're swimming
along side.
Not saying you can't have fun.. just saying I don't get why this game isn't a 9 or a 10 instead of a 6 or 7.
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[The purpose of these pools is to help fill an AT's shortcommings (brutes get ranged attacks, for example). They don't expand your current powers, but that's the whole point - to give an AT more variety.
Personally, the art is great and the powers are what I was expecting them to be (the villain version of APPs). Can't wait to see what they can do.
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Is every single APP exactly the same as every other APP? If the point is variety, then why all the sameness? Every MM patron pool is exactly the same as every other MM patron pool with different graphics and damage types.
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Actually the APPs are the same in a different way.
With APPs, each AT has a specific APP pool. All the tanks have to choose from the same APPs, all the blasters, etc. Tanks, for example, can choose between 4-5 different APPs, but the powers are more or less similar with minor differences. (some ranged attacks and holds for tanks, for example).
Now, with PPPs, you can choose which Patron from whom you want tutilege. Brutes, for example, can choose between 4 PPPs, but the powers are more or less similar with minor differences. (some ranged attacks and holds for brutes, for example).
Hence, it's pretty much the same for villains as it is heroes, probably for the sake of game balance, especially in PvP.
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I fear that I will not be as powerful as someone who has no issues about power-building their character without consideration of concept or theme.
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I agree with you, although I must say this isn't anything new to COH. It's always been true that if you wanted a really "uber" character you had to be either VERY flexible about concept, or ignore it entirely. I have friends who do both.
I do neither. I stick with concept. If it hoses me, retire the character. So far it's never gimped me to the point of a character being unplayable, but it's definitely made it so I won't go near open PVP, because I know I'd get crushed by power-builds.
Luckily, I've never liked PVP anyway. I'm a cooperative, not competitive, player.
I think the main problem here is that although the whole game has always been like this, the effects and powers have been generalized for the most part... So you weren't forced to go completely out of concept to take a power set. Pool powers are all generalized (could flight be any more generic?), for example. They don't really "look like" anything and they could work for almost any concept.
The patron pools are the most specific and least generalized powers in the game to date. That makes them much harder to explain away easily. You can't realistically explain away Ghost Widow's powers, example, as a technological invention, the way you could explain hover or flight as an "antigrav belt" (I've done that). Most of the other powers are the same -- the Arachnos mace for instance. If you don't want to be whipping one of those bad boys around for whatever reason, the whole set is out the window.
I'm not really sure why the devs went this way on this one. The only thing I can come up with is that they just don't believe most people have a strong enough character concept that it'll matter one way or the other to us what the epic pool effects are like. They might be right about that for most people.
They ain't right about it for me. I'm not taking any of these powers on any of my characters, unless they end up looking/acting WAY different than their current descriptions have me picturing them. I think I'll be able to do the "content" anyway (quests to unlock all the patron powers or what have you), so as long as I'm not barred from content for refusing to take a patron pool, I don't care that much. It is rather disappointing to look at them all and hate EVERYTHING though... it's a shame there couldn't be at least one rather-generalized one for those of us a bit more married to our concepts.
/sigh
F
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With APPs, each AT has a specific APP pool. All the tanks have to choose from the same APPs, all the blasters, etc. Tanks, for example, can choose between 4-5 different APPs, but the powers are more or less similar with minor differences. (some ranged attacks and holds for tanks, for example).
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This...isn't true.
The powers in the tank APPs can be wildly different from each other. Let's compare Energy Mastery to Earth Mastery, for example.
Energy:
Conserve Power (End discount click)
Focused Acuracy (Acc buff toggle)
Laser Beam Eyes (ST energy ranged)
Energy Torrent (Cone energy/smashing attack + knockback)
Earth:
Stone Prison (ST immob)
Salt Crystals (AoE sleep)
Fossilize (ST hold)
Stalagmites (AoE disorient)
How are these anywhere near similar?
On the other hand, let's compare Soul Mastery with Mu Mastery. Though it won't matter in the long run because all of them are exactly the same for Brutes except for animation, damage type, and cones sometimes being exchanged for AoEs.
Soul:
Gloom (ST dark ranged)
Soul Tentacles (Cone immob)
Dark Obliteration (AoE dark attack)
Summon Widow (Pet)
Mu:
Mu Lightning (ST energy ranged)
Electrifying Fences (AoE immob)
Ball Lightning (AoE energy attack)
Summon Striker (Pet)
Does this not seem wrong to you? Even if you ignore the complaints about being locked into the choice, even if you ignore the complaints about the PPPs not fitting the character concepts, there are still legitimate concerns. Frankly, the sets themselves seem half-[censored] compared to what the heroes get.
In the end, my characters will actually benefit from these pools, since they kind of have what I would have wanted for them anyway, but I can still see how flawed they are in both design and execution.
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Does this not seem wrong to you? Even if you ignore the complaints about being locked into the choice, even if you ignore the complaints about the PPPs not fitting the character concepts, there are still legitimate concerns. Frankly, the sets themselves seem half-[censored] compared to what the heroes get.
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No need for vulgarities. And yes, I now see your point. It's really my mistake for not having the time to thoroughly read the descriptions of the powers (too much work in RL atm 
)
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Awry can you tell us what power the woman surrounded by strands of light (last picture down) is using? I'm hoping it's one of Ghost Widows... basically I'm wondering how different the power animations are from their base power... I like swirly light but not so much the shadow and darkness that comes with the dark powers.
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Not sure exactly which one - but that is a Ghost Widow power.
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I am guessing according to the video they had of Statesman, Posi, Manticore, Synapse vs Lord Recluse, Ghost Widow, Scoripon, Mako when they did the demo/release thing for CoV that it's her Hold Power. The animation she does is exactly how it looks in that picture.
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Mako is a Coralax though.... (or a Hybrid, or whatever) they seem pretty magic-ish (remember the Calystix arc?)
Mako is a mutant, not a Coralax.
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Barracuda is a Coralax though 
I don't think i'm asking for much when i say corruptors need a melee attack or 2 in the patrons. I thought the reason for epics or patrons was to make up for what the AT was missing. I don't want a pet if i did i would have play a dominator. I don't see any diversity in the patrons, it seems like they just threw some stuff together not putting any thought into it so they could come out with +40 content. Not to mention the brute took it in the shorts also with no power like FA, i'm not saying every set should have it, but every set shouldn't look like a mirror image of each other. Please take away the brute pet and replace it with something useful.
Just my 2 cents.
Shadowbain 50 scrap D/D/F
Omega Strike 49 tank F/E
Prime Objective 46 Nrgy/Elec Blaster/Force
Raw fuzion 40 PB
Chaotic Fist 40 Nrgy/Nrgy Brute
Black Tundra 50 Ice/Ice/Dark corruptor
Imperalax 20 Psi/Rad Def
ThundaClapper 50 SS/Elec Brute/Mu
Omega Onslaught 30 Ice/Nrgy Dom
For me, the thing about putting melee attacks into the corruptor APPs is that it's too blaster-like. I don't want my corruptor to be blaster-lite. I wish they had put in more self-buffing type stuff. Soul Drain was a great choice, for instance. Stuff like Boost Range and Power Boost and a breakfree-like power.
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For me, the thing about putting melee attacks into the corruptor APPs is that it's too blaster-like. I don't want my corruptor to be blaster-lite. I wish they had put in more self-buffing type stuff. Soul Drain was a great choice, for instance. Stuff like Boost Range and Power Boost and a breakfree-like power.
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Power Boost is a bit overpowered for a Corrupter, but I agree with you in principle. There are some nice self buffs out there like Quickness and soft controls like Oppressive Gloom. Ah well.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Mako is a Coralax though.... (or a Hybrid, or whatever) they seem pretty magic-ish (remember the Calystix arc?)
Mako is a mutant, not a Coralax.
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Barracuda is a Coralax though
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Correction: Barracuda is a Coralax-Hybrid* though
Fun fact: Barracuda is pretty obvlious to her past.
I doubt she has anything to do with Mako's ties with being able to command Coralax-Hybrids. IMO, Mako probably is in league with a real Coralax. Mako probably promises protection of their coral city from the filthy humans.. or something.
I want to state my opinion of the PPP's in a succint manner.
They suck!
App's are far superior and the heroes will now Rule high level pvp.
They're welcome to it.
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A pet? Most doms already GET a pet.
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I wouldn't mind a pet on my Mind/Psi
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
You're a Mind/Psi. Everything you see is potentially a pet.
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They're welcome to it.
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Click, consider our amazing PvE.
You, Viscount, and I could rule the PvP zones. And perhaps Recluse's Victory!
Speaking of which, [censored] GO ONLINE! NOW! 
Please discuss the merits of Chum Spray....thanks
It uses too much endurance for the effect.
Wait, what are we talking about again?
@Mindshadow
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Please discuss the merits of Chum Spray....thanks
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Chum spray or to Chum as they call it is to let loose a ferociously chummy substance from one's mouth that upon spraying chumizes the enemy into submission by the mere sound of its name. It is the opitimy of villany and the sole reason that villains patron pools suck compared to heros. The devs had to balance it that way, if we get chum spray then everything else must be wattered down to compensate. Now shut up and enjoy your chum.
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Please discuss the merits of Chum Spray....thanks
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It's basically amazing.
and I always have to take the alpha unless V's there because of ice slick!