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Hey, here's a novel idea! If you don't like the powers/don't want to be an Arachnos flunky, don't do the missions! Just sayin'.
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I've got a better idea! How about we get powers without being flunky the way the heroes do! Just sayin'.
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How would you get the powers? Who would train you in these new ways? They're villains, they wont do soemthing for nothing.
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I can beat up the patrons and take their powers. Simple, really.
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im worried!!! No stam recovery for brutes except that one that drains from a foe. Im a SS/DA. I need more stam. I hope this isnt offical or im in for a world of hurt. Lord help us!
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Can you think of anything outside of the buff sets (like Recovery Aura out of empathy, Accelerated Metabolism from Radiation) besides Quick Recovery from regen that doesn't require a hit on an enemy to recover endurence?
I can't. And usually they have a higher base accuracy anyway.
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It is called conserver power which tanks and scrappers have access to.
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Which isn't stamina recovery - small distinction, but it is there.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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im worried!!! No stam recovery for brutes except that one that drains from a foe. Im a SS/DA. I need more stam. I hope this isnt offical or im in for a world of hurt. Lord help us!
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Can you think of anything outside of the buff sets (like Recovery Aura out of empathy, Accelerated Metabolism from Radiation) besides Quick Recovery from regen that doesn't require a hit on an enemy to recover endurence?
I can't. And usually they have a higher base accuracy anyway.
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It is called conserver power which tanks and scrappers have access to.
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Which isn't stamina recovery - small distinction, but it is there.
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Conserver power cuts the cost of all powers in half, so for brutes and stalkers which have toggles in WOULD increase recovery rate.
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Hey, here's a novel idea! If you don't like the powers/don't want to be an Arachnos flunky, don't do the missions! Just sayin'.
I've got a better idea! How about we get powers without being flunky the way the heroes do! Just sayin'.
How would you get the powers? Who would train you in these new ways? They're villains, they wont do soemthing for nothing.
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..the same way heroes do... by having 40 levels of prior experience. Heck, by your logic, how do you get any powers other than the two you start out with?
The problem is, they wanted to make picking a patron a majo thing, but they didn't want any 1 to be more powerful. Thus, they lock you into one patron, and the powers are nearly identical.
On my scrapper, I have 3 very different flavors of APP, 4 with my defender (5?), and I can change them with each respec. How is this equitible?
Initial impression of patron power pools is that they're kinda... undesirable or bland for Masterminds. The only power I'm likely going to want is the charged armor for my bot mastermind, mainly for the sparking malfunction effect.
As I don't have enough experience with other AT's to comment I will refrain from doing so. As well, I will refrain from further comment until I've tested.
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Quote:
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Hey, here's a novel idea! If you don't like the powers/don't want to be an Arachnos flunky, don't do the missions! Just sayin'.
I've got a better idea! How about we get powers without being flunky the way the heroes do! Just sayin'.
How would you get the powers? Who would train you in these new ways? They're villains, they wont do soemthing for nothing.
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..the same way heroes do... by having 40 levels of prior experience. Heck, by your logic, how do you get any powers other than the two you start out with?
The problem is, they wanted to make picking a patron a majo thing, but they didn't want any 1 to be more powerful. Thus, they lock you into one patron, and the powers are nearly identical.
On my scrapper, I have 3 very different flavors of APP, 4 with my defender (5?), and I can change them with each respec. How is this equitible?
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Op my man whats happenin?
Hope your well.
You found a more active SG after YKC died out I hope!
The answer is this my friend: it isnt equitable at all.
But I don't think we're gonna have a lot of say on whether it changes.
History has proven that this dev team will do whatever it deems "fun" reguardless of mass, logical, constructive reasoning as to why it's counter-intuitive to the needs and desires of the playerbase - a playerbase that pays all the bills.
To the rabid fanboys and dev-lawyers who are already poised at the reply button to try and deflect from this simple fact: Save your breath and keep telling yourself it doesnt matter that we drive this market - ill be over here, hanging out in reality.
I dunno the patron powers may rock - who knows.
We'll see when we get there.
But they sure are specific to the NPC's they embody.
NPC's who have very strong concepts and BG's.
Kinda like the playerbase's BG's and concepts.
Remember them? the "Destined" ones?
"Destined" ones who are basically going to be walking around advertising another persons concept - a developer's personal concept character with thier own signature powers and costume pieces.
Sure you can RP it out all you want - but who exactly are the stars of the show here?
Seems kinda self-centered to me.
Heh... I'm good. I just hope the PPPs look really really cool, 'cause the powers seem decent, but not as exciting as the hero APPs are.
I just wish they would have given us things with more versatility than attacks/immobilizes; a placate, status protection, etc. Something, anythign to divert attention AWAY from the man befind the curtain, y'know!
I'd also liek to see an ally-only buff so we can enhance our pets and teammates. Heck, a power to turn a pet into a tarantula or the like would be awesome: "Mr. Genin, you have failed me for the last time... take him for 'reeducation'"...
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I have to admit, I'm very dissapointed in the MM PPPs. Our pets get nothing? No new playmate? No new toys? They do all the work and take all the pain! This is a slap in the face to MMs. 
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My thought exactly, I want MORE pets! I'm glad we get new powers, but I really hoped for more pets to increase my bot/trap pet army!
This whole thing would all make a lot more sense, if each patron gave different types of powers, and no more of this archtype specific nonsense.
One patron pool could give crowd control powers. One pool for ranged damage attacks. One pool for buffs. One pool could give debuffs.
This makes a lot more sense to me. Let players decide what type of powers they need, by making each patron completely different.
I would just like to say for the record that the Patron Powers for Doms are SEVEARLY lacking all the way around. ALL the other ATs get something that they dont get in there primary or secondary or they get something that fleshes out existing powers.
Brutes and Stalkers get some ranged attacks AND a hold not to mention a snipe for stalkers. Masterminds and Corrupters get some AOEs and hold/immobilizes. The pets that some of the other ATs get are boss lvl pets. Two of the Dom Patrons offer an endurance drain that already exists in some Dominator sets. Doms do get a shield and ANOTHER pet that wont listen and agro everything in sight.
Doms are su-do support with there holds yet we dont get anything to go with that no heals, buffs, not even a hold/immobilize to help out our already gimped control and laughable damage. Before anyone says no one is forcing you to take a Patron I know that I dont HAVE to take a Patron. I would just like to see the Dom choices to be on par with all the other ATs.
.end rant.
I can't really see how 2 ranged attacks, an immobilize, and a pet help to plug up the holes in my Brute. I'd say I need something to increase fury generation and decrease downtime more (the main concerns for any Brute). Or, for something completely different, what about powers that use the Fury directly? Like a powerful attack that drains the Fury bar completely and stops Fury generation temporarily?
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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im worried!!! No stam recovery for brutes except that one that drains from a foe. Im a SS/DA. I need more stam. I hope this isnt offical or im in for a world of hurt. Lord help us!
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Can you think of anything outside of the buff sets (like Recovery Aura out of empathy, Accelerated Metabolism from Radiation) besides Quick Recovery from regen that doesn't require a hit on an enemy to recover endurence?
I can't. And usually they have a higher base accuracy anyway.
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It is called conserver power which tanks and scrappers have access to.
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Which isn't stamina recovery - small distinction, but it is there.
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Conserver power cuts the cost of all powers in half, so for brutes and stalkers which have toggles in WOULD increase recovery rate.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Okay, I may as well catalouge the uses of each type of power from the PPPs.
Brutes
Single-target ranged attack: Can hit runners, generates/is affected by Fury.
AoE immob.: Stops runners, allows you to kill one, then move to the next one while only getting hit by wimpy ranged attacks (unless they're Wyvern, or some other ranged specialist).
AoE ranged attack: Generates Fury and aggro, is affected by Fury (if you're moving quickly from one group to the next, you could potentially hit a group of enemies with an AoE blast at 100% Fury, think about that).
Pet: It's a pet, it's not like they're bad or anything, unless you count diverting the aggro.
Stalker
Single target blast: Crits when hidden. In PvP, you may be re-hidden by the time your foe finds where you fired from if he didn't notice the exact direction the attack came from.
Snipe: Same advantages as the blast, except a higher likelyhood of being able to re-hide before your foe finds you (getting behind cover after the snipe will help with that.
Hold: Good for helping you escape an angry Scrapper/Tanker/Brute/AI enemy.
Pet: Can divert the attention of PvE enemies, adds to damage output.
Dominators
Debuff/End Recovery/Water Spout: The debuff could be useful, the end. recov. should be quite nice, and Water Spout looks to be some decent additional crowd control.
Shield toggle: Helps you live longer.
AoE blast: Apply AoE hold, then use this to hit the affected foes.
Pet: Keeps aggro off you.
Corrupter
AoE immob./Power Sink/Soul Drain: The more end., the better, immobilizations allow for escapes, and Soul Drain means more damage, which is very good for a Corrupter.
Shield: Keeps you alive longer.
Hold: Stops a foe from attacking.
Pet: Keeps aggro off of you.
Mastermind
AoE attack: Adds damage to Masterminds that like to attack, other wise, it can be skipped, while still letting you take the other three.
Shield: Keeps you alive longer.
AoE immob.: Keeps foes away from you henchmen, if they prefer range, or away from you, if they don't.
Hold: Takes a foe out of the fight, can be stacked with holds you or your henchmen already have, so that even the Lost or Rikti can be chain-held (more realistically, the Rikti. There aren't any Lost at that level).
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
[URL="http://paragonunleashed.proboards.com/index.cgi"][IMG]http://gamefacelive.com/bre/joker.png[/IMG][/URL]
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Hey, here's a novel idea! If you don't like the powers/don't want to be an Arachnos flunky, don't do the missions! Just sayin'.
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I've got a better idea! How about we get powers without being flunky the way the heroes do! Just sayin'.
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How would you get the powers? Who would train you in these new ways? They're villains, they wont do soemthing for nothing.
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I can beat up the patrons and take their powers. Simple, really.
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You're L40, and you will beat up a L50 Elite Boss, plus their minions of which many will be L41-50?
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..the same way heroes do... by having 40 levels of prior experience. Heck, by your logic, how do you get any powers other than the two you start out with?
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You train with people. In COH, you train with other heroes. Villains are just less likely to give something for nothing 
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I can't really see how 2 ranged attacks, an immobilize, and a pet help to plug up the holes in my Brute. I'd say I need something to increase fury generation and decrease downtime more (the main concerns for any Brute). Or, for something completely different, what about powers that use the Fury directly? Like a powerful attack that drains the Fury bar completely and stops Fury generation temporarily?
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For /any/ brute? My /EA brute doesn't know what downtime /is/.
I like the power options being given, since.. well.. they're just that. Options. Noone's forced to take them, as far as I know, so if they won't help you out and some of the other power pools will, you can just do that instead. I know scads of heroes who've skipped on EPPs for similar reasons. I'll be signing on with Sirocco, personally - I like the character, he meshes with my concept, and the idea of my brute having ANOTHER attack to steal end from his foes makes me giggle in schoolgirlish delight.
That said, an uber-fury-draining attack would be fun. Possibly too much fun.
i know you cant respec patrol power away but can i respec a paticular power in PPP, lets say i didnt like gloom and i want to pick soul tentacles instead will i be able to do it in a respec?
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i know you cant respec patrol power away but can i respec a paticular power in PPP, lets say i didnt like gloom and i want to pick soul tentacles instead will i be able to do it in a respec?
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Yes
I think what's driving me crazy about these powersets is that they look rather lackluster and are conceptually very specific. Now, the first part I could be wrong about, and am completely willing to allow that yes, they should be tested before I make a definite statement on that. The permanence also doesn't bother me particularly (once I settle on an APP, I don't really switch around, myself). The repetitiveness in them I can understand; it preemptively shut off the screams about inability to respec. But, as others have noted, it takes away from the versatility available heroside - the ability to choose, say, for more/ranged control (Tanker - Arctic Mastery), more stamina conservation (Tanker - Body Mastery?), or more damage (Tanker - Pyre Mastery). And above all else, Jeezum Christ, the concept alone. There's four very NPC-specific powersets to choose from. If you have an idea behind your character, just how many of these powers are going to fit?
No, I don't think this is going to change. But I suppose if I were to make a suggestion, it's to offer up modified versions of the hero APPs later as well as the locked PPPs. Why's that? Because it would let people be versatile and/or actually build characters with upper-level powers that fit their concept, while sacrificing potentially very good or better powers (the PPPs) and content. I mean, after all, it's all well and good to be more story-driven; but if the upper levels are all about how you will be an Arachnos Flunky, period, why'd we get Operative Burke (unafilliated) in the lower levels? Why not a new mission arc with more Arachnos people? It makes sense to offer some unaffiliated powers.
If everyone suddenly jumps ship and takes the villain APPs and skips the PPPs? That'd probably be a really good indicator that the latter weren't the best idea Cryptic came up with. But if what I suspect would happen does happen, and the numbers are more split, it'd probably pave the way to introducing PPPs heroside to make things more equitable. Especially since they're putting in a high-level zone where people will be using those powers.
- Laurentide
Three out of four sets are magic in origin? What the- . . . !?
Shouldn't Mako's powers be Mutant in origin? The vomit is cool, and the armours description can be rephrased . . . but Spirit Sharks?! It boggles my mind.
And what about the natural origin? I'd like to keep some of my characters true to their concept. I suppose I can just skip a Patron all together, but I fear that will severely hinder my characters' abilities to engage in Player versus Player combat, something I was hoping to get into.
I guess those rumours about a 5th, nonpartizan/non-Arachnos Patron were just that: rumours. Thats a real pity. Ive always felt the greatest strength of the City of games were the players ability to create virtually ANY original hero or villain their imagination could come up with. These new powers dont seem to affirm my belief.
Looks like I'll be taking a lot more pool powers if I ever make it to the 40 - 50 range.
I thank you, Devs, for the effort and the wonderful game. I'm just opposed to the thematic limitations of these Patron Powers.
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Shouldn't Mako's powers be Mutant in origin? The vomit is cool, and the armours description can be rephrased . . . but Spirit Sharks?! It boggles my mind.
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Mako is a Coralax though.... (or a Hybrid, or whatever) they seem pretty magic-ish (remember the Calystix arc?)
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And what about the natural origin? I'd like to keep some of my characters true to their concept. I suppose I can just skip a Patron all together, but I fear that will severely hinder my characters' abilities to engage in Player versus Player combat, something I was hoping to get into.
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Uhm, Black Scorpion's Mace? It's generic enough to work for anyone.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Mako is a Coralax though.... (or a Hybrid, or whatever) they seem pretty magic-ish (remember the Calystix arc?)
Mako is a mutant, not a Coralax.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Three out of four sets are magic in origin? What the- . . . !?
Shouldn't Mako's powers be Mutant in origin? The vomit is cool, and the armours description can be rephrased . . . but Spirit Sharks?! It boggles my mind.
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Agreed, though technically, I think that Ghost Widow roughly takes the "natural" slot among the signature villains (she's a ghost using inherent ghostly abilities, rather than channeling magical forces). Lots of fuzziness there.
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And what about the natural origin? I'd like to keep some of my characters true to their concept. I suppose I can just skip a Patron all together, but I fear that will severely hinder my characters' abilities to engage in Player versus Player combat, something I was hoping to get into.
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Depends on what you're running. To be honest, I'm in the opposite situation from most people - I was hoping the PPPs would be shiny but not terribly useful for me, so I could get one or two powers, and run leadership or stealth stuff.
Instead, my corruptor - with his demonic costume but cybernetic background - gets the Black Scorp set, which is all kinds of good for him, complete with the mace's appearance. That said, I'm pretty sure the only "important" power for him will be the AoE immobilize/slow. Everything else is candy, sure, but that's the one that contributes something significantly better than a generic pool.
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I guess those rumours about a 5th, nonpartizan/non-Arachnos Patron were just that: rumours. Thats a real pity. Ive always felt the greatest strength of the City of games were the players ability to create virtually ANY original hero or villain their imagination could come up with. These new powers dont seem to affirm my belief.
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I don't think it was a rumor, just that it was problematic in implementation. Burke is a low-level merc functionary - he's another option low-level because he's low-level, and not a direct threat to Arachnos. Add forty levels to his people, and that's no longer true. The problem becomes finding another patron who's logically of the same power level as the Arachnos villains, is willing to hire across ATs and origins, and won't get his allies capped on sight just for association.
The problem isn't that these villains don't exist, or that they don't have powers that they can swing for them. It's that they've already got backstory that's just as off-putting as Arachnos' for the RPers (Requiem, Duray, Vahzilok), or has serious issues with working with others (Carnies, the DE, the CoT, the Knives of Artemis and Malta).
I don't think it's that Cryptic's intending to keep only these four, or that they don't want to add in more for non-Arachnos people. I think it's just that they didn't feel confident in such an option right now.
Of course, if this were the case, it's just as sticky a situation, since people couldn't get out of their PPPs when something "better" came along.
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Looks like I'll be taking a lot more pool powers if I ever make it to the 40 - 50 range.
I thank you, Devs, for the effort and the wonderful game. I'm just opposed to the thematic limitations of these Patron Powers.
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Agreed. Speaking as someone who's by and large ecstatic with the options available to his characters (to the point of annoying other members of his VG with his giddiness), I've noticed a few problems...
1. Anti-mez stuff should've been available, IMO, to corruptors, MMs, and especially dominators. There's something intrinsically silly about a dominator having to worry more about a scrapper's mezzing ability than the reverse.
2. Brutes should be hitting stuff with their maces.
3. Mako's pool is thematically very, very narrow. Unless Coralax come along in I8 and have access to his abilities, I don't know that he's going to be used as often as the others for this very reason. This is admittedly a criticism without suggestion - I don't know what else could be done with him.
4. Despite what I said above, there's a known NPC who has anti-Arachnos plans while being tolerated by them, works well(ish) with others regardless of origin or AT, has oodles of plot threads to work with, and has the ability to hook people up with an array of powers: Dr. Aeon. Similarly, while I won't pretend that just porting over the APPs wholecloth will work for villains, we do know of someone who trains element-wielding villains in advanced uses of their powers: the Order of Four Winds, who trained Scirocco Ice Mystral. I hardly expect these suggestions to be implemented on the spot, but both, IMO, fit the bills people are asking for: Arachnos alternatives, and elemental powers. Of course, that's what the suggestion forum is for.
Mako is most definitely a mutant. His "girlfriend" Barracuda is the Coralax.
Black Scorpion is the Tech Origin, through and through. I realize the mace is "on loan" in a sense, but it still clashes with many of my natural characters, especially my highest level Mastermind.
Options for Mako would be less ghosts, more actual sharks. Or mutant piles of teeth. Or Spines like from the Scrapper/Stalker sets. Or like the Mutagen from level 1 - 10.
Like I said, I liked the vomit attack and I think that'd be really cool for some Mutant and Science origin villains.
And even WITH the fact that Mako is playing with the Leviathan, where are these Spirit Sharks coming from? Shouldn't those who choose him as a Patron be throwing explosive Red Coral Shards or some sort of Coralex urchins?
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Is it just me, or do these patron powers really seem to suck? I mean, compared to the hero powers, these things are worthless.
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You know I rember people anouncing the hero ancilery powers useless and that is why they had to change their name from epic pool powers... All the complaining but now they are the uber powers that these villian powers can not hope to match up too.